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Dixie Kong's Barrel Of Support Spirits. Farewell Everyone, Thank You ALL For Making This Thread An Excellent Place For DK Fans!

BirthNote

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My God... that Shorts? I happen now to remember him back in those days as that chippery, youthful horsetail frequenting that thread so often. What a fine time of endless possibilities and good times that was during my high school years...

I can't believe his passing somehow flew by my horizons, since I had kinda forgotten about him as Smash 4-speculation era thrusted me to completely different communities. Really hits me kind of hard now that I had come far since.


It's definitely way due belated... may he rest in peace.







:(
Yeah, that's him. It's been a while since but it's definitely not something I thought would happen.
 

ChronoBound

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I think Shorts was the guy who ran the Dixie Kong thread during the Brawl and Smash 4 days before BirthNote BirthNote and Venus of the Desert Bloom Venus of the Desert Bloom .
Shorts ran the Krystal thread. He also did a lot of polling work during pre-Smash 4. He was a supporter of Dixie Kong though. However, the character he championed the most was Krystal. As I said, he was the preeminent Krystal supporter during pre-Smash 4. SethTheMage was the one who started the Smash 4 Dixie thread.

I said this back in July:
Krystal likely did quite well on the ballot to be able to even get that consolation prize (Assist Trophy role). A lot of this is credit to Shorts who did an admirable job of holding the Krystal fanbase together after Brawl's release. Going into the ballot, she was in the best position she could hope for given her circumstances (Wolf being cut siphoned demand for her among Star Fox fan ballot voters that could have gone to her, and missing out on Star Fox Zero). The only higher consolation prize there is for Smash is the Mii costume, and for that there was no fighter type that Krystal could easily be made into a Mii costume for. As it stands, she is among the most dynamic Assist Trophies presently in Ultimate.

Going further on the tangent relating to Shorts, I do think it is possible that without the work of Shorts, Krystal might never have even been an Assist Trophy in Ultimate. A lot of character support in general is driven by organization (just look at BKupa's work in regards to the K. Rool and the Kremling Kutthroats), and I think he did well in that regard. His polling work also provided an interesting snap shot into the past in regards to character requests during the pre-Smash 4 period. I might someday write something on the last poll he put out back in October 2014 (he passed away in November 2014), since I think it in particular offers a very stark contrast to the dominant character requests in the present and would offer a fascinating history lesson to those who have an interest in character speculation backstory.


As I said, the first poll I used for my essay was the last poll he published. It really helped display the contrast in 2014 for character desires compared to what they are in 2020.

I might put something out in the Krystal thread about who he was because he was such an important figure in Krystal's support history. Krystal fans should keep him in their memory (as well as the speculation community in general).
 
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RetrogamerMax

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Shorts ran the Krystal thread. He also did a lot of polling work during pre-Smash 4. He did support Dixie Kong though. However, the character he championed the most was Krystal. As I said, he was the preeminent Krystal supporter during pre-Smash 4.

I said this back in July:
Krystal likely did quite well on the ballot to be able to even get that consolation prize (Assist Trophy role). A lot of this is credit to Shorts who did an admirable job of holding the Krystal fanbase together after Brawl's release. Going into the ballot, she was in the best position she could hope for given her circumstances (Wolf being cut siphoned demand for her among Star Fox fan ballot voters that could have gone to her, and missing out on Star Fox Zero). The only higher consolation prize there is for Smash is the Mii costume, and for that there was no fighter type that Krystal could easily be made into a Mii costume for. As it stands, she is among the most dynamic Assist Trophies presently in Ultimate.

Going further on the tangent relating to Shorts, I do think it is possible that without the work of Shorts, Krystal might never have even been an Assist Trophy in Ultimate. A lot of character support in general is driven by organization (just look at BKupa's work in regards to the K. Rool and the Kremling Kutthroats), and I think he did well in that regard. His polling work also provided an interesting snap shot into the past in regards to character requests during the pre-Smash 4 period. I might someday write something on the last poll he put out back in October 2014 (he passed away in November 2014), since I think it in particular offers a very stark contrast to the dominant character requests in the present and would offer a fascinating history lesson to those who have an interest in character speculation backstory.


As I said, the first poll I used for my essay was the last poll he published. It really helped display the contrast in 2014 for character desires compared to what they are in 2020.

I might put something out in the Krystal thread about who he was because he was such an important figure in Krystal's support history. Krystal fans should keep him in their memory (as well as the speculation community in general).
Yeah. I think Brawl and Smash 4 speculation was more important than most people realize because of the Smash Ballot. I still think Krystal might have chance if they promote Assist Trophies. I could even see her being the first one promoted even though that most likely will be Waluigi or Isaac.
 

