Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[AreJay25]

To quell the conflict between platformer and RPG fans, the next character will be Computer Virus from Kirby Super Star.

An RPG battle within a platformer. This will surely bring people together.

 

[SharkLord]

Regardless of what we believe regarding likelihood and who should or should not be predicted, I think we can all agree we should build a giant mecha for the sole purpose of elbow-dropping Smash Twitter into oblivion from orbit

 

[Captain Fun]

But Captain, think of the poor Ice Climber fans who want their favourite franchise to get Polar Bear as a playable character only for characters who've never been on Nintendo like Terry and these 'Dragon Quest' characters!

Judgement has already been passed.

 

[Louie G.]

I don't even think most people genuinely care about the platformer label as much as they do making it seem like their character Crash has been neglected.

I don't mean to sound finger-pointy or whatever nor am I generalizing all the fans of the character, but this discourse is 100% about Crash. I'm sure some of these people also would like Rayman or a new Sonic character, but I've noticed a trend in all those kind of posts where Crash is treated as this golden goose of speculation fighting against the mold somehow.

I hate to admit it but it's kind of soured me on him a lot over time. I was never a huge Crash fan to begin with but it's very draining to hear him constantly used this way and for some of his fans to fling **** one way and not be prepared to get it back. Not looking forward to the fallout if Crash doesn't make it.

 

[PeridotGX]

What we really need is a cartoony animal JRPG character and an anime platformer guy. That is the key to solving all our problems.

Toriel and Alucard win

Smash Twitter being...... Smash Twitter as usual.

In the second meme... that's not how it works. It's not the JRPG fans that are choosing the DLC, it's Sakurai and Nintendo. It's not the JRPG fan's "fault".

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't mean to sound finger-pointy or whatever nor am I generalizing all the fans of the character, but this discourse is 100% about Crash. I'm sure some of these people also would like Rayman or a new Sonic character, but I've noticed a trend in all those kind of posts where Crash is treated as this golden goose of speculation fighting against the mold somehow.

I hate to admit it but it's kind of soured me on him a lot over time. I was never a huge Crash fan to begin with but it's very draining to hear him constantly used this way and for some of his fans to fling **** one way and not be prepared to get it back. Not looking forward to the fallout if Crash doesn't make it.

It's not just Crash fans, it's the specific kind of person who watches Nintendo Directs and screams about how a filthy degenerate JRPG was given more focus than the pure platformer games shown off, like, play something other than platformers for once in your lives lmao

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I don't mean to sound finger-pointy or whatever nor am I generalizing all the fans of the character, but this discourse is 100% about Crash. I'm sure some of these people also would like Rayman or a new Sonic character, but I've noticed a trend in all those kind of posts where Crash is treated as this golden goose of speculation fighting against the mold somehow.

I hate to admit it but it's kind of soured me on him a lot over time. I was never a huge Crash fan to begin with but it's very draining to hear him constantly used this way and for some of his fans to fling **** one way and not be prepared to get it back. Not looking forward to the fallout if Crash doesn't make it.

Plot twist, we actually get an orange platformer character at E3 but it ends up being a certain spear wielder from Kirby.

 

[Gengar84]

You know who we really need? Professor Layton, lets talk about Professor Layton

Layton is cool but I never really got into that series, mostly because I barely ever played handhelds other than Pokémon. I do really miss Level 5’s older games like Dark Cloud and Rogue Galaxy. I was a huge fan of those games and it’s sad that they seem to have been largely forgotten.

Asfar as JRPGs vs Platformers go, I love several games from both genres and I agree that all the fighting between the fanbases is stupid. While it would be nice to have a little more variety, I don’t really care that much what genre the character is from as much as who the character is.

 

[Louie G.]

It's not just Crash fans, it's the specific kind of person who watches Nintendo Directs and screams about how a filthy degenerate JRPG was given more focus than the pure platformer games shown off, like, play something other than platformers for once in your lives lmao

Yeah at large there's more to it, but when you really get down to it as far as Smash goes there aren't really even that many viable platforming characters people could be alluding to. Crash, Rayman and Tails / Eggman really. The latter two pop up now and again but a lot of those obnoxious platformer vs JRPG smash tweets continue to use Crash as the figurehead.

