Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Lionfranky]

I'm a huge, HUGE Crash fan, and for the longest time, to me at least, Crash has started to feel like the newest Doomslayer/Hayabusa/Geno/Dante.


A character who people swear up and down is 100% happening, but ends up not. There's definitely a chance that the aforementioned characters come still, but as time marches on, my faith in them dwindles substantially.


Chief will fall into this category as well if he misses E3.

Steve speculation might have died down after Banjo, but he was still big in speculation iirc even more so than Chief in general.

 

[ProfPeanut]

Speculators, oblige this hypothetical timeline:

Imagine if Incineroar and King K. Rool had swapped places. Incineroar caps off the August 2018 Smash Direct instead, and right after the Isabelle reveal the community hears from Vergeben that K. Rool and Ken are confirmed, aligning with Box Theory that there are only two newcomer spots left. The Grinch Leak still appears later as scheduled, placing both Banjo and Geno in direct competition against King K. Rool.

How would you imagine speculation going, in that final week before the November 2018 Direct?

(You could also imagine Ridley as the final reveal in this scenario, though in that case I'd still put Incin as the August reveal and K. Rool as the E3 reveal.)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't know, I feel like Snake works because outside of Smash Bros, he fights stuff like the apes from ape escape, Rathalos from monster hunter and the series has this self awareness that it's a video game so it's kind of in character for Snake to be in Smash Bros. That's just my take on it, I don't care if it doesn't make sense.

Nah it makes sense.

I'm all for characters like the RE crew or Lara Croft because they have that fantastical element to them. Their franchises do have absurdities that help them make more sense for Smash.

Meanwhile, a franchise like Last of Us.... is treated as seriously as possible. It'd be strange to see Joel doing acrobatics needed for the jumps.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

So hum, you know how people though that Crash might jave "leaked" because of his voice actor and such and how a certain website wrote an article?
Well...

Seems that Imran debunked this and Crash might not be our next Character.

I wouldn't say Irman is necessarily disconfirming Crash here.

At most, it appears he's just openly criticizing the article, and calling it out for the blatant clickbait it is

 

[Schnee117]

I wouldn't say Irman is necessarily disconfirming Crash here.

At most, it appears he's just openly criticizing the article, and calling it out for the blatant clickbait it is

That's exactly what it is but people want to read too much into someone simply saying an article is crap.

There's a whole bunch of steps to go through before saying Crash is out. Doing so because of this tweet alone is jumping the gun big time. Kinda sad that that's the default immediate reaction here tbh.

 

[Nekoo]

I think people fail to understand that it's not because some random shmuk suddenly says "no" that it means that Crash is off.

But that, this website, who did tons of articles through the year about "THE NEXT SMASH DLC LEAKED????" and no one reacted, knowing it was either quoting rumours, or speculation, and that literally no one said anything, because of course we know it did not.

And that in the specific timeframe, near E3, where "higher up" people with sources would finally start to know info about what is coming up would suddenly quote this Article, this time, about Crash, and simply say "No" when said person who clearly had and has info about smash, themselves know that you don't put the fire to the Smash Fanbase for nothing to not get backfire decide to straight up answer with a "No"

Is what is interesting.

Doesn't mean that Crash is out, might just mean that Crash is not Next.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Honestly given that we'll likely get the next fighter shortly after E3, I always thought it seemed unlikely that Crash actors would be doing voice work for the characters this close to release anyway. I suspect even if Crash is Fighter 11, that the work (voice stuff included) is probably done by now.

 

[DX_E]

Nah it makes sense.

I'm all for characters like the RE crew or Lara Croft because they have that fantastical element to them. Their franchises do have absurdities that help them make more sense for Smash.

Meanwhile, a franchise like Last of Us.... is treated as seriously as possible. It'd be strange to see Joel doing acrobatics needed for the jumps.

I agree with this. Although, Joel, Ellie and Nathan Drake could have a similar jumping technique as Snake, I can't imagine them getting into Smash.

