Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Technomage]

Ok hold up, big question that popped up in my mind just now:

If a playable character from Dark Souls comes, might we get content from Demon's Souls, too?

Dark Souls - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm not sure; its publisher varies depending on region, such as Namco only publishing it in Europe.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ok hold up, big question that popped up in my mind just now:

If a playable character from Dark Souls comes, might we get content from Demon's Souls, too?

Dark Souls - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Nope, Demon Souls and Bloodborne are owned by Sony

 

[venomthebest]

I don't care a whole lot about Waluigi as a character, he's not my first pick for another Mario rep. But that said... at this point, just- just put him in, for the love of god. If there's any character that "deserves" to be in Smash, it's him. Come on, just let him have this.

I agree with you especially since How I see this pass is Essentially the final touches on art piece of smash bros ultimate. At this point feel like the last 6 characters were mainly to fill in the gaps one way or another. final fantasy content buff which gave the franchise the representation it deserved. Arms would be in if not for bad timing and also Xenoblade chronicles. Minecraft is like the biggest game out there.
In a game thats been referred to as a celebration of gaming would be strange if a game where you can play as Mario, Luigi, Peach, Daisy, and Wario But not waluigi?!
Think of it this way, if your sculpting something and your almost done with your project, you should at this point have a pretty clear vision of what you want it to be. This is where you put the details and final touches and finish unfinalized parts whether it be you weren't quite sure how to go about it or just put it off until now.
Now in short what I'm tryin to explain is Sakurai cares about this franchise and I wont go too deep into it but Masahiro Sakurai and Satoru Iwata worked together and seemed to be good friends. And with Iwatas unfortunate passing, I think I remember hearing how smash ultimate is sakurai's way of honoring iwata. (here's a vid it explaining that a lot better than me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20wxJs-G1Qg) Basically sakurai takes this very seriously and certain things in the game that could've and should've been in the game beforehand are going to be added in the last pass for one reason or another.

Ya a lot of people don't like min min but imagine looking back at this game years from now and not seeing one of nintendo's newest ips playable in smash ultimate. That's how people were feeling about Final Fantasy content before sephiroth. Fun fact sakurai did want to include more final fantasy characters (including sephiroth) in smash wii u but of course that wasn't the game plan with how they were adding characters back then. And now we have Sephiroth.

Now with all the fan support that waluigi has gotten especially since ultimate came out, i think if there was one for character added cause of fan support (much like banjo and kazooie/krool/ridley) it would be waluigi.

Anyways, In short, I think this final pass is just the final touches via implementing previous ideas that couldn't work out before or now things are more possible now then the were two years ago, essentially tying up the biggest loose ends or putting the cherry on top



I think out loud so if this is a bit messy forgive me lol

Edit: took me a bit to type this all out so it may be way late to the convo

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Nope, Demon Souls and Bloodborne are owned by Sony

I'm not gonna talk about Sony again at this point anymore lol
seems A LOT of people think they'd be adamant enough to prohibit any of their stuff to go over to Smash.

Dark Souls content by itself would be fine imo.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I'm not gonna talk about Sony again at this point anymore lol
seems A LOT of people think they'd be adamant enough to prohibit any of their stuff to go over to Smash.

Dark Souls content by itself would be fine imo.

Good idea. I'm not actually a big fan of Sony. Not the games, mind you, but the company has made me... upset on more than one occasion.

 

[SharkLord]

I'm not gonna talk about Sony again at this point anymore lol
seems A LOT of people think they'd be adamant enough to prohibit any of their stuff to go over to Smash.

Dark Souls content by itself would be fine imo.

It's less that they'd actively try to hinder Nintendo and more that they haven't had much instances where they actively help them. The only instance thus far is one of the sports games, and when you take into account how they're console competitors, you could see why people would be hesitant about banking on a Nintendo/Sony collab. Yeah, there's Microsoft, but those guys are a lot more buddy-buddy than the average console maker.

