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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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7NATOR

7NATOR

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The Echidna Clan was a plot point in the Sonic Adventure game, before any of the Archie comics delved deep into their lore. Since the movie goes by it's own canon also, I think that's why despite the Ken Penders situation, they were still used

Perhaps we could see similar things happen with other content not exclusive to Ken penders, but tied to him nonetheless, like the Black Arms (Though that's if they want to keep that for Shadow in the movie Canon)

LiveStudioAudience said:
Whether its Eggman, Arle, or some other dark horse, I will say Sega's got a decent shot at having someone. They've had characters in the two previous DLC cycles, and given that Square and Microsoft have doubled dipped in terms of Fighter's Pass, a company like Sega that has arguably an even more consistent relationship with Nintendo feels like an easy source to pull fighters from yet again.
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If it's something Sonic related, here's something I'll say

The content that Square and Microsoft got in Both Fighter Passes had no presence in Smash before. Dragon Quest, Banjo & Kazooie, and Minecraft were completely new, and the new FF7 Content we got in FP2 with Sephiroth and all the spirits, costumes, music, stage, were all new to the game, otherwise everything else in base game was just leftovers from Cloud's Smash 4 DLC. This also extends to Sega regarding Persona

Regarding Sega, if It's something Sonic related, since the other Sonic characters have had a presence in the game since Sonic's introduction into Brawl, I could see a case where regarding negotiations, they probably negotiate everything during the base game, Including the Assist trophies, spirits, maybe even the Costumes (though I'm not sure on that). the other Franchises mentioned were probably in talks for a good while, but their first negotiations were during when DLC was decided to be a thing

If another Sonic character was decided to be a thing, then this would be the 2nd round of negotiations they will go through. I will say this is probably something that Bomberman had to go through to get his Deluxe Mii Costume, and it could extend to a Full fleged fighter in the case of Sonic.

The reason I even mention all of this is because (and this is not because of your comment, but other comments I've seen in the past), It would be weird that Another Sonic character isn't in the same priority of Steve and Sephiroth if Sakurai's Comments about "1 or 2 Extra fighters" has any bearing, and couple with the Sonic costumes appearing in Joker's pack, I have seen these as reason against another Sonic character

But I think in regards to Sonic, Unlike Steve and Sephiroth, The other characters do already have presence in the game and have had presence since Brawl, so if a FP2 was deemed as a risky avenue to go into, It's not like there would be a waste of talks in regards to Another Sonic character, unlike with Steve, Sephiroth, and etc
 
ahemtoday

ahemtoday

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7NATOR said:
Perhaps we could see similar things happen with other content not exclusive to Ken penders, but tied to him nonetheless, like the Black Arms (Though that's if they want to keep that for Shadow in the movie Canon)
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Do the Black Arms have anything to do with Penders?

I'm asking out of unfamiliarity with the comics, not with the games, for the record.
 
SharkLord

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ahemtoday said:
Do the Black Arms have anything to do with Penders?

I'm asking out of unfamiliarity with the comics, not with the games, for the record.
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I don't think they do. They were introduced in Shadow's game, so Penders doesn't have any control over them, I think. I think Archie started adapting them after the reboot, when Penders left.
 
SNEKeater

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Cutie Gwen said:
But Terry and Sol aren't Shotos? Shoto refers to Shotokan, a Karate style
en.m.wikipedia.org

Shotokan - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

Terry's moves are improvised by fighting in the streets and half of Sol's buttons have him swing a giant lighter around. I think you mean not wanting a more basic fighter from the series, but in case of GG, Sol's not designed as an allrounder but an aggresive rushdown character who can also do this dumb ****
View attachment 312628
I get preferences when GG's got such a memorable cast but if Sol's considered basic, he'd be ridiculous in Smash
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Exactly this.

Sol might be basic in the context of Guilty Gear games, something I don't really agree with by the way, but in the context of Smash? That's a completely different thing.

It reminds me of when the SNK copyright popped up, and some people were kinda fearing it would be Terry because "he is so basic" and things like that. Then he came out and that perception completely disappeared. Just like Sol, he might be basic in the context of Fatal Fury or KoF (which isn't a bad thing) but in Smash that's not the case.

Also if people complained about his inputs for being too complicated, I don't know how they would have reacted if instead of Terry we had a more complex character lol
 
C

chocolatejr9

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ahemtoday said:
Do the Black Arms have anything to do with Penders?

I'm asking out of unfamiliarity with the comics, not with the games, for the record.
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Thankfully, no. That being said, Sega doesn't seem to like acknowledging Black Doom, as when the Black Arms were adapted, Ian Flynn (the writer of that arc) had to create an original character to serve as their leader. Granted, Black Doom was already dead at that point, but still.
 