I occasionally see the argument that Lara would be too normal for Smash but she's faught against dinosaurs, atlanteon alien monsters/demons, dragons and the undead. It's like yeah, she's a normal human being but she's also an acrobatic powerhouse. She's a survivalist armed with a great array of tools and weapons and I can't imagine her playing like any of the other "normal" characters we already have in Smash such as Little Mac, Ryu, Simon, Snake, Link, Terry and ZZS.

Same with a Resident Evil character. They'd bring something pretty unique to the game despite being human.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Oh yay, I found a leak from 4chan:
View attachment 316085
pretty much fake but Wario Land 6 and a new Donkey Kong Country would make me so happy.

Fake because Pokémon loves to do their own thing. Remember how Sword and Shield got basically a 30 second clip talking about how they were doing their own thing? Do not expect a big Pokémon thing in the e3 direct.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I think it's fair to say that our three M-rated series in Smash - arguably the most "serious ones" - have plenty of wacky **** happening in them. Even series like Resident Evil, GTA and Tomb Raider have a lot of campy/"video-gamey" elements to them.

Personally, I'd draw the line in stuff like TLOU and Silent Hill - not because of realism, I mean, you're fighting people infected by fungi and monsters made of people's traumas, respectively - but rather because it's harder to translate the "feel" of a series that takes itself too seriously into Smash. How do you translate "serious" psychological horror into a party game about knocking people off of platforms?

To be clear, that's not to say it can't or shouldn't be tried, just that it's definitely a design challenge and I personally don't see a good solution.

In other news - I just wanna say that if we ever get a Valve rep, I want their trailer to be made entirely in SFM. It has this way of looking beautiful and like **** at once and I love it.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Doesn't mean that Crash is out, might just mean that Crash is not Next.

Even so I was expecting him to be Fighter 10 and our E3 reveal. If he is neither then I don't see him happening which would be sad to see because he's got everything going for him and he'd be our second non-human DLC character. Oh well.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Even so I was expecting him to be Fighter 10 and our E3 reveal. If he is neither then I don't see him happening which would be sad to see because he's got everything going for him and he'd be our second non-human DLC character. Oh well.

Yeah Smash always ends on a low note as their last character, if Crash isn't next as Imran said and what the interview was pointing out, he's not in at all. I'm on the belief we're getting Chief as our E3 reveal.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Even so I was expecting him to be Fighter 10 and our E3 reveal. If he is neither then I don't see him happening which would be sad to see because he's got everything going for him and he'd be our second non-human DLC character. Oh well.

I personally don't see Crash being last either. I feel like characters like him, Chief or Sora would be way too big of a deal to end the roster, considering that reveals are usually frontloaded.

It's kinda telling that in all development cycles - including separating base roster and DLC passes, the roster only wrapped up on a third party once, and it was the smallest third party franchise in that cycle .

Doesn't mean the last caracter will be disappointing either, I just don't see it being a huge fan-favorite or a best-seller franchise.

 

[Perkilator]

The Crash voice actor thing was never for Smash, the voice actor for Neo Cortex said so himself.
From Smash Wiki:

Doesn’t mean Crash is out. IIRC, voice work for Smash is usually done far in advance, right?

 

[Nekoo]

Doesn’t mean Crash is out. IIRC, voice work for Smash is usually done far in advance, right?

Do we know about that? Irc, they scrambled to make Joker's reveal for the VGA with the recording but that's because they weren't even sure to reveal Joker there.
Trailer only voicework is very different than game voicework, I wouldnt be surprised if, for exemple Rex/Pyra/Mythra/Shulk came back to record the trailer AFTER they did the in-game voice work.

 

[Dinoman96]

I think it's gonna be really demoralizing for a lot of the Smash fandom if/when the E3 reveal is some Pokemon or first party character (that isn't like, Waluigi) instead of a big hype third party.

Like it feels like this is basically the last chance for a character like that, and if we get someone like Cinderace instead, all that's gonna be left to look forward to is most likely another low key Nintendo (or maybe third party) rep that caps off the pass and Ultimate as a whole. Would kinda have a depressing atmosphere for the next few months, unless you're a first party purist I guess.

