Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Clumsyzephyr]

Here is my black horse that I feel has a chance and is not often mentioned:

Velvet from Tales of Berseria. A game from 2016.
She could easily come with the Lloyd's mii costume.
We are still missing a females-only and blade-users only event tournaments in the game.
She's not a character I really want, but she's being slept on despite having a fair shot.
Also I couldn't find a picture of her that was less provocative.

My only issue is that I don't really see why she'd be chosen over another more popular/relevant protagonist. She's not nearly as popular as other protagonists and she's no longer the newest either. That and her character designer doesn't want her appearance altered in any way.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That and her character designer doesn't want her appearance altered in any way.

Citation needed

 

[Idon]

Personally, my scantily clad swordswoman of choice would be 2B, but considering she's not exactly in the running anymore, I suppose its a moot point.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Personally, my scantily clad swordswoman of choice would be 2B, but considering she's not exactly in the running anymore, I suppose its a moot point.

Why? We didn't get a Nier spirit event, and we could get two characters from the same company in the pass, even if it didn't happen yet -and might not happen in the end. Plus if that was really a point we wouldn't have so many people speculating on Master Chief.
Or maybe there's an interview I don't know about?

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

Citation needed

My bad, I remembered incorrectly, the statement was for the western release of berseria and reassuring fans it wouldn't be altered due to censorship.

Tales of Berseria: Velvet's Outfit Won't Be Censored; Producer Thinks that Fans Want the Original Experience

www.dualshockers.com

 

[Louie G.]

I strongly believe this fighters pass is solely composed by the leftovers who couldn't be added in the base game with the exception of Steve, whose development took a lot more time due to his complexity as a character.

In other words: i'll be very surprised if they add a character from a new franchise, let alone from a company not involved with smash already.

My theory on the remaining direction for the pass is informed by this precedent but not dictated. I think straight up suggesting a new franchise is unlikely to appear at all is a bit extreme, although my personal expectations do skew in favor of companies that are already involved.

We know that Steve has been in "talks" for five years (to what degree, we don't really know) and that ARMS and Xenoblade 2 likely would have had a character in base game had Ultimate been given a little more time in the oven. We really know nothing about Sephiroth aside from the theory that FF7 content was "held off" to come with him later on, or something to that extent.

I am still of the belief that some of these characters were negotiated early on, but not everyone. Sakurai saying that he believed "one or two would suffice" or something to that degree, in tandem with Steve's presumably lengthier process convinces me that at the very least we were probably getting Steve no matter what. Sephiroth could go either way really, although it wouldn't surprise me if he took a good deal of time to work out on account of all the different people Sakurai needed to reach out to and negotiate for the music and artwork. As N3ON said before though, it's conjecture and we don't really have anything substantial to inform us one way or the other. I wouldn't say these characters are "scraps" though, they were probably always intended to be DLC.

Min Min and Pyra, on the other hand, feel more to me like characters who could have been added at any moment. These make sense to believe could have been added onto any initially planned DLC by nature of being easy grabs who Sakurai already regretted not being able to implement into Ultimate's base game. These are "scraps" in a sense, but until FP2 was given a full greenlight (which I mean... why wouldn't it, but I digress) I personally don't believe they were going to happen at all. When there was enough confidence to give a full second batch of characters a go, I think it's these two who were added on top of whoever else was always intended to be DLC (at least Steve).

Even if we were to use this to dictate our expectations moving forward, there's always room for something completely different to happen. I think new franchises or companies are certainly possible, albeit I think the bigger names and bigger companies are generally gonna be the characters who took longer to work out and potentially smaller / cheaper characters or those who have a close relationship with Nintendo could really have been added at any time. Sega / Capcom / Namco characters, smaller Japanese studios like Koei Tecmo or ArcSys, indie characters... I dunno. I think there are plenty of feasible, valid predictions who still fall under a more conservative or economical lens. I don't know how many of them I'd expect, but the options are still there.

 

[Will]

My only issue is that I don't really see why she'd be chosen over another more popular/relevant protagonist. She's not nearly as popular as other protagonists and she's no longer the newest either. That and her character designer doesn't want her appearance altered in any way.

Substantiate your claims because I've never heard of this.

My bad, I remembered incorrectly, the statement was for the western release of berseria and reassuring fans it wouldn't be altered due to censorship.

Tales of Berseria: Velvet's Outfit Won't Be Censored; Producer Thinks that Fans Want the Original Experience

www.dualshockers.com

Okay you were too fast clearly. Also, that doesn't really mean anything on that end?

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

Substantiate your claims because I've never heard of this.