7NATOR

7NATOR

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ahemtoday said:
Do the Black Arms have anything to do with Penders?

I'm asking out of unfamiliarity with the comics, not with the games, for the record.
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Penders didn't make them since they debuted in Shadow's Game

However there are some plot points Ken made with the Black Arms after the Shadow game, since in end of the game, the Black Arms are totally defeated. the comics not only introduce the return of the Black Arms, but they also introduce certain other plot elements like Shadow having a "Brother" of some sort named eclipse

these plot points died with the who Ken Penders Scandal, and Sega mandated that the Black Arms not be used since the plot elements in the comics can't be delved into, and without these plot elements, the Black Arms are left in limbo. It messes with the canon of the Sonic lore
 
True Blue Warrior

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SNEKeater said:
Exactly this.

Sol might be basic in the context of Guilty Gear games, something I don't really agree with by the way, but in the context of Smash? That's a completely different thing.

It reminds me of when the SNK copyright popped up, and some people were kinda fearing it would be Terry because "he is so basic" and things like that. Then he came out and that perception completely disappeared. Just like Sol, he might be basic in the context of Fatal Fury or KoF (which isn't a bad thing) but in Smash that's not the case.

Also if people complained about his inputs for being too complicated, I don't know how they would have reacted if instead of Terry we had a more complex character lol
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Like a character with a pretzel motion.
 
C

chocolatejr9

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7NATOR said:
Penders didn't make them since they debuted in Shadow's Game

However there are some plot points Ken made with the Black Arms after the Shadow game, since in end of the game, the Black Arms are totally defeated. the comics not only introduce the return of the Black Arms, but they also introduce certain other plot elements like Shadow having a "Brother" of some sort named eclipse

these plot points died with the who Ken Penders Scandal, and Sega mandated that the Black Arms not be used since the plot elements in the comics can't be delved into, and without these plot elements, the Black Arms are left in limbo. It messes with the canon of the Sonic lore
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Actually, that was Ian Flynn who wrote that storyline. You can tell because the writing was actually pretty good and paid respect to the source material.
 
Mushroomguy12

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2003 "Fire Emblem" released today !! Lindis appeared. Fuin's sword. Rekkaken. Overseas, this was the first release of "FE", so there was no subtitle. It seems that "FE Heroes" has a subtitle "The Blazing Blade". #Smash Bros SP
 
SharkLord

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Mushroomguy12 said:

2003 "Fire Emblem" released today !! Lindis appeared. Fuin's sword. Rekkaken. Overseas, this was the first release of "FE", so there was no subtitle. It seems that "FE Heroes" has a subtitle "The Blazing Blade". #Smash Bros SP
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Now, if only we could replicate this scene with actual fighters...
 
A

Ayumi Tachibana

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3BitSaurus said:
It's also worth noting that Japan was part of Wild Rift's open beta - if I remember correctly, it was unveiled along with South Korea. I do think Wild Rift might elevate the japanese playerbase.

Also, I found this out while looking for LoL WR numbers in Japan since release. Tagging A Ayumi Tachibana because they live in Japan and I want to know how big of a deal this is - the article says they're also responsible for PUBG Mobile and Valorant leagues in Japan.
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Honestly, I can't really tell how much of a boost this could give to WR or MOBA genre in general. Today, battle royale style of FPS got very popular than ever it has been in Japan, and this is mainly due to the influence of alpha Streamers including VTubers.
MOBA is still in its struggle to catch casual gamers, since no one influential is playing. That's why people are looking forward to the release of Pokemon Unite, which could attract casual gamers a lot more than LoL WR.
 
osby

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SNEKeater said:
Exactly this.

Sol might be basic in the context of Guilty Gear games, something I don't really agree with by the way, but in the context of Smash? That's a completely different thing.

It reminds me of when the SNK copyright popped up, and some people were kinda fearing it would be Terry because "he is so basic" and things like that. Then he came out and that perception completely disappeared. Just like Sol, he might be basic in the context of Fatal Fury or KoF (which isn't a bad thing) but in Smash that's not the case.

Also if people complained about his inputs for being too complicated, I don't know how they would have reacted if instead of Terry we had a more complex character lol
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I'm half glad we don't talk about Virtua Fighter more because I'm sure people would call Akira a shoto and I would legally have to slap them.
 
helloiamhere

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I think a Sega rep (if it happens) has a very good possibility of being from Phantasy Star. Sakurai got his start in the video game industry by meeting with developers of Phantasy Star II as part of a contest. People would scream "Sakurai bias" but it would be well deserved imo.
 
Gnateb

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osby said:
I'm half glad we don't talk about Virtua Fighter more because I'm sure people would call Akira a shoto and I would legally have to slap them.
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I was happy to see him upgraded to Assist Trophy.