I feel bad for the Crash fans who get caught in that crossfire because stuff like that invites even further conflict around the character.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What do you guys think is the most likely option?

1. 3rd party, 1st party
2. Both 3rd parties
3. Both 1st parties

Numba 2.

 

[3BitSaurus]

What do you guys think is the most likely option?

1. 3rd party, 1st party
2. Both 3rd parties
3. Both 1st parties

Leaning towards the 1st option.

1st option. Historically, the final reveals have either been first parties or the smallest guest of a cycle (I love Bayo and was hyped for her, but she's undeniably a step below the other Sm4sh guests in terms of series size/fan demand).

Imagine if we got Crash, Rayman, and Spyro but not Banjo. Do you think Banjo detractors would be telling Banjo fans “uh, excuse me, we have too many platformer characters”?

Honestly? Yes.

That or "too many 90s characters", which is basically the same thing and was said on this thread at least a few times before BK's reveal.

See, no matter which side of the fandom you go to, there's always someone willing to take this **** way too seriously. So really, this whole thing with picking sides is meaningless at the end of the day.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Honestly if Crash doesn't get in after so many people said he'd be in every single time there was a new Smash reveal, I'd be like this.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If Crash doesn't get into this game. Don't be surprised that'll he will make top ten list videos of "Smash characters who should have been in Ultimate" notably WatchMojo.

 

[Captain Fun]

Yeah at large there's more to it, but when you really get down to it as far as Smash goes there aren't really even that many viable platforming characters people could be alluding to. Crash, Rayman and Tails / Eggman really. The latter two pop up now and again but a lot of those obnoxious platformer vs JRPG smash tweets continue to use Crash as the figurehead.

Honestly, it’s probably in part because platformers died at a point. Crash and Spyro only had a recent revival, Rayman came back only to die again, Banjo is... well you know. There’s really not a lot going on for platformers at the moment, which is a shame.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly, it’s probably in part because platformers died at a point. Crash and Spyro only had a recent revival, Rayman came back only to die again, Banjo is... well you know. There’s really not a lot going on for platformers at the moment, which is a shame.

Ironically the cause of this is oversaturation. People seem to forget just how many platformers there were back in the day and how oversaturated the market was, but those very people will gladly cry foul at JRPGs and FPS games being the new big hit instead

 

[chocolatejr9]

Regardless of what we believe regarding likelihood and who should or should not be predicted, I think we can all agree we should build a giant mecha for the sole purpose of elbow-dropping Smash Twitter into oblivion from orbit

I was thinking we should petition to get Twitter shut down, but that works too.

 

[SharkLord]

Honestly, it’s probably in part because platformers died at a point. Crash and Spyro only had a recent revival, Rayman came back only to die again, Banjo is... well you know. There’s really not a lot going on for platformers at the moment, which is a shame.

I'd say they're still going fairly strong... But the main focus is with indies, like Shovel Knight, Shantae, and A Hat In Time. Generally, the Smash fanbase tends to be rather hesitant around indies, so even if they're giving us a solid supply of platformers it doesn't really get counted when trying to find candidates people consider viable.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

To change up the subject a bit, given we're close to Ultimate's end run, what are everyone's thoughts and opinion on the roster overall as a whole both veterans and newcomers?

 

[BlondeLombax]

Honestly if Crash doesn't get in after so many people said he'd be in every single time there was a new Smash reveal, I'd be like this.
View attachment 318028

I did share that meme of “FP2 if speculators were right” where every slot is Crash a few weeks back. It’s gonna be a bloodbath if he doesn’t make it in. Metaphorically speaking, of course.

To change up the subject a bit, given we're close to Ultimate's end run, what are everyone's thoughts and opinion on the roster overall as a whole both veterans and newcomers?

I love them all. That’s really all I can say.