Phoenix Douchebag

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I have read your essay here too, and I can't help parroting with others on how just deeply comprehensive and professionally analyzed it just is. You really went all way and out with this one.

I wish I could voice out my own thoughts and opinions on the analysis itself, but I'm deeply afraid I might end up writing something deeply frothed in embitterment and even passive-aggressively "spiteful" wishes against whatever currently is the audience enjoying getting acknowledged by Smash-franchise these days, while I feel like I had been played like a damn fiddle for even thinking I had even come close anywhere same, and made also a pointed target of mercilessly toxic mockery for investing it on characters that were destined too deceased in their long-running dormancy or insignificance in moveset potential to be added in.


I might consider writing my full thoughts out though incase folk here really feel interest on hearing it - I still want to practice unbiased and non-judgmental view of others, over even thinking of spitting back the same ignorant, envy-filled spite on others out there, even if receiving that long before.
Don't worry about it, jut remember that you are not alone on that opinion. When it comes to the whole Third Party oversaturation, im just as vocal and upset about it as you probably are, and im not afraid of saying it, and i firmly believe it has negatively affected Smash in the long run. Im actually starting to have ever supported any Third Party in general, period, because it only reinforces the path Smash is taking (and Simon and Mega Man are my 2 favorite Smash characters)

Also, sometimes unpopular opinions are not unpopular as you think, it's just that most people that share your opinion likely have moved on because they felt like they are talking to a wall, like all those Paper Mario fans that realized that it's never coming back to its roots, so instead they made their own game: Bug Fables (which is amazing BTW) and left the franchise for good, myself included.
 
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Ridley_Prime

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I remember many giving Shorts a hard time over supporting Krystal because furrybait and sexualization, blaming her for the downfall of Star Fox, etc, often suggesting Slippy or someone as an alternative addition. Initially I wanted her in during pre-Brawl, but after awhile I like many became content enough with SF's number of characters after we had Wolf. Shorts stayed the course though in spite of all that, keeping her support together. Surprised some still didn't know about his passing until it was brought up again, but yeah, was very unfortunate. He is missed.

I think Star Fox as a series is pretty much done now regardless of Krystal (it didn't need her help with another flop when it came to Zero), and while her assist trophy in Ult was a decent consolation prize, didn't like that it was her Adventures design used for it. Not getting to have Rare's original vision for her before Adventures became a SF spinoff and the Rare buyout happened kinda hurt her character the most in the long run, while the DK series is hanging in there still at least.
 

BravadoMan_13

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I have read your essay here too, and I can't help parroting with others on how just deeply comprehensive and professionally analyzed it just is. You really went all way and out with this one.

I wish I could voice out my own thoughts and opinions on the analysis itself, but I'm deeply afraid I might end up writing something deeply frothed in embitterment and even passive-aggressively "spiteful" wishes against whatever currently is the audience enjoying getting acknowledged by Smash-franchise these days, while I feel like I had been played like a damn fiddle for even thinking I had even come close anywhere same, and made also a pointed target of mercilessly toxic mockery for investing it on characters that were destined too deceased in their long-running dormancy or insignificance in moveset potential to be added in.


I might consider writing my full thoughts out though incase folk here really feel interest on hearing it - I still want to practice unbiased and non-judgmental view of others, over even thinking of spitting back the same ignorant, envy-filled spite on others out there, even if receiving that long before.



My God... that Shorts? I happen now to remember him back in those days as that chippery, youthful horsetail frequenting that thread so often. What a fine time of endless possibilities and good times that was during my high school years...

I can't believe his passing somehow flew by my horizons, since I had kinda forgotten about him as Smash 4-speculation era thrusted me to completely different communities. Really hits me kind of hard now that I had come far since.


It's definitely way due belated... may he rest in peace.







:(
Don't worry about it, jut remember that you are not alone on that opinion. When it comes to the whole Third Party oversaturation, im just as vocal and upset about it as you probably are, and im not afraid of saying it, and i firmly believe it has negatively affected Smash in the long run. Im actually starting to have ever supported any Third Party in general, period, because it only reinforces the path Smash is taking (and Simon and Mega Man are my 2 favorite Smash characters)

Also, sometimes unpopular opinions are not unpopular as you think, it's just that most people that share your opinion likely have moved on because they felt like they are talking to a wall, like all those Paper Mario fans that realized that it's never coming back to its roots, so instead they made their own game: Bug Fables (which is amazing BTW) and left the franchise for good, myself included.
I have to say, ever since the inclusion of Steve, my interest in the speculation scene has kinda waned for me honestly, but then Sephiroth brought me back to the scene. I still check in here and the Waluigi thread to be updated on things going on here. I've been meaning to write up a lengthy post about the state of Smash after I read posts by ~ Valkyrie ~ ~ Valkyrie ~ , Phoenix Douchebag Phoenix Douchebag , and Jurae818 Jurae818 and others.

