Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Yacobo]

How are people feeling about the "Smash always ends on a low note" opinion? I've never subscribed to that in the first place, so I'm not expecting a huge disappointment next week. But I'm curious about other's thoughts. Are you going into it anticipating a wet noodle reveal?

It's subjective but it's hard to argue that the latest characters revealed aren't usually the most mind blowing or exciting for most people.
Brawl: Olimar (compared to Snake or sonic)
Base Smash 4: Shulk (compared to Megaman)
Smash 4 DLC: Bayonetta/Corrin compared to Cloud and Ryu
Base Ultimate: Inceniroar compared to Ridley and K. Rool
Pass 1: Byleth compared to Banjo
Pass 2: the last character compared to Steve and Sephiroth

 

[Guynamednelson]

Not to mention that 95% of sword moves can be described as "slash in this direction" with 4% being a stab.

I guess a ton of brawlers have unoriginal movesets because they do a one-two jab.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Inkling and Banjo are low key?

If people are gonna say that smooth, sexy jazz and our first wrestler are bad then yeah I'm gonna say that the franchises that didn't include catchy songs, fun stages or fun characters are low key

 

[Slime Master]

How are people feeling about the "Smash always ends on a low note" opinion? I've never subscribed to that in the first place, so I'm not expecting a huge disappointment next week. But I'm curious about other's thoughts. Are you going into it anticipating a wet noodle reveal?

I think this opinion comes from people (correctly) realizing that it makes sense from a marketing perspective to put your game/pass sellers out early, then not realizing the pendulum doesn't have to swing too far the other way afterwards. In other words Bayo wasn't necessarily a "low note" but there's a reason Cloud came first. But regardless, if we get a double reveal at E3, we'll be ending on an event with a lot of eyes, so they probably wouldn't want it to be too "disappointing."

I think something in-between i.e. "Terry-level" has the most routes to being in, but I have so few expectations at this point that I can't really judge what's likely.

 

[Yacobo]

I guess a ton of brawlers have unoriginal movesets because they do a one-two jab.

Are all the jabs punches?

 

[Wunderwaft]

How are people feeling about the "Smash always ends on a low note" opinion? I've never subscribed to that in the first place, so I'm not expecting a huge disappointment next week. But I'm curious about other's thoughts. Are you going into it anticipating a wet noodle reveal?

While the characters we'll get won't be as big as Steve and Sephiroth in terms of shock value, I feel like being all gloom and doom is a bit too pessimistic. I bet we'll get one low-key minor character and one giga-ton character reveal that'll send waves. Which one of these two will be revealed first or last is up for debate, but I disagree with the stigma that the final two will be boring reveals.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

How would a Sol Badguy trailer play out?

Maybe a sequel to the Kencineroar trailer, but it starts with Incineroar fighting and getting beat up by Terry, so Sol beats up Terry.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I guess a ton of brawlers have unoriginal movesets because they do a one-two jab.

Not to mention the bicycle kick Up Air and Up Smash.

 

[DuskFleur]

I’m glad that Terry got well received after his release, because before he was revealed due to the copyright leak, I saw a lot of people claiming that he was “too irrelevant” and whatever nonsense. Honestly, I agree that his is one of the best fighter packs when looked at individually. 50 banger songs, a “traditional” fighting game esque stage with a unique wall breaking mechanic and tons of character cameos, and Terry himself is super fun to play as and has this…charisma and charm to him, I guess you could say. I love every character in Smash, but Terry is one of my favs to play as even if he isn’t my main. Landing a Power Geyser or Buster Wolf gives quite the high.

 

[Yacobo]

Not to mention the bicycle kick Up Air and Up Smash.

Maybe in terms of quantity there's redundancy but if we go by percentages sword moves have far more homogeneity.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If people are gonna say that smooth, sexy jazz and our first wrestler are bad then yeah I'm gonna say that the franchises that didn't include catchy songs, fun stages or fun characters are low key

“Ink Me Up and the main Banjo-Kazooie theme aren’t catchy”

Yeah, no way.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Are all the jabs punches?

