Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[I.D.]

Base game Ultimate had no third-party costumes, period. So no, it doesn't feel particularly odd because they only started showing up with DLC to begin with,

That's my point. I've seen some people point to a lack of SF costumes as suspicious, but it really isn't.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I think the logic is that Square doesn't want people to say one of their characters and go "Hey that's the dude from Smash!" Though there are examples of joke suggestions becoming very popular, like the demand for Magneton in Pokken and Kirby Battle Royale's poll having Sleep Kirby as the winner so I guess it's not unprecedented?

Even then, it's still extremely nonsensical because no matter the situation, it's win-win for Square.

If Sakurai went to them asking for Geno and the demand could translate into a new game, Smash would be the perfect way to measure that. Not to mention introduce the character to a new audiece who could then buy said game.

If not, well, Nintendo is paying them for the content that would otherwise be collecting dust on their shelf.

So in the end it just screams "I dunno what to say so I'll give a bull**** excuse".

 

[Shroob]

There's also the fact that we don't have a single mii costume from some other 3rd party series like Metal Gear, Bayonetta and Castlevania, and nobody thinks of it as particularly odd.

It's more that people are waiting to see what happens.

Both Capcom and Namco have been shown to just throw their costumes in wherever as filler, so it could go that way in the future, but we've also seen the inverse where they will hold onto costumes if there's a fighter in the same pass, like with Joker and the Sonic ones, or Seph and the Square ones.


At this point, there's no right or wrong answer here, it's a "Wait and see what happens next". Will the next character be a Capcom rep? Or will the Capcom and Lloyd costumes get chucked into a random CP? Who can really say one way or another?

It's a question that can only truly be answered by waiting.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That's my point. I've seen some people point to a lack of SF costumes as suspicious, but it really isn't.

I've seen people complain about how songs are only from SF2.

But like, the SF2 themes are deeply attached to the characters, to the point where they always bring their respective themes when they show up in anything, so it's not SF2 songs, but songs of the franchise as a whole.

Like, yeah, stuff from SF3 and SF4 would be really cool, but to say that the franchise isn't well-represented in its music right now is a lie.

 

[Shroob]

That's my point. I've seen some people point to a lack of SF costumes as suspicious, but it really isn't.

To be fair, I've always said that the "Lack of SF miis" is "Tinfoil hat" levels of conspiracy. I think that goes without saying I'm not actually factoring that into discussion, it's more a

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Even then, it's still extremely nonsensical because no matter the situation, it's win-win for Square.

If Sakurai went to them asking for Geno and the demand could translate into a new game, Smash would be the perfect way to measure that. Not to mention introduce the character to a new audiece who could then buy said game.

If not, well, Nintendo is paying them for the content that would otherwise be collecting dust on their shelf.

So in the end it just screams "I dunno what to say so I'll give a bull**** excuse".

Again, this is probably fear of having Smash be the main thing associated for the character, especially with joke suggestions being very popular. A Geno game would be "Hey guys, the character from Smash has his own game!" This is very different to a character with an already established popularity joining Smash. Assuming that DLC sales include royalties, why test the waters with your obscure character you haven't used in 20 years when you have options you know are genuinely popular and are a guaranteed success? It makes sense as a business decision and as a brand decision



Sidenote I just remembered Kamen Rider had a huge anniversary 2 years ago for the Heisei era of the series and held polls for merch of the winners. One of the winners was a flat character who appeared in 2 episodes and died and that character got acknowledged in the grand epic finale of that whole anniversary season. Another example of joke suggestions being popular.

 

[Dinoman96]

I honestly really doubt Square-Enix is the obstacle into making Geno playable. It's just Nintendo that doesn't want him for obvious reasons. And despite that interview from like almost five years ago, I don't think Sakurai is really that interested at this point, either.