The essay by ChronoBound ChronoBound was a great read and it pretty much sums up how the whole Smash speculation scene has shifted in the past six or seven years. I pretty much agree with both of you on what you have said about this topic before and now. I understand why Nintendo's decision to select these certain third party characters. They want to capitalize on the DLC sales which will help their profits going forward and try to establish partnerships wth other developers. I do understand, but it concerns me that Smash series as a whole has gone in this direction. Prior to the Game Awards two week ago, I saw there were many people jumping the "Jonesy of Fortnite" bandwagon. How did it ever gone to this? I really dislike the fact that Nintendo characters as a whole are being shunned and shoved to the side in favor of third parties in general. Though I should note that Dr. Eggman is in my top 5 most wanted newcomers and I also like to see Crash join the party too, but I rather see the more popular remaining Nintendo characters get the dues first.

I get the third party characters bring in the profits for Nintendo, but think of the benefits of adding more of their own franchises to the roster. I just don't agree on Smash becoming some de facto "Video Game Hall of Fame". You got characters that are major icons in Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Simon, and now Sephiroth who do deserve their place in Smash. Then there are characters who were basically unknown in the general audience like Joker and Terry (though I don't mind them being in Smash one bit).

The only newcomer I genuinely do not like is Steve. He just doesn't fit in with most of the roster and just sticks out like a sore thumb. You have characters like DK, Diddy, K. Rool, Dedede who show the most expressions in the roster. Even Mr. Game & Watch, who is literal 2D shows different expressions with his moves and getting hit as does R.O.B. when he takes damage. Pretty much the entire roster has some form of expression. Yes Minecraft is the highest selling game of all-time, but that shouldn't automatically guarantee them getting a slot (though it's water under the bridge at this point.). If you like Minecraft Steve, fine, no is stopping you from liking him. I just don't see the appeal of Steve one bit and that's why I will never buy him ever.

Sure there aren't a lot of big name characters from Nintendo left compared to what we had prior to Ultimate. I believe Waluigi and Dixie can generate a lot of hype for Smash fans. Just think of how much DKC would benefit with Dixie's inclusion as it would introduce a new generation of fans to the series and solidify even further that Donkey Kong Country is among the top Nintendo franchises. There is also Black Shadow, Isaac, Bandana Dee, Elma, Rex & Pyra to name a few others and some have fallen more under the radar thanks to the surge of third party requests. I should touch on Geno here too. It's unfortunate that Geno fans had to wait over two years for his Mii costume to return though I didn't support him.

Some may call me crazy, but I think Waluigi has decent shot to break out of his AT capsule which would break another fan rule. Though I know he isn't guaranteed. Same thing with Dixie, we may think that she has a decent shot due to the talk of something big happening for DK next year, but I'm going to keep my expectations low. We'll just have to see what happens next year being we have three characters left in this pass. Like I said before, Dixie and Waluigi are the two key missing pieces of the roster. I would gladly pay 6.99 for each of them. Even if we're mocked by the toxic detractors of the fandom, I'm still supporting Nintendo's characters to keep the Nintendo All-Star spirit going.
 

Ultinarok

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Did Rare make Krystal? I know they played a role in developing Starfox: Adventures when it was still Dinosaur Planet, but after the buyout of Rare the game was rebuilt quite a bit, and I thought Krystal was developed by Nintendo after, hence why they own her character.
 

Phoenix Douchebag

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Did Rare make Krystal? I know they played a role in developing Starfox: Adventures when it was still Dinosaur Planet, but after the buyout of Rare the game was rebuilt quite a bit, and I thought Krystal was developed by Nintendo after, hence why they own her character.
Yeah they did. Krystal originates from an N64 called Dinosaur Planet where she was the main character alongside Saber. It was developed by Rare, but then Miyamoto had the "brilliant" idea of putting Fox in the game because Saber looks like Fox.

**** like this is why i don't worship Miyamoto (even if it saved Krystal in the Long Run, because if Dinosaur Planet released in that state it likely would have been owned by Rare)

She was always meant for the game, they just put her in the Star Fox Universe after it got retooled.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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Did Rare make Krystal? I know they played a role in developing Starfox: Adventures when it was still Dinosaur Planet, but after the buyout of Rare the game was rebuilt quite a bit, and I thought Krystal was developed by Nintendo after, hence why they own her character.
Yeah, Rare made Krystal.

