Disney Sing-A-Long Mafia - GAME OVER, IT'S A HAPPY ENDING FOR DISNEY!

[Radical Fiction]

It appears that I owe you all a read. I'll see what I can do about that this afternoon.

 

[Radical Fiction]

The figure stirs, his rest disturbed. The price for this shall be dear indeed.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Maybe you should label the quotes so people like me understand who said what. Regardless, there's absolutely nothing wrong, incorrect or exaggerated in these posts.

Everything there was you up to T-Block's :

I have been pushing other avenues in Sword's absence. If that doesn't tell you that I'm not just looking to ride the Sword wagon into N1, then I don't really have any more to say

and the one below that was T-Block as well.

First off, Rake, I don't quite see what you're getting at lol

Just vote Gheb then, it'll be easier for you to sheep me on this.

I also think I get what Rake is doing in his last post and why he is now voting Gheb.

Explain for them.
I'll correct you if your wrong, but at this point I don't see how I was unclear but w/e.

 

[T-block]

My vote's been on him for forever, dude.

I might see what you're getting at, but if I'm right, you included a lot of quotes that don't seem relevant, so I'm probably misunderstanding.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Sworddancer. (2) - Inferno3044, Shadow Moth
Inferno3044 (1) - Macman
T-Block (1) - Gheb_01
Gheb_01 (4) - T-Block, Krystedz, Radical Fiction, Anomandaris_Rake
John2k4 (1) - Яagnarock

Not Voting (4): John2k4, Clover, Sworddancer., J

deadline is july 18th 11:59 pm est

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

My vote's been on him for forever, dude.

I might see what you're getting at, but if I'm right, you included a lot of quotes that don't seem relevant, so I'm probably misunderstanding.

alright on Gheb vote, i forgot you were there.

Also if you have time , just shoot out a TL;DR of what you think I was getting at.

I will explain myself but it's necessary to see if any player's are on the same page as I am before I go out of my way to explain it.

 

[T-block]

Gheb is shouting about Sword being a BS wagon, but you think the wagon he's trying to start on SMoth would be a BS wagon?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yeah, that's the feeling I had from his post too.

Except that'd mean that Rake is 100% wrong so I'm unsure.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Oh my god.

J, please tell me you didn't think this thought too ?

And no, both of you are wrong. T-Block is a little right but in term's of number's
Gheb= 0.00 % rightness
T = 0.1 % rightness

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

TB if you're going v/la again, could you please answer the question in my previous post? I actaully really do want to hear your answer.

Soup you haven't answered my question either, please get to it.

RF I await that read of yours.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Then tell us what it is all about. Don't do the same crap that Zen / Ryu / [insert bad player here] does in every game where they just pretend to know stuff or magically figured out something amazing and then screw whole games with it because it's not actually anything worthwhile and just derails everything we've been doing so far.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Actually I want to guess, this is a kinda fun.

Does it have to do with Gheb's inconsistent stances on people like J? Like, how he attacks people who sheeped my wagon, but also attacks J who was against it, or how he in general attacks J while asking him to wagon with him?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

That still wouldn't make sense though, Sword =/

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

It makes perfect sense if you actually read my quotes.

Also yes Swords, that is a part of it, one of the larger parts too, I`m currently trying to sum it up

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It makes perfect sense if you actually read my quotes.

Uhm no, if inconsistency has something to do with it then at least that part includes no hints on any scummy actions from my side.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Ghebie cakes if you have time can you answer one of the original accusations against you? Why did you single TB out of everyone on my wagon?

 

[T-block]

I will address you and J at least before I'm out, Sword.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm going to dig into the bigger posts now anyway, Sword [unless Rake comes up with his 'revelation' in between]. Remind me to answer it again if my responses still don't include all the answers you want.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

First, Sword's wall:

The one thing about him that I REALLY don't like is his initial vote on TB. As TB has pointed out, Gheb's reasoning was totally incorrect. I can buy that Gheb thinks that one of the people on my bandwagon (for it was a very easy bandwagon to join indeed) is scum, but his justification for isolating TB is off. TB wasn't being "discrete," or anything like that. In matter of fact, looking at my band wagon, TB has been the most active pusher of my slot, more so than Inferno. Gheb said that

[...]

