Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Golden Icarus]

If they didn't arrange the show-stopper for E3, I'd think they're being saved for a big ending. The megatons are always arranged to be shown off at E3 (Aside from 2014's E3, which is kind of an oddball, all things considered)

I don’t even think E3 2014 is an exception tbh. Pac-Man definitely qualifies as a big reveal in my eyes. At that time, he was only our 4th third party character ever, and our 2nd third party newcomer in Smash 4 (after Mega Man, who of course was also revealed at an E3). I think the fact that he was so predictable made his reveal feel somewhat lukewarm, but I’m sure that he was at the very least intended to be an “E3 showstopper.” He’s ****ing Pac-Man.

When looking at Smash 4’s newcomers, there were a lot of weirdos. Bowser Jr., Duck Hunt, Wii Fit...There was Little Mac, who was pretty popular among Smash fans, but didn’t really have massive appeal. Shulk and Robin were both popular, but were way too niche to be seen as showstoppers. In retrospect, Pac-Man was probably the most “showstopping” newcomer Smash 4 had after Mega Man, which makes me pretty confident in believing that he was always intended to be one of the big E3 reveals.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I like the claims that E3 being big reveals are bull in retrospect and how people expecting something big are being ridiculous but even if we don't count Pac-Man, 2014 had Miis and amiibo, a new toyline, and Palutena. Do people just not remember Palutena being one of the biggest requests for Smash 4 in Japan alongside being very popular here in the west? That'd be like saying Diddy was an incredibly soso addition back in the day

 

[Dinoman96]

I like the claims that E3 being big reveals are bull in retrospect and how people expecting something big are being ridiculous but even if we don't count Pac-Man, 2014 had Miis and amiibo, a new toyline, and Palutena. Do people just not remember Palutena being one of the biggest requests for Smash 4 in Japan alongside being very popular here in the west? That'd be like saying Diddy was an incredibly soso addition back in the day

People really don't remember that much about Smash 4 anyways lol. That whole era is like a blur to most people at this point.

Hence why you still have people say that Geno is one of the most consistently requested characters since like Melee...even though there was indeed a big lull in his active online fandom during most of Smash 4. Of course, most people forget that.

 

[Bobthealligator]

But Terry and Sol aren't Shotos? Shoto refers to Shotokan, a Karate style

Shotokan - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Terry's moves are improvised by fighting in the streets and half of Sol's buttons have him swing a giant lighter around. I think you mean not wanting a more basic fighter from the series, but in case of GG, Sol's not designed as an allrounder but an aggresive rushdown character who can also do this dumb ****
View attachment 312628
I get preferences when GG's got such a memorable cast but if Sol's considered basic, he'd be ridiculous in Smash

That's the etymology of the term, but I was referring to shotos as a fighting game archetype, which are the Jack of All trades, All-rounder fighters, which Sol and Terry are. I'm not saying they're boring, just it might be nice to see some other aspects of traditional fighters represented for a change.

 

[CureParfait]

I have a question to pose to everyone that I feel might become relevant soon.

Imagine E3 comes around, we get one character, and they aren't a big reveal (I'll leave it up to you to decide what that entails). Who or what do you predict for FP11 then?

Reimu, an Arc Systems rep, another first party, or a Dungeon Fighter rep.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I have no idea why, but I have the Bayblade theme stuck in my head

??? Why'd you post something that had nothing to do with the thread?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

??? Why'd you post something that had nothing to do with the thread?

OH i thought this was the social, oops

I have a question to pose to everyone that I feel might become relevant soon.

Imagine E3 comes around, we get one character, and they aren't a big reveal (I'll leave it up to you to decide what that entails). Who or what do you predict for FP11 then?

Ammy or pheonix to me. Not many even expect them to come anywhere near the pass because of the "capcom has miis so another capcom charcter is out" theory

 

[Bobthealligator]

Exactly this.

Sol might be basic in the context of Guilty Gear games, something I don't really agree with by the way, but in the context of Smash? That's a completely different thing.