Most of these dudes have the exact same kind of punchbas a jab so yeah you're right, we do have too many punchies

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Yoshimitsu would be cool.

One character, two games repped simultaneously.
Tekken AND Soulcalibur

 

[Technomage]

How are people feeling about the "Smash always ends on a low note" opinion? I've never subscribed to that in the first place, so I'm not expecting a huge disappointment next week. But I'm curious about other's thoughts. Are you going into it anticipating a wet noodle reveal?

While I accept that possibility as likely, I am hopeful that they at least refrain from ending on too low a note (for example, if it's a 1st-party, I would hope they pick someone not as boring as another starter Pokemon is a row).

 

[Schnee117]

A jab is literally a type of punch lmfao

 

[Yacobo]

Most of these dudes have the exact same kind of punchbas a jab so yeah you're right, we do have too many punchies

Seeing some palm strikes, swipes, kicks, and whatever the hell Rob does in there.

 

[volbound1700]

Regarding Smash ending on disappointment, I definitely see the trend but it is a matter of tastes.

For Ultimate, the November direct was a letdown because many people had bought into the Grinch Leak which had a very popular (and unrealistically large) final roster.

However, to me the major disappointment in Ultimate was the Single Player. World of Light just isn't SSE or even Melee's Adventure Mode. I know some people like it but it came off repetitive and boring to me. There were some bright spots (I really loved the Street Fighter part when you flew around the world fighting the different fighters). What Sakurai seems to miss about Single Player is that it seems like the fanbase want a Single Player Mode similar to Melee's Adventure that calls us back to the various franchises and has levels themed around them.

An epic Adventure mode that pits the heroes vs. villians with an enemy boss class that included Bowser, Wario, Ganondorf, Marx, Ridley, King K Rool, Dr. Robotnik, Mewtwo, Dr. Wiley, Sephiroth, Dracula, etc. would be amazing.

I also had some other issues with November direct that were addresses only 3-4 months later (adding stage editor and some popular Mii Costumes that I wanted back: Tails and Knuckles).

 

[SNEKeater]

How would a Sol Badguy trailer play out?

Maybe a sequel to the Kencineroar trailer, but it starts with Incineroar fighting and getting beat up by Terry, so Sol beats up Terry.

I actually don't have any big ideas for a trailer reveal for Sol tbh.

Going with the SNK/ARMS route would be an option, but also kinda boring at this point, and I feel they could come up with a different and more unique idea for Sol. The easy option would be a trailer that involves the FGC characters already in Smash. Maybe just Terry, because he's the newest one, and then Sol appears and kicks their ass.

Thematically, he would be fitting for a follow up trailer to the Ken & Incineroar one, that's for sure, because of the fire and all, but I would rather for Sol to get his "own" thing instead of being a follow up for an almost 3 years old trailer.

Though I'm pretty sure his video reveal wouldn't be CGI like the ones we got for Hero, Banjo or Sephiroth. A stylized trailer, trying to replicate Guilty Gear's visuals at some degree, would be very cool.

 

[Schnee117]

There's 80+ fighters, there's gonna be a bunch of similar/reused moves across the board. This complaint is dumb.

 

[3BitSaurus]

So-so. There's precedence for a more low-key character - Not necessarily a bad one, just not as big compared to the others we got - But there's also precedence for a big reveal being saved for big events like E3. I think it could go either way.

I think people sometimes conflate "smaller pick to end the game" with "bad pick". Like, I personally find Bayonetta to be a lot more hype than Ryu, but objectively speaking she was the smallest guest in Smash 4 and it makes a lot of sense that Cloud would come before her.

That said, smallest =//= unhype. Someone like Reimu, Adol or even a first party like Isaac or Ayumi could be pretty fun depending on how they play and the content they come with.