 

[Sage of Ice]

Yeah to be honest, my opinion on Sonic's representation isn't really my own, since I remember a couple other people saying that Sonic is kinda lacking in content; maybe its content is only lacking in variety? For example, both of Sonic's stages are grassy intro levels (which we already have plenty of, not just in regards to Sonic content).

Also, would Sonic's rushed moveset count as "lacking?"

i've always thought Angel Island would make for a fun stage. the Master Emerald would go front and center, players could jump up and stand on it to get the high ground - but that wouldn't mean it was over! if someone were to attack the emerald enough to break it, the island would go hurtling down to the waters below, with low-gravity effects like when Tetra's Ship is in free-fall. eventually the pieces would restore, and (with a high-gravity effect) the island would rush back up to its place in the sky

and if it got a second playable character my vote would go to Knuckles, with Tails as an assist trophy and Eggman potentially becoming a boss. Shadow would be okay, i just worry that they'd squander his potential and make him a clone or echo of Sonic, rather than playing on his own individual strengths

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Honestly, if he didn't get Mii'd, Heihachi would've been SUCH a likely playable fighter candidate.

Feels bad, man

Jin's still possible, though.

SF x Tekken, ayo?

I prefer Jin Kazama since he has the devil gene and I think he'd be more interesting. Then again I don't think any Namco rep is likely.

Speaking of Battletoads, do you guys think they have any chance to make it in instead of Master Chief? They actually have history with Nintendo and I imagine they would be a lot cheaper to get the rights to. They’re my brother’s favorite video game characters and most wanted for Smash.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm not gonna talk about Sony again at this point anymore lol
seems A LOT of people think they'd be adamant enough to prohibit any of their stuff to go over to Smash.

Dark Souls content by itself would be fine imo.

Nah that's not my reason, I feel Sony's gonna get a character in Smash at one point, but Nintendo wouldn't want to get a character from company X and then include content from company Y, if we didn't get CvS music then this sadly flatout isn't happening either

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Good idea. I'm not actually a big fan of Sony. Not the games, mind you, but the company has made me... upset on more than one occasion.

Fair point my dude.



Not to mention I just remembered something else. Someone here WAY back in February said that Sony might've been the reason that we didn't get Xenoblade Chronicles X music with the Pyra/Mythra CP. Apparently Sony distributed the game's OST as physical copies:

"An official soundtrack album, Xenoblade X Original Soundtrack, was released on May 20, 2015. It was published by Defstar Records and distributed by Sony Music Entertainment Japan. The game's music was arranged into 55 tracks. The album received mixed reviews from music critics." From the game's WikiPedia page.

 

[Twilord]

Ok hold up, big question that popped up in my mind just now:

If a playable character from Dark Souls comes, might we get content from Demon's Souls, too?

Dark Souls - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Well the closest comparisons we have are flawed; those being the lack of a Xenosaga reference with Pyra/Mythra and the lack of SMT with Persona.


That said, I'm kinda hoping we get a Tamagotchi reference IF we get a Digimon.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Nah that's not my reason, I feel Sony's gonna get a character in Smash at one point, but Nintendo wouldn't want to get a character from company X and then include content from company Y, if we didn't get CvS music then this sadly flatout isn't happening either

OOOH I see, thank you for cleaning up what you said! Yea, that makes sense haha.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Fair point my dude.



Not to mention I just remembered something else. Someone here WAY back in February said that Sony might've been the reason that we didn't get Xenoblade Chronicles X music with the Pyra/Mythra CP. Apparently Sony distributed the game's OST as physical copies:

"An official soundtrack album, Xenoblade X Original Soundtrack, was released on May 20, 2015. It was published by Defstar Records and distributed by Sony Music Entertainment Japan. The game's music was arranged into 55 tracks. The album received mixed reviews from music critics." From the game's WikiPedia page.

And yet that music was in XC2’s expansion pass without issue. I doubt that was the reason

I only hope Elma’s a shoo in next game...