Full, unique animations + voice lines > Mii Costume for me.
 
DarthEnderX

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My E3 Predictions:
Hayabusa
Someone I don't really care about

SNEKeater said:
What about Sephiroth?
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Oh he definitely was. Because of who he is, and because of being our first unique "additional 3P character". But I can't think of anyone else than would be.

Wigglerman said:
If Chun does come and I don't get Solar Eclipse from SF4 I'ma riot.
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It's a big field. That doesn't seem like it would make a good Smash stage.

Nah, give me, like, Nash or Rolento's Alpha 2 stages.
 
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DevaAshera

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Ivander said:
Female Corrin and Byleth look around 5'5 to Male Corrin and Byleth's 5'7. That's hardly noticeable. With Artoria and Arthur, Artoria is just reaching 5'1 while Arthur is in the middle ground of 5'11 and 6'0. Assuming Mario is actually around 5'1, Saber would be around Mario's height. Who is around Arthur's size? Assuming Ike's height is correct at 180cm, Arthur would be slightly taller than Ike. And Mario can barely reach Ike's shoulders in Smash.
I know sizes aren't supposed to be entirely serious when Olimar is originally smaller than pop cans, bottles and etc and Ridley was originally frickin' big, but those ones had to take creative liberties to work while Saber and Arthur are within normal height range. It's easy to do the Male Avatars and Female Avatars because the Male Avatars aren't that big to the Females. Their eyes are almost even with each others.
Saber's eyes are looking at Arthur's chest and shoulders. It won't be easy to find a middle ground when Arthur towers over many characters like Ike, Marth, Ken, Falcon, Snake, etc while Saber is smaller than those characters as well as Daisy, ROB, Yoshi, Pit, etc.

All this aside, it's be entirely up to the developers and the creators of Saber. If they are fine with shrinking Arthur down and raising up Saber, that's fine and dandy. If they want to keep Saber the small girl and Arthur the big man, that's their decision. Considering how finicky they can be with Saber, I'm just expecting the latter.
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The heights I'd listed for Byleth & Saber are their canon heights, so no, female Byleth isn't 5'5" and Arthur isn't between 5'11" and 6'0".
Super Smash Bros. doesn't have characters at their heights in comparison to one another to begin with..I mean, Sonic is just over 3'0" yet is taller than the 5'0" Mario in both Smash and the Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games series.
Like I said previously, they could fudge the heights of both Artoria & Arthur in order to have them both look 'right' to the naked eye and able to be included as alts for one another. Its not like the two of them are often depicted next to one another anyway so it hardly matters what 'canon' says their heights compared to one another should be.
Beyond that, fudging sizes in order to make characters work in certain ways is nothing new for Nintendo, even outside of Smash, like in Super Mario 3D World where they made Peach & Rosalina shorter & Toad larger in order to function as playable characters or, in-Smash, Lucina was made seemingly taller than she was depicted in Fire Emblem Awakening in order to function as Marth's alternate skin, as was the plan when she was developed for Smash, before Sakurai decided to just make her an Echo Fighter instead.

Looking at the Artwork for Artoria & Arthur, their height difference hardly seems like a barrier. I'll grant you that Arthur looks a lot taller in Fate/Grand Order, but in their initial appearances in Fate/stay night and Fate/Prototype, the difference is less pronounced and thus shows that they could easily have their sizes fudged to make Artoria a little taller and Arthur a little shorter, as was done with the Fire Emblem Avatar characters without them looking too 'off' to fans of the characters when depicted solo, as would likely be the case most of the time.
SaberF.png SaberM.png
I also wouldn't call Arthur that much of a 'big man'..but yes, it is up to Nasu & Type-Moon overall on what they'd allow and not allow. That said, I don't expect they'd even think about having Arthur as an alt over a more recognizable Saber, like Saber Alter, or if they were fine with altering the visual aspects of certain moves, such as Final Smash ala AC Cloud, Nero Claudius.
 
Ivander

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DevaAshera said:
Arthur isn't between 5'11" and 6'0".

View attachment 312681View attachment 312680
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Arthur is 181cm and Artoria is 154cm. Those are their official heights according to Fate Grand Order. To be 5'11, you have to be about 180.3cm at the lowest and to be 6'0, you have to be 181.7cm at the lowest. Arthur is exactly 181cm, .7cm higher than 180.3cm/5'11 and .7cm lower than 181.7cm/6'0. That is exactly between 5'11 and 6'0.

And artwork is never a good example of comparing height, especially artwork where the character's legs are lifting like in Arthur's. And Grand Order really suffers from this cause there are characters you'd think would be much taller because of their artwork and yet their official height says that they aren't really that tall. And the internet doesn't help either.