I think I'm trying to make myself ready for whatever comes. and are some of my favorite newcomers from their respective games, but most of the time the last picks are either those I'm personally neutral about (, , , ) or outright dislike (), so I'm going in with low expectations for CP11. Assuming we even get a double reveal, that is.

 

[Yacobo]

A jab is literally a type of punch lmfao

Jab is whats used to define the a press move.

 

[osby]

Seeing some palm strikes, swipes, kicks, and whatever the hell Rob does in there.

This fandom sees knives, energy blades, saw blades, long eastern swords, claymores, and whatever the hell Levin sword is, and treats them like the exact same weapon so I don't see a problem.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I never subscribed to the belief that "it always ends on a low note". I mean people are entitled to their opinions but I'd say there were some good characters revealed at the tail end of each wave. Smash 4 base had Bowser Jr. and Duck Hunt, two of my personal favorites from that game, Smash 4 DLC had Bayonetta who I thought was a cool third party, Ultimate base had Incineroar whose really fun, and Fighters Pass 1 had Byleth, whose also really fun for me. I think I'll like whoever they cap Fighters Pass 2 with.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Not related to Smash, but:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

I'm not a better, but I feel like IF this is true, it would be because Nintendo would've wanted the skin to be exclusive to Nintendo Switch Fortnite players, thereby disagreeing with Epic Games's potential intentions.
In other words, potential overprotection.

 

[volbound1700]

I think people sometimes conflate "smaller pick to end the game" with "bad pick". Like, I personally find Bayonetta to be a lot more hype than Ryu, but objectively speaking she was the smallest guest in Smash 4 and it makes a lot of sense that Cloud would come before her.

That said, smallest =//= unhype. Someone like Reimu, Adol or even a first party like Isaac or Ayumi could be pretty fun depending on how they play and the content they come with.

I think I'm trying to make myself ready for whatever comes. and are some of my favorite newcomers from their respective games, but most of the time the last picks are either those I'm personally neutral about (, , , ) or outright dislike (), so I'm going in with low expectations for CP11. Assuming weeven get a double reveal, that is.

While I generally agree with your points, it is custom (at least in the West) to try to end something with a bang. Nintendo doesn't seem to understand that very well with Smash. Who knows though, they probably have read the comments about it in the past.

 

[Idon]

Okay but can we talk about how every person's shield animation is them blocking their face with their arms?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

This fandom sees knives, energy blades, saw blades, long eastern swords, claymores, and whatever the hell Levin sword is, and treats them like the exact same weapon so I don't see a problem.

It‘s not like the type of blade matters on a core mechanical level. They’re mostly translated to Smash with different positions on the range-power-speed spectrum but the difference between Corrin’s Yato and Marth’s Falchion is visual 99% of the time.

 

[Shroob]

While I generally agree with your points, it is custom (at least in the West) to try to end something with a bang. Nintendo doesn't seem to understand that very well with Smash. Who knows though, they probably have read the comments about it in the past.

To play devil's advocate though, why would they bother?


The majority of DLC sales come at the beginning, this is basically true for any game, saving something huge for the end doesn't make a whole lot of financial sense.


Granted, this is just playing devil's advocate. I think Ultimate will end on something good personally.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Jab is whats used to define the a press move.

And the Smash term is derived from how many of the fighters do a jab if you press the A button without holding a direction.

 

[Yacobo]

There's 80+ fighters, there's gonna be a bunch of similar/reused moves across the board. This complaint is dumb.

And swordies have far more homogeneity than any other type of character.

This fandom sees knives, energy blades, saw blades, long eastern swords, claymores, and whatever the hell Levin sword is, and treats them like the exact same weapon so I don't see a problem.

Besides the knives(i dont consider joker a swordie btw) those are just different aesthetics for the most part.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I see plenty of people complain about sword users, but I also see people counter that by saying there are a lot of hand-to-hand characters. With that in mind, I'm going to count the number of both kinds of characters to see whether or not the complaints are unfounded.