 

[SNEKeater]

I don't want to be that guy, but the worst thing of this "drama" is that it mostly began with people criticizing or making fun of JRPG characters and it's fans.
This started some time ago and it seems that as of now things have escalated a lot. This internet war is just stupid, and some JRPG guys then started with the Scrimblo Brimblo/hoes mad jokes as an answer.

Characters aren't added to fill a quota. Is that really hard to understand? Sakurai and Nintendo don't think about the genre the character comes from when doing the selection. Each fighter gets in based on different reasons and merits.

And even if now there's insufferable people in both sides, in my personal experience on Twitter, YouTube or other forums, JRPG characters considerably get more hostility than any other genre. Now you see some cereal mascots jokes, but overall I'd say the unbalance is quite obvious.
I'm not saying the "platformer haters" are less worse because this stupid war is, well, stupid, but this would have never happened if the Smash community was more mature and less entitled from the beginning.
That's why I never liked the anime swordsman jokes when people started with that, because even if some were genuinely joking, some of them were clearly not joking and others started to feel offended. And now look where we are now.

That, combined by the fact that by default there's a lot of entitlement and childish behaviour in the community, regardless of being a platformer or JRPG guy, and that we're close to the end of Ultimate... I'm not looking forward to see the Twitter reactions from most fans once we know the last 2 characters, no matter who they are.

Yo, unrelated to the topic at hand, but a quote from Sakurai caught my interest, but I can't remember the source:

Hasn't Sakurai talked about how he likes to highlight developers in the Japanese game industry before? Especially ones not super well known outside of the country? I feel like this is something he's said before, but I wanted to fact check it.

Yeah I remember this. I think it was from one of his Famitsu columns.
That's why I'm kinda surprised we didn't get a new japanese company in Smash since SNK. Though I guess he wasn't just talking about playable characters.

 

[Idon]

This is how Shin Megami Tensei STILL wins.

Not as a JRPG...

but as a Platformer.

 

[SharkLord]

Yo, unrelated to the topic at hand, but a quote from Sakurai caught my interest, but I can't remember the source:

Hasn't Sakurai talked about how he likes to highlight developers in the Japanese game industry before? Especially ones not super well known outside of the country? I feel like this is something he's said before, but I wanted to fact check it.

Oh yeah, I've heard that before. Namely, brought up regarding Reimu, who's kinda infamous around here for her lopsided situation. We should probably find that interview soon, actually. Sounds like something important to fact-check.

 

[spicynun]

I love platformers and JRPGs, I don't see why people feel the need to align themselves with one or the other. I was super excited at Banjo and Hero simultaneously. They are just game genres at the end of the day.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Characters aren't added to fill a quota.

This part isn’t true.

Was only considered because an NES representative was wanted.

Got in because Sakurai wanted another Metroid character.

Got in because a new character from an upcoming game was desired.

 

[BlondeLombax]

I love platformers and JRPGs, I don't see why people feel the need to align themselves with one or the other. I was super excited at Banjo and Hero simultaneously. They are just game genres at the end of the day.

The crossover fanart was the best part of that dual-reveal. If we get another this year, can we have more of that, please?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It’s gonna be a bloodbath if he doesn’t make it in.

We survived discord. We can survive this.

 

[Opossum]

God I hate how much twitter dumbasses like that Monkey D. Lenny guy drag Crash's reputation through the mud. Straight up embarrassing.

Like congratulations, you entitled weasel, you made me loathe whenever one of my favorite characters comes up in discussion because you're an anti-jrpg woe-is-me conspiracy theorist.

 

[BlondeLombax]

We survived discord. We can survive this.

Yeah, see, we knew that there was gonna be more to come after Byleth, so it wasn‘t as bad in retrospect. This is the definitive end of the line for the Hype Train. It’s gonna turn into a full-on Smash fandom murder mystery.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This part isn’t true.

Was only considered because an NES representative was wanted.

Got in because Sakurai wanted another Metroid character.

Got in because a new character from an upcoming game was desired.

Also, ZSS was added cause he wanted another female.

That, and there's stuff like their moveset also played a role in how they were chosen. But yeah, a quota is sometimes done. But it's pretty rare nonetheless. Generally he looks more at the character than filling a quota. It's worth noting that IC's are the only one that isn't from an already active franchise too, so usually a quota is for existing franchises.