 

[RouffWestie]

MonHuns situation is closer to Min Min and Sephiroth, where their franchises have some content in the base game, but for one reason or another is lacking as much as would have been expected (especially in FF7s case.).
This is an extreme oversimplification becayse of how many factors play into who gets added to Smash, so no I can't say it's an "answer." Its really just something I take into account after seeing how the DLC choices have been so far.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Slendernan? Is there some horrifying eldritch grandma? Tell me more, person I've never trusted before

I would but the slug alien baby they implanted in my spinal cord would explode thus coating my insides with acid and killing me. That would prevent me from ascending to the sweetness afterlife known as Candy Land. I prefer my afterlife surrounded by my 1,000 lollipops and candy houses.

 

[Shroob]

At the end of the day, we can't say one way or another if the missing Monster Hunter and Tales of Miis mean anything yet, there's just inconclusive evidence at best, and a lack of evidence at worst.


Yeah, Namco and Capcom costumes tend to get chucked in wherever to fill a space

But at the same time, we have precedent for them to hold company Miis to include them in the same pack as that company's character.


It could go either way in regards to these two, and until we actually know who the next character is, it's impossible to say one way or another. We could get the Mon Hun Miis with no Capcom character, we could get a Capcom character with the Mon Hun Miis but Lloyd as well, we could get a random character with Lloyd and no sight of the Mon Hun costumes, hell, we could get a character that doesn't bring either back in CP9.

We just gotta wait this one out for a better understanding, that's all.


I would definitely say that in Lloyd's case, the 'evidence' is slightly more damning, since both Heihachi and Gil appeared in CP6 and 7, but who knows, maybe we're just getting a ****ton of Tales of costumes. We can't say.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

You know, no matter what Capcom rep we get, fans of other Capcom series won't be happy and would be upset.

Let's say we get Dante, others get upset or salty that it wasn't Phoenix Wright, Amaterasu, Monster Hunter, a Resident Evil rep, Zero, Frank West, Arthur, Morrigan... you name it.
(The 3 big requested ones are Dante, Monster Hunter and Phoenix Wright.)

It's insane how competitive the "Capcom slot" is.

Unbelievable! What a crazy coincidence, there's a guy on gamefaqs who has the exact same opinion as you... even his wording is very similar...

wait... what if it's not a coincidence...

 

[Guybrush20X6]

How will they fill dlc contents though? I think SF is pretty much well covered as right now. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Well it is a bit lacking in music that isn't from Street Fighter 2 and it's new mixes are a bit limited with only Vega/Balrog/Bullfighter & Guile getting brand new ones.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Again, this is probably fear of having Smash be the main thing associated for the character, especially with joke suggestions being very popular. A Geno game would be "Hey guys, the character from Smash has his own game!" This is very different to a character with an already established popularity joining Smash. Assuming that DLC sales include royalties, why test the waters with your obscure character you haven't used in 20 years when you have options you know are genuinely popular and are a guaranteed success? It makes sense as a business decision and as a brand decision

True, but if that's the case it has nothing to do with "doubting the legitimacy of fan support", it's more that other characters (like Sephiroth) are more popular and therefore would give them more money.

That's a reasoning that actually makes sense as a business decision - unlike "we don't want our characters to be known as a Smash character despite the fact that we're doing nothing with him and would lose literally nothing from him being known because of Smash".

 

[Deleted member]

MonHuns situation is closer to Min Min and Sephiroth, where their franchises have some content in the base game, but for one reason or another is lacking as much as would have been expected (especially in FF7s case.)

I find it odd we have Rathalos in the base game but 8 challenger packs later we still haven’t gotten the Monster Hunter costumes. Especially when they would’ve made perfect filler for Byleth. It makes me think there’s a Capcom character in the pipeline, and I’m leaning towards the Hunter themselves.

 

[Nekoo]

Hey, since we're bringing back a 5ch leak from the early days of DLC speculation, why not take another gander at the "Ballot result rumor"?
A translation of the leak was posted by @Ayumi Tachibana in the old speculation thread almost two years ago




Now, it's obvious that this leak it's highly suspicious since it's highly unlikely that some rando on the internet would know the result of the Smash ballot, plus this undoubtedly didn't have very accurate information regarding the DLC since none of the characters from the rumor mill that he heard got in (at least for now). And the bit about no one from already represented titles is just plain wrong.