Swordfighters:
Mythra
Hand-to-Hand Fighters:


Well, I guess the "too many swordies" complaint doesn't really work, huh? We could use more of other types of fighting styles (such as shooters).

Note: I didn't include characters like Yoshi or PT's Pokemon because their fighting styles are closer to animal combat than hand-to-hand. On the other hand, I included the Kongs because their fighting styles are pretty close to h2h and only borderline animal combat. I also added Kirby because most of his attacks are martial arts/brawling.

The problem I find with Swordfighters is that most of them use the same slash and stab kind of attacks and they barely go past that. Not only that but most them are pretty serious characters who use serious kinds of attacks like magic and the sorts.

With hand to hand fighters, you never know what they'll do and they're not always reduced to punching and kicking. Some even use their bodies to attack, their arms grow to show the ferocity of the attack, They'll headbutt, some even grapple you. There's just no telling how they might fight and that's the exciting part about these fighters.

Anyway there is something here I did below. I don't know why I did it but it's there anyway. Probably trying to prove how varied hand to hand fighters are or something.

Swordfighters
Humanoid: mythra
Cartoony humanoids:
Non humanoid:

Hand-to-Hand Fighters
Humanoid:
Catoony humanoids:
Non humanoid:

 

[Pillow]

To play devil's advocate though, why would they bother?


The majority of DLC sales come at the beginning, this is basically true for any game, saving something huge for the end doesn't make a whole lot of financial sense.


Granted, this is just playing devil's advocate. I think Ultimate will end on something good personally.

It’s just good business to make fans happy. What that entails is up to debate, but it would feel weird if a game as celebrated as Ultimate were to end on a sour note.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

If people are gonna say that smooth, sexy jazz and our first wrestler are bad then yeah I'm gonna say that the franchises that didn't include catchy songs, fun stages or fun characters are low key

Splatoon and Banjo-Kazooie

didn't include catchy songs, fun stages or fun characters

What?

 

[Shroob]

It’s just good business to make fans happy. What that entails is up to debate, but it would feel weird if a game as celebrated as Ultimate were to end on a sour note.

And yet the final 2 fighters in the base game were Kencineroar, and the final character in FP1 was Byleth, and the first character in FP2 was Min.


You've already bought into the DLC, what happens next is up in the air.

 

[Yacobo]

Okay but can we talk about how every person's shield animation is them blocking their face with their arms?

Hypothetically if most of the cast had a reasonably different shielding animation except for the pokemon characters it'd be fine to say the Pokemon characters have the worst variety in terms of shielding animation.

 

[volbound1700]

To play devil's advocate though, why would they bother?


The majority of DLC sales come at the beginning, this is basically true for any game, saving something huge for the end doesn't make a whole lot of financial sense.


Granted, this is just playing devil's advocate. I think Ultimate will end on something good personally.

It is a good SIGN that it is ending on E3. Issue is that there are so many tastes that the chances of a let down, even with a big or decent character being announced, is high.

Ultimate's base game letdown was mostly due to Grinch Leak and the fact that everyone saw Ken and Incineroar coming. Piranha Plant (a character no one asked for) didn't help either although the DLC announcement did.

I was more let down with the Single Player than the characters being announced.

I thought Brawl ended on a high note.

In Smash 4, a lot of people were pulling for Wolf's returned and got Corrin instead. There was also a push for Rayman due to the fake leak and we got Bayonetta. Neither were bad choices but they were not exciting choices either, especially when considering the characters that people were clamoring for.

As stated, the finish strong is mostly a Western (maybe even just USA thing). Nintendo sold Ultimate to me and a lot of people with the Everyone is Back and the August trailer. They are the two most exciting Smash presentations ever.

 

[NotGenerico]

How would a Sol Badguy trailer play out?

Maybe a sequel to the Kencineroar trailer, but it starts with Incineroar fighting and getting beat up by Terry, so Sol beats up Terry.