It reminds me of when the SNK copyright popped up, and some people were kinda fearing it would be Terry because "he is so basic" and things like that. Then he came out and that perception completely disappeared. Just like Sol, he might be basic in the context of Fatal Fury or KoF (which isn't a bad thing) but in Smash that's not the case.

Also if people complained about his inputs for being too complicated, I don't know how they would have reacted if instead of Terry we had a more complex character lol

I'm not saying he's basic, there's definately a lot about him that stands out. I was just saying it'd be nice to get a rushdown fighter or a grappler because currently we only have 3 shotos.

 

[chocolatejr9]

E3 Update: apparently Bandai Namco is confirmed to be coming. Now we can make jokes about them being in Smash.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I like the claims that E3 being big reveals are bull in retrospect and how people expecting something big are being ridiculous

That’s because it is nothing more than an excuse to arbitrary gatekeep certain characters as not being “E3 worthy” instead of honest speculations based off objective facts. The only pattern consistent with E3 is that they always reveal a “crowd-pleaser” there, which is something that applies to a very broad number of characters and thus doesn’t actually narrow the numbers down that much. Someone like Lloyd or Sol Badguy can easily be big enough to be revealed there. It doesn’t mean we have to have a huge third-party icon like Crash or Master Chief there.

 

[Perkilator]

Here’s a thought; what if Ultimate was delayed to integrate the Plant into the base game proper, among other things?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Here’s a thought; what if Ultimate was delayed to integrate the Plant into the base game proper, among other things?

You know, the last bit about PP’s location makes me wonder if they made an Ultimate Encore and incorporated the DLC into WoL. I’ll include what we got so far + my dream last two

Spoiler

Joker: Final Battle, Dark side, before Bayonetta
Hero: Dark Realm, on the pathway where you find Lucina and the Dracula’s Castle subsection
Banjo: Light Realm, between Lucario and Captain Falcon
Terry: Dark Realm, same area as Rosaluma
Byleth: Light Realm, same area as Pit and Simon
Min Min: Light Realm, replaces her Spirit Battle
Steve: Dark Realm, Sacred Land (area where Bowser Jr. is)
Sephiroth: Light Realm, Rathalos area (for context, Cloud’s in the Dark Realm, and Sephiroth being in the Light Realm would make the second villain in the Light Realm, first being Bowser. PP’s technically a mook)
Pyra/Mythra: Final Battle, Light side, replaces Mythra’s Spirit Battle
Reimu: Light Realm, on the island where you find Mii Gunner
Ahri: Dark Realm, Sacred Land (Forest)

and just for fun I’ll include my hypothetical newcomers for Encore too:

Spoiler

Arle: Light Realm, near Rayman Spirit
Tee (Arle Echo): Dark Realm, area with Dr. Stewart’s Spirit
Elma: Dark Realm, Dracula’s Castle
Mecha-Fiora (Elma echo): Light Realm, on the pathway to Shulk (most Echoes are dropped into the Dark Realm. Fiora and one other are the exception. And yes I know Mecha-Fiora’s actual spirit is in the Dark Realm, I’m just mixing things up this once)
KOS-MOS: Dark Realm, near Terry
T-elos (KOS-MOS echo): Light Realm, Snake’s area. She’d be the third villain in the Light Realm after Sephiroth and Bowser
Crash: Light Realm, area where you find Diddy Kong
Octoling (NOT an Inkling echo): Dark Realm, replaces the Octoling Girl & Octoling Boy Spirit Battle
Neku: Light Realm, City area where you fight Pauline’s Spirit Battle
Violet (Joker semi clone): Light Realm, maze area with Mr. Game & Watch
Wraith (Apex Legends): Dark Realm, Mysterious Dimension

 

[Perkilator]

Man, just imagine the KH remixes if Sora ever got in Smash. I’d love to see how Yoko Shimomura handles a remix of Dearly Beloved that’s specific to Smash but keeps that signature charm of hers.