 

[GilTheGreat19]

And yet that music was in XC2’s expansion pass without issue. I doubt that was the reason

I only hope Elma’s a shoo in next game...

She does look cool, wouldn't mind having her in the game! :D

 

[Gengar84]

I prefer Jin Kazama since he has the devil gene and I think he'd be more interesting. Then again I don't think any Namco rep is likely.



View attachment 316903

No one else sees it. The Battletoads are totally happening! And they tell me I’m crazy.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

No one else sees it. The Battletoads are totally happening!

View attachment 316904

Rash be like "Yea Killer Instinct is cool, but have you heard of SMASH!?"

 

[Garteam]

I think when we get a Sony character is really contingent upon how well the PS5 performs in the market.

If the PS5 basically becomes the PS4... 2 and sells like hotcakes, Sony can keep up its isolationist approach to cross-platform content and thusly would be unlikely to sit down and have a discussion about Smash Bros.

If the PS5 underperforms like the PS3, I imagine Sony will be more critical of their current policies and reform slowly themselves to be more responsive to market trends. That would likely mean a greater openness in regards to cross-platform content, which would make Kratos/Sackboy/whoever in Smash Bros relatively likely if Nintendo is interested.

 

[PeridotGX]

Ok hold up, big question that popped up in my mind just now:

If a playable character from Dark Souls comes, might we get content from Demon's Souls, too?

Dark Souls - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There might be vauge refrences, but nothing explicit since they're not gonna give Sony money just for some pngs and mp3s. Sorta like the vauge pseudo-refrences to Xenogears and Xenosaga in a few of Pythra's alts.

 

[volbound1700]

I want Waluigi but not necessarily in Smash. I would love to get him in a mainstay Mario game (along with Wario again).

The best roll would have them as sub-bosses helping Bowser.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think when we get a Sony character is really contingent upon how well the PS5 performs in the market.

If the PS5 basically becomes the PS4... 2 and sells like hotcakes, Sony can keep up its isolationist approach to cross-platform content and thusly would be unlikely to sit down and have a discussion about Smash Bros.

If the PS5 underperforms like the PS3, I imagine Sony will be more critical of their current policies and reform slowly themselves to be more responsive to market trends. That would likely mean a greater openness in regards to cross-platform content, which would make Kratos/Sackboy/whoever in Smash Bros relatively likely if Nintendo is interested.

I'm not so sure about that, we did get 2 Sony games on PC and those were ps4 games

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I think when we get a Sony character is really contingent upon how well the PS5 performs in the market.

If the PS5 basically becomes the PS4... 2 and sells like hotcakes, Sony can keep up its isolationist approach to cross-platform content and thusly would be unlikely to sit down and have a discussion about Smash Bros.

If the PS5 underperforms like the PS3, I imagine Sony will be more critical of their current policies and reform slowly themselves to be more responsive to market trends. That would likely mean a greater openness in regards to cross-platform content, which would make Kratos/Sackboy/whoever in Smash Bros relatively likely if Nintendo is interested.

This is actually a very smart perspective, props to you on thinking of this!

Given its currently limited manufacturing numbers, I think it's really hard to tell how truly successful the PS5 will be. It's sold around 7.8M units at the time this was written, which is for sure a good number. If it can sell around 116M units, the number of PS4s sold as of now, then yea, Sony has little to no need for cross-platform projects.

 

[7NATOR]

I agree with you especially since How I see this pass is Essentially the final touches on art piece of smash bros ultimate. At this point feel like the last 6 characters were mainly to fill in the gaps one way or another. final fantasy content buff which gave the franchise the representation it deserved. Arms would be in if not for bad timing and also Xenoblade chronicles. Minecraft is like the biggest game out there.
In a game thats been referred to as a celebration of gaming would be strange if a game where you can play as Mario, Luigi, Peach, Daisy, and Wario But not waluigi?!
Think of it this way, if your sculpting something and your almost done with your project, you should at this point have a pretty clear vision of what you want it to be. This is where you put the details and final touches and finish unfinalized parts whether it be you weren't quite sure how to go about it or just put it off until now.
Now in short what I'm tryin to explain is Sakurai cares about this franchise and I wont go too deep into it but Masahiro Sakurai and Satoru Iwata worked together and seemed to be good friends. And with Iwatas unfortunate passing, I think I remember hearing how smash ultimate is sakurai's way of honoring iwata. (here's a vid it explaining that a lot better than me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20wxJs-G1Qg) Basically sakurai takes this very seriously and certain things in the game that could've and should've been in the game beforehand are going to be added in the last pass for one reason or another.