Okay you were too fast clearly. Also, that doesn't really mean anything on that end?

I messed up and corrected my mistake, what's your deal? You're always very hostile towards me.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

I messed up and corrected my mistake, what's your deal? You're always very hostile towards me.

Because you're a third rate duelist with a fourth rate de... Oh wait wrong Yu Gi Oh character.

 

[Will]

I messed up and corrected my mistake, what's your deal? You're always very hostile towards me.

I think you're just taking things out of context man.

 

[Ivander]

My bad, I remembered incorrectly, the statement was for the western release of berseria and reassuring fans it wouldn't be altered due to censorship.

Tales of Berseria: Velvet's Outfit Won't Be Censored; Producer Thinks that Fans Want the Original Experience

www.dualshockers.com

At some point, are we going to see Drake memes about video game characters having revealing outfits not because of their creator's tastes or because it's important for the character, but to ensure their character has a lot of hardships getting into or doesn't get into Super Smash Bros.?

And not because having a decent outfit would mean they wouldn't need to deal with censorship in the first place.

 

[3BitSaurus]

People talk about Crash or Master Chief for the potential second western character, but not going to lie I am jumping on the League train, specifically Ahri.

Oh hey, want me to add you to the list in the Ahri thread?

And yeah, at this point I'm pretty much going full in too. Especially because it's hard for me to see a LoL rep ending the pass. Either we're next or we aren't in at all, methinks

I've actually been leaning towards LoL a little lately myself. Though, I don't really know much about it, so I'm not really in a position to start the convos or keep them going. All I know is Ahri, a couple other names like Lux and Ryze, a couple items that reference Touhou (Of course), and the fact that there's about 150 characters, give or take, and it's easy to joke about the horrifying LoL guessing games. I suppose there's some room to talk about LoL, though.

Since you're the Touhou guy, I just wanna say that if we get Lux, we'd technically have Marisa in Smash before Reimu.

I'm not super-familiar with LoL either (its older sibling / rival Dota 2 is my forte - having played that a lot between 2012 and 2017, and I still watch that), but I do have some familiarity with it thanks to having watched a lot of LoL and having delved into some of its characters. Ahri's been at the center stage ever since she made her first appearance in (I believe) Season 2-ish (if not early Season 1) - partly because she's considered one of the most dynamic and exciting characters to play (the other reasons... well, yeah ). Some other champions of note include Ryze (one of the centerpieces of the initial reveal), Renekton (one of the most popular tanks, partly because he's a ****ing croc), Jynx (very popular Harley Quinn esque character and centerpiece of LoL's marketing), Draven (LoL's resident "If Heihachi was even more of an egomaniac meme" character) and of course .

LoL has a pretty decent shot, but it would be quite tight timing for Riot / Tencent because Tencent only started to collab with Nintendo seriously around the 2017 / 2018 window. It depends IMHO on a number of factors - if Smash Bros is indeed one topic that Nintendo and Tencent / Riot discussed or even partnered over when they entered talks being the primary factor. Now I would not be surprised if Smash was brought up in the talks - and not just because Riot is one of many, many studios that would gladly take the opportunity, but also since Tencent's MO is heavily based around multi-pronged projects, collabs and promotions (Pokemon Unite is certainly a part of this, as is the Switch's release in China - which Tencent handles).

I honestly find it difficult to call whether or not such talks lead anywhere in regards to Smash, and it's a main reason I can't say LoL's a frontrunner. Still, I definetely count it as a dark horse - especially for E3.

Of course, I'm reminding 3BitSaurus because he's the guy that's most familiar with it (2 support threads after all).

Yeah, even if I'm partial to Ahri, I'd say there's around a good dozen options that would make sense. Other names include Annie, Lux, Yasuo, Ekko, and a few others.

LoL kinda fits the timeline of when Volume 2 was supposedly picked, and with Nintendo now officially entering the MOBA market, it means they are at least aware of how popular it is. But regardless, I do think a LoL rep will be a possibility in future Smash games (and a not-impossible-but-not-very-probable Volume 3).

Not to mention, the LoL thread's opening post details some things Riot has in their favor for those curious - including the new LoL Switch games, which I'm guessing also required some talks with Nintendo; as well as an internal mod with LoL characters, which implies a heavy interest in the franchise on Riot's part.

Welcome to the Summoners' Train. We have no brakes, and it's only 30 seconds until minions spawn.

And 10 seconds until someone feeds.

