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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

Adrianette Bromide

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What about Sephiroth? Sure you could argue he was a big reveal because that was the first time a third party series got a second unique fighter, but he's still Sephiroth, a big name in videogame history.

I agree that Chun-Li would make less noise regardless of she not having the surprise factor Sephiroth had, but I don't know, Chun-Li still screams big reveal to me.

Which I can see is some people complaining because she would be the third SF character. That plus some Smash fans not being really into characters from traditional fighting games would result in some complains and all, but I still think she would be very well received, even if it's because she's a very recognizable character.
It def depends on the character. Sephiroth is basically the Darth Vader of video games but if for some reason the Final Fantasy DLC rep ended up being idk like Vivi, idk if i'd call it a monolith of an inclusion. Chun-Li would def be big IMO but the implication of a traditional FG mechanics character might not make her super popular in the long run.
 

cashregister9

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What about Sephiroth? Sure you could argue he was a big reveal because that was the first time a third party series got a second unique fighter, but he's still Sephiroth, a big name in videogame history.

I agree that Chun-Li would make less noise regardless of she not having the surprise factor Sephiroth had, but I don't know, Chun-Li still screams big reveal to me.

Which I can see is some people complaining because she would be the third SF character. That plus some Smash fans not being really into characters from traditional fighting games would result in some complains and all, but I still think she would be very well received, even if it's because she's a very recognizable character.
She would be well received but she would not be nearly as revered as someone like Crash or Chief, which Is what I think he was going for.

and unlike FF, SF already has more than 2 songs and spirits.
 
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Wigglerman

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She would be well received but she would not be nearly as revered as someone like Crash or Chief, which Is what I think he was going for.

and unlike FF, SF already has more than 2 songs and spirits.
But only one stage, unlike FF now. Get that Chun-Li classic stage. Aw yisss.
 

Ramen Tengoku

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and unlike Sephiroth, SF already has more than 2 songs and spirits.
I think there's still a lot you could pull from SF.

Like the music we have currently is only from SF2. The series has as a lot of genuine bangers so I'd love to see the list expanded to other games. Gimme that "RASHIDOOOO!"
 
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cashregister9

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But only one stage, unlike FF now. Get that Chun-Li classic stage. Aw yisss.
Taiping road would be cool especially if they do something like the characters in the background are other Street Fighter characters.

I think there's still a lot you could pull from SF.

Like the music we have currently is only from SF2. I'd love to see the list expanded to other games' tunes. Gimme that "RASHIDOOOO!"
I wasn't saying Chun-li couldn't come with new content, I was more referring to why her situation would be different from Sephiroth's.

(Also by god if Chun-li gets in and we don't get volcanic rim I will do something overexaggerated. But it would be forgiven if they somehow add Indestructible.)

I find that hard to believe. Chun-Li is a huge third-party icon.
I'm not saying she isn't big, I'm just saying that she is not as big of a deal for smash when compared to Chief or Crash.
 
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SharkLord

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Okay, now I'm gonna give my idea for a big-and-small-reveals duo:

Big reveal: Crash

Small/Medium: Bubsy
If we're listing off different combos:

Show-Stoppers
  • League of Legends - Already went over this one. Who it'd be is up for debate, though. Seems like Ahri's the one tossed around the most whenever we discuss Smash., but there's certainly more options.
  • Dark Souls - Presumably the Chosen Undead, but Solaire and Artorias seem to be pretty well-known too. Dark Souls is among the most influential new IPs of the 2010's, being so utterly brutal it became the measuring stick of difficulty and spawned an entire sub-genre of RPGs. Plus, the blend of Japanese game design and Western aesthetics means it's pretty popular worldwide.
Mid-Tier/Low-Key
  • Dynasty Warriors - All those crossovers aren't for nothing. Dynasty Warriors is up there with Ninja Gaiden for KT's stuff, and arguably surpasses it in sheer volume. The main reason I don't rate it up with the show-stoppers is that it seems to be less well-received in the West.
  • Reimu Hakurei - Oh hey, a clear choice for a series for once. By now, I think we know all the pros and cons of Touhou by now; Massive fanbase, wide reach through fanworks and osmosis, huge in Japan, cult status in the West. I think they'd be closer to Hero, as a more regional-focused pick.
  • Tales - Lloyd or Yuri, most likely. I almost placed them up with the show-stoppers, but the fact that Tales' popularity is mainly in Japan held them back (Sensing a pattern here?) Still, it's pretty big overall, Lloyd has some legacy factor to him, and Yuri has recency with Vesperia's definitive edition.
  • Bill Rizer - Plus maybe Lance Bean. Contra's not as big as it used to be, but it's got some solid legacy behind it and I think it would make a pretty decent splash.
  • Falcom rep - A Terry-esque legacy pick, with Falcom's recent Switch ports backing them up. Leaning towards Estelle Bright, based on Trails seeming to be Falcom's darling as of late and Estelle still getting focus in the anniversary logos. Adol Christin is a close second. Since Falcom's still niche despite their legacy, I'm placing them down here.
  • Sol Badguy - ArcSys has been gaining traction, and can lay claim to being the forefathers and current champions of the anime/hyper fighting game subgenre. With BlazBlue winding down and Guilty Gear rising up, it seems like Sol's the most prominent of their candidates. Like with Falcom, ArcSys hasn't quite hit the mainstream yet, and their candidates are mid-tier at best.
  • Ayumi Tachibana - With Mii Costumes and Spirits taking out almost all the prominent first-parties, either directly or indirectly, it seems that FDC is the only game left that really fits the "first-party promo pick" timeframe. Of course, it's a remake of a retro game that's mainly known in the West for one of their characters almost getting added to Melee, so they'd be a much smaller reveal.
 