Ya a lot of people don't like min min but imagine looking back at this game years from now and not seeing one of nintendo's newest ips playable in smash ultimate. That's how people were feeling about Final Fantasy content before sephiroth. Fun fact sakurai did want to include more final fantasy characters (including sephiroth) in smash wii u but of course that wasn't the game plan with how they were adding characters back then. And now we have Sephiroth.

Now with all the fan support that waluigi has gotten especially since ultimate came out, i think if there was one for character added cause of fan support (much like banjo and kazooie/krool/ridley) it would be waluigi.

Anyways, In short, I think this final pass is just the final touches via implementing previous ideas that couldn't work out before or now things are more possible now then the were two years ago, essentially tying up the biggest loose ends or putting the cherry on top



I think out loud so if this is a bit messy forgive me lol

Edit: took me a bit to type this all out so it may be way late to the convo

I agree with all of this, and I think Waluigi is a character that has the merits to Complete Smash Ultimate in people's eyes

I just don't think Waluigi is exclusive in this regard. I think because of the Reggie Comment, along with all the fan support he has, he does look like the biggest character to achieve this, he just isn't the only one though.

While it is weird that Waluigi won't be playable in a game where other Mario characters are, it also goes multiple ways that certain omissions are gonna occur with there only being 2 slots. People are gonna find it weird how Crash, Master Chief, Doomguy, Ryu Hayabusa, Dante, Rayman, Sora are missing in a game about Celebrating Video game history. People are gonna find it weird how Sonic still only has 1 character. How Bandana Dee and Dixie Kong are still not in the game yet

Good Luck to Waluigi fans in regards to the last 2 fighters. He does have a good chance to be chosen I feel

 

[Twilord]

She does look cool, wouldn't mind having her in the game! :D

I honestly think she nearly got in, but then Bayonetta blindsided them.

I mean they're both slide-kicking dual-gun wielders. Somehow I find it oddly easy to imagine an unfinished Elma being repurposed into Bayonetta.

Especially because otherwise it means that they passed over Elma and went straight to Corrin...

Given that Xenoblade / Monolithsoft are more first party than Fire Emblem / Intelligent Systems, and Xenoblade really needed the advertising more (and was definitely the better game)... that doesn't seem right.

 

[Perkilator]

shrugs
You bring up a good point about the 2 stages, though.

inb4 Eggman is in the pass, and if he is..

I WANT SONGS FROM SONIC ALL STARS RACING TRANSFORMED

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Dude, I will take just about ANY number of Sonic songs if Eggman gets in, purely because there's so many songs that should be in the game.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Elegance.
Grace.

Waluigi.

 

[Schnee117]

I'm not so sure about that, we did get 2 Sony games on PC and those were ps4 games

To be fair those were also years after the fact.
Horizon took about 3 years, same with Days Gone and Uncharted 4 is apparently coming at some point and it'll have been 5/6 years by then.
Death Stranding is probably a better point for comparison given it took 6 months but even then I think that's more a case of Sony funding it but letting Kojima keep ownership or something because 505 published the PC port instead of Playstation Mobile.

 

[Gnateb]

Honestly I'd be quite happy to hear the case for Dark Souls, but I will warn - I'd be surprised if Bandai Namco, if asked (and I suspect they would be) decided to choose a franchise that is effectively over.