 

[Idon]

Why? We didn't get a Nier spirit event, and we could get two characters from the same company in the pass, even if it didn't happen yet -and might not happen in the end. Plus if that was really a point we wouldn't have so many people speculating on Master Chief.
Or maybe there's an interview I don't know about?

Personally, I've my doubts on the same company getting in the same pass twice. It seems to me for every "grouping" of newcomers they nab one character they really like per 3rd party company and then proceed onwards from there.

Master Chief is often the exception to most people's speculation because well, Halo is an exceptional franchise. If there WAS any exception to what our preconceived ideas on what Nintendo would do or choose, I would place Master Chief as the one character that could do it. I mean, I don't think he's getting in, but there's no denying he's huge and for as much as Nier exploded in popularity over the past 4 years, it's not even a fraction of a fraction of what Halo is.

As for the lack of spirit events, I'd never ascribe to a character inclusion as to what more easily could be attributed to simply being not present at all. This didn't hold true for Byleth but well, a broken clock strikes twice a day and all that.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

My theory on the remaining direction for the pass is informed by this precedent but not dictated. I think straight up suggesting a new franchise is unlikely to appear at all is a bit extreme, although my personal expectations do skew in favor of companies that are already involved.

We know that Steve has been in "talks" for five years (to what degree, we don't really know) and that ARMS and Xenoblade 2 likely would have had a character in base game had Ultimate been given a little more time in the oven. We really know nothing about Sephiroth aside from the theory that FF7 content was "held off" to come with him later on, or something to that extent.

I am still of the belief that some of these characters were negotiated early on, but not everyone. Sakurai saying that he believed "one or two would suffice" or something to that degree, in tandem with Steve's presumably lengthier process convinces me that at the very least we were probably getting Steve no matter what. Sephiroth could go either way really, although it wouldn't surprise me if he took a good deal of time to work out on account of all the different people Sakurai needed to reach out to and negotiate for the music and artwork. As N3ON said before though, it's conjecture and we don't really have anything substantial to inform us one way or the other. I wouldn't say these characters are "scraps" though, they were probably always intended to be DLC.

Min Min and Pyra, on the other hand, feel more to me like characters who could have been added at any moment. These make sense to believe could have been added onto any initially planned DLC by nature of being easy grabs who Sakurai already regretted not being able to implement into Ultimate's base game. These are "scraps" in a sense, but until FP2 was given a full greenlight (which I mean... why wouldn't it, but I digress) I personally don't believe they were going to happen at all. When there was enough confidence to give a full second batch of characters a go, I think it's these two who were added on top of whoever else was always intended to be DLC (at least Steve).

Even if we were to use this to dictate our expectations moving forward, there's always room for something completely different to happen. I think new franchises or companies are certainly possible, albeit I think the bigger names and bigger companies are generally gonna be the characters who took longer to work out and potentially smaller / cheaper characters or those who have a close relationship with Nintendo could really have been added at any time. Sega / Capcom / Namco characters, smaller Japanese studios like Koei Tecmo or ArcSys, indie characters... I dunno. I think there are plenty of feasible, valid predictions who still fall under a more conservative or economical lens. I don't know how many of them I'd expect, but the options are still there.

I really don't think the theory is . Arms and Xenoblade 2 have been directly mentioned by Sakurai, we know that Steve was already somehow planned in 2015, as well as rumors we got since the game's release, and I already stated it previously, but I've been screaming in the darkness for months that Sephiroth was coming due to the lack of spirits for FFVII in the base game and that Hero's inclusion confirmed Square being ok working with Nintendo.

But there's no point in using that theory anymore anyway, because we have no characters left who could be used with it, be it using Sakurai's words, Vergeben's rumors or some clues from the base game.

I really believe that the theory holds water. But we cannot use it to predict anyone anymore because we have no clues left.

If for example, Crash is added, they might have planned him since 2015 but except if an Activision guy says it, we'll never know.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

My Dark Horse pick for one of the last two is absolutely a Dark Souls Character. It being one of Namco’s absolutely most ludicrous properties is enough but that’s not taking into account just how much it would shake up character speculation.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

My Dark Horse pick for one of the last two is absolutely a Dark Souls Character. It being one of Namco’s absolutely most ludicrous properties is enough but that’s not taking into account just how much it would shake up character speculation.

If it happens, I'm gonna have to git gud at parries, 'cause there's no way we get Dark Souls without a special parry mechanic.

I don't know why, but letting go of shield at the right time is way harder to me than pressing the button at the right time.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Is there someone that's good at editing that can edit what leggings would look like on velvet crowe?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

If for example, Crash is added, they might have planned him since 2015 but except if an Activision guy says it, we'll never know.