And it really doesn't help my OCD or whatever the equivalent for thinking certain things should be like this and it ticks when it isn't.
 
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cashregister9

cashregister9

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I feel like Height is one of those things that isn't consistent in smash and shouldn't really disconfirm any potential alts or anything. We went through this song and dance with Ridley.

also Olimar is supposed to be 3 inches tall.

I feel like it's fine to alter heights as long as it works or isn't a drastic difference.
 
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GoodGrief741

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I have a question to pose to everyone that I feel might become relevant soon.

Imagine E3 comes around, we get one character, and they aren't a big reveal (I'll leave it up to you to decide what that entails). Who or what do you predict for FP11 then?
 
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DevaAshera

DevaAshera

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Ivander said:
Arthur is 181cm and Artoria is 154cm. Those are their official heights according to Fate Grand Order. To be 5'11, you have to be about 180.3cm at the lowest and to be 6'0, you have to be 181.7cm at the lowest. Arthur is exactly 181cm, .7cm higher than 180.3cm/5'11 and .7cm lower than 181.7cm/6'0. That is exactly between 5'11 and 6'0.

And artwork is never a good example of comparing height, especially artwork where the character's legs are lifting like in Arthur's. And Grand Order really suffers from this cause there are characters you'd think would be much taller because of their artwork and yet their official height says that they aren't really that tall. And the internet doesn't help either.


And it really doesn't help my OCD or whatever the equivalent for thinking certain things should be like this and it ticks when it isn't.
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My calculations shown 181cm as being about 5.9ft..so I may have been incorrect due to forgetting that the .9 wouldn't be 9 inches in height lol

And trust me, I know..they make it a point to make Rider/Medusa look extremely tall, and comment on how tall she is too, and then she's only, like, 5'9".
However, artwork is what people tend to make their basis for size off of, so Arthur looking shorter than his canon height would work in his favor in regards to being a costume for Artoria.
Like I said, Smash has never, and will never, care about characters' sizes being accurate, they only care about the sizes working for their functions as playable characters while not looking too off. I don't think very many Fate fans would care if Artoria & Arthur were the same size in a non-canon game like Smash Bros when the alternative is not having Arthur in the game at all. It'd be a bigger deal if Artoria & Arthur appeared next to one another and thus there was an idea of what they should look like next to each other canonically, as is though, there's enough suspension of disbelief for the two of them to be the same height without looking too out of place to most people provided their heights are both fudged to about 5'5" or so.
Idon said:
Hah, maybe next Smash we'll get Lyn in conjunction with that inevitable Blazing Blade Remake.
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I doubt it, with the hatred Fire Emblem already gets, I doubt Sakurai will have any Fire Emblem characters that aren't from the newest entry, not counting remakes, otherwise I think we would have gotten Celica as the Echo (of Robin) rather than Chrom.
 
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G

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GoodGrief741 said:
I have a question to pose to everyone that I feel might become relevant soon.

Imagine E3 comes around, we get one character, and they aren't a big reveal (I'll leave it up to you to decide what that entails). Who or what do you predict for FP11 then?
Click to expand...
I mean my prediction for an E3 reveal is a certain someone who's only "big" in the Smash community so that depends on who this small reveal is. If it's him, I'll just...keep on predicting what I predict.
 
SharkLord

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GoodGrief741 said:
I have a question to pose to everyone that I feel might become relevant soon.

Imagine E3 comes around, we get one character, and they aren't a big reveal (I'll leave it up to you to decide what that entails). Who or what do you predict for FP11 then?
Click to expand...
If they didn't arrange the show-stopper for E3, I'd think they're being saved for a big ending. The megatons are always arranged to be shown off at E3 (Aside from 2014's E3, which is kind of an oddball, all things considered) If we don't get a someone big there I'd think there's something behind that, and the end of the Smash cycle for the time being would be the obvious reason why.
 
Peripuff

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SharkLord said:
If they didn't arrange the show-stopper for E3, I'd think they're being saved for a big ending. The megatons are always arranged to be shown off at E3 (Aside from 2014's E3, which is kind of an oddball, all things considered) If we don't get a someone big there I'd think there's something behind that, and the end of the Smash cycle for the time being would be the obvious reason why.
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I mean there's also the possibility that they don't have anyone big left after announcing Steve and Sephy idk
 
DarthEnderX

DarthEnderX

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TIL, Super Smash Bros. isn't called Super Smash Bros. in Japan!

GoodGrief741 said:
Imagine E3 comes around, we get one character, and they aren't a big reveal (I'll leave it up to you to decide what that entails). Who or what do you predict for FP11 then?
Click to expand...
Still Hayabusa.
 
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