I like the idea of using the boxing ring again, but I'd prefer if it was Ryu or Ken instead of Incineroar fighting Terry. Have Ryu and Terry fight for a bit until the camera focuses on the giant screen. Lights go out, the screen cracks and this pops up:

Sol breaks out of the giant screen and starts fighting both Terry and Ryu while Heavy Day plays, before transitioning into the gameplay montage.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

This fandom sees knives, energy blades, saw blades, long eastern swords, claymores, and whatever the hell Levin sword is, and treats them like the exact same weapon so I don't see a problem.

Joker is just Tuxedo Marth. In fact, just look at how many unoriginal characters there are in this game:

• Mario
• Donkey Kong
• Link
• Samus
• Edgy Samus
• Yoshi
• Kirby
• Fox
• Pikachu
• Green Mario
• Ness
• Captain Falcon
• Girl Kirby
• Peach
• Orange Peach
• Bowser
• Alaskan Nesses
• Ninja Elf Peach
• Elf Peach
• Dr. Mario
• Pikachu Jr.
• Bird Fox
• Marth
• Girl Marth
• Mini - Link
• Captain Falcondorf
• Mewtwo
• Fire Marth
• Dad Marth
• Mr. Game & Watch
• Zorro Kirby
• Angel Marth
• Edgy Angel Marth
• Nude Samus
• Yellow Mario
• Snake
• Scruffy Marth
• Teen Ness (featuring Tiny Blue Bowser, Tiny Frog Bowser and Dragon Bowser)
• Tiny Donkey Kong
• Blonde Ness
• Sonic
• Penguin Bowser
• Alien Mario
• Blue Mewtwo
• ROB
• Mini - Link 2.0
• Edgy Fox
• Demonic Ness
• Mega Man
• Nude Mannequin Samus
• Blue Peach
• Little Mac
• Frog Mewtwo
• Mii Fighters
• Greek Elf Peach
• Pac-Man
• Magic Marth
• British
• Bowser Jr.
• Duck Hunt Duo
• Karate Mac
• Blond Karate Mac
• Blonde Scruffy Marth
• Dragon Marth
• Nude Goth Samus
• Squid Ness
• Skinny Dragon Bowser
• Simon Belmont
• Karate Mac Belmont
• Krok Bowser
• Dog Ness
• Tiger Bowser
• Piranha Plant
• Tuxedo Marth
• Dragon Ball Marth
• Duck Hunt Duo 2.0
• Blonde Trucker Karate Mac
• Professor Marth
• Kung Fu Peach
• Steve
• Edgy Katana Marth
• Girl Fire Marth
• Girl Light Marth

 

[SharkLord]

The problem I find with Swordfighters is that most of them use the same slash and stab kind of attacks and they barely go past that. Not only that but most them are pretty serious characters who use serious kinds of attacks like magic and the sorts.

With hand to hand fighters, you never know what they'll do and they're not always reduced to punching and kicking. Some even use their bodies to attack, their arms grow to show the ferocity of the attack, They'll headbutt, some even grapple you. There's just no telling how they might fight and that's the exciting part about these fighters.

Anyway there is something here I did below. I don't know why I did it but it's there anyway. Probably trying to prove how varied hand to hand fighters are or something.

Swordfighters
Humanoid: mythra
Cartoony humanoids:
Non humanoid:

Hand-to-Hand Fighters
Humanoid:
Catoony humanoids:
Non humanoid:

I find it kinda funny how the "Cartoony Humanoids" are almost entirely Mario characters except for the Mii Brawler, and Miis have shown up in Mario anyways. Too much Mario SMH, where's your diversity now?

 

[Shroob]

It is a good SIGN that it is ending on E3.

Thing is, it could very well not.


Yes, even I think that a double reveal is likely, but they don't have to, especially with how loaded the presentation will be.


We'd all like them to drop both characters and end this dog and pony show once and for all, but to bank on a double reveal 100% happening is shortsighted.