It'd actually be around 2017 since that's when Crash's five year plan started.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Is there someone that's good at editing that can edit what leggings would look like on velvet crowe?

Someone made a mod of it.

The one on the far right.

 

[CannonStreak]

It'd actually be around 2017 since that's when Crash's five year plan started.

Wait. How would Activision even know of Smash Bros. Ultimate then? Nintendo is a different company altogether, and Ultimate was not announced until 2018. Just curious.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wait. How would Activision even know of Smash Bros. Ultimate then? Nintendo is a different company altogether, and Ultimate was not announced until 2018. Just curious.

The hypothetical is that Nintendo already tried getting a deal with Activision then that just so happened to fall through

 

[Perkilator]

It'd actually be around 2017 since that's when Crash's five year plan started.

But then…hypothetically speaking, wouldn’t that technically make Crash eligible for base game? Because I wanna live in that timeline either way

 

[RileyXY1]

The hypothetical is that Nintendo already tried getting a deal with Activision then that just so happened to fall through

If that's the case, then either Activision asked for too much money or they wanted someone else in Smash instead, or it could be something else.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The big mystery question is what, if any, leftover fighters are left for the DLC. Hypothetically we could have a scenario where 4 (or maybe 5) of the characters in the second pass were essentially to make up for missed timing/opportunities, thus now leaving 1-2 fighters essentially as bonuses that get in because Sakurai simply has the chance to do so. They'd more likely be from companies already in Smash just for the sake of ease of communication, but new franchises could be entirely on the table.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

The only real prediction I have for the last 2 is I don’t think it’s Crash and Chief. I think 2 western leaning characters to end the pass seems improbable.

I could easily see Crash and Arle, Chief and Adol, or something like what we saw at E3 2019.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Wait. How would Activision even know of Smash Bros. Ultimate then? Nintendo is a different company altogether, and Ultimate was not announced until 2018. Just curious.

Maybe 2017 is a little too early but I would assume they would think like everyone else and that Nintendo would eventually release another Smash game for their new console.

 

[Technomage]

The big mystery question is what, if any, leftover fighters are left for the DLC. Hypothetically we could have a scenario where 4 (or maybe 5) of the characters in the second pass were essentially to make up for missed timing/opportunities, thus now leaving 1-2 fighters essentially as bonuses that get in because Sakurai simply has the chance to do so. They'd more likely be from companies already in Smash just for the sake of ease of communication, but new franchises could be entirely on the table.

I've come up with a couple: A Gen 8 Pokemon and a Sonic Forces character.

 

[Arcanir]

The hypothetical is that Nintendo already tried getting a deal with Activision then that just so happened to fall through

I always found that hypothetical kind of odd. Crash was dormant in the public eye up until 2016 when the N'Sane Trilogy was announced at E3, Ultimate's base roster was pegged in December 2015/early 2016, a few months before then. At the time Crash probably wouldn't have been on the radar since he wasn't being used, he makes more sense as a later DLC candidate since he's now back in action and with the success of the Trilogy on his back.

 

[CannonStreak]

I've come up with a couple: A Gen 8 Pokemon and a Sonic Forces character.

A Sonic Forces character? Like Infinite or the Avatar character? Ooooh, very scary!

 

[Technomage]

A Sonic Forces character? Like Infinite or the Avatar character? Ooooh, very scary!

You got that right. Of course, any second Sonic character could be considered a loose-ends addition (due to Sonic being a bit lacking in Smash content), but Infinite and the Avatar seem a lot closer to that criteria.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Spoiler

Congratulations on the 15th anniversary of MOTHER3 ...! !! !! A really really great game full of family love ...!#MOTHER3_15th

MOTHER3 15周年おめでとうございます…！！！
家族愛に満ち溢れた本当に本当に素晴らしいゲーム…！ #MOTHER3_15th pic.twitter.com/YsDk26FFMY

— ゴンザレス・G・橋・不動 (@gonzarez1938) April 19, 2021

 

[Louie G.]

The big mystery question is what, if any, leftover fighters are left for the DLC.

And that's the other thing about the leftover theories - after Min Min and Pyra / Mythra, we've pretty much fulfilled exactly what Sakurai had expressed he regretted omitting from base game. Anything else is unsubstantial speculation that pretty much any character could fall into if you wanted. I think the strongest case was definitely for Monster Hunter and that was shut down not long after the leftovers stuff was beginning to gain traction.