PP even comes close for a surprise pick, due to not being a hero in the story. But I say comes close, since surprise picks are their own category separate from retro picks.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Honestly if Crash doesn't get in after so many people said he'd be in every single time there was a new Smash reveal, I'd be like this.
View attachment 318028

Mom pick me up I'm scared.

 

[chocolatejr9]

We survived discord. We can survive this.

To be fair, Min Min has a tendancy to trend at least once a month with people complaining about her...

 

[Guynamednelson]

anime platformer guy

That's what Richter's for!

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

To change up the subject a bit, given we're close to Ultimate's end run, what are everyone's thoughts and opinion on the roster overall as a whole both veterans and newcomers?

Im ok with mostly every beside Banjo and Steve. Dot quite care for them. Minus them I like it but im still sad none if my most wanted are in

 

[ZenythSmash]

Imagine talking about characters when Box Theory was around.

Yeah....wasn't that theory entirely based around a rumor?
What Pokemon rumor should we be looking at? It's been a while we even had one.

 

[Captain Fun]

Ironically the cause of this is oversaturation. People seem to forget just how many platformers there were back in the day and how oversaturated the market was, but those very people will gladly cry foul at JRPGs and FPS games being the new big hit instead

I remember when Mega Man “died” and people blamed Capcom for killing the franchise, meanwhile it has been in decline because people were getting burned out of annualized releases and spin-offs. Turns out, it needed a hiatus.

I'd say they're still going fairly strong... But the main focus is with indies, like Shovel Knight, Shantae, and A Hat In Time. Generally, the Smash fanbase tends to be rather hesitant around indies, so even if they're giving us a solid supply of platformers it doesn't really get counted when trying to find candidates people consider viable.

The indie scene definitely does have some great platformers, probably because they don’t have to rely on major publishers to sign off on them. Larger companies don’t seem to be as interested in them though. Unless you’re Nintendo, it’s hard to sell a platformer to the mainstream crowd at full price.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

To be fair, Min Min has a tendancy to trend at least once a month with people complaining about her...

Remember when people complained about and how broken she was?

 

[SNEKeater]

This part isn’t true.

Was only considered because an NES representative was wanted.

Got in because Sakurai wanted another Metroid character.

Got in because a new character from an upcoming game was desired.

Okay, then let me rephrase it.

Characters aren't usually added to fill a quota, and when they do, so far it doesn't seem that the genre matters at all to Nintendo and Sakurai.

This whole discussion is just another excuse for some people to bash the characters they don't like without being called out.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah....wasn't that theory entirely based around a rumor?
What Pokemon rumor should we be looking at? It's been a while we even had one.

Vergeben had a major part of it but it was based around the boxart and it overlapped with the information provided by Vergeben

 

[Ivander]

Ironically the cause of this is oversaturation. People seem to forget just how many platformers there were back in the day and how oversaturated the market was, but those very people will gladly cry foul at JRPGs and FPS games being the new big hit instead

There's always a point where a genre will have a moment of oversaturation. Platformers have. Beat'em-Ups have. Fighting games have. RPGs have. Horror/Survival games have. FPS especially have. And recently Battle Royales and Souls-likes have. It's just the nature of the market.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I'd say they're still going fairly strong... But the main focus is with indies, like Shovel Knight, Shantae, and A Hat In Time. Generally, the Smash fanbase tends to be rather hesitant around indies, so even if they're giving us a solid supply of platformers it doesn't really get counted when trying to find candidates people consider viable.

Indies are specifically significant in that regard because that's where a lot of the more interesting experimentation and genre blends are happening and realistically should be the place where people wanting to see the category is capable of. Celeste and the Ori Duology have done more the for the 2D platformer in terms of theme exploration and artistic storytelling than almost any release in the last 10 years, Nintendo included. That's not even getting to stuff like YL & the Impossible Lair which are full blown divergent evolutions of the DKC esque kinetic platformer for those that like that sort of thing.