 

[Perkilator]

Do we know about that? Irc, they scrambled to make Joker's reveal for the VGA with the recording but that's because they weren't even sure to reveal Joker there.
Trailer only voicework is very different than game voicework, I wouldnt be surprised if, for exemple Rex/Pyra/Mythra/Shulk came back to record the trailer AFTER they did the in-game voice work.

Ah, okay. Still, I wouldn’t take that quote about the Crash-related voice work not being for Smash as a deconfirmation.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think it's gonna be really demoralizing for a lot of the Smash fandom if/when the E3 reveal is some Pokemon or first party character (that isn't like, Waluigi) instead of a big hype third party.

Like it feels like this is basically the last chance for a character like that, and if we get someone like Cinderace instead, all that's gonna be left to look forward to is most likely another low key Nintendo (or maybe third party) rep that caps off the pass and Ultimate as a whole. Would kinda have a depressing atmosphere for the next few months, unless you're a first party purist I guess.

I think to some degree its why I've kept something like a Gen 8 Pokémon in the back of my mind as a valid possibility because the Smash DLC cycle has been an effective lesson in the dangers having very high and specific hopes for characters. 10 and 11 could be mind blowing fighters from third party series we've long wanted in Ultimate, or just Nintendo ones that are logical but unspectacular. The Fighters Passes have zigged too many times for me to definitely say its one way or another.

And first party disappointment is of course a matter of opinion. If its a Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, or Impa I'm thrilled at their inclusion with others seeing it as a letdown, while whatever meh reaction to Pokémon character I might have will contrast with fans that are beyond excited at their favorite getting in.

 

[Nekoo]

A first party get announced at E3
Everyone meltdown, rejoice, days of doom are upon us
Patch note change nothing but "Fix multi-hit" for the 999th time since the release
We get closer and closer to the final fighter and there's rumour that it's Humpty Dumpty the Famouso roumpty from the 90's Era
Me after Sora got deconfirmed, and Square-Enix already double-dipped in pass 1 and 2

Stay for the Ride. Not the destination.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Ir Roy of all people managed to be an E3 Tier reveal, don't be surprised if what we get is not Crash, or Chief, or Rayman, or whatever you guys have in mind.

I im actually kinda expecting Reimu and Saber, not because i want them oh god no, but because life be like that sometimes.

View attachment 316208

Stay for the Ride. Not the destination.

You know this makes me think. What kinda first party we would get if this happens? I mean i would love Dixie (not echo style) and Bandanna Dee, but they are clearly not happening if Pyra and Min Min are any indication, and outside of a PKMN rep i can't think of any relevant Nintendo character to fill in.

I mean there are a lot of Nintendo characters i would love to see, but with the current trends of FP1 and 2, the choices are so limited........well, more like the CHOICE is very limited.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think it's fair to say that our three M-rated series in Smash - arguably the most "serious ones" - have plenty of wacky **** happening in them. Even series like Resident Evil, GTA and Tomb Raider have a lot of campy/"video-gamey" elements to them.

Personally, I'd draw the line in stuff like TLOU and Silent Hill - not because of realism, I mean, you're fighting people infected by fungi and monsters made of people's traumas, respectively - but rather because it's harder to translate the "feel" of a series that takes itself too seriously into Smash. How do you translate "serious" psychological horror into a party game about knocking people off of platforms?

To be clear, that's not to say it can't or shouldn't be tried, just that it's definitely a design challenge and I personally don't see a good solution.

In other news - I just wanna say that if we ever get a Valve rep, I want their trailer to be made entirely in SFM. It has this way of looking beautiful and like **** at once and I love it.

I can't spell his username as my new phone's keyboard doesn't have as many letter options, but the guy who kept shilling Pyramid Head a while back suggested Pyramid Head could inflict debuffs and/or be a Juggernaut/Broly/K.Rool kind of character, meaning that if he hits you, you get more vulnerable while PH gets opportunities to abuse his advantage, after all, what scares a player in a fighting game? Being in a horrible disadvantage

 

[Wunderwaft]

Assuming we don't get a double reveal at E3, the speculation for the final character is going to be quite interesting, and by interesting I mean expect more fake leaks and angry discussions because no one can excuse a character by "there's another slot" since this'll be the end of Smash Ultimate.