Which again, not seeing. That's a pretty big reach to be making IMO.

I still don't see how it's a reach but at this rate it seems kinda pointless even trying to convince you since nobody agrees with Gheb
I mean I *could* dig out the initial posts of T and whatnot and comment on it in greater detail but since nobody seems to see what I'm seeing I'd prefer to drop the subject [even though people will likely **** on my face either way - if I keep on accusing T they will find something to make me look like the bad guy for and if I move along I'm suddenly 'withholding information' and 'ignoring cases']. I feel like at this point the whole thing with pushing T has stales out so much that I can't possibly get anything done, which is discouraging but I guess I have to accept it.

Unvote

Really, even if everybody kept asking for a 'case' on T-Block I'm not sure if I can be convinced, considering that 70% of my motivation to get T lynched has been taken a poop on from all side and that I really don't see how one case will change that. I mean, I'd like to think that I'm always the player who looks for a constructive solution and - right now - no matter how much effort I might be able to put into a case on T-Block I'd start to question whether it's productive for the town myself now.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Gheb states that Swords can`t be scum because no one defends him
-J defends Swords
- Gheb dislikes J`s slot and J`s play toDay whch largely involved defending Swords
-Gheb states that T-Block and other`s like myself are sheeping the more powerful player`s, but has no issue with me sheeping him (who could be argued a power player) on t-Block

-I ask how T-Block differentiates from SMoth, who was the last to wagon on Swords IIRC
- Gheb states that he sees my point on SMoth and that he wouldn`t mind a Smoth wagon after I mentioned it
- T and Gheb get to discussing and Gheb invites T onto my SMoth wagon.
- T states he finds SMoth useless, a sentiment Gheb semi voiced before
- T says he wants J

Both have J suspicion and both have failed IIRC to state what draws this suspicion. But all in all, Gheb is being extremely inconsistent with player`s this game and although I believe his T vote to have legitimate backing , I also believe that there was indeed some reaching involved on the part of Gheb, mainly because his logic could have been directed at anyone on the Swords wagon , the fact that he found T to be the worst offender , yet has no issue offering a self proclaimed sheep like myself onto his T wagon , when he previously said the people on the Swords wagon were just terrible sheep.

So all in all I am seeing Gheb as being very inconsistent with what he is saying and what he is acting on and doing , J is the biggest one because of the fact that J spent most of the day defending Swords , but yet Gheb dislikes J but has no issue wanting an apparent disliked slot onto his T wagon.

At first i thought it was Gheb putting the people he trusted least under him (being me and J) by virtue of having us aboard his new T wagon, but now I believe that while the vote on T was legitimate and possibly some of the logic, it looks more to me like Gheb manufactured his T read in order to see who would sheep him on it.

So I bypassed this belief and offered my own `BS`wagon of SMoth, who`s vote on Swords came with some reasons that anyone could apply the same logic as Gheb`s reasons on T`s to.

So in a sense I was trying to see If Gheb would jump on a chance to have two player`s under one curtain of logic and trying to test if he would go to one of the `sheep `and try to get them to the SMoth wagon.

Which he did, he went to T and asked about the possibility of a SMoth wagon, again doing a similar action as he did with J, say he felt a dislike to the slot and yet have no issue with that slot being on a wagon of Gheb`s creating.

The inconsistency of how Gheb is interacting is what moved my vote to him.

 

[John2k4]

Can't link from phone, but I'll find the games I've played with him..(@Freeblock)

I get the nagging feeling Rake asked me something, but I can't find it at the moment.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So Rake, how does inconsitency have *anything* to do with somebody being scummy? Like, at all? I'll go deepter into the post once I've wored through J's stuff but you seriously need to elaborate on it because if my points on T are reaching, then your case is a super-reach.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

J's post:

Gheb, w.r.t. the bolded, this is the biggest problem with you. What you are saying is 100% not true and contrary to what is actually being posted/done by other people in the game. If you are saying that no one truly questioned the Swords wagon or no one had him as town, what could you possibly make of me? I have been one of the strongest advocators for being against the Swords lynch and also been questioning it's intent by looking at the people who just get on the wagon.

