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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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SharkLord

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This is of course a rumor, but if it turns out that we are indeed getting a DK revival of sorts and that 3D DK game comes to fruition at E3 I could certainly see a DK character as well. Specifically Dixie, assuming they use (and I’d be surprised if they didn’t).
And if we count the rumblings of a new Kirby game with the 3D files found in KF2 and Kumazaki's statements on the next chapter of Kirby, I think we could count Bandana Dee under that as well. Could being the keyword, of course; We don't know any details or even have confirmation of the games, and unless the game's shadowdropped there's also the worry of them being too far off for a promotion beyond Spirits.
 

PeridotGX

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I don't know. Everyone important is already in Smash so I'll just pick John Raimi because I'm disappointed that he wasn't even acknowledged.

View attachment 315813

Like dude, he's as spirit as spirits can get.
i don't think he's too likely, he's probably too busy with the new doctor strange movie.
 

Perkilator

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What first party character do you think is the most likely, if this pass ends off with one?

Before Sephiroth was announced, I was thinking that Impa seemed plausible (between BotW2, Age of Calamity, and her redesign being really popular), but the Age of Calamity spirit event seemed to squash that idea. They could try to promote something, but there haven't been a ton of major first party releases recently. (maybe a gen. 8 Pokemon or one from Pokemon Legends: Arceus? I'm not sure if any stand out - I'm way behind on Pokemon)

I'd love it if we got something like Porky for Smash alongside a Mother/Earthbound trilogy getting released on the Switch, but I doubt that will happen.
I'd like to hope it's Bandana Dee, purely for the fan service.
 

Ivander

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Unrelated, but someone in PapaGeno's Discord apparently owned up to the "Teensie Bit of Trouble" Rabbids leak.
Not that I think the leak is real, but always remember when a person claimed they made the Pokemon Black and White Final Evo. starters and said they were fake, only for them to turn out real.

We've only got a month left until E3, but still, it feels like it's taking forever.
 

Evil Trapezium

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Anyway, here we go.


B: Assault Rifle: John uses an assault rifle, which has limited ammo, and needs time to reload after use.

B Side: Grenade Launcher: John fires a grenade launcher, which also has limited ammo.

B Up: Rocket Propulsion: John uses a rocket launcher to shoot downward, which propels him upward from recoil.

B Down: Mine or Grenade: John throws a mine or grenade at the opponent, which sticks until stepped on or explodes after a short time,

After taking enough damage and inflicting damage to others to fill John's gauge, the shield and B button can be pressed to have John's soul removed from his body, the latter which temporarily disappears. Like said before, John, in this state, is very tangible, but cannot attack unless he turns into, or possesses an object, animal or person. He can also be attacked and damaged while possessing such objects and even be knocked off stage. John moves freely in this form without having to be worried about being knocked off the stage, and is very fast. John returns to his body after the gauge for his soul form is drained. John's soul form drains very fast, and must use his possessions to slow down the draining of the gauge. The gauge itself fills up very slowly. He cannot possess other Smashers in this form, though, but he does not have to find and possess the things he possess to use them. They just randomly appear. He is also affected by gravity when possessing things. His moves in this form are.

B: Animal Possession: John possesses an animal, namely a dog out of nowhere, and for a few seconds, can be used to attack and bite and scratch opponents.

B Side: Person Possession: John possesses a person, namely a Volks soldier, who comes out of nowhere, and for a few seconds, can use weapons he does not use in his normal form, mainly anti-spirit weapons.

B Up: Object Possession: John can possess an ordinary object like a grandfather clock to fall on opponents, and sometimes into a vehicle to ram opponents.

B Down: Weapon Possession: John possesses a weapon such as a turret or grenade to attack enemies, the latter which explodes without harming John.

Final Smash: Whether possessing an object or living being in soul form or in normal form, after getting the Smash Ball, John Raimi turns back to his normal form if he is already in his soul form and fires a guided missile. If this missile does not hit anyone, it does not do anything. If it does hit anyone, a cutscene happens where the opponent(s) are pulled into the afterlife, where they are immediately attacked by souls and ghosts. Then, John, in his soul form, possesses a nuke that fell to the afterlife with the opponent(s) and activates it, blowing up the opponent(s) and sending them flying, possibly getting them KOed.

What do you think?
Special moves for normal Raimi seem pretty faithful but I think we can do better than a rocket jump. He does have the boost mode when you play as him in the final levels, maybe that could be his Up special instead? Also I was thinking that Up special could be his body leave where he saves his soul but gives up his body to make it back to the stage. Or maybe possession and repossession of his body could be his down special.

I don't think I like the whole going around and finding stuff to possess because it reminds me of those ideas of Banjo & Kazooie running around and finding collectables and all that but I can understand that the possession mechanic can be difficult to visualise much else. I can't think of anything much better than what you've made. I think one of his specials should be saved for his electricity attack from the final boss like maybe his neutral special.

Overall I think this moveset is pretty good, I like all of his specials as a human and I think you've done the best job you can with his ghost specials.
 

PacificFun

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I honestly feel the opposite way. I wish more people would pay attention to this statement.

I think a lot of people have a hard time dropping the "Hall of Fame" mentality and look exclusively towards what characters would generate the buzz upon their announcements. However, a lot of the fun of Smash, in general, is seeing weird or unappreciated ideas come to fruition.
For example, while I appreciate that we got :ultbanjokazooie:, :ultsteve:, and :ultsephiroth: in Smash, I kind of like that some of the more unexpected characters like :ulthero:, :ult_terry:, and :ultminmin have made such a big splash gameplay-wise. Life is kind of boring without the occasional curveball.
Hero was a huge reveal though (just not in most of the world) and was also a big fat advertisement. Min Min is a Nintendo character so that statement doesn't really apply to her (we had Ice Climbers in Melee). Even Terry was a relatively big star at one point with the arcade scene (and he was dirt cheap).
 
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N3ON

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IMO the structure of challenger packs can be an issue for characters like Waluigi and maybe Dixie/Dee. I've become more of an Isaac-for-DLC stan because Golden Sun is more challenger pack-friendly, but if there was enough Starfy demand in Japan we didn't know about, The Legendary Starfy is also lacking in a fighter, stage, and music, and Krystal might be able to squeeze by with more Star Fox Zero music/spirits and the return of Orbital Gate Assault.
This is a take I've never really understood. It's the character that gets chosen, and the pack is shaped around them. They're not gonna go, "well everybody wants Waluigi, but these spirits just aren't cutting it". Especially because DK, Kirby and especially Mario still have a ton to offer in terms of possible stages and music. In fact, Waluigi would serve a portion of the Mario series that famously gets glossed over for content; spin-offs. Dixie's most recent notable appearance is a game that barely got content in Smash, and Bandana Dee basically covers the games Sakurai doesn't. So I don't really get it.

You don't need an entirely untouched game, you just need unused content, and Mario, DK and Kirby (and basically every existing series with a halfway plausible addition) have that in spades.
 

Dinoman96

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Out of those characters Nelson mentioned:

Dee's pack could cover modern Kirby games, I guess
Dixie's pack could be based around either DKC3 or Tropical Freeze, both being games that don't have much representation already
Krystal's pack could be based around Star Fox Adventures, another game which doesn't get much love in Smash
Waluigi's pack, as I said before, should just go along with the joke and have the spirits be nothing but various Waluigi appearances, Waluigi Pinball as a stage, remixes only pertaining to Waluigi, etc
 
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CureParfait

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What first party character do you think is the most likely, if this pass ends off with one?

Before Sephiroth was announced, I was thinking that Impa seemed plausible (between BotW2, Age of Calamity, and her redesign being really popular), but the Age of Calamity spirit event seemed to squash that idea. They could try to promote something, but there haven't been a ton of major first party releases recently. (maybe a gen. 8 Pokemon or one from Pokemon Legends: Arceus? I'm not sure if any stand out - I'm way behind on Pokemon)

I'd love it if we got something like Porky for Smash alongside a Mother/Earthbound trilogy getting released on the Switch, but I doubt that will happen.
I think a Pokemon or Waluigi might be most likely if the final character is a first party.
 

Megadoomer

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I don't know. Everyone important is already in Smash so I'll just pick John Raimi because I'm disappointed that he wasn't even acknowledged.

View attachment 315813

Like dude, he's as spirit as spirits can get.
Thanks for reminding me that I've been meaning to play Geist at some point!
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Deep apologies if this had been posted before (I couldn't find it), but Super Bomberman R Online has been freed from the chains of Google Stadia for PS4, Steam, & Switch for release on the 27th:


Not that it'll make much difference Smash wise for a character that's already gotten his big promotion via a Mii Costume, but it is encouraging that Bomberman's getting a good presence on modern consoles again.
 

WeirdChillFever

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The most likely first party character I think is a Splatoon character. Whether that‘s the Squid Sisters, Off The Hook, Octolings, Octavio or Cap’n Cuttlefish or any other character, I think it’d be a good bet. Especially since Splatoon 3 is on the horizon so it can even compete in the Corrin Cup of being right place right time. (Which wouldn’t surprise me. DLC has been going on for two years now so I get if they want to expand their range and grab a character that wouldn’t make the cut in the very hypothetical Next Smash.)
 

CannonStreak

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Special moves for normal Raimi seem pretty faithful but I think we can do better than a rocket jump. He does have the boost mode when you play as him in the final levels, maybe that could be his Up special instead? Also I was thinking that Up special could be his body leave where he saves his soul but gives up his body to make it back to the stage. Or maybe possession and repossession of his body could be his down special.

I don't think I like the whole going around and finding stuff to possess because it reminds me of those ideas of Banjo & Kazooie running around and finding collectables and all that but I can understand that the possession mechanic can be difficult to visualise much else. I can't think of anything much better than what you've made. I think one of his specials should be saved for his electricity attack from the final boss like maybe his neutral special.

Overall I think this moveset is pretty good, I like all of his specials as a human and I think you've done the best job you can with his ghost specials.
Why thanks! I think I will work on the Up B some.
 

SirCamp

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Take this with a massive grain of salt lol, but I’ve heard some rumblings (read completely unsubstantiated rumors lol) that Skyward Sword is going to have some lore tie ins with BotW 2.

As a fun thought exercise I was thinking about what that could mean for Smash IF it were to be true and IF we were to get a character from BotW 2.

What if that character were Fi? I know not everyone’s favorite. BUT, if you think about it, it seems pretty clear that the Smash team, Nintendo, or perhaps Sakurai himself seem to be hesitant to add Zelda characters that aren’t the main triforce wielders. Now obviously Fi is not a triforce wielder, however if they decided to branch out from that but still wanted the character to be centrally, vitally important to the series, what better character is there than the master sword itself? Obviously Fi didn’t show up until Skyward Sword, but she is briefly referenced in BotW and being that she is (or at least is part of) the master sword, she has technically been around the entire time regardless of whether we’ve been aware of it.

Huge tinfoil hat theory of course. And one that’s based on like 5 assumptions lol. But I thought it was an interesting idea.

I’d still prefer Impa tho.
 

Shroob

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Take this with a massive grain of salt lol, but I’ve heard some rumblings (read completely unsubstantiated rumors lol) that Skyward Sword is going to have some lore tie ins with BotW 2.

As a fun thought exercise I was thinking about what that could mean for Smash IF it were to be true and IF we were to get a character from BotW 2.

What if that character were Fi? I know not everyone’s favorite. BUT, if you think about it, it seems pretty clear that the Smash team, Nintendo, or perhaps Sakurai himself seem to be hesitant to add Zelda characters that aren’t the main triforce wielders. Now obviously Fi is not a triforce wielder, however if they decided to branch out from that but still wanted the character to be centrally, vitally important to the series, what better character is there than the master sword itself? Obviously Fi didn’t show up until Skyward Sword, but she is briefly referenced in BotW and being that she is (or at least is part of) the master sword, she has technically been around the entire time regardless of whether we’ve been aware of it.

Huge tinfoil hat theory of course. And one that’s based on like 5 assumptions lol. But I thought it was an interesting idea.

I’d still prefer Impa tho.
I mean, BotW1 already had lore tie ins with SS tbh.
 

SirCamp

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I mean, BotW1 already had lore tie ins with SS tbh.
Fair lol. I’m mostly just letting my mind wander with possibilities. By no means am I saying this is something we should believe or anything. Like I said, fun thought experiment. Repping Zelda with the Triforce wielders and the master sword itself was just kind of a neat idea I thought.
 

SharkLord

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Take this with a massive grain of salt lol, but I’ve heard some rumblings (read completely unsubstantiated rumors lol) that Skyward Sword is going to have some lore tie ins with BotW 2.

As a fun thought exercise I was thinking about what that could mean for Smash IF it were to be true and IF we were to get a character from BotW 2.

What if that character were Fi? I know not everyone’s favorite. BUT, if you think about it, it seems pretty clear that the Smash team, Nintendo, or perhaps Sakurai himself seem to be hesitant to add Zelda characters that aren’t the main triforce wielders. Now obviously Fi is not a triforce wielder, however if they decided to branch out from that but still wanted the character to be centrally, vitally important to the series, what better character is there than the master sword itself? Obviously Fi didn’t show up until Skyward Sword, but she is briefly referenced in BotW and being that she is (or at least is part of) the master sword, she has technically been around the entire time regardless of whether we’ve been aware of it.

Huge tinfoil hat theory of course. And one that’s based on like 5 assumptions lol. But I thought it was an interesting idea.

I’d still prefer Impa tho.
Well, technically speaking Fi's retroactively been in almost every Zelda game by virtue of being the Master Sword, so if we're worried about appearances and one-offs she solves that problem.

Also the fact that she's even more of a sword fighter than Pyra and Mythra, which would be funny to meme about
 

Technomage

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Take this with a massive grain of salt lol, but I’ve heard some rumblings (read completely unsubstantiated rumors lol) that Skyward Sword is going to have some lore tie ins with BotW 2.

As a fun thought exercise I was thinking about what that could mean for Smash IF it were to be true and IF we were to get a character from BotW 2.

What if that character were Fi? I know not everyone’s favorite. BUT, if you think about it, it seems pretty clear that the Smash team, Nintendo, or perhaps Sakurai himself seem to be hesitant to add Zelda characters that aren’t the main triforce wielders. Now obviously Fi is not a triforce wielder, however if they decided to branch out from that but still wanted the character to be centrally, vitally important to the series, what better character is there than the master sword itself? Obviously Fi didn’t show up until Skyward Sword, but she is briefly referenced in BotW and being that she is (or at least is part of) the master sword, she has technically been around the entire time regardless of whether we’ve been aware of it.

Huge tinfoil hat theory of course. And one that’s based on like 5 assumptions lol. But I thought it was an interesting idea.

I’d still prefer Impa tho.
If we were to get a Skyward Sword character, then I'd prefer Demise (especially if that mummy in BotW2's trailer is him creating a new body), due to his importance to Zelda's lore.
 

CannonStreak

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If we were to get a Skyward Sword character, then I'd prefer Demise (especially if that mummy in BotW2's trailer is him creating a new body), due to his importance to Zelda's lore.
If we get Demise, we should get Ghirahim as part of his moveset. That would be the closest we'd get to having him as a playable, and I know he is already an assist.
 

SirCamp

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Well, technically speaking Fi's retroactively been in almost every Zelda game by virtue of being the Master Sword, so if we're worried about appearances and one-offs she solves that problem.

Also the fact that she's even more of a sword fighter than Pyra and Mythra, which would be funny to meme about
Yeah exactly what I was thinking tbh. I don’t personally think that should be a problem, but I suppose if you were to enforce that she would work in a way other characters wouldn’t.
If we were to get a Skyward Sword character, then I'd prefer Demise (especially if that mummy in BotW2's trailer is him creating a new body), due to his importance to Zelda's lore.
Another good option. Fi definitely isn’t my preferred Zelda character. Just thought it would be a fun idea to talk about. And in particular about a character that doesn’t get mentioned often.
 

Guynamednelson

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This is a take I've never really understood. It's the character that gets chosen, and the pack is shaped around them. They're not gonna go, "well everybody wants Waluigi, but these spirits just aren't cutting it". Especially because DK, Kirby and especially Mario still have a ton to offer in terms of possible stages and music. In fact, Waluigi would serve a portion of the Mario series that famously gets glossed over for content; spin-offs. Dixie's most recent notable appearance is a game that barely got content in Smash, and Bandana Dee basically covers the games Sakurai doesn't. So I don't really get it.

You don't need an entirely untouched game, you just need unused content, and Mario, DK and Kirby (and basically every existing series with a halfway plausible addition) have that in spades.
It doesn't really seem like they're picking characters that aren't "challenger pack friendly", however. The closest we've gotten are Sephiroth and Pythra, and even then, FFVII spirits/more than two songs and an XC2 fighter/stage were things Smash was clearly missing.
 

N3ON

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It doesn't really seem like they're picking characters that aren't "challenger pack friendly", however. The closest we've gotten are Sephiroth and Pythra, and even then, FFVII spirits/more than two songs and an XC2 fighter/stage were things Smash was clearly missing.
But I'm saying what makes these characters not "challenger pack friendly"? They all have a litany of material to work with. The idea that every piece of content has to be tailored most to that one character isn't accurate. As funny as it would be, it's not like every spirit that comes with Waluigi would have to be of Waluigi. It's not like every track has to be Waluigi's theme. It just being Mario spin-off stuff would be relevant enough to the character.
 

Technomage

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So it's what, 27 days until E3, right?


Theoretically, we should be getting Nintendo's E3 plans this upcoming week(maybe), so we'll know at least what day to take off from work, I mean, stay up all night to watch live, wait, wait, I really mean...... ah hell, you know it's true.
Actually, it's 24 days 'til the beginning of E3, though it's also 27 days 'til the end of E3; Ninty's E3 stuff will be sometime between that timeframe.
 
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MooMew64

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So it's what, 27 days until E3, right?


Theoretically, we should be getting Nintendo's E3 plans this upcoming week(maybe), so we'll know at least what day to take off from work, I mean, stay up all night to watch live, wait, wait, I really mean...... ah hell, you know it's true.
Well, theoretically, there is a chance they go on the weekend, as the only weekday E3 is on is the last day on Monday.

So that's of course when Nintendo will go. :4pacman:
 

Gnateb

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That relatable moment when you tell a theory to papagenos on Twitter, and then several weeks later he covers the same thing after someone else said it on Smashboards.
 

perfectchaos83

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I don't think Steve's road to inclusion should be used as any kind of precedent given how atypical it was. I really don't think the norm is for characters to endure such a protracted period of negotiation, and part of the reason for the length seems to be that Sakurai initially turned the character down.

The thing to glean from the situation is that Nintendo and Microsoft have existing lines of communication for Smash collaboration (though this was demonstrated beforehand with Banjo), and that Sakurai changes his mind, or is sometimes persuaded to (which we already knew).

People focus on the five-year aspect too much. It wasn't five years of active development, anyway. It was five years from first talks to final release. There could've been, and probably was, a long period where there was no progression whatsoever, and eventually they returned to the idea.
It feels good to see someone else think this. Too many people throw around "Negotiations started 5 years ago so that's when Steve was decided to be in Ultimate".

It's like, no. If Steve was decided to be in Ultimate then he'd have been in the base game. Chances are it's as you said, on and off discussions for 5 years until he was decided on in FP2 just like the rest of FP2's characters.

EA huh?

if I’m not mistaken Apex Legends is crazy popular in Japan... @Ayumi Tachibana can you confirm this?
Personally, I don't view an Apex Legends character happening even if it got popular in Japan. A Large part because I'm operating under the same belief of what happened in Smash 3DS/Wii U which is Xander only recording for the announcer once. "But he came back for Joker, he can do more lines for the announcer then". Problem with that is that it's something that only works in English and some Asian regions. Pretty much every EU country has their own announcer which would require a call back and with only 2 characters remaining, I do not see them being called back for one or two names to be read, especially if the list of names they all read from is as exhaustive as Xander makes it to be. To me, the cut off on characters is between the latter half of 2017 and very early 2018 and, with Apex coming out in 2019 (And late 2019 in Japan) I just don't see it as feasible.
 

MattX20

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Is anyone else here keeping their eyes on Ayumi Tachibana? After playing the remakes on the Switch, I get why fans liked her, and looking into the history of the series, the games, The Girl Who Stands Behind especially, have ranked consistently high on the best games of the Famicom and Super Famicom libraries.
 

Icedragonadam

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Is anyone else here keeping their eyes on Ayumi Tachibana? After playing the remakes on the Switch, I get why fans liked her, and looking into the history of the series, the games, The Girl Who Stands Behind especially, have ranked consistently high on the best games of the Famicom and Super Famicom libraries.
The main problem with her is that her lack of popularity outside Japan is what got her axed from development. She may possible be added in the next game if the sales of the remakes do well enough.
 

MattX20

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The main problem with her is that her lack of popularity outside Japan is what got her axed from development. She may possible be added in the next game if the sales of the remakes do well enough.
You're forgetting that a worldwide localization effort is something that would've needed to be decided early on in development. Keep in mind they were first announced to the general Japanese public on September 4th, 2019. Sakurai and the development team would ultimately know about this ahead of time, and remember, Nintendo of Japan and their marketing team are making the picks. Famicom Detective Club always had a strong Japanese fan following, with the games often ranking very high in popularity polls, and even top 10 for the Super Famicom in particular. Ayumi's a character that has been around for over 30 years and not your flavor of the month JRPG/Fire Emblem player avatar character.
 

Pillow

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You're forgetting that a worldwide localization effort is something that would've needed to be decided early on in development. Keep in mind they were first announced to the general Japanese public on September 4th, 2019. Sakurai and the development team would ultimately know about this ahead of time, and remember, Nintendo of Japan and their marketing team are making the picks. Famicom Detective Club always had a strong Japanese fan following, with the games often ranking very high in popularity polls, and even top 10 for the Super Famicom in particular. Ayumi's a character that has been around for over 30 years and not your flavor of the month JRPG/Fire Emblem player avatar character.
Not being flavor of the month is precisely the issue as far as first parties are concerned
 

Michael the Spikester

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Is anyone else here keeping their eyes on Ayumi Tachibana? After playing the remakes on the Switch, I get why fans liked her, and looking into the history of the series, the games, The Girl Who Stands Behind especially, have ranked consistently high on the best games of the Famicom and Super Famicom libraries.
More likely to be a Spirit Event.
 

MattX20

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Not being flavor of the month is precisely the issue as far as first parties are concerned
Legacy is often just as if not more important than flavor of the month status. If flavor of the month is all that mattered to Nintendo, then Mario, Zelda, and various other legacy characters wouldn't be in Smash at all.
 

Pillow

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Legacy is often just as if not more important than flavor of the month status. If flavor of the month is all that mattered to Nintendo, then Mario, Zelda, and various other legacy characters wouldn't be in Smash at all.
Yes, but you’re comparing Ayumi’s legacy to Mario and Zelda like c’mon. I’m not saying Ayumi has no merits or shot of getting into Smash, but people really overstate her significance. Her games were well received in Japan, but even with the remakes she’s still completely unknown by Western audiences and her series has only had 2 mainline games.
 

MattX20

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Yes, but you’re comparing Ayumi’s legacy to Mario and Zelda like c’mon. I’m not saying Ayumi has no merits or shot of getting into Smash, but people really overstate her significance. Her games were well received in Japan, but even with the remakes she’s still completely unknown by Western audiences and her series has only had 2 mainline games.
I'm just pointing out flavor of the month mentality is not what Nintendo is all about. Pokemon and FE are the obvious outliers for this, but they tend to put legacy first and foremost to the front more often than not
 

Shroob

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I personally feel that if any 1st party characters are to get in, they're going to be from Switch titles, which, considering our current 3, Byleth, Min Min, and P/M, that's not a horribly unlikely situation I'd wager tbh.


Ayumi definitely fits under that category, but I dunno. I don't think she's impossible, in fact, compared to other 1st party characters, I'd even say she's got a better than decent shot, but it's not something that I'd personally bank on tbh.
 
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