Yeah they did. Krystal originates from an N64 called Dinosaur Planet where she was the main character alongside Saber. It was developed by Rare, but then Miyamoto had the "brilliant" idea of putting Fox in the game because Saber looks like Fox.

**** like this is why i don't worship Miyamoto (even if it saved Krystal in the Long Run, because if Dinosaur Planet released in that state it likely would have been owned by Rare)

She was always meant for the game, they just put her in the Star Fox Universe after it got retooled.
I feel like Krystal would have had better character development had Dinosaur Planet been finished instead of being retooled as Star Fox Adventures. Fox stole Krystal's protagonist role in that game after they made it into a Star Fox game.
 
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pupNapoleon

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I'm still pissed with myself.
How could I not remember that you could have the partner hop on, and then throw said partner?

Reallllly hating on the fact that we got Toon Link and Puff in Brawl, but not Diddy and Dixie. URRRGHH
 

Dinoman96

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I think Star Fox as a series is pretty much done now regardless of Krystal (it didn't need her help with another flop when it came to Zero), and while her assist trophy in Ult was a decent consolation prize, didn't like that it was her Adventures design used for it. Not getting to have Rare's original vision for her before Adventures became a SF spinoff and the Rare buyout happened kinda hurt her character the most in the long run, while the DK series is hanging in there still at least.
Star Fox won't die as long as Miyamoto is around. Man said it himself.

Even after Zero's failure, it's still gotten a lot very recently. Avatars in the Switch OS, a big crossover with Starlink, and it even has an entire segment dedicated to it in Nintendo's Amazon merch store. Insider Emily Rogers said that Nintendo has been experimenting with Star Fox related prototypes behind the scenes, and that's its a series that much like Pikmin, Miyamoto won't let go of, as indicated by the interview above.

Star Fox certainly isn't in a good state, but I'd be hard pressed to say that it's "pretty much done now" considering that it's still getting more attention from Nintendo than like, the actual dead Nintendo IPs. Like F-Zero and Kid Icarus.

In light of the Star Fox crew appearing in Starlink, it sure would of been nice to have Pit and Palutena make cameos in Immortals Fenyx Rising, complete with Antony Del Rio and Ali Hillis reprising their roles from Uprising. But alas, without Sakurai there's no one to campaign for Kid Icarus within Nintendo, whereas Pikmin and SF have Miyamoto backing them up.
 
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Ridley_Prime

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Miyamoto and story don’t mix. If there’s another Star Fox with him at the helm, I expect it’ll be more of the same, but if he steps back and lets another team input their creative juices, then we might have some kind of real continuation.

And I remember Starlink, only that it released quietly and apparently undersold. A cool crossover but didn’t convince me the series was out of the gutter.

F-Zero is another Miyamoto baby. What it and SF have in common is that they only get new games now when Miyamoto thinks up of a new gimmick, but with a racing series it’s harder to do than with a railshooter, so y’know. Honestly though, F-Zero should be given a chance again before SF, after the number of chances SF has had but still failed, but I know he’ll go with SF again if he had to choose.
 

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Miyamoto and story don’t mix. If there’s another Star Fox with him at the helm, I expect it’ll be more of the same, but if he steps back and lets another team input their creative juices, then we might have some kind of real continuation.

And I remember Starlink, only that it released quietly and apparently undersold. A cool crossover but didn’t convince me the series was out of the gutter.

F-Zero is another Miyamoto baby. What it and SF have in common is that they only get new games now when Miyamoto thinks up of a new gimmick, but with a racing series it’s harder to do than with a railshooter, so y’know. Honestly though, F-Zero should be given a chance again before SF, after the number of chances SF has had but still failed, but I know he’ll go with SF again if he had to choose.
Honestly, I would love for Nintendo to turn Star Fox into Star Wars. Basically have a mix of Arwing, tank, and on foot missions instead of one or the other. Add all the gameplay aspects from all the previous games and make the best of both worlds. That's how I think they can make Star Fox bigger and grab the attention of a whole new audience.
 

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At this point, I hate to say it, but Miyamoto will have to retire sooner or later. It's tough to have him and Koizumi in the same company, when the latter is a little more inventive with his takes on the :ultmario: formula.
I think as long as Miyamoto's alive, he'll never retire. Unless Nintendo really wants him too which I don't think they do.
 

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Happy Holidays!



 

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It's not a popular opinion, but Star Fox Adventures is my favorite Star Fox game followed by 64. Having said that, Assault pretty much laid the groundwork of how I think Star Fox should go forward.
Adventures is my favorite Star Fox game too and yes, I agree that Assault laid the groundwork for how all future Star Fox games should be.
 