You know, the last bit about PP’s location makes me wonder if they made an Ultimate Encore and incorporated the DLC into WoL. I’ll include what we got so far + my dream last two

Spoiler

Joker: Final Battle, Dark side, before Bayonetta
Hero: Dark Realm, on the pathway where you find Lucina and the Dracula’s Castle subsection
Banjo: Light Realm, between Lucario and Captain Falcon
Terry: Dark Realm, same area as Rosaluma
Byleth: Light Realm, same area as Pit and Simon
Min Min: Light Realm, replaces her Spirit Battle
Steve: Dark Realm, Sacred Land
Sephiroth: Light Realm, Rathalos area
Pyra/Mythra: Final Battle, Light side, replaces Mythra’s Spirit Battle
Reimu: Light Realm, on the island where you find Mii Gunner
Ahri: Dark Realm, right after the Octoling Girl & Octoling Boy Spirit Battle

I think I’ll do so too:

Spoiler

• Joker: Dark Realm, on the pathway to the Sacred Land
• Hero: Light Realm, Forest Hill
• Banjo: Light Realm, DK Island
• Terry: Light Realm, World Tour
• Byleth: Final Battle
• Min Min: Light Realm, replaces her Spirit Battle
• Steve: Dark Realm, Mysterious Dimension
• Sephiroth: Final Battle, right before Galeem and Dharkon
• Pyra/Mythra: Final Battle, replaces Mythra’s Spirit Battle
• Bandana Dee: Light Realm, Gourmet Race
• Dr. Eggman: Final Battle, replaces his Spirit Battle

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You know, the last bit about PP’s location makes me wonder if they made an Ultimate Encore and incorporated the DLC into WoL. I’ll include what we got so far + my dream last two

Spoiler

Joker: Final Battle, Dark side, before Bayonetta
Hero: Dark Realm, on the pathway where you find Lucina and the Dracula’s Castle subsection
Banjo: Light Realm, between Lucario and Captain Falcon
Terry: Dark Realm, same area as Rosaluma
Byleth: Light Realm, same area as Pit and Simon
Min Min: Light Realm, replaces her Spirit Battle
Steve: Dark Realm, Sacred Land (area where Bowser Jr. is)
Sephiroth: Light Realm, Rathalos area (for context, Cloud’s in the Dark Realm, and Sephiroth being in the Light Realm would make the second villain in the Light Realm, first being Bowser. PP’s technically a mook)
Pyra/Mythra: Final Battle, Light side, replaces Mythra’s Spirit Battle
Reimu: Light Realm, on the island where you find Mii Gunner
Ahri: Dark Realm, Sacred Land (Forest)

and just for fun I’ll include my hypothetical newcomers for Encore too:

Spoiler

Arle: Light Realm, near Rayman Spirit
Tee (Arle Echo): Dark Realm, area with Dr. Stewart’s Spirit
Elma: Dark Realm, Dracula’s Castle
Mecha-Fiora (Elma echo): Light Realm, on the pathway to Shulk (most Echoes are dropped into the Dark Realm. Fiora and one other are the exception)
KOS-MOS: Dark Realm, near Terry
T-elos (KOS-MOS echo): Light Realm, Snake’s area. She’d be the third villain in the Light Realm after Sephiroth and Bowser
Crash: Light Realm, area where you find Diddy Kong
Octoling: Dark Realm, replaces the Octoling Girl & Octoling Boy Spirit Battle
Neku: Light Realm, City area where you fight Pauline’s Spirit Battle
Violet (Joker semi clone): Light Realm, maze area with Mr. Game & Watch
Wraith (Apex Legends): Dark Realm, Mysterious Dimension

Did some touch ups as I also included some newcomers exclusive to Encore that id like to see. This is all hypothetical of course
And yes I know Mecha-Fiora’s Spirit is originally in the Sacred Land in the Dark Realm. I’m bending the rules this time only

 

[CommanderZaktan]

E3 participates has been updated https://nintendoeverything.com/e3-2021-shares-updated-list-of-participating-companies/

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Man, just imagine the KH remixes if Sora ever got in Smash. I’d love to see how Yoko Shimomura handles a remix of Dearly Beloved that’s specific to Smash but keeps that signature charm of hers.