I lucked out with two characters so I'm not expecting to get anyone else anymore. I'll just be sitting in the audience and witness the madness that will unfold.

You know this makes me think. What kinda first party we would get if this happens? I mean i would love Dixie (not echo style) and Bandanna Dee, but they are clearly not happening if Pyra and Min Min are any indication, and outside of a PKMN rep i can't think of any relevant Nintendo character to fill in.

I mean there are a lot of Nintendo characters i would love to see, but with the current trends of FP1 and 2, the choices are so limited........well, more like the CHOICE is very limited.

Octoling seems like a character with a good shot that people are slightly sleeping on. They come from a successful Switch title and they can bring in content from Octo expansion which is surprisingly unrepresented in Smash. The only hit against them seems to be Marie and Callie costumes, but I'd argue those costumes come from Splatoon 1 specifically and they seem to follow the odd trend of releasing mii costumes of characters represented in ATs like what happened with Bomberman.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

I expect the last character to be a low-tier reveal. It's funny how other games like DBFZ had someone like Gogeta SSJ4 as a last reveal, yet Smash seems fine by putting the last reveal to end with a whimper, but that's just how it is.

Hell, i argue that if we are gonna get an Indie character AT ALL, being the last reveal seems like a good fit, as most Indies tend to always be small scale.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

On the one hand I too agree that the Squid Sisters Miis only exist cause of the AT just like with Bomberman and the returning Akira Yuki Mii

on the other hand

I lowkey want Off the Hook (Pearl & Marina) costumes to come with a hypothetical Octoling’s Mii wave

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I suspect Octoling gets somewhat slept on because there's an assumption that they'll play similar to Inklings and pretty much all the Ultimate DLC characters have been very distinct in their gameplay.

They could very well be quite different but I suspect there's a bit of that mentality at work.

 

[Eldrake]

In other news - I just wanna say that if we ever get a Valve rep, I want their trailer to be made entirely in SFM. It has this way of looking beautiful and like **** at once and I love it.

I mean, if the pandemic causes potential development issues, and we get a Valve rep in the middle of the pandemic, then there's the possibility that Valve could help out by making a SFM trailer for their rep. They made a SFM film just for Short Film Contest 2021, so the guys who work on SFM stuff over at Valve could probably take some time to make, for example, a remake of the Half-Life 2 intro specifically for Smash. Presumably the only mandatory Smash-related asset they'd have to create from the bottom up would be a smash invitation or some rendition of the smash logo (unless of course they already happen to have such assets lying around for some reason), because Nintendo would probably take care of the gameplay footage.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I suspect Octoling gets somewhat slept on because there's an assumption that they'll play similar to Inklings and pretty much all the Ultimate DLC characters have been very distinct in their gameplay.

They could very well be quite different but I suspect there's a bit of that mentality at work.

Way I see it the only thing Octoling would share with Inkling are the up B (but with an octopus instead of a squid) and ink mechanic. Even then the ink mechanic could work differently like some moves could use more ink but do more damage. I definitely see different weapons being used like the Charger, Dualies and Splatling

 

[Brother AJ]

The Crash voice actor thing was never for Smash, the voice actor for Neo Cortex said so himself.
From Smash Wiki:

This is honestly the most concerning news thus far. The Imran comment doesn't really tell us much. It's possible I'm reading too much into it, but saying "I wish" seems to indicate one of two things:

1. If Crash is in the game, there will be no voice work done for Cortex (or at least by this VA).

2. Crash isn't coming at all.

Honestly I'm starting to feel like it's best to set my expectations to zero at the moment.

 

[Technomage]

Speaking of Sony in Smash, I got a similar idea: How would a crossover between Smash Bros. and Playstation All-Stars sound?