With that being said, some of the bits are fascinating, mainly the fact that the Tales of rumor about Velvet being the fighter and Lloyd and yuri being Mii Costumes.
Plus it's curious that the characters that were rumored and that he mentioned here would end up having some kind of role later, with Resi receiving a Spirit Event and Nakoruru receiving a Mii Costume and being featured in Terry's trailer.

He also mentioned that apparently, Marvel characters received a ton of votes in the ballot, which I found curious because months later Sakurai would mention Iron man alongside Goku as non-video game characters that are requested a lot.
And of course, this is another repeat of the Sora story, though since this leaked was posted months after the Seven Square leaks and the Chun leak it's possible that he was just piggybacking off those ones.

Again, while this leak has some interesting parts, I'll be the first one to admit that it's very, VERY shaky. But like I said, another look at it just for fun wouldn't many any harm, right?

It's already fake because we know now that Sora WAS brought on the table for Ultimate/FP1? (We don't know which one) By Imran Khan but that it fell through somehow.
Time to bring my Sora fan-google and say that Sora might be the next Steve in term of "negociation took years for it to happens", whenever it's if the talks worked for this pass, or if he will have to wait next Smash game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

True, but if that's the case it has nothing to do with "doubting the legitimacy of fan support", it's more that other characters (like Sephiroth) are more popular and therefore would give them more money.

That's a reasoning that actually makes sense as a business decision - unlike "we don't want our characters to be known as a Smash character despite the fact that we're doing nothing with him and would lose literally nothing from him being known because of Smash".

I probably poorly worded it then because it makes sense to me why Square wouldn't want to test the waters to see if Geno's a genuine request or another typical kooky joke request

Unbelievable! What a crazy coincidence, there's a guy on gamefaqs who has the exact same opinion as you... even his wording is very similar...


wait... what if it's not a coincidence...

View attachment 296494

I don't know what's funnier, the plagiarism or the fact Capcom fans are typically very fond of other Capcom properties meaning the plagiarised post isn't even accurate

 

[TwiceEXE]

It's already fake because we know now that Sora WAS brought on the table for Ultimate/FP1? (We don't know which one) By Imran Khan but that it fell through somehow.
Time to bring my Sora fan-google and say that Sora might be the next Steve in term of "negociation took years for it to happens", whenever it's if the talks worked for this pass, or if he will have to wait next Smash game.

Wasn't Imran referencing Smash 4 when he said that? Which is why he still predicted Sora (or Master Chief) as a DLC character because he thought Nintendo would try again.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I probably poorly worded it then because it makes sense to me why Square wouldn't want to test the waters to see if Geno's a genuine request or another typical kooky joke request

That's the thing: it shouldn't even matter to Square whether or not it's a joke request in the first place, because they would still be getting money from a property they haven't used in 20 years and probably can't use again because it's related to Nintendo.

That is what's nonsensical to me. It would be denying money because... you don't want a character you have no future plans for to be associated with Smash?

Now, if you were to say that other characters are higher on Nintendo's priority list and would make more money? That makes way more sense as a business decision, because in this case the company is... well, choosing the option that benefits them the most.

That's my point, really.

 

[Nekoo]

Wasn't Imran referencing Smash 4 when he said that? Which is why he still predicted Sora (or Master Chief) as a DLC character because he thought Nintendo would try again.

Damn, you might be right. All I remember since it happened back in January was that, Sora WAS definitely brought on the table and Imran still think that Sora or Master Chief will be one of the DLC

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's the thing: it shouldn't even matter to Square whether or not it's a joke request in the first place, because they would still be getting money from a property they haven't used in 20 years and probably can't use again because it's related to Nintendo.

That is what's nonsensical to me. It would be denying money because... you don't want a character you have no future plans for to be associated with Smash?