Rie Sonomura

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If we get two reveals at E3 imma bet on Ahri and Reimu

it would also make 85% of Pass 2 female-dominated (assuming you also count Steve’s Alex alt)
 

Cutie Gwen

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(doesn't have to be Sol, especially after Ryu Ken and Terry, it'd be nice to see a fighting game rep that isn't a shoto)
But Terry and Sol aren't Shotos? Shoto refers to Shotokan, a Karate style

Terry's moves are improvised by fighting in the streets and half of Sol's buttons have him swing a giant lighter around. I think you mean not wanting a more basic fighter from the series, but in case of GG, Sol's not designed as an allrounder but an aggresive rushdown character who can also do this dumb ****
tumblr_50fb4f8c3a96235657380f6dce487de0_ed3aec80_400.gif

I get preferences when GG's got such a memorable cast but if Sol's considered basic, he'd be ridiculous in Smash
 

SharkLord

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That's a pretty bold bet...Ahri couldn't even make it into the League card game smh

If we're doing predictions I'm going with Dark Souls + Crash/Arle.
If it means anything, she at least got featured in what little footage we have of the LoL fighting game
Huh, this still exists. Wonder how many people would argue against a LoL character because "They have their own fighting game so they shouldn't taint the purity of Smash" or whatever
She's also just Iori Yagami now apparently, so she doubles up as our second SNK rep :4pacman:
 

Gnateb

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Wow, a few people think Dark Souls has a chance for an E3 reveal. That would make me happy. Dark Souls is from a Japanese publisher, and has worldwide popularity, so I think it could qualify.

If we do get an Activision Blizzard character, I'm semi-expecting it to be Al'Diabalos. Probably not though. To be frank, despite the direct references to the Devil that are already in Smash (the Cuphead Devil spirit, and the Devil assist trophy, etc.), I have a hard time believing that Nintendo will choose literal satan over Crash.
 
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SharkLord

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But Terry and Sol aren't Shotos? Shoto refers to Shotokan, a Karate style

Terry's moves are improvised by fighting in the streets and half of Sol's buttons have him swing a giant lighter around. I think you mean not wanting a more basic fighter from the series, but in case of GG, Sol's not designed as an allrounder but an aggresive rushdown character who can also do this dumb ****
View attachment 312628
I get preferences when GG's got such a memorable cast but if Sol's considered basic, he'd be ridiculous in Smash
Depends on how lenient you are on the definition of shotoclone. At the most basic form, it refers to a projectile, a gap-closing move, and a rising anti-air move that usually has the dragon punch motion. Terry does fit that, but he goes about it much differently than Ryu. His projectile goes along the ground, he has two approach moves, and his anti-air is a charge move instead of the standard DP; That's reserved for Power Dunk, which I don't think Ryu has an equivalent to.

I think we could say Sol is to Terry what Terry himself is for Ryu, having some degree of inspiration but being a distinct, more rushdown-focused kit. He has some similar moves, like Gun Flame for Power Wave and Bandit Bringer for Power Dunk, but he's ultimately a much zanier unga-bunga guy for a crazier fighting game. Gun Flame doesn't seem to count as a projectile, either, so by definition Sol doesn't fit the shotoclone archetype. Guilty Gear's shoto-type character is actually Ky, who has the projectile, advancing move, and rising anti-air.
 