Tales Of and Digimon both have new games coming up that Bandai Namco have high hopes for. (Also in Digimon's case the Vitality Bracelet and new card game also seem like things they're pushing hard right now.)

About Souls being effectively "over", I have a couple of things to say. I think Souls isn't going to be de-facto over for a long time.

The Souls series has proven very profitable for Bandai Namco is a relatively short period of time. In only 10 years and 3 (4 if you count the remaster) games, the series has become their best selling RPG franchise, and the 6th best selling JRPG franchise worldwide. Dark Souls III remains their fastest selling game to date. Namco also seems to have taken notice; the Solaire Amiibo is still their only one. They chose to go through pretty significant expense to make their only Amiibo figure for Dark Souls, instead of any of their other franchises (most notably Taiko and Digimon, since they are most often associated with physical merchandise). What's more, Dark Souls is one of the only two series to have an Amiibo, but absolutely no representation in Smash yet. Sorry for how many times I've said this here, lol.

Despite the Amiibo releasing during Smash's development cycle, and being made by the company which co-develops Ultimate, not even a compatible PNG has been added to Smash yet. Maybe it's Bamco being humble, but I don't think that licensing a spirit for Smash was impossible if the companies were willing to make an entire Amiibo. Most other Amiibo which had no series representation in Smash have been slowly made compatible post-launch. Also, the Solaire Amiibo is super useless at the moment. It's only designated purpose in one game; Dark Souls Remastered, and all it does is give you a cosmetic emote which is obtainable through normal play.

Only 1/3 of the mainline games have been ported to the Switch as of yet, and both the second and third could run on the Switch (and definitely the Switch pro) with some minor adjustments. Though Elden Ring and future Souls-like FromSoftware games might lack the title of "Souls", they are still very much seen as part of the same family of games.

 

[SKX31]

To be fair, platformers aren't based around their combat.

Dante and Bayo kinda live-and-breath stylish combo energy with gimmicks to help you style on your victims.

's key weaknesses include:

• She does not have solid KO moves outside of her Smash attacks (which are telegraphed), B-Air (which needs to be sweetspoted) or a risky D-Air. As for Witch Time, as with any counter-move it's about anticipating when it'll be used.
• Her combo starters are rather telegraphed / punishable as well from shields.
• Her combos can be escaped from if one learns when and where to DI / air dodge (dependent on which character one's using).

Dante can share those traits (or some other weaknesses) to offset the advantages of being able to do 40-50 % consistently brings and should be fine as a result. IIRC he doesn't have a lot of moves that would have high knockback (one example being Stinger, and that one is telegraphed) so there's that for starters.

I'm not so sure about that, we did get 2 Sony games on PC and those were ps4 games

To be fair those were also years after the fact.
Horizon took about 3 years, same with Days Gone and Uncharted 4 is apparently coming at some point and it'll have been 5/6 years by then.
Death Stranding is probably a better point for comparison given it took 6 months but even then I think that's more a case of Sony funding it but letting Kojima keep ownership or something because 505 published the PC port instead of Playstation Mobile.

It's part of Sony's recent shift towards PC, and that is partially motivated by the desire to target markets that are PC / mobile centric:

It's because of this that I kinda doubt Sony will look towards the Switch right now - but given that Sony's looking at what Microsoft are doing and dipping their toes in the water, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if something like that happens a couple years (or more) down the line. But I wouldn't count on it really.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

To be fair those were also years after the fact.
Horizon took about 3 years, same with Days Gone and Uncharted 4 is apparently coming at some point and it'll have been 5/6 years by then.
Death Stranding is probably a better point for comparison given it took 6 months but even then I think that's more a case of Sony funding it but letting Kojima keep ownership or something because 505 published the PC port instead of Playstation Mobile.

Ah, wasn't aware Kojima had ownership instead of Sony so I assumed it counted

 

[walugurl]

I want Waluigi but not necessarily in Smash. I would love to get him in a mainstay Mario game (along with Wario again).

The best roll would have them as sub-bosses helping Bowser.