You even say that you don't like me, but I see nowhere where you actually explain this, even though I am doing something which you consider would have been "good" in the sense that it wasn't being sheepy and actually someone looking at the wagon/calling Swords town.

Like I said, my reads on you have changed a couple of times in this game already. I can't hold your 'resistance' to the Sword wagon really in your favor because I hold that to be something *every* townie should have done. For a while you started playing a bit Ranmaru-esque with some early-game questions that feel like the "ask question but stay out of the spotlight stuff" that I would have expected more from everybody else than you. Only your recent play is the J that I feel I can bounce some ideas off and actually gain some insight out of - ironically, that only started after this:

I'm just going to say, please stop trying to preach to me on how to read you. Every single time I have ever pressured you or even considered you scum, you give me this spiel and try to "teach me a lesson" from it. Also I don't get why you have to "start AtE BS" in order for me to read you, if you probably didn't act scummy/questionable in the first place, I wouldn't need to do this with you every time. However, you also forget to mention, I'm usually one of the only people who will stick his neck out for you if your lynch is near and actually try and save you.

If it's truly null Gheb, explain to me why others are pushing you on it every single game.

@last paragraph: And why they are wrong every single game also? You're asking me about the shortcomings of others, I can't really help you there.

And whether you like it or not: Once again - right now to be exact - I already get to feel the advantages of opening you via AtE. Suddenly you start to *communicate* with me and try to *understand what I'm saying*
If this is what I get from preaching stuff to you then I will continue to do so because not only does it help me but it also helps you [even if you don't directly see it], no matter how much you dislike it. It's not like I'm doing it for fun myself either.

Also you are the one who would berate me for using AtE, yet you admit to using it yourself so it's just "...." for me at this point, Gheb.

I have yet to find another way to reach you and this very instance confirms it to me. Prove me wrong and we'll talk about this differently next time.

Alot of this has been answered. But the time I posted that I post I didn't like TB because I read his first post as just a cookie cutter way to hop onto the Swords wagon, but then I read Gheb's posts more in-depth and read them as a reach on TB that shows he hasn't really been reading the game fully and combined with the fact his facts are just completely wrong, makes me dislike him more.

So I'm not the only one who read T's jump on the wagon as 'cookie cutter' excuse? Why exactly does the fact that I see things the same way - except that you don't like my reasoning - actually affect your read? Stuff like that is why I can't make up my mind about you. On the one hand you have a read that is nearly the same as mine, except that we view it from a different angle. But then you think you must be wrong because *my* reasoning doesn't convince you?!?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

EBWOP @first paragraph:

One exception doesn't break the rule for me. While you may have claimed that you can't see Scumdancer a couple of times earlier in the game the bigger picture was still that there was little to no disagreement that Sword is scum [+/- one or one and a half player]. And I mean, the only time you actively stepped in to *act* against the wagon was when you were suspicious of T ... which you let off of because my reasoning, if I got that right. That doesn't really give me the impression anybody was trying to work off momentum of his wagon.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Rake, I really can't see where you're getting at.

I think T's suspect but I'm not getting anywhere with pushing him at this point so I drop it for now. That does *not* mean that I can't share a read with T and it's no sign of inconsistency for this to happen.

Everything else in your post doesn't really show how I'm being inconsistent ... my read on T has remained largely the same, my read on J has been shaky [I've admitted that like 3 times or so], my read on Moth has remained consistent and my town reads [Rake, Soup, Sword] have all remained the same. There's nothing inconsistent about it.

Above all that though, remains the fact that inconsistency is a complete null-tell. Like, why would being inconsistent be something a scumbag is more prone against than a townie?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I am saying that your case on T was at it`s base something easily applicable to everyone on that wagon , and while your vote and some reasoning could be argued successfully towards a lynch, it could have been argued with anyone else on his wagon.

Plus I don`t understand why you are being inconsistent wrt J.

You say every townie should have supported J and not been on Swords but you disliked J`s play through the day which was mainly defending Swords, by your own logic that would mean J would be super townie to you .

And why invite J on your T wagon at all at the time if you didn`t trust the slot, has J been swinging you back and forth that much ?

I feel like you and J are stating the same thing in reverse and would like J`s clarification on Gheb`s assertion that him and J are on the same page but reading different lines wrt T-Block

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I can see though Gheb what your are saying wrt J`s t points, now my question would be , did you state anywhere that T`s defence was cookie cutter or something alog those lines ? Because then it would seem like from the post you quoted that J has a larger suspicion than just a cookie cutter defence from T and is trying to go somewhere with it , but is finding Gheb to be reaching to much for his liking.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ghebie cakes if you have time can you answer one of the original accusations against you? Why did you single TB out of everyone on my wagon?

I accepted the Sword wagon because I always think early wagons get games starting nicely. I could accept the votes of Inferno et all because they did what they were supposed to do: put the pressure on and make things happen. This may not have been their intention but I can't tell whether that's true or not.

T's vote really stood out to me because he tried to justify his vote on a wagon that I felt served no purpose to begin with and like I said earlier, I thought [and still think] his 'reasons' to vote you are actually excuses to blend in the wagon and considering there was plenty of pressure on you I felt his vote was the most superfluous kind of action. I find it hard to believe that T-Block actually has you as scum and he's the only voter on the wagon where I can't see the pro-town implication behind.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I can see though Gheb what your are saying wrt J`s t points, now my question would be , did you state anywhere that T`s defence was cookie cutter or something alog those lines ? Because then it would seem like from the post you quoted that J has a larger suspicion than just a cookie cutter defence from T and is trying to go somewhere with it , but is finding Gheb to be reaching to much for his liking.

I never used the word 'cookie cutter' [I said it was an 'excuse' of him to join the wagon] but the point is virtually exactly the same.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

My posts covered most of the rest from you but:

IYou say every townie should have supported J and not been on Swords but you disliked J`s play through the day which was mainly defending Swords, by your own logic that would mean J would be super townie to you .

This is absolutely not true at all. You've concluded wrong.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

So what does it mean then ?

Did you dislike the way J defended Swords ?

Or did you think that J was doing it just to do it ?

Or did you believe J`s statement that RF was pushing just to push wrt Swords ?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Clover: Any thoughts.

Also , what do you make of Gheb Vs. T-Block

In closing : Where do you see yourself putting a vote if you plan to do so ?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So what does it mean then ?

It means that J acted like I expected a smart person to act - regardless of alignment.

Did you dislike the way J defended Swords ?

Nope.

Or did you think that J was doing it just to do it ?

I really doubt that and if he did I'd wonder what reasons he could possibly have for doing so.

Or did you believe J`s statement that RF was pushing just to push wrt Swords ?

I didn't see said statement but I could easily see this as true.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Gheb, what do you thin the policy on inactives should be in this game ?

Also : AT Soup: Who is pinging the most on your scumDar right now if anyone ?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Lynching inactives is something I'm never against - as long as the subject doesn't dominate our discussion. We'll still continue to hunt scum and make info available for as long as we can. If deadline is looming that's when we can agree for an inactive lynch. Right now, we're not getting anything from a wagon on an incative player.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Gheb, what do you thin the policy on inactives should be in this game ?

Also : AT Soup: Who is pinging the most on your scumDar right now if anyone ?

John. He made another useless post and refuses to do anything.

 

[Inferno3044]

Ugh. Why are you difficult to read Gheb? I honestly don't know how to read you. I kinda understand the TB vote because I've seen people do it before by thinking someone of the wagon was opportunistic and putting pressure. However nothing makes me think he's either alignment.

 

[T-block]

@TB: Why was Gheb defending actually scummy? Wrong? Sure. But why scummy? Also, why was J's jump on Gheb "weird," as you put it? You're actively pushing Gheb, so why is J joining you bad for him? Do you not agree with his reasoning that Gheb was isolating your slot for a bogus reason?

It's not the fact that he defended you per se, but the argument he used to do so; ie - that the main reason why he has you as town is that nobody was truly trying to derail your wagon. First of all, while I can see the logic behind that line of thinking, I would definitely classify that as a weak "tell", and I would certainly not be able to take it as a basis for forming a read as strong as Gheb's read on you seems to be. But more importantly, the premises behind the argument aren't even there. How can you say that a player is town because a wagon formed against him without resistance when a) not every player was around to even have the opportunity to resist and b) there actually was resistance?

What it boils down to is that I feel this points to his town read on you being ingenuine. I do not believe that a town mindset coming from a player as competent as Gheb would ever read this thread and come to the same conclusions that he did. I think the reasoning for this read is pure fabrication, and only scum would do that.

How is my flip onto Gheb, "totally weird"? It does imply that there was something that I didn't like about you and it was how you entered the game. It just seemed pretty complacent and just very go with the flow in terms of how you just hopped onto the Swords wagon. Nothing really stood out in your post and it seemed like a good place to have a vote on. If I recall correctly as well, his vote also got you to vote him in a somewhat OMGUS manner of you "calling him out". At first, I didn't really read too in-depth into either of your posts besides me not really liking Gheb's prose so far and also disliked your ditching of Swords and going onto Gheb but saying "still okay with voting Swords."

I also wouldn't say you are "wrong", but morely say that you are misguided. I only really dig-deep and pursue things that I find would be beneficial to drawing connections and finding out who is scum. With the response I got, I didn't find much to pursue in that.

Your behaviour with respect to Gheb was weird partly because of your aggressive agreeing with Soup. Soup wasn't making much sense to me, but maybe you're just better at reading what he means to say. More importantly, you agree with disliking both of us but me moreso in 334, and you explicitly state that you like that he placed his vote on me. Then you flip and say his reasoning was a reach, so you originally didn't read his reasoning? Or you just liked that he voted me, and you had your own reasons for disliking me, but you never voiced those reasons? If you're going to bring up the fact that Gheb's meaning was hidden, wouldn't you of all people be comfortable in discerning the meaning behind Gheb's poetry? You who loves the theatre and has a favourite Shakespearean play?

As for my vote on Gheb, it was in no way OMGUS. If you go back and read it (309), you'll see that I was voting him for the way he defended Sword - reasoning I've maintained to this day. It has nothing to do with vote on me. What do you dislike about my voting Gheb while still maintaining pressure on Sword? Was there something scummy about it?

In the last paragraph, what response of mine are you referring to? 294? If so, do you realize in that post I actually asked you questions you never responded to (and I now realize forgot to follow up on, but I got distracted by Gheb - this Inferno stuff is old now anyways)? How was there nothing to pursue?

I will admit, J, that my read on you is partly due to gut. Posts like 310 do not sit well with me at all, and they give me vibes of someone trying to manipulate rather than to determine the truth. I am also still thrown off by the fact that you voiced your dislike for me by saying you liked Gheb's vote rather than bringing up what brought about the dislike in the first place, and you only do so when specifically called out on it. When I get back from V/LA I will do my best to flesh out this read.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

1. J (semi-inactive)
2. Inferno
3. Macman (inactive)
4. Radical Fiction (Ryker/Swiss hydra)
5. Gheb_01
6. Shadow Moth (inactive)
7. Krystedez (semi-inactive)
8. John2k4 (inactive)
9. Anomandaris_Rake (too active)
10. Soup
11. Clover (inactive)
12. Sworddancer
13. T-Block

*looks at player-list*

Who was the guy who suggested lynching inactives?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Lynching inactives is something I'm never against - as long as the subject doesn't dominate our discussion. We'll still continue to hunt scum and make info available for as long as we can. If deadline is looming that's when we can agree for an inactive lynch. Right now, we're not getting anything from a wagon on an incative player.

Oh yeah. Which inactive do you want if we went that route?