Smash remix of Dearly Beloved would slap hard

 

[cashregister9]

E3 participates has been updated https://nintendoeverything.com/e3-2021-shares-updated-list-of-participating-companies/

SEGA and Bamco, Nice!

Maybe SEGA will actually announce a Sonic Game

 

[Gnateb]

E3 participates has been updated https://nintendoeverything.com/e3-2021-shares-updated-list-of-participating-companies/

Oh nice! Sega and Bandai Namco. Looking forward to it.

Edit: looks like this is exactly what the person above me said haha

 

[SKX31]

People really don't remember that much about Smash 4 anyways lol. That whole era is like a blur to most people at this point.

Hence why you still have people say that Geno is one of the most consistently requested characters since like Melee...even though there was indeed a big lull in his active online fandom during most of Smash 4. Of course, most people forget that.

Yeah, I get the impression that the reasons Smash 4 isn't so well remembered boil down to a few factors:

• While it was on the 3DS and Wii U, Wii U's release sapped players away from 3DS and thus that version was played less often than its ca 9 million sales would suggest. This didn't happen in reverse as much.
• The Wii U itself... yeah. Didn't have a lot going for it after 4 released. By late 2016 / early 2017 a lot of talk focused around the NX / Switch instead. And the focus shifted completely once Ultimate was initially teased in March 2018.
• Smash 4's DLC was not structured and relatively short (9 months, vs. Ultimate's 3 years) - leading to speculation stalling out some. There wasn't a whole lot of time after launch for people to really galvanize. Also, the Smash Ballot didn't see immidiate results, which affected the speculation scene pretty heavily,
• Patches for the game ceased pretty quickly as well, which was probably the primary reason for the competitive issue below, but also didn't help the casual side since there wasn't a whole lot of new stuff to digest. Contrast with Ultimate, where more casual players have not only seen the return of a couple modes as well as 12 DLC characters, but also some other stuff like Small Battlefield and additional Spirits for those interested in that.
• While Smash Bros. will likely always be played as a party game, there were some weird stuff that hurt its replayability amongst more casual fans. Smash Run being 3DS exclusive (and having its online limited to local wireless), Smash Tour being considered underwhelming, Classic Mode not being as well-recieved etc.
• A lot of Smash 4 talk after the final Smash 4 direct was on the competitive side, and well...

While Smash 4 was decently well balanced (and laid the foundation for Ultimate's state), it was also much more top-heavy amongst the pretty visible competitive side than Ultimate has been so far. Bayo's pretty overwhelming presence dampered interest in Smash 4: EVO 2018's finale was effectively a deathknell for that segment of the fanbase.

I have a question to pose to everyone that I feel might become relevant soon.

Imagine E3 comes around, we get one character, and they aren't a big reveal (I'll leave it up to you to decide what that entails). Who or what do you predict for FP11 then?

If it isn't a big reveal, I'm thinking either something like Adol, Dante or another first party. Could even see something like DFO.

E3 participates has been updated https://nintendoeverything.com/e3-2021-shares-updated-list-of-participating-companies/

The lineup of representatives was recently updated, and it features some notable names. Bandai Namco, Deep Silver, GungHo Online Entertainment America, Limited Run Games, SEGA, Square Enix, THQ Nordic, and XSEED Games are among the additions.

THQ Nordic Deep Silver (Edited, see this post a couple posts below this.)

Evil Trapezium

Time to Split!

 

[chocolatejr9]

I have a question to pose to everyone that I feel might become relevant soon.

Imagine E3 comes around, we get one character, and they aren't a big reveal (I'll leave it up to you to decide what that entails). Who or what do you predict for FP11 then?

At that point, I'd go all in on Euden. Don't care about lack of European presence.

 

[Technomage]

I'm playing Nier Replicant 1.22 atm, and this just makes me wish 2B is going to be one of the remaining DLC all the more.

Yeah, yeah, another sword fighter or whatever, but I think she'd be really cool regardless.

Plus, the fact that her swords levitate all the time and she uses attacks involving them like Orbitars from Kid Icarus Uprising (except it uses melee attacks), that could open up some potential for uniqueness.

and just for fun I’ll include my hypothetical newcomers for Encore too:

Spoiler

Arle: Light Realm, near Rayman Spirit
Tee (Arle Echo): Dark Realm, Mysterious Dimension
Elma: Dark Realm, Dracula’s Castle
Mecha-Fiora (Elma echo): Light Realm, on the pathway to Shulk (most Echoes are dropped into the Dark Realm. Fiora and one other are the exception)
KOS-MOS: Dark Realm, near Terry
T-elos (KOS-MOS echo): Light Realm, Snake’s area. She’d be the third villain in the Light Realm after Sephiroth and Bowser
Crash: Light Realm, area where you find Diddy Kong
Octoling: Dark Realm, replaces the Octoling Girl & Octoling Boy Spirit Battle
Neku: Light Realm, City area where you fight Pauline’s Spirit Battle
Wraith (Apex Legends): Dark Realm, Mysterious Dimension

I don't know about any WoL placements, but here are some newcomers I'd like to see in a hypothetical Ultimate Deluxe's base roster:

Krystal
Dr. Eggman
Chun-Li
Zero
Heihachi Mishima (with both elderly and young adult incarnations as alternate costumes)
Yuri Lowell
Saki Amamiya
Goemon and Ebisumaru tag-team
Crash Bandicoot
Paper Mario

E3 participates has been updated https://nintendoeverything.com/e3-2021-shares-updated-list-of-participating-companies/

Oh cool, Activision, Namco, Capcom, SEGA, Square, Ubisoft, and Microsoft will be attending; that increases the chances of characters I want or would be interested in being revealed. :D

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Evil Trapezium

Time to Split!

Slight correction. THQ Nordic doesn't own the TimeSplitters IP. That would be Deep Silver.

Spoiler: Confirmation and explanation

PSA: There's currently no TimeSplitters game in the works at THQ Nordic. Mostly because it's not our IP.

— THQ Nordic (@THQNordic) April 8, 2021

Long story short: We shared a name with our mommy but they changed it to Embracer to avoid confusions.

The Embracer Group owns THQ Nordic, Koch Media, Coffee Stain and more.

— THQ Nordic (@THQNordic) April 8, 2021

And that list includes Deep Silver so YEAH!

It's Time to Split!

 

[SNEKeater]

I'm not saying he's basic, there's definately a lot about him that stands out. I was just saying it'd be nice to get a rushdown fighter or a grappler because currently we only have 3 shotos.

That's fair.
Then we're getting either Chun-Li or Nightmare.

 

[SneakyLink]

Update: List was housed on official E3 website, but appears to be based on what was planned for 2020 https://t.co/d6ugXrfTxr pic.twitter.com/oV8APxTsyB

— Nintendo Everything (@NinEverything) April 25, 2021

Apparently some of the previous info regarding E3 companies could appear to be a error due to using last year’s planned E3 list.
Hype responsibly folks.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Apparently the dead give away about it being last year's E3 list was that it included a Cyberpunk 2077 presentation by CD Projekt Red with the descriptor "Cyberpunk, the game everyone's gonna love."

 

[Lamperouge]

"Cyberpunk, the game everyone's gonna love."

That's not entirely untrue.

We just ended up loving to hate it.

 

[Pillow]

Hype responsibly folks.

You can't tell me what to do. Kiryu's coming I can already feel it.

 

[Perkilator]

Update: List was housed on official E3 website, but appears to be based on what was planned for 2020 https://t.co/d6ugXrfTxr pic.twitter.com/oV8APxTsyB

— Nintendo Everything (@NinEverything) April 25, 2021

Apparently some of the previous info regarding E3 companies could appear to be a error due to using last year’s planned E3 list.
Hype responsibly folks.

My hopes were raised for nothing

 

[Deleted member]

That's not entirely untrue.

We just ended up loving to hate it.

Loving to hate it implies it’s underserved. They essentially released a beta and let players be the testers and passed it off as a mistake to be fixed in numerous patches.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Apparently the dead give away about it being last year's E3 list was that it included a Cyberpunk 2077 presentation by CD Projekt Red with the descriptor "Cyberpunk, the game everyone's gonna love."

Man, what a time that was.

It wasn't even that long ago, and now I feel old...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Loving to hate it implies it’s underserved. They essentially released a beta and let players be the testers and passed it off as a mistake to be fixed in numerous patches.

So then... hating to love it?

 

[Lamperouge]

Loving to hate it implies it’s underserved. They essentially released a beta and let players be the testers and passed it off as a mistake to be fixed in numerous patches.

Perhaps I could've worded that better but it was just a joke.

Cyberpunk absolutely deserved the criticism it got.

 

[cashregister9]

Update: List was housed on official E3 website, but appears to be based on what was planned for 2020 https://t.co/d6ugXrfTxr pic.twitter.com/oV8APxTsyB

— Nintendo Everything (@NinEverything) April 25, 2021

Apparently some of the previous info regarding E3 companies could appear to be a error due to using last year’s planned E3 list.
Hype responsibly folks.

It wouldn't be E3 without someone royally ****ing up.

 

[chocolatejr9]

It wouldn't be E3 without someone royally ****ing up.

You can't spell "ignorant" without E3!

Wait, wrong company...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You can't spell "ignorant" without E3!

Wait, wrong company...

Yeah, replace the 3 with an A
Yes I know it’s actually IGN I couldn’t resist the potshot at EA

 

[SharkLord]

That's the etymology of the term, but I was referring to shotos as a fighting game archetype, which are the Jack of All trades, All-rounder fighters, which Sol and Terry are. I'm not saying they're boring, just it might be nice to see some other aspects of traditional fighters represented for a change.

Sol's not really a shoto by definition though. The shotoclone archetype is defined by a forward-traveling projectile, a forward approach move, and a rising anti-air, usually in the form of a not-Shoryuken. Sol has a not-Shoryuken (Volcanic Viper), lots and lots of approach moves... But I don't think Gun Flame really counts as a projectile so much as a longer melee attack. He's more geared towards an in-your-face unga bunga type of playstyle, and it would really stick out if we bring over Guilty Gear mechanics.

Ky's the Guilty Gear shoto, not Sol. He's the well-rounded guy with a projectile, a forward approach move, and a rising anti-air. If you're worried about shotos, you'd be more worried about him, but we're 90% getting Sol anyways so there's nothing to fear.

 

[epicmartin7]

Yeah, replace the 3 with an A
Yes I know it’s actually IGN I couldn’t resist the potshot at EA

Well, as they say...

You can't spell Death without EA.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Update: List was housed on official E3 website, but appears to be based on what was planned for 2020 https://t.co/d6ugXrfTxr pic.twitter.com/oV8APxTsyB

— Nintendo Everything (@NinEverything) April 25, 2021

Apparently some of the previous info regarding E3 companies could appear to be a error due to using last year’s planned E3 list.
Hype responsibly folks.

I can only speculate that last year’s participants probably put down a deposit and it’s likely going to be identical to the 2020 list hence the carryover.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Sol's not really a shoto by definition though. The shotoclone archetype is defined by a forward-traveling projectile, a forward approach move, and a rising anti-air, usually in the form of a not-Shoryuken.

Actually, the forward approaching move is not actually a requirement to apply the term. Though inputs are.

QCF projectile and DPM rising physical attack are the strict requirements of a shotoclone.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If Sol Badguy were to be playable, could he come with 50 tracks?