Pillow

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If it means anything, she at least got featured in what little footage we have of the LoL fighting game

She's also just Iori Yagami now apparently, so she doubles up as our second SNK rep :4pacman:
It was a joke anyway, as Ahri coming to LoR at some point is pretty much inevitable.

Depends on how lenient you are on the definition of shotoclone. At the most basic form, it refers to a projectile, a gap-closing move, and a rising anti-air move that usually has the dragon punch motion. Terry does fit that, but he goes about it much differently than Ryu. His projectile goes along the ground, he has two approach moves, and his anti-air is a charge move instead of the standard DP; That's reserved for Power Dunk, which I don't think Ryu has an equivalent to.

I think we could say Sol is to Terry what Terry himself is for Ryu, having some degree of inspiration but being a distinct, more rushdown-focused kit. He has some similar moves, like Gun Flame for Power Wave and Bandit Bringer for Power Dunk, but he's ultimately a much zanier unga-bunga guy for a crazier fighting game. Gun Flame doesn't seem to count as a projectile, either, so by definition Sol doesn't fit the shotoclone archetype. Guilty Gear's shoto-type character is actually Ky, who has the projectile, advancing move, and rising anti-air.
Sol should come so Sakurai can live the dream of putting a fighting game character with a sword in Smash. Also it's funny to think that Mario is pretty much a Shoto as well.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Depends on how lenient you are on the definition of shotoclone. At the most basic form, it refers to a projectile, a gap-closing move, and a rising anti-air move that usually has the dragon punch motion. Terry does fit that, but he goes about it much differently than Ryu. His projectile goes along the ground, he has two approach moves, and his anti-air is a charge move instead of the standard DP; That's reserved for Power Dunk, which I don't think Ryu has an equivalent to.

I think we could say Sol is to Terry what Terry himself is for Ryu, having some degree of inspiration but being a distinct, more rushdown-focused kit. He has some similar moves, like Gun Flame for Power Wave and Bandit Bringer for Power Dunk, but he's ultimately a much zanier unga-bunga guy for a crazier fighting game. Gun Flame doesn't seem to count as a projectile, either, so by definition Sol doesn't fit the shotoclone archetype. Guilty Gear's shoto-type character is actually Ky, who has the projectile, advancing move, and rising anti-air.
Yeah but the term is used incorrectly regardless how you look at it.

Yeah, Daisuke's design philosophy for the ****** is pretty much "Give him everything except for a way to deal with projectiles properly" so he has a DP, an overhead, grounded projectile, air to air approach, mixups, ****ing everything
 

metalhydra273

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If we're doing predictions I'm going with Dark Souls + Crash/Arle.
I think I'd die if that ends up happening, Dark Souls and Arle are my 2 most wanted. Unfortunately I'm not too confident in either atm, especially Dark Souls, but we've been surprised before. I do think a big main appeal rep similar to the effect of the aforementioned Crash or Dark Souls rep is likely, but the question is who which big franchise will they choose (obviously) and will they reveal fp11 along with it?
 

SharkLord

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It was a joke anyway, as Ahri coming to LoR at some point is pretty much inevitable.


Sol should come so Sakurai can live the dream of putting a fighting game character with a sword in Smash. Also it's funny to think that Mario is pretty much a Shoto as well.
Eeyup. Back in the days of Smash 64 they were a lot more liberal about making stuff up for the sake of a moveset. Mario is Nintendo's mascot and therefore extremely recognizable, shotos are designed to be easy to pick up and play, so logic dictates that Mario is now a shotoclone.
 

Gnateb

Smash Journeyman
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I think I'd die if that ends up happening, Dark Souls and Arle are my 2 most wanted. Unfortunately I'm not too confident in either atm, especially Dark Souls, but we've been surprised before. I do think a big main appeal rep similar to the effect of the aforementioned Crash or Dark Souls rep is likely, but the question is who which big franchise will they choose (obviously) and will they reveal fp11 along with it?
This could be my bias talking, but I'm pretty confident in Dark Souls' chances of getting into the game. In some form, maybe spirits or costumes, at least.
 

metalhydra273

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This could be my bias talking, but I'm pretty confident in Dark Souls' chances of getting into the game. In some form, maybe spirits or costumes, at least.
Oh for sure it's possible. I'm honestly surprised we haven't been getting more spirit event de-confirms lately. I'm honestly just not sure what to expect from Namco. I feel like it'd most likely happen if fp11 was revealed alone sometime after E3, but that's just a gut. I just think there's more likely candidates than Dark Souls, namely inhouse competition Tales, but I'd love to have Souls music in the game.
 