Like, maybe we'll learn that one of these remaining characters was discussed for years similarly to Steve. Or maybe they'll just be an off the cuff character from some random Nintendo game or a company who just felt like tossing Nintendo a character to play around with for cheap. If I had to guess we're done with the characters who can explicitly be deemed as "leftovers" in quite the same way.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Well there's:

Chun-Li(5ch rumor that has yet to be disprovened)
Lloyd(see Chun-li)
Yuri(see Chun-li)
King Boo?(No Luigi's Mansion 3 spirit event)
Crash(If that plan rumor is true)
Porky Minch(His lack of a spirit)
Ryu Hayabusa(Very low chance though)

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Spoiler

MOTHER3 15周年おめでとうございます…！！！
家族愛に満ち溢れた本当に本当に素晴らしいゲーム…！ #MOTHER3_15th pic.twitter.com/YsDk26FFMY

— ゴンザレス・G・橋・不動 (@gonzarez1938) April 19, 2021

Congratulations on the 15th anniversary of MOTHER3 ...! !! !! A really really great game full of family love ...!#MOTHER3_15th

I thought the Spoiler Tag was for a Smash leak...

I came here to speculate not to feel

 

[cashregister9]

Well there's:

Chun-Li(5ch rumor that has yet to be disprovened)
Lloyd(see Chun-li)
Yuri(see Chun-li)
King Boo?(No Luigi's Mansion 3 spirit event)
Crash(If that plan rumor is true)
Porky Minch(His lack of a spirit)
Ryu Hayabusa(Very low chance though)

You just proved his point
4 of them are from rumors.
2 of them have potential explanations for why the content doesn't exist (Luigi has the new poltergust and Porky has the absolutely safe capsule)
I don't even know where you got the Hayabusa thing from.

 

[7NATOR]

Well there's:

Chun-Li(5ch rumor that has yet to be disprovened)
Lloyd(see Chun-li)
Yuri(see Chun-li)
King Boo?(No Luigi's Mansion 3 spirit event)
Crash(If that plan rumor is true)
Porky Minch(His lack of a spirit)
Ryu Hayabusa(Very low chance though)

I don't understand how people see Porky's spirit being missing as a plus at this point. If anything it's a con since they've shown to Upgrade spirits to Playable characters with Min Min and Pyra/Mythra.

It would be better to just assume the Absolute Safe Capsule was supposed to be Porky, otherwise it just seems Porky wasn't even important enough to get a Spirit

 

[PeridotGX]

The Absolutely Safe Capsule was absolutely a joke. Them using the Empty sprite was as intentional as them using a fan sprite for the Masked Man.

 

[cothero]

I think "likely" went out the window a long time ago, and now there's "maybe", "probably not" and "definitely not". But that's just me.


That's why we got Dante as FP5, because, as we had concluded around Terry, last pass's theme was all third-parties.

It is unwise to jump to conclusions such as these.

That's why i started the sentence with "I STRONGLY BELIEVE" instead of I'M CERTAIN".

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Yeah, but the pass ending with an advertising character that is Porky for the English release of Mother 3 is absolutely something I can live with.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Hehehehehe... Dark horse picks, huh? Here's one that would almost exist PURELY to upset people

Hehehehe. Yeah. Totally gonna add "Misty and Starmie" for one of em.

You go "But why?"

Pokemon Company goes "We sold our soul to the mobile gaming devil, please buy our microtransactions! Only paid gems count!"

You go "Of ALL the Pokemon characters you could pick, THIS one! I mean, you could have added-"

Pokemon Company retorts "NOSTALGIA MAAAAAAAAAAAAN she's so nostalgic, gen 1 maaaaaaaaan"

And that's as good an explanation as you and your family, past, present and future, are gonna get.

I've come up with a couple: A Gen 8 Pokemon and a Sonic Forces character.

See, you COULD get your playable Eggman... WITH the destroyed city and Death Egg Robos in the background and still have it fit "Leftover Theory".

Of COURSE, this depends on how closely they'd work with SEGA on this. VERY tinfoil hat stuff here but like... I remember being surprised that Smash Wii U had the Lost World stage when Lost World was like, SO new at the time. Like, maybe they do work with SEGA and have it tie into a NEW Sonic game coming out? Assuming it's like oh.... let's hypothetically say "Sonic Rush 3" just to upset somebody on the internet... then Blaze the Cat isn't off the table, and she'd come with a stage from that game. That's one way.


But yeah, Sonic Forces man... not unlike Xenoblade 2 base game, it had a couple spirits (Chaos and Infinite), a couple music tracks, nothing more.... now suddenly it comes back with an Eggman Empire vengeance hahahahahahaha. People will be "tortured for months" hahaha.