Ignoring the odds that we get a sony character, who do you think it would be if we did? I think that Ratchet, Kratos, and Sackboy are the likeliest (in that order), with other possible candidates being Aloy, Kat, the Ghost of Tshushima guy, and Astro Bot being other possibilities. I doubt they'd go with a TLoU character, the Venn Diagram of Smash Fans and TLOU fans is basically a pair of glasses and I can't imagine a character from the game would be very interesting in Smash.

I'd think the likeliest Sony peeps would be Kratos, Sackboy, Nathan Drake, and Ratchet & Clank.

TLOU is a very un-Nintendo game. It has realistic characters in a very dark setting, with large amounts of story and relatively little gameplay. This isn't a bad thing, but people who prefer Nintendo games might not be big fans of the series.

There's also the fact that there are a lot of people who hate the second game for its political propaganda. After all, if you go woke, you go broke.

I think how "innovative" the next smash is really just depends on Sakurais involvement. He talks a big game about "taking a break" and such other implications, but Nintendos never going to let the series go idle too long. I don't think they'll ever exclude him, but would gladly move ahead without him if they had to. It's also hard to see him ever letting his legacy left completely in the hands of others. I truly think the man is doomed to carry the burden of smash development, at least in some controlling capacity, for the rest of his life.

Regardless, it's going to have to come off as a reboot to the series. We'll never get a smash game of this scope again. I think a big part of smash's infamy is how, especially from a more casual stand point, smash has always been the same game, just bigger and better each time. You're going to have a really hard time justifying less content unless you market it as Smash taken to the next level.

Since Japanese work culture discourages people from taking breaks from work until they're either dead or a decrepit and senile elder. Thus, I think that when Sakurai talked about "taking a break," he meant taking a break from Smash Bros. and working on a different game (like another Kid Icarus game).

Anyone can fit.

I agree; after all, these characters all came from different dimensions (which oftentimes have things like different laws of physics and different biological differences amongst human); thus, it wouldn't seem too out of place to have realistic and gritty characters in the game (since the characters also all have different art-styles, which could qualify as biological differences in-universe).

Even so I was expecting him to be Fighter 10 and our E3 reveal. If he is neither then I don't see him happening which would be sad to see because he's got everything going for him and he'd be our second non-human DLC character. Oh well.

Third, actually. We got Piranha Plant and Banjo-Kazooie.

 

[Guynamednelson]

You know this makes me think. What kinda first party we would get if this happens? I mean i would love Dixie (not echo style) and Bandanna Dee, but they are clearly not happening if Pyra and Min Min are any indication, and outside of a PKMN rep i can't think of any relevant Nintendo character to fill in.

I mean there are a lot of Nintendo characters i would love to see, but with the current trends of FP1 and 2, the choices are so limited........well, more like the CHOICE is very limited.

To be fair, Corrin and Byleth made it seem like ARMS and XC2 reps were impossible themselves, and first party DLC was restricted to characters from the last six months. Hell if this pass is built around character plans from years ago, that might mean it was locked in long before November 2019, AKA when Smash fans didn't universally agree that most first parties were unworthy of DLC.

 

[osby]

Way I see it the only thing Octoling would share with Inkling are the up B (but with an octopus instead of a squid) and ink mechanic. Even then the ink mechanic could work differently like some moves could use more ink but do more damage. I definitely see different weapons being used like the Charger, Dualies and Splatling

So, what would they use instead of Inklings' kick moves?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

There's also the fact that there are a lot of people who hate the second game for its political propaganda. After all, if you go woke, you go broke.

Those people believe Metal Gear, FF7, Three Houses and many more aren't political, there's certainly a lot you can criticize about TLOU2 but "Waaaaah politics!" Isn't one of them, especially as the first game was political too.


Sidenote, I always see people say GO WOKE GO BROKE and everytime, the thing they're talking about is a major success

 

[3BitSaurus]

I can't spell his username as my new phone's keyboard doesn't have as many letter options, but the guy who kept shilling Pyramid Head a while back suggested Pyramid Head could inflict debuffs and/or be a Juggernaut/Broly/K.Rool kind of character, meaning that if he hits you, you get more vulnerable while PH gets opportunities to abuse his advantage, after all, what scares a player in a fighting game? Being in a horrible disadvantage

In one way that's true, but I still tink this doesn't quite hit the mark. Imo the playstyle fits more with a "powerhouse" villain than someone like Pyramid Head.