Autumn Breeze

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If I had to predict the final 2 I’d go with Eggman and Master Chief. This is just going off of which companies already got content this pass & the Xbox Game Pass on Switch rumors. Plus Eggman would have a red background color theory ftw! But in all seriousness I have no idea what to expect, I’m just talking out of my ass as usual :4pacman:
 

Gnateb

Smash Journeyman
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Oh yeah. The music is one of the main reasons I want a Dark Souls fighter... Mainly:
-Gwyn, Lord of Cinder (remix)
-Gwyn, Lord of Cinder (original, like with One Winged Angel)
-Great Grey Wolf Sif
-Souls of Fire/A Moment's Peace
-Majula (Remix)
-Soul of Cinder
-Dancer of the Boreal Valley

I mainly think it's weird that DS has an entire Amiibo, and is ironically one if like the very few without a compatible spirit (or any DS representation at all, for that matter)
 
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LiveStudioAudience

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Whether its Eggman, Arle, or some other dark horse, I will say Sega's got a decent shot at having someone. They've had characters in the two previous DLC cycles, and given that Square and Microsoft have doubled dipped in terms of Fighter's Pass, a company like Sega that has arguably an even more consistent relationship with Nintendo feels like an easy source to pull fighters from yet again.
 

SKX31

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It def depends on the character. Sephiroth is basically the Darth Vader of video games but if for some reason the Final Fantasy DLC rep ended up being idk like Vivi, idk if i'd call it a monolith of an inclusion. Chun-Li would def be big IMO but the implication of a traditional FG mechanics character might not make her super popular in the long run.
I honestly think she'd have a decent shot of being popular in the long run though. She usually has a significant casual playerbase in the SF games, and she's not considered super-complicated (IIRC) which gives her a lot of people using her at all levels.

Also, recall this Japanese survey. :ult_terry: was 7th most popular - sure he's DLC and has flashy super moves (something Chun might not have), but it still bodes well for Chun's potential popularity in Ultimate's lifespan. :ultken: and :ultryu: are much lower granted, but Ken's at 59th and Ryu's 71st, with a 30 vote gap. Sure both Ken and Ryu are quite technical, but Ken probably benefits from having flashier combo routes etc. It's also partly because Ryu depends a lot more on confirming into his (Shakunetsu) Hadokens, making playing him on an intermediate level a bit trickier - partly since his Tatsu is a combo finisher / kill move while Ken's Tatsu extends combos.

Ultimategamedata's low-level wi-fi stats (not going to stop using it!) has somewhat similar results: Ryu's down there at 78th (7th least used, with :ultpyra: likely overtaking him in terms of usage soon), Ken is middle-of-the-pack at 45th place, and Terry's the 19th most used character in Wi-Fi.

And finally, the competitive scene. This is also online, so it's going to have some jank (:ultchrom: has a notoriously difficult time online, competitive :ulticeclimbers: mains are super-rare but super-dedicated desynch masters that will covert one grab into like 50 %, which is probably more difficult to escape from online), but this chart is worth noting:



Again, while Ryu's the least used of the three FGC characters, there's a massive jump to Ken and then another big jump to Terry.

Worth noting that in the Street Fighter popularity poll, Chun placed 6th, Ryu 9th and Ken 15th out of 109 characters. Combine that with her being DLC in this scenario, and yeah I'll reiterate that she has a decent-to-pretty-good chance of being popular in the long haul.
 
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Icedragonadam

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Still going with Chun-Li as the big reveal and a Tales rep for the smaller(well more like mid) for the final two.

I don't see popularity as a huge factor for E3 reveals. We got Hero(he's BIG in Japan, but not outside of it and e3 is a western event) and Palutena revealed in the e3 Nintendo Directs.
 
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SharkLord

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Still going with Chun-Li as the big reveal and a Tales rep for the smaller(well more like mid) for the final two.

I don't see popularity as a huge factor for E3 reveals. We got Hero(he's BIG in Japan, but not outside of it and e3 is a western event) and Palutena revealed in the e3 Nintendo Directs.
It should be noted that Hero and Palu came with the massive Smash request Banjo and the endlessly-customizable Miis, respectively. That's what started this listing game in the first place; E3 usually has a big reveal, but it's also had some smaller characters accompany them as part of a dual reveal. The thought process is that this year's E3 will repeat the "Big Buddy, Little Buddy" dynamic.
 
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Pillow

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I honestly think she'd have a decent shot of being popular in the long run though. She usually has a significant casual playerbase in the SF games, and she's not considered super-complicated (IIRC) which gives her a lot of people using her at all levels.

Also, recall this Japanese survey. :ult_terry: was 7th most popular - sure he's DLC and has flashy super moves (something Chun might not have), but it still bodes well for Chun's potential popularity in Ultimate's lifespan. :ultken: and :ultryu: are much lower granted, but Ken's at 59th and Ryu's 71st, with a 30 vote gap. Sure both Ken and Ryu are quite technical, but Ken probably benefits from having flashier combo routes etc. It's also partly because Ryu depends a lot more on confirming into his (Shakunetsu) Hadokens, making playing him on an intermediate level a bit trickier - partly since his Tatsu is a combo finisher / kill move while Ken's Tatsu extends combos.

Ultimategamedata's low-level wi-fi stats (not going to stop using it!) has somewhat similar results: Ryu's down there at 78th (7th least used, with :ultpyra: likely overtaking him in terms of usage soon), Ken is middle-of-the-pack at 45th place, and Terry's the 19th most used character in Wi-Fi.

And finally, the competitive scene. This is also online, so it's going to have some jank (:ultchrom: has a notoriously difficult time online, competitive :ulticeclimbers: mains are super-rare but super-dedicated desynch masters that will covert one grab into like 50 %, which is probably more difficult to escape from online), but this chart is worth noting:



Again, while Ryu's the least used of the three FGC characters, there's a massive jump to Ken and then another big jump to Terry.

Worth noting that in the Street Fighter popularity poll, Chun placed 6th, Ryu 9th and Ken 15th out of 109 characters. Combine that with her being DLC in this scenario, and yeah I'll reiterate that she has a decent-to-pretty-good chance of being popular in the long haul.
Rigged poll. Dan and Ibuki are too low (though it's nice to see my favorite, Cody, make it to top 10)

In regards to Chun Li being Fighter 11, there would be something oddly fitting about the second fighter's pass beginning and ending with a Chinese female fighting game character with popularity that often eclipses the more public face of their game.
Min-Min's inclusion is actually why I don't see Chun-Li coming. I feel they would've opted for a different ARMs character that doesn't share so many themes if Chun was set to appear in the same pass.

It should be noted that Hero and Palu came with the massive Smash request Banjo and the endlessly-customizable Miis, respectively. Taht's what started this listing game in the first place; E3 usually has a big reveal, but it's also had some smaller characters accompany them as part of a dual reveal. The thought process is that this year's E3 will repeat the "Big Buddy, Little Buddy" dynamic.
It should also be noted that the atmosphere surrounding Ultimate reveals feel much different from Smash 4. I personally don't think that neither Palutena nor the Miis would be considered big reveals, as cute as the customizable character gimmick is, but I feel they wouldn't do a small E3 character reveal for Ultimate DLC.
 

SharkLord

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It should also be noted that the atmosphere surrounding Ultimate reveals feel much different from Smash 4. I personally don't think that neither Palutena nor the Miis would be considered big reveals, as cute as the customizable character gimmick is, but I feel they wouldn't do a small E3 character reveal for Ultimate DLC.
I mean
1619302890423.png

When we get stuff like this, I feel like it would get a lot of attention.

Though, it should also be noted that Pac-Man was revealed during E3, but the actual livestream was behind doors for whatever reason. I suppose we could count him as a big reveal, but it's a pretty weird situation. Assuming E3 2021 doesn't have any developer roundtables or whatnot, I think it's safe to say we won't get a repeat of that situation.
 

Peripuff

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My gut is still making me lightly in favour of the possibility of Tails and Chun-Li, though I'm not very confident in this actually happening. I'm just going to wait and see I suppose.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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I think you can point to 2014 E3 as a bit of the transition point between Nintendo's flawed marketing in the Wii U days to what it would eventually become in the era of the Switch. Its a focus on more gimmicky based stuff like Mii's and a well liked (but not necessarily mega hyped) character such as Palutena while also doing a the reveal for a major third party figure like Pac-Man. Its after this that we got stuff like the 50 Fact Extravaganza really built up a lot of momentum for the Wii U version of 4 and to some degree was the blueprint for Smash focused Directs afterward, even more so than the one in April 2014 was.
 
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