Now, if you were to say that other characters are higher on Nintendo's priority list and would make more money? That makes way more sense as a business decision, because in this case the company is... well, choosing the option that benefits them the most.

That's my point, really.

I see it like this. Do you want to make some money for a property you won't use, or make a lot of money for a property you'll never abandon? Especially if this joke suggestion worries exist, because not everyone saying the joke suggestion would buy it. Like, say people memed requests for Dr. Goomba Tower for Smash or whatever. Would the people jokingly saying that actually buy it? That's why there's concern

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Capcom fans are typically very fond of other Capcom properties

You're not alone thinking that, someone actually answered the exact same thing to the op lol...

wait...

Spoiler

 

[3BitSaurus]

I see it like this. Do you want to make some money for a property you won't use, or make a lot of money for a property you'll never abandon? Especially if this joke suggestion worries exist, because not everyone saying the joke suggestion would buy it. Like, say people memed requests for Dr. Goomba Tower for Smash or whatever. Would the people jokingly saying that actually buy it? That's why there's concern

Yeah, but regardless, it's still some money you would be getting for a property you'll never use again. Some money is still more than no money.

Basically, the way I see it is:

"We'd rather use other properties that would give us more money and promotion for our active brands." -> Makes perfect sense as an argument from SE against Geno

"We'd rather get no money at all from a brand we'll never use again otherwise because we're worried about its brand image." -> Makes zero sense as an argument from SE against Geno

 

[spicynun]

I think the weirdest thing with Monster Hunter was that there was apparently a separate folder for its music but now it's just in OTHER. I know many are jumping on the MH train for the next rep, but I'm still not currently convinced. I do think MH and Lloyd are the most likely to break the 'third party mii costumes from smash 4 not getting upgraded to fighter' pattern but I can just as easily see them randomly returning with no associated fighter.

 

[Ornl]

But after Ken, a 3rd SF character just doesn't have the impact nor the surprise factor in me.
SF already has a buttload of representation.

And Chun-li would be the 4th Takashi Nishiyama rep after Ryu, Ken and Terry :S

 

[Wunderwaft]

And Chun-li would be the 4th Takashi Nishiyama rep after Ryu, Ken and Terry :S

Nishiyama only worked on the first SF and Chun-Li didn't debut until the second game.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

These are the characters I most want for this Fighters Pass. I couldn't do the same font style as the first 3 because GIMP didn't have access to it.

 

[Nekoo]

"We'd rather get no money at all from a brand we'll never use again otherwise because we're worried about its brand image." -> Makes zero sense as an argument from SE against Geno

Ohoho.... OHOHOHO.

You truly underestimate how absolutely ****ing stupid companies are about this...Trust me.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah, but regardless, it's still some money you would be getting for a property you'll never use again. Some money is still more than no money.

Basically, the way I see it is:

"We'd rather use other properties that would give us more money and promotion for our active brands." -> Makes perfect sense as an argument from SE against Geno

"We'd rather get no money at all from a brand we'll never use again otherwise because we're worried about its brand image." -> Makes zero sense as an argument from SE against Geno

Call it corporate cynicism but that's a genuine reason why so many anti-consumer practises exist. Because the companies don't just want some money but a lot of it. Guess we'll just have to disagree here because our stances boil down to what we deem realistic here

 

[Ornl]

Nishiyama only worked on the first SF and Chun-Li didn't debut until the second game.

Oh, no creation of a woman for him in either series, my apologies.

 

[Jerry98]

New thread? Server problems I guess?

 

[3BitSaurus]

Ohoho.... OHOHOHO.

You truly underestimate how absolutely ****ing stupid companies are about this...Trust me.

To be fair, it's not that I'm saying companies don't make stupid decisions.

All I'm saying is that it's a stupid decision.

Call it corporate cynicism but that's a genuine reason why so many anti-consumer practises exist. Because the companies don't just want some money but a lot of it. Guess we'll just have to disagree here because our stances boil down to what we deem realistic here

True. Though I guess in my argument it's less about realism and more about what I think makes sense from a profit-based view.