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Hey everyone, I'm really invested in this Star Fox discussion, but since this is the Dixie thread you have to work her into the posts. Normally I'd just say "let's get back to DK" but I'm lenient at this moment in time. So, this conversation can continue as long as you say "Dixie for Smash" at some point in the posts. Should be funny to see the result of this message lol.

Other than that, I hope everyone has the best holiday they can, given this year's circumstances. Oh, and Dixie for Smash!
 

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Well was thinking about posting this earlier before the Star Fox topic had me distracted, but figured enough people here already knew about this. Was news to me though... How many Rare characters Eviline voiced apart from Dixie.

https://twitter.com/pajaronaa/status/1341925633711087617?s=21

With all that in mind, a Tiny alt would be cool if Dixie ever got in Smash.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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Well was thinking about posting this earlier before the Star Fox topic had me distracted, but figured enough people here already knew about this. Was news to me though... How many Rare characters Eviline voiced apart from Dixie.

https://twitter.com/pajaronaa/status/1341925633711087617?s=21

With all that in mind, a Tiny alt would be cool if Dixie ever got in Smash.
So Dixie composed most of the music in DKC3? I knew she was a true musician.
 

Mariomaniac45213

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Assault is tied with 64 for my favorite Star Fox game. While a lot of people thought Assault was mediocre I didn't. It told a unique story, continued the story, incorporated all the characters, evolved 64's gameplay, had an orchestral soundtrack, and had an amazing multiplayer mode. The on-foot missions were a little wonky but other than that I think Assault was the perfect jumping off point for the series. Too bad Nintendo regressed and decided to remake the original Star Fox again for the 800th time with Zero instead of continuing down the path namco made for them.

All of that being said why do I have the feeling we will get a new Star Fox game on Switch before we get a new DK game. Despite the latter being a more successful and critically acclaimed series I could see Nintendo repurposing the Zero Wii U engine on Switch for a new game by Miyamotos demand before we even see a new DK game.
 

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I liked both Adventures and Assault a lot. I wish the latter had more of the linear arwing segments but otherwise it's a great sequel. Never played Command and I played half of Zero, never got used to the controls, and lost interest.

On a more Dixie-adjacent subject, I just listened to the Kongversation episode earlier about Funky and Dixie getting in Mario Kart Tour. At one point they mentioned how Nintendo treats their mobile titles with the same reverence they've given their handheld consoles. Like how Pocket Camp for instance is listed on their site alongside all the other Animal Crossing titles with absolutely no sort of implication that it's any less legitimate of an entry for being a mobile game.

Which I think is good, mobile games are games too, and while a lot of them do fall into some predatory business practices (including some of Nintendo's own), I appreciate that they are treated as legitimate games. The downside of this is there's a reasonable chance that Mario Kart Tour is "Mario Kart 9" and we're not going to see another Mario Kart until a new Nintendo console comes out. And even then there's no guarantee that Dixie will be in it.

Sad if true.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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As far as Star Fox I have some doubts about Nintendo returning directly to the on foot gameplay elements from Assault, if only because they've recently demonstrated a tendency to not let its franchises compete in the same lane as far as genre. Given the widespread popularity of Splatoon, I can easily imagine them concluding that another franchise with prominent third person shooter elements is redundant. Realistically you could greatly differentiate the the two in all sorts of ways, but I don't get the sense they'd go that way. I think there's enough potential depth there for it to work as a space shooter alone (especially when the likes of Star Wars Squadrons is doing fairly well with fans.

It will be interesting to see if SF or DK gets a prominent original title on Switch first; those two and Metroid still feel like the biggest absent series with new content on the console, even 4 years into its life.
 
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Mamboo07

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As far as Star Fox I have some doubts about Nintendo returning directly to the on foot gameplay elements from Assault, if only because Nintendo has recently demonstrated a tendency to not let its franchises compete in the same lane as far as genre. Given the widespread popularity of Splatoon, I can easily imagine them concluding that another franchise with prominent third person shooter elements is redundant. Realistically you could greatly differentiate the the two in all sorts of ways, but I don't get the sense they'd go that way. I think there's enough potential depth there for it to work as a space shooter alone (especially when the likes of Star Wars Squadrons is doing fairly well with fans.

It will be interesting to see if SF or DK gets a prominent original title on Switch first; those two and Metroid still feel like the biggest absent series with new content on the console, even 4 years into its life.
Don't forget Wario Land, would be nice to have Waluigi as a playable character.
 
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