See this is why I would rather have him in smash over a main game. I want to play as him. Not too fond of unplayable roles tbh.

 

[Sage of Ice]

See this is why I would rather have him in smash over a main game. I want to play as him. Not too fond unplayable roles tbh.

the obvious solution is to give waluigi his own game. it's time. it's Waluigi Time.

imagine Untitled Goose Game, but it's Waluigi. you go around the Mushroom Kingdom (or whatever funky original setting on second thought it's gotta be the mushroom kingdom, after all the goal of the game is to help legitimize him as more than a spinoff guy), making yourself the most bothersome nuisance you can possibly be to all the residents

 

[walugurl]

the obvious solution is to give waluigi his own game. it's time. it's Waluigi Time.

imagine Untitled Goose Game, but it's Waluigi. you go around the Mushroom Kingdom (or whatever funky original setting), making yourself the most bothersome nuisance you can possibly be to all the residents

Nah I just want him in smash is all.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

What's more, Dark Souls is one of the only two series to have an Amiibo but absolutely no representation in Smash yet.

The other being Diablo.

 

[Twilord]

's key weaknesses include:

• She does not have solid KO moves outside of her Smash attacks (which are telegraphed), B-Air (which needs to be sweetspoted) or a risky D-Air. As for Witch Time, as with any counter-move it's about anticipating when it'll be used.
• Her combo starters are rather telegraphed / punishable as well from shields.
• Her combos can be escaped from if one learns when and where to DI / air dodge (dependent on which character one's using).

Dante can share those traits (or some other weaknesses) to offset the advantages of being able to do 40-50 % consistently brings and should be fine as a result. IIRC he doesn't have a lot of moves that would have high knockback (one example being Stinger, and that one is telegraphed) so there's that for starters.

I'm aware; also kind of have the slightly controversial opinion they went too far with her in this game in the other direction at the start.

Nailing the balance on DLC release with Dante would be a big challenge; especially if they stop doing balance adjustments shortly afterwards. Not saying he shouldn't happen; just that if he does I really hope he doesn't end up being someone we wished they'd added earlier.

 

[Gnateb]

The other being Diablo.

Yep

 

[Twilord]

I know we have a Fatal Frame Assist Trophy, but it would be cool to see a fighter from that franchise. Seems like it would have a lot of room for a very unique gameplay style.

 

[Momotsuki]

The final fighter could be Waluigi, Crash Bandicoot, Geno, and Master Chief on eachother's shoulders in a trenchcoat, and the reception would be mixed at best. As for me... I think I'm just gonna enjoy the last bit of this ride. It's been fun, and enough good has come out of it for me to be fine with however it ends.

 

[TriggerX]

Only way I see Nintendo allowing for any Sony representatives in super smash is if that character has appeared on a Nintendo Platform or is in the process of being on one.

That isn't completely impossible though, I could see Sony willing to part ways with some older God of War games that they are no longer making too much money off of. Kratos did also appear in Fortnite so similarly to Cloud, I guess you could say he did make an appearance at least once.

Personally I could do without Waluigi, I'd much rather see resources focused on characters from unrepresented or under represented series in smash. He does appear to have strong support though, so I could see him happening possibly as a bonus character. Only reason I don't think he is part of the pass is because its likely been in development for quite some time. Seems unlikely to me that they would designate him as an assist and playable earlier on in development.

We'll see though, pass is almost to an end.

 

[Technomage]

The final fighter could be Waluigi, Crash Bandicoot, Geno, and Master Chief on eachother's shoulders in a trenchcoat, and the reception would be mixed at best. As for me... I think I'm just gonna enjoy the last bit of this ride. It's been fun, and enough good has come out of it for me to be fine with however it ends.

LOL Imagine what that'd look like shrunken down for Smash. XD

And we all used to say Ridley was too big to Smash.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

There is a possibility that Sonic will NOT be in the next Smash game because HE'S ALREADY DEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD

AAAAAAATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATA!