Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SharkLord]

I know i'm going to sound biased ('cuz i want Rash in smash DUH), but speaking of a third Microsoft rep, he seems the most appropriate choice now (if there'll be a third rep). Shares good history with Nintendo, one of the most recognizable beat em' up franchises (smash doesn't have a beat em' up rep yet) and an cartoonic anthropomorphic fighting frog encapsulates perfectly the essence of Smash Bros.

Master Chief is a HUGE icon, but Halo shares zero history with Nintendo and he comes from a FPS game (not sure if Nintendo really want to push a FPS character in smash).

Doomguy was deconfirmed by DOOM devs, and maybe Nintendo thinks DOOM way too brutal to be represented in smash.

Conker is dead.

Also Perfect Dark.

A Gears of War rep is not happening.

A Killer Instict rep is possible. Not as violent as MK and has awesome pieces of music, but again, Battletoads seems more suitable for a smash rep considering the nature of the game.

What do you think?

I don't think Nintendo really cares about connections that much anymore. We've had games like Street Fighter and Metal Gear which aren't readily associated with Nintendo, and sub-series which had barely any Nintendo presence at the time like Persona 5 and Final Fantasy 7. While Halo's light on Nintendo connections, the sheer size of the series means it can't be ruled out just yet.

I don't think Nintendo's stressed about FPS games. Heck, they've even allowed and encouraged an FPS adaptation of their property with Metroid Prime. Ruling someone out because of a genre just seems needlessly selective.

 

[cothero]

Than Battletoads? Yes.

Jesus Christ...

Well... At least we're back on topic.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Kid Icarus deserves its own anime, especially being NetFlix exclusive like how Castlevania is.

I don't want a kid Icarus animated series on Netflix unless it is an adult show like Castlevania

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I know i'm going to sound biased ('cuz i want Rash in smash DUH), but speaking of a third Microsoft rep, he seems the most appropriate choice now (if there'll be a third rep). Shares good history with Nintendo, one of the most recognizable beat em' up franchises (smash doesn't have a beat em' up rep yet) and an cartoonic anthropomorphic fighting frog encapsulates perfectly the essence of Smash Bros.

Master Chief is a HUGE icon, but Halo shares zero history with Nintendo and he comes from a FPS game (not sure if Nintendo really want to push a FPS character in smash).

Doomguy was deconfirmed by DOOM devs, and maybe Nintendo thinks DOOM way too brutal to be represented in smash.

Conker is dead.

Also Perfect Dark.

A Gears of War rep is not happening.

A Killer Instict rep is possible. Not as violent as MK and has awesome pieces of music, but again, Battletoads seems more suitable for a smash rep considering the nature of the game.

What do you think?

Ori: “Am I a joke to you?”

the Ori games are ART. God I’d even take an Ori PreMiium Brawler with Restoring the Light, Facing the Dark as a track

 

[cashregister9]

This talk about a Kid Icarus anime reminded me of this

This was cool, I wish Nintendo did more with it

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't think a lack of a connection with Nintendo and their consoles can be used against characters, but I also don't think it should be dismissed entirely.

I mean, it's not a coincidence that Bayo, one of the more niche third-parties, just so happens to be funded by Nintendo. We got Banjo and Steve after relations between Nintendo and Microsoft improved to the point where several Xbox exclusives came to the Switch. There's also Pac-Man getting in while Bandai-Namco helped make Smash 4, and Hero being blatantly used by SE to promote DQXIS on the Switch.

So yeah, while I don't think we can rule out another Joker, I also think we should keep in mind that a fair number of third-parties got in because their franchises or the companies who owned them had some type of connection with Nintendo and/or an incentive to want to add a character.

 

[Technomage]

Ruling someone out because of a genre just seems needlessly selective.

Unless the genre is "hentai game."

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I know i'm going to sound biased ('cuz i want Rash in smash DUH), but speaking of a third Microsoft rep, he seems the most appropriate choice now (if there'll be a third rep). Shares good history with Nintendo, one of the most recognizable beat em' up franchises (smash doesn't have a beat em' up rep yet) and an cartoonic anthropomorphic fighting frog encapsulates perfectly the essence of Smash Bros.

Master Chief is a HUGE icon, but Halo shares zero history with Nintendo and he comes from a FPS game (not sure if Nintendo really want to push a FPS character in smash).

Doomguy was deconfirmed by DOOM devs, and maybe Nintendo thinks DOOM way too brutal to be represented in smash.

Conker is dead.

Also Perfect Dark.

A Gears of War rep is not happening.

A Killer Instict rep is possible. Not as violent as MK and has awesome pieces of music, but again, Battletoads seems more suitable for a smash rep considering the nature of the game.

What do you think?

Master Chief is one of my current predictions who the last two are.

The other being a swordfighter character (Adol, Chosen Undead, Dovahkiin, Euden, Nightmare, Yuri, etc.)

 

[SharkLord]

Unless the genre is "hentai game."

To be fair I think the, erm... Nature of games means they're simply too niche for Nintendo to really consider them anyways... Which is basically what you said anyways but with an extra step

Master Chief is one of my current predictions who the last two are.

The other being a swordfighter character (Adol, Chosen Undead, Dovahkiin, Euden, Nightmare, Yuri, etc.)

Y'know, I feel like you've said this a lot already

 

[N3ON]

I don't think a lack of a connection with Nintendo and their consoles can be used against characters, but I also don't think it should be dismissed entirely.

I mean, it's not a coincidence that Bayo, one of the more niche third-parties, just so happens to be funded by Nintendo. We got Banjo and Steve after relations between Nintendo and Microsoft improved to the point where several Xbox exclusives came to the Switch. There's also Pac-Man getting in while Bandai-Namco helped make Smash 4, and Hero being blatantly used by SE to promote DQXIS on the Switch.

So yeah, while I don't think we can rule out another Joker, I also think we should keep in mind that a fair number of third-parties got in because their franchises or the companies who owned them had some type of connection with Nintendo and/or an incentive to want to add a character.

Ok, but there aren't other series in the position that Bayo is in. If there were, our expectations would adjust accordingly. And also, Namco's involvement helped get Pac-Man in, but since then... it's been pretty quiet on that front. More over, that again is a special situation that would be taken into account if it applied to another company. And a stipulation for Hero's implementation was probably to focus on DQ11, but Nintendo were the ones who approached Square; the character almost definitely would've been tried for regardless of what was happening with the newest game, because DQ is DQ.

Plus, we already spend far too much time believing there will be another "DQ situation" when it comes to promotion. I mean every time there's a new notable third-party game someone thinks as much... for all the good that's done.

And Nintendo's relationship with Microsoft simply improved to the state of not being entirely devoid of cooperation. The only potential parallel there would be Sony or Valve or something. All the other relevant third-parties already cooperate with Nintendo in some regard.

I agree special situations call for special consideration, but with the exception of Hero, these are all unique circumstances which don't apply to most characters or companies. If they are to recur, that would affect our perspective. But Nintendo didn't adopt Crash Bandicoot; Sega isn't developing Smash; Sony hasn't gone from rival to collaborator. Most of your precedents aren't applicable anywhere else.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Anyway I wanna also talk about the possibility of the double dip being a fourth Square Enix rep instead

And in this essay I’ll explain why it should be Neku Sakuraba from the hit Nintendo DS game The World Ends With You...

 

[Cosmic77]

Ok, but there aren't other series in the position that Bayo is in. If there were, our expectations would adjust accordingly. And also, Namco's involvement helped get Pac-Man in, but since then... it's been pretty quiet on that front. More over, that again is a special situation that would be taken into account if it applied to another company. And a stipulation for Hero's implementation was probably to focus on DQ11, but Nintendo were the ones who approached Square; the character almost definitely would've been tried for regardless of what was happening with the newest game, because DQ is DQ.

Plus, we already spend far too much time believing there will be another "DQ situation" when it comes to promotion. I mean every time there's a new notable third-party game someone thinks as much... for all the good that's done.

And Nintendo's relationship with Microsoft simply improved to the state of not being entirely devoid of cooperation. The only potential parallel there would be Sony or Valve or something. All the other relevant third-parties already cooperate with Nintendo in some regard.

I agree special situations call for special consideration, but with the exception of Hero, these are all unique circumstances which don't apply to most characters or companies. If they are to recur, that would affect our perspective. But Nintendo didn't adopt Crash Bandicoot; Sega isn't developing Smash; Sony hasn't gone from rival to collaborator. Most of your precedents aren't applicable anywhere else.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to argue against here.

Third-parties benefit from having some type of relationship or connection with Nintendo. That could be in the form of a franchise having a long history with Nintendo consoles, improving relationships between companies, or Nintendo themselves backing a franchise. If they have any of these things in their repertoire, then I'd say that puts them in a decent position to be chosen.

Obviously that's not the deciding factor, as seen by characters like Joker, but I don't think it makes sense to act like characters who lack at least a somewhat decent connection with Nintendo are on the same level as those who do have one.

 

[SNEKeater]

if the switch pro rumors are true, we might get an Automata port. If it can run on a PS4, it could run on a Switch.

I guess it could run on Switch, but it better be not a lazy port. The PS4 version has some problems. Even the PC version, for some reason.
Not because it's a very demanding game but I guess that either 1. The game is programmed in such a way that makes it very hard to run well or 2. They were super lazy while doing the game.

Or both options.

Normally I'd say Automata could run on Switch with some sacrifices, but in this case it would probably require a lot of time and resources and unless Nintendo approaches Square or makes a special deal with them, I don't think Square is going to do it.
I mean the game should run at 60fps, it's not a case where you can sacrifice that and go with 30fps, considering that Nier is a fast paced action game. Otherwise I think it would be more doable.

 

[Louie G.]

Even if we factor in that most third-party characters still maintain some substantial connection to Nintendo (which I think is true)... assuming this is the reason we're talking about it, Master Chief is absolutely a big enough deal to transcend that. I mean at least over like, Battletoads or Conker - Microsoft doesn't really have much left who can match Banjo or Steve aside from Chief himself. The sheer size of Halo and the magnitude of adding Xbox's mascot would be enough for a visible profit to be made on Nintendo's end. It's great PR, brings eyes toward the game and he'll sell like crazy.

And that's ignoring the very real and very likely possibility of Master Chief Collection on Switch being announced by the end of the year.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Unless the genre is "hentai game."

I thought we were done with the horny talk...

 

[SNEKeater]

And about Chief, I always said it, he doesn't need any presence on the Switch to be in Smash. Technically that is the same for any third party, as Joker proved, but you get my point.

Same case with Sony's characters. Unlikely as hell but having Kratos, for example, would be such a big deal that literally everything else wouldn't matter.

 

[DanganZilla5]

My tier list of most wanted Microsoft characters goes like this:

S tier: Master Chief (One of my most wanted)

A tier: Killer Instinct - great designs and a kickass soundtrack

B tier - Battletoads, Conker

C tier - Everyone else due to unfamiliarity

I'm not counting Doomguy or Dragonborn because while they are Microsoft reps now, that wasn't the case during negotiations for this pass. But if they were on this list, they would both easily be S tier.

 

[Gazorpazorpfield]

And about Chief, I always said it, he doesn't need any presence on the Switch to be in Smash. Technically that is the same for any third party, as Joker proved, but you get my point.

Same case with Sony's characters. Unlikely as hell but having Kratos, for example, would be such a big deal that literally everything else wouldn't matter.

I appreciate you bringing up Sony characters when most people dismiss them so readily. Would they really be that hesitent to let Nintendo pay them to advertise their character? Though I'm unsure who the Sony character in question would be; Gravity Rush is niche and also dead now, while God of War and HZD both sold poorly in Japan from what I can tell. It's hard to make the case for any particular character of theirs, but I don't see why it couldn't happen from the business side of things. At the very least I'd be interested in seeing more open-minded discussion about the PlayStation crew, barring some ironclad reason they can't be included that I'm forgetting

 

[Technomage]

I appreciate you bringing up Sony characters when most people dismiss them so readily. Would they really be that hesitent to let Nintendo pay them to advertise their character? Though I'm unsure who the Sony character in question would be; Gravity Rush is niche and also dead now, while God of War and HZD both sold poorly in Japan from what I can tell. It's hard to make the case for any particular character of theirs, but I don't see why it couldn't happen from the business side of things. At the very least I'd be interested in seeing more open-minded discussion about the PlayStation crew, barring some ironclad reason they can't be included that I'm forgetting

There's a new Ratchet and Clank game coming out; would Ratchet have better chances?

 

[DanganZilla5]

I appreciate you bringing up Sony characters when most people dismiss them so readily. Would they really be that hesitent to let Nintendo pay them to advertise their character? Though I'm unsure who the Sony character in question would be; Gravity Rush is niche and also dead now, while God of War and HZD both sold poorly in Japan from what I can tell. It's hard to make the case for any particular character of theirs, but I don't see why it couldn't happen from the business side of things. At the very least I'd be interested in seeing more open-minded discussion about the PlayStation crew, barring some ironclad reason they can't be included that I'm forgetting

With Kratos in fortnite i could now see them not rejecting getting one of their characters in Smash. It's just that Sony is being arrogant ****** right now so they have limited connections with the other companies and they barely have worked with Nintendo before. It's more of a question of "Why would Nintendo choose a character owned by Sony?" I mean yeah characters like Kratos and Nathan Drake are iconic but Nintendo is so much closer to plenty of other companies that I would be surprised if they decided to go with Sony of all companies.

 

[N3ON]

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to argue against here.

Third-parties benefit from having some type of relationship or connection with Nintendo. That could be in the form of a franchise having a long history with Nintendo consoles, improving relationships between companies, or Nintendo themselves backing a franchise. If they have any of these things in their repertoire, then I'd say that puts them in a decent position to be chosen.

Obviously that's not the deciding factor, as seen by characters like Joker, but I don't think it makes sense to act like characters who lack at least a somewhat decent connection with Nintendo are on the same level as those who do have one.

Third-parties do benefit from having some relationship or connection with Nintendo, but it doesn't scale. The relationship being closer doesn't make the character likelier, unless they're so close that Nintendo treats them as a first-party. But that's a pool limited pretty much just to Bayo. Most of the characters with associations closest to Nintendo got in because the fans' efforts on polls and ballots, not Nintendo independently seeking them out. Most of the third-parties Nintendo has chosen without our influence really don't have a connection to themselves closer than to Sony or Microsoft.

And so, yeah, it helps to have a working relationship, but the only companies that don't are Sony and Valve. The companies with the closest relationship to Nintendo are probably KT and Namco, and... look. Koei-Tecmo develops multiple first-party titles for Nintendo, they have joint ownership of multiple IP, they have perfectly plausible candidates, yet they have nothing. Namco has multiple series which have crossed over with Nintendo's own, they develop multiple high-profile first-party games like Smash, Mario Kart and Pokemon, Nintendo actually owns a percent of the company, and they've not increased their count past one.

Like I said, the examples you used aren't ones that apply to your typical candidate, thus they have very limited relevance. They don't bolster the overall argument, they just illustrate the possibility of unique examples that we will account for on a per-case basis. I agree that having a working relationship with Nintendo is probably of importance, but that's a low bar, and past that, under normal circumstances, closeness seems arbitrary.

 

[SharkLord]

I appreciate you bringing up Sony characters when most people dismiss them so readily. Would they really be that hesitent to let Nintendo pay them to advertise their character? Though I'm unsure who the Sony character in question would be; Gravity Rush is niche and also dead now, while God of War and HZD both sold poorly in Japan from what I can tell. It's hard to make the case for any particular character of theirs, but I don't see why it couldn't happen from the business side of things. At the very least I'd be interested in seeing more open-minded discussion about the PlayStation crew, barring some ironclad reason they can't be included that I'm forgetting

The big question mark here is the fact that Nintendo and Sony haven't really collaborated much - As in, porting games to each other's consoles and such. That casts some doubt on a potential Sony character, since if they haven't been communicating much before then we're not sure if they'd be able to start communicating in time for a big project like Smash, especially since they're big companies and competitors in the console market, which would probably make things a bit trickier to negotiate. Keep in mind that Microsoft is the outlier here; Nintendo and Sony aren't quite as outwardly friendly to fellow console makers as MS is.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sakurai POTD

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Mother 3 been popping up a lot lately....

 

[Icedragonadam]

Sakurai POTD

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Same energy.

 

[Gnateb]

It's an impossibility, but just for fun today, I was imaging what a Machinarium challenger pack could be like.

Machinarium is one of my all time favorites. It permanently altered my taste in video games, to the point where I now value atmosphere and art direction almost as much as gameplay.

My dream would be that "The Wall" is the stage, and it comes with this track, completely untouched:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

I know it's far too mellow, but it's my dream. I think the better option would be this, outside of the oil bar:

The band can be a stage cameo, like on KoF. It's also a walkoff. The main song could be a remix of this:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

I apologize if this is too off topic, but I'm making up a full challenger pack concept (moveset, stage, music, etc.) for Machinarium, and just wanted to get some thoughts.

It's all purely for fun. This is like making a concept for Spongebob or something

 

[SharkLord]

It's an impossibility, but just for fun today, I was imaging what a Machinarium challenger pack could be like.

Machinarium is one of my all time favorites. It permanently altered my taste in video games, to the point where I now value atmosphere and art direction almost as much as gameplay.

My dream would be that "The Wall" is the stage, and it comes with this track, completely untouched:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

View attachment 313597

I know it's far too mellow, but it's my dream. I think the better option would be this, outside if the oil bar:
View attachment 313598
The band can be a stage cameo, like on KoF. It's also a walkoff. The main song could be a remix of this:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

I apologize if this is too off topic, but I'm making up a full challenger pack concept (moveset, stage, music, etc.) for Machinarium, and just wanted to get some thoughts.

Interesting...

Though, I don't really know what Mechanarium is. A quick rundown of what's going on would be nice.

 

[N3ON]

I appreciate you bringing up Sony characters when most people dismiss them so readily. Would they really be that hesitent to let Nintendo pay them to advertise their character? Though I'm unsure who the Sony character in question would be; Gravity Rush is niche and also dead now, while God of War and HZD both sold poorly in Japan from what I can tell. It's hard to make the case for any particular character of theirs, but I don't see why it couldn't happen from the business side of things. At the very least I'd be interested in seeing more open-minded discussion about the PlayStation crew, barring some ironclad reason they can't be included that I'm forgetting

It could happen, it just seems very unlikely because Nintendo and Sony have a relationship typical of competitors, wherein working together is limited pretty much to very very general gaming practices that Microsoft will also probably be involved in like lootbox regulation and piracy.

That's actually the norm for rivals, not what Microsoft does. But Microsoft is also making big moves to being a platform-agnostic gaming-service, which Sony isn't. So not anticipating cooperation between the two is really just expecting the status quo to endure. It's not like Nintendo would ever give Microsoft or Sony one of their big characters for a game exclusive to another console.

And how much you want to believe the bad blood from two and a half decades ago remains is also something some people may factor in, though that would just be speculative.

 

[Gnateb]

Interesting...

Though, I don't really know what Mechanarium is. A quick rundown of what's going on would be nice.

Oh sure, sorry. It's a 2009 point and click puzzle adventure game, developed by Czech studio Amanita Design. It actually won a couple of (smalltime) awards for it's soundtrack and world design.

At the time, I kinda hated point and click games. This game changed my mind, sort of. They've made games since, like Samorost 3 and Creaks, but none live up to Machinarium in my opinion.

The thought of a Machinarium pack popped into my head when Josef, the main character, was revealed as an assist in Fraymakers. His presence alone has sold me on that game.

 

[SharkLord]

Oh sure, sorry. It's a 2009 point and click puzzle adventure game, developed by Czech studio Amanita Design. It actually won a couple of (smalltime) awards for it's soundtrack and world design.

At the time, I kinda hated point and click games. This game changed my mind, sort of. They've made games since, like Samorost 3 and Creaks, but none live up to Machinarium in my opinion.

The thought of a Machinarium pack popped into my head when Josef, the main character, was revealed as an assist in Fraymakers. His presence alone has sold me on that game.

Interesting. Curious as to how the point-and-click puzzles would be translated into a fighting game.

 

[Gnateb]

Interesting. Curious as to how the point-and-click puzzles would be translated into a fighting game.

Yeah, I'm curious to see how it would work. Despite the robotic nature of the main character, the original game still managed to make everyone expressive without any dialogue. With basic body language covered, a gimmick is still hard to think of.

The way Josef stretches to solve puzzles could be cool. He can also put puzzle pieces into his mouth:

I have a lot of nostalgia for the game, and I haven't played it in years, so I might not be remembering everything correctly. I have it on Switch, though, so I could replay it to see his moves.

I'll post the moveset somewhere on Smashboards when it's done.

 

[Cosmic77]

Third-parties do benefit from having some relationship or connection with Nintendo, but it doesn't scale. The relationship being closer doesn't make the character likelier, unless they're so close that Nintendo treats them as a first-party. But that's a pool limited pretty much just to Bayo. Most of the characters with associations closest to Nintendo got in because the fans' efforts on polls and ballots, not Nintendo independently seeking them out. Most of the third-parties Nintendo has chosen without our influence really don't have a connection to themselves closer than to Sony or Microsoft.

And so, yeah, it helps to have a working relationship, but the only companies that don't are Sony and Valve. The companies with the closest relationship to Nintendo are probably KT and Namco, and... look. Koei-Tecmo develops multiple first-party titles for Nintendo, they have joint ownership of multiple IP, they have perfectly plausible candidates, yet they have nothing. Namco has multiple series which have crossed over with Nintendo's own, they develop multiple high-profile first-party games like Smash, Mario Kart and Pokemon, Nintendo actually owns a percent of the company, and they've not increased their count past one.

Like I said, the examples you used aren't ones that apply to your typical candidate, thus they have very limited relevance. They don't bolster the overall argument, they just illustrate the possibility of unique examples that we will account for on a per-case basis. I agree that having a working relationship with Nintendo is probably of importance, but that's a low bar, and past that, under normal circumstances, closeness seems arbitrary.

Yeah, I still don't understand what you're disagreeing with, or if you're even disagreeing with my main point at all. Obviously input from fans helped quite a few third-parties, but no, that's not something that can be applied across the board. Besides, is there any way to disprove that a long history/good relationship with Nintendo in addition to fan demand got these characters in? These characters get in for a variety of reasons, not one reason and one alone.

To put it simply, it's good for a character's company or franchise to be associated with Nintendo to some degree. Does that mean KT and any other company that's close to Nintendo is guaranteed a character? No. Does that mean Master Chief and/or Kratos will definitely get in Smash before a Monster Hunter character? Not necessarily. There are characters who have gotten in Smash without a connection, but that shouldn't be used to dismiss connections altogether (just like K. Rool shouldn't automatically make other dormant characters just as likely as those that've made recent appearances). That's all I'm trying to say.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Anyway I wanna also talk about the possibility of the double dip being a fourth Square Enix rep instead

Sure.

I'd love to get Crono, but I'd be satisfied with a Mii.

I thought we were done with the horny talk...

I decide when I'm done!

Though, I don't really know what Mechanarium is. A quick rundown of what's going on would be nice.

It's a point-and-click puzzle game where you play a trashcan.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Unless the genre is "hentai game."

With how over the top my MW’s franchise gets in regards to the raunchy content, you’ be forgiven for thinking it actually is that way. Good thing it’s just a good ol’ hack-‘n’-slash without anything bared in full, just implications and a [EXPLETIVE]ton of creative censorship.

 

[jadetheseer]

I was just thinking about it and imagine how much of a giant curveball it’d be if we got Zero as one of the last DLC characters. A lot of people are thinking that we wouldn’t get a CAPCOM character bc of the Mii costumes, but even if we did nobody would expect another Mega Man character. I would be all for it especially for the Mega Man X music that we have a huge lack of but I feel like a lot of people would be really upset about it.

(honestly I just want another CAPCOM character idc who it is there’s just so many good choices)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Unless the genre is "hentai game."

And only if that's entirely the point of the series. So, not like Fate which only had somewhat of an eroge as the first version(and was censored since and for future products as well). If anything, an issue with Fate is terribly fanservicey designs and stuff that would never be thrown into Smash regardless of whether it was an eroge or not.

So... not really an issue cause those games would have zero chance of being considered. Games that have sexual content clearly are not the same thing(I.E. Bayonetta) and that's not including that Nintendo also has associated with that stuff, legitimately having Love Hotels before(...not well made ones, but still). Their basic response is to censor a lot of stuff, not ignore the games. Another fun fact is that Nintendo did outright promote Bayonetta... in Playboy. So obviously that type of content isn't something they actually shy away from alone. It's just logical they avoid it in certain games either due to rating purposes or cause it doesn't fit anyway.

Albeit, eroge and hentai game are pretty much different categories too.

 

[Pacack]

And only if that's entirely the point of the series. So, not like Fate which only had somewhat of an eroge as the first version(and was censored since and for future products as well). If anything, an issue with Fate is terribly fanservicey designs and stuff that would never be thrown into Smash regardless of whether it was an eroge or not.

So... not really an issue cause those games would have zero chance of being considered. Games that have sexual content clearly are not the same thing(I.E. Bayonetta) and that's not including that Nintendo also has associated with that stuff, legitimately having Love Hotels before(...not well made ones, but still). Their basic response is to censor a lot of stuff, not ignore the games. Another fun fact is that Nintendo did outright promote Bayonetta... in Playboy. So obviously that type of content isn't something they actually shy away from alone. It's just logical they avoid it in certain games either due to rating purposes or cause it doesn't fit anyway.

Albeit, eroge and hentai game are pretty much different categories too.

Respectfully, this is one of the worst takes I've had the pleasure of seeing on these forums.

Smash Bros. Ultimate is an E10+ game. While censorship can go a long way, characters from games defined by having explicit sexual content will absolutely not be in Smash. Take the word of the director, the game is "for good boys and girls."

 

[Lionfranky]

Microsoft allowed Rare to publish games on Nintendo DS even after acquisition. And people from Nintendo America HQ moved to MS HQ, so there was already relationship going on even before Minecraft. It took this long relationship to reach this point. Sony hasn't demonstrated anything remotely close to this. So, skepticism toward Sony and Nintendo collaboration is warranted for now.

 

[7NATOR]

So I may have come to a realization. Sephiroth is a curveball in speculation because not many people were expecting him, and he broke some established rules, like Villain DLC and 2nd Unique Rep for 3rd party

However I think Sephiroth may have done something bigger. He may also have hurt the Assist Trophy argument. and as for how...


Base game was not made with DLC in Mind

Lots of Smash Bros. tidbits from Sakurai - DLC talk, Goku unlikely, not thinking about another ballot, more - Nintendo Everything

DLC was only approved of sometime after January of 2018, which by that time the Base game was far into development. While there may have been discussions on potential DLC, the Base game was not made with DLC in Mind, meaning the base game was made in mind that the base game was gonna be it. This includes the Negotiations for the 3rd party characters and roles, which brings us the the next point

It took 2 DLC Passes for Sephiroth to be in Smash

a Legendary character like Sephiroth had to wait not only past the base game, but FP1 in order to be DLC. There is an argument that Sephiroth, along with Steve may have always been planned to be added as DLC even if a Full FP2 was not a thing. even with that being the case, it's still a fact that Sephiroth and Steve both missed the base game, and if DLC was not a thing at all, then both of them would have just have to wait until the Next Smash game


What does this have to do with Assist Trophies

This does not apply to all Assist Trophies, as I do think Assist Trophies have different circumstances from each other. this especially includes the Veteran Assist Trophies

Not every Veteran Assist returns, as we could see with Tingle, Saki, and Magnus being absent from Assist role as an example. One thing you noticed is that the Assists kept, along with some of the new Assists tended to be really popular or important characters in their own right. This was also a big reason why Isaac returned as an Assist after Missing Smash 4

So when taking into account how the Base game roster could have been the final roster we'd get in general, the Absence of certain popular Assists from their role would just be weird. This is especially true for 3rd party Assists, since they have negotiations tied to them

What separates a veteran party Assist and someone like Sephiroth, is that Sephiroth has never made an appearance in Smash up until he became playable, so his absence up until then was not something to take note of, meanwhile with any Veteran Assist Trophy, their absence would be a weird omission. In the case of 3rd parties, the Veteran Assist Trophy would have to be negotiated very early on, so if DLC is decided later, they already did negotiate for the character in Assist Role back during Base game

And with New 3rd party Assists, they still would have to be negotiated early on when DLC is not a factor into Development, so if they want to showcase these characters in a more prominent role, Assist is the way to go.

Why weren't the Assists Promoted in the base roster

Like said above, Sephiroth had to wait until FP2 to become playable. Not every character can be made playable at a specific point of time. Some characters have to wait, despite having all the reasons to be made playable

This is especially true for 3rd parties since there is more that goes into making them Playable characters, has the 3rd party needs to be involved in the process of how the character is made

Bomberman

Bomberman is not playable, but he showcases how they Assists can have upgrade in role. Bomberman was likely negotiated around the time the base game was being decided, and the negotiation for His Assist and Mii Costume were likely different

What happens if there wasn't any DLC

There's a reason I mention Only Sephiroth and not Steve. Unlike Steve who's attached to a new franchise in Minecraft, Sephiroth comes from the same Universe as Cloud in FF7. If Sephiroth had to wait till next game because there wasn't gonna be any DLC, They likely would have just added him as Spirit or something like that, along with potentially some of the other content like the other FF7 Spirits, or some of the music

Is this Shadow related?

Yes it is Shadow Related. Shadow is one of 3 Veteran Assist Trophies, the others being Ghosts and Gray Fox. However Shadow is the main focus because of the merits he has to join Smash

In the case of his Assist Trophy, Seeing how constricted the base roster was, and how even Sephiroth couldn't be made into a Playable character in the Base roster, it's likely that Shadow couldn't make it in also. However unlike Sephiroth, Shadow has been an Assist in all 3 games Assists have existed in, and even if Shadow was being thought of as DLC, they Couldn't just remove his Assist. not only would it be a weird Omission since Shadow is a Popular and Important character and has no reason to be removed as an Assist, but they likely already negotiated his Assist role before base game development started and before DLC was a factor

The only way Shadow could have been made playable in base roster is through an Echo Fighter...however while Shadow theoretically works as an Echo, like in the case of Isabelle who was a popular Echo Suggestion, Shadow has his own merits for his own Fighter, and there's a very good chance that a Echo Shadow was turned down not only because Shadow has all the reasons to have substantial development time put into him, but Also Because Sega likely wouldn't work with the Echo idea, since there be alot of sacrifice on Shadow's individuality to be made an Echo

Put it like this. Shadow has comparable merits to Sephiroth, who was added as playable in FP2.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Respectfully, this is one of the worst takes I've had the pleasure of seeing on these forums.

Smash Bros. Ultimate is an E10+ game. While censorship can go a long way, characters from games defined by having explicit sexual content will absolutely not be in Smash. Take the word of the director, the game is "for good boys and girls."

Then you missed the entire point because that's not remotely what I said in any way.

Also, Bayonetta is defined by her sexual stuff(which again, Nintendo hard promoted) and still was reduced to avoid that issue, so that's not true either. Clearly yes, characters that are from games defined by their sexual content can get in. Which is why I didn't make that take(that you think I'm saying). She's not from a hentai game either even then. An eroge just has it as a small part. A hentai game itself is, get this, purely just about sex. That's why they're different genres.

Nintendo isn't going to avoid an eroge just cause it's the genre. That doesn't matter. It matters what can even be taken from it that works within the context of Smash or any other game it'd crossover with. Which was the actual point I made the entire time. A lot of visual novels, which can easily have stuff in Smash, also are eroge-related(which is why they aren't very different genres. Most eroges are just visual novels with a slight bit of sexual content anyway). But just like Fate, many actually have usable Gameplay Elements that define the game as well. If not ten times more important in this case. Since Fate is all about the gameplay and just had sexual stuff in literally the first game alone(in comparison to the rest of the series which at most had a little bit of fanservice or at worst bad designs that pretty much are widely disliked anyway).

Microsoft allowed Rare to publish games on Nintendo DS even after acquisition. And people from Nintendo America HQ moved to MS HQ, so there was already relationship going on even before Minecraft. It took this long relationship to reach this point. Sony hasn't demonstrated anything remotely close to this. So, skepticism toward Sony and Nintendo collaboration is warranted for now.

On the other hand, Banjo-Kazooie pretty much had multiple factors, but fan demand was a core thing. This was a character constantly wanted anyway, so it makes sense Phil Spencer responded to the idea. While the character wouldn't be less of an icon even if it didn't start as a Nintendo series(due to how big of a deal the series was for how innovative it was and increasing the collectathon factor after Super Mario 64), the fact it did is why people cared about them being in Smash in particular. It also helped Microsoft still wanted to use them overall, even without new games, via Rare Replay(and also made new merchandise later on to either promote Smash or due to Smash helping it or something like that. The timing made it clear Smash related to it. The other is that it's not a coincidence that Sakurai promoted Xbox either. It was kind of obvious that Microsoft wanted something out of it, and seeing as how BK isn't going to be playable on the Switch, it was an easy way to get a small deal on their end. So telling people to essentially get Rare Replay? Easy idea that makes them say yes even more. Phil wanting to say yes doesn't mean it's good for business. He likes the idea. But the company itself has to also see it as a good thing. That, and Minecraft paved the way, but nonetheless BK is full of many factors. If it wasn't on Rare Replay, the character might've not even gotten in. It's still possible, but I have my doubts, especially when it was clear the character being used was important enough to be advertised like an active product).

 

[osby]

Are we still talking about Fate? That series didn't have a racy game since 2004 and that version wasn't even officially made its way overseas or re-released without censoring. Grand Order and other games regularly make collaborations with family-friendly brands, including Wendys of all things.

I don't think we're getting a Fate character, at all. But if Nintendo is fine with Pyra and Mythra's artist doing NSFW art or Little Mac's voice actor doing voice-over for an eroge game in the past, I doubt they'll draw a hard line at Fate.