Agree to disagree, then.

 

[Deleted member]

People are talking about Mii Costumes rinnow, so that's fun.


You know, River City got a spirit event back in January, and during the Min Min presentation, Sakurai did say there will be adjustments to Spirit Battles pertaining characters with a DLC Mii Costume like Cuphead. Something tells me 1 of the final 3 characters will bring a Kunio Mii Costume with them, maybe say like Billy & Jimmy from Double Dragon since both series are owned by Arc System Works and would fit a mostly retro Mii Costume pack.

 

[3BitSaurus]

People are talking about Mii Costumes rinnow, so that's fun.


You know, River City got a spirit event back in January, and during the Min Min presentation, Sakurai did say there will be adjustments to Spirit Battles pertaining characters with a DLC Mii Costume like Cuphead. Something tells me 1 of the final 3 characters will bring a Kunio Mii Costume with them, maybe say like Bimmy & Jimmy from Double Dragon since both series are owned by Arc System Works and would fit a mostly retro Mii Costume pack.

Fixed.

But really, it makes a lot of sense. At this point, I have to wonder why we haven't got stuff like RCR costumes or an Undertale Spirit event - seems like this "retro-fitting" of Mii Costumes would work nicely for them.

 

[zumaddy]

Would anyone else be happy with some of their not-likely most wanteds getting a costume? Klonoa has such a low chance that if a costume with his cap and ears came with a Namco character I'd be overjoyed.

 

[Faso115]

Pretty sure the reason Geno is always sidelined or avoided isnt because of Square, its because of Nintendo themselves.

They usually misuse their own characters,best excemplified with K. Rool, do do you think Geno would be an exception? Hell no

 

[Megadoomer]

When it comes to the Capcom wars, I'm siding with Dante. I didn't even play Devil May Cry until roughly four years ago, but I had a ton of fun with it, and there's so much potential for Dante that I've pretty much written four separate movesets for the guy (and a moveset for Vergil) by this point. (plus, having Dante vs. Bayonetta in an official capacity would be great)

Even if they just went with the basics like with Bayonetta (his default sword and guns, and maybe some kind of mechanic like Style Swap or Devil Trigger to make him stand out), there'd be more than enough to work with, even without getting into his weapons from DMC3, 4, and 5. (though you could easily make several different movesets using combinations of weapons from those games)

 

[Deleted member]

I really hope the Sephiroth challenge is a one time thing because it’s pretty barebones. I’d rather not wait a week for the actual update just so people can fight a glorified level 9 CPU with slightly more health than you. It’s pretty telling that the funnest part is clearing it in 2 seconds and posting on social media and not the actual challenge. Although it does speak to the popularity a future time trial leaderboard would have. Like at the very least they could’ve roided him up on Spirits or something for hard mode. I’m pretty sure we won’t get a similar release for any other newcomers unless they’re also villains and/or the team receives positive feedback though.

Also I’m mad that Sephiroth can’t counter the PSI kids’s FSmashes because his down b counts as a projectile and I learned the hard way.

 

[spicynun]

Would anyone else be happy with some of their not-likely most wanteds getting a costume? Klonoa has such a low chance that if a costume with his cap and ears came with a Namco character I'd be overjoyed.

Klonoa anything would be nice. Vyse from Skies of Arcadia mii sword fighter with a Sega character would be one that I would be super happy about because I know there is no way he is going to be a fighter.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh there's a new thread? Neat.

Means I can stan for Young Wizard again

 

[Deleted member]

Would anyone else be happy with some of their not-likely most wanteds getting a costume? Klonoa has such a low chance that if a costume with his cap and ears came with a Namco character I'd be overjoyed.

Jacket from Hotline Miami has no chance of being in Smash because there's no real way Sakurai could incorporate a trial and error top down game into the Smash setting, but **** I'd buy a Jacket Mii Costume in a heartbeat. A track from Hotline Miami would also be icing on the cake.