That's the trouble with SH's breed of horror - it's not just the fact that PH is scary - it's the fact that in the very first encounter he doesn't even attack you, but rather is just stading there until he isn't anymore and now you know that he's somewhere out there. That's the kind of stuff that doesn't easily translate into Smash because he isn't just your regular "undefeated menacing enemy" from a horror game.

Plus there's the whole symbolic aspect of the latter two games - which I'm not sure fits the atmosphere of a fighting game. It's way easier for me to see RE or Dead Rising working than SH, for example.

That said, Konami also saw fit to include PH in that Kart game and as a guest in Bomberman, so... maybe they'd find a way to make it work, I dunno.

I mean, if the pandemic causes potential development issues, and we get a Valve rep in the middle of the pandemic, then there's the possibility that Valve could help out by making a SFM trailer for their rep. They made a SFM film just for Short Film Contest 2021, so the guys who work on SFM stuff over at Valve could probably take some time to make, for example, a remake of the Half-Life 2 intro specifically for Smash. Presumably the only mandatory Smash-related asset they'd have to create from the bottom up would be a smash invitation or some rendition of the smash logo (unless of course they already happen to have such assets lying around for some reason), because Nintendo would probably take care of the gameplay footage.

Yeah, but the best SFM movies are the ones where you can see the people responsible know how to animate, but they choose to make it look uncanny.

Dunno if Nintendo would be ok with that tho...

 

[PacificFun]

Lara Croft
Normal

Yes

 

[chocolatejr9]

View attachment 316216

Yes

What? You don't casually play with Mjolnir?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

In one way that's true, but I still tink this doesn't quite hit the mark. Imo the playstyle fits more with a "powerhouse" villain than someone like Pyramid Head.

That's the trouble with SH's breed of horror - it's not just the fact that PH is scary - it's the fact that in the very first encounter he doesn't even attack you, but rather is just stading there until he isn't anymore and now you know that he's somewhere out there. That's the kind of stuff that doesn't easily translate into Smash because he isn't just your regular "undefeated menacing enemy" from a horror game.

Plus there's the whole symbolic aspect of the latter two games - which I'm not sure fits the atmosphere of a fighting game. It's way easier for me to see RE or Dead Rising working than SH, for example.

That said, Konami also saw fit to include PH in that Kart game and as a guest in Bomberman, so... maybe they'd find a way to make it work, I dunno.



Yeah, but the best SFM movies are the ones where you can see the people responsible know how to animate, but they choose to make it look uncanny.

Dunno if Nintendo would be ok with that tho...

Oh that's fair, Silent Hill fans are always divided about Pyramid Head and the whole symbolism thing after all, I just feel PH can be done properly, but that's obviously something that's not up everyone's alley

 

[Dinoman96]

Ir Roy of all people managed to be an E3 Tier reveal, don't be surprised if what we get is not Crash, or Chief, or Rayman, or whatever you guys have in mind.

So did you fall asleep when Ryu was also revealed at that very same E3 or

 

[chocolatejr9]

So did you fall asleep when Ryu was also revealed at that very same E3 or

No he wasn't, we're still debating him to this day!

Wait, what do you mean, "wrong Ryu"?

 

[Dinoman96]

I think the point is not so much that Nintendo characters can't be revealed at E3, as much as it is that there's always been at least "big" reveal that they've been complementary to.

Like people always point out how Palutena was revealed at E3 2014, but that said E3 still nonetheless had Pac-Man also unveiled, even if it was weirdly behind doors. It's kinda why people speculate that E3 2020 may of revealed Min Min and Steve together.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

No he wasn't, we're still debating him to this day!

Wait, what do you mean, "wrong Ryu"?

And THIS is why we must always refer to the other Ryu as “Hayabusa” to avoid confusion