ORANGEtheGORILLa
Smash Apprentice
Zzs players have been using only one combo lately...
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Difficult Matchups? - Ask Matchup Questions Here
- Thread starter NocturnalQuill
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Ranias
Smash Journeyman
Jump to avoid her grab.
Fatmanonice
Banned via Warnings
It's all about spacing and you need to play on the defensive. Ness absolutely destroys Little Mac in the air and, thanks to PK thunder, Little Mac is easy to manipulate off stage. Space PK fires and use shield grabs. If you get stuck close to him, I'd recommend just running because his attacks will counter most of Ness's close up options. I recommend trying different mix ups with PK fire. PK fire to PK fire, PK fire to jab combo, PK fire to grab to dthrow, PK fire to fsmash, PK fire to dsmash, etc. He can bust through it with his counter move but this can be fairly predictable so, early in the match, just use it to see what they do in response.
If they're very skilled, I copy their playstyle, because if it works for them, it should work for you.
Against lil Mac:
-avoid landing near him. Platforms are your friend.
-throwing him is one of the best options a character has against him. He has trouble landing and can be juggled pretty easily.
-watch for macs roll habits, they tend to roll a lot to reset. Dash grab would require a hard read -like really hard- so if you have a hunch he will, pkf can catch him.
- if you use pkt tail in a certain way, lil Mac will go offstage in the opposite direction if he throws out a counter. And in that note , always watch out for counter on landing
-avoid landing near him. Platforms are your friend.
-throwing him is one of the best options a character has against him. He has trouble landing and can be juggled pretty easily.
-watch for macs roll habits, they tend to roll a lot to reset. Dash grab would require a hard read -like really hard- so if you have a hunch he will, pkf can catch him.
- if you use pkt tail in a certain way, lil Mac will go offstage in the opposite direction if he throws out a counter. And in that note , always watch out for counter on landing
KieRanaRan
Smash Apprentice
Little Mac is a bugger, yes, but the biggest advantage Ness has over him is the fact that he is 10000000 times better than Mac in the air. Get him in the air, leather him one, and then throw him off stage - Mac rarely manages to get back on.
ORANGEtheGORILLa
Smash Apprentice
Air>Mac. Ness>air>Mac. Keep him in the skies, avoid the stupid nair drops.
Pazx
hoo hah
Gimp with Fair if he's recovering with side-b, stage spike with Bair if he's going low with DJ - Uair
ORANGEtheGORILLa
Smash Apprentice
I'm mailing Diddy. He's so good I can't even talk about him
Treuce
Smash Cadet
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Anybody have trouble with a good D3? I can beat most but I fought a very skilled player last night on FG and he used Tink and D3. The Tink fights were probably 40-60 his favor but I could not get a win off of D3. His gordo game plus neutral game was just too good. I tried reflecting, shielding, dodging, etc... Nothing could make the difference in the matchup.
PKBeam
Smash Lord
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Tink is limited to Bow and Boomerang and you can reflect both easily. Probably -1 IMO.
PKT reflects gordoes.
DDD's range is really annoying and his weight makes Bthrow a lot weaker. I don't really know how to deal with him.
PKT reflects gordoes.
DDD's range is really annoying and his weight makes Bthrow a lot weaker. I don't really know how to deal with him.
The trick for D3 is short hop Nair that will reflect all gordos and since you can easily do it out of a dash it doesn't slow or affect your ability to approach as well as since a gordo will be flying back his way he will either get hit or grabbed.
Once you get it down gordo s are no longer an option for him in neutral
Once you get it down gordo s are no longer an option for him in neutral
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ElectricBlade
Smash Apprentice
So I main Ness and I have a relatively difficult time dealing with Fox, I can never hit him with Pk Fire and doing the Dthrow>Fair>Fair on Fox seems way to difficult because hes a fast faller! Any advice? cx Thankyou!
EarthBoundEnigma
Smash Journeyman
You can fastfall fairs. When he starts to slip below your next fair, start tapping down during the fair animation. You can trap him despite going downward.
Against Fox you should be using PK Fire to punish, not to set up. When he whiffs a smash attack, dash attack, or special, you punish the laggy move with PK Fire and get your damage in.
You should be able to shield a ton of his attacks and get lots of grabs. He doesn't have many aerials that let him land behind your shield so he'll be taking a squat at your feet every time he aerials your shield. Grab him.
Also, this is a bit more advanced, but a single PKT can gimp his recovery. If he up B's directly into the head of PKT, it cancels out PKT, and doesn't damage him. However, it cuts his recovery distance dramatically.
Plenty of my Fox KOs are by forward throw and edge guarding because he has such predictable recovery options.
Getting him to side B is a free PK Fire or even charged bat. If he's really trying to get back, his side B is one of the easiest PK Flash targets in the game. Just aim for the edge. He'll be aiming there too. Release early.
Against Fox you should be using PK Fire to punish, not to set up. When he whiffs a smash attack, dash attack, or special, you punish the laggy move with PK Fire and get your damage in.
You should be able to shield a ton of his attacks and get lots of grabs. He doesn't have many aerials that let him land behind your shield so he'll be taking a squat at your feet every time he aerials your shield. Grab him.
Also, this is a bit more advanced, but a single PKT can gimp his recovery. If he up B's directly into the head of PKT, it cancels out PKT, and doesn't damage him. However, it cuts his recovery distance dramatically.
Plenty of my Fox KOs are by forward throw and edge guarding because he has such predictable recovery options.
Getting him to side B is a free PK Fire or even charged bat. If he's really trying to get back, his side B is one of the easiest PK Flash targets in the game. Just aim for the edge. He'll be aiming there too. Release early.
PKBeam
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if he's falling out of Fair start the combo at a later %.
Or, instead of using FH Fair -> DJ Fair you can do FH Fair -> (falling) Fair and even follow up with Dash Attack or PKF.
Also if he's not damaged enough to connect with a third Fair, you can FH Fair -> DJ Fair -> PKF and then Dair spike him if he's offstage.
Or, instead of using FH Fair -> DJ Fair you can do FH Fair -> (falling) Fair and even follow up with Dash Attack or PKF.
Also if he's not damaged enough to connect with a third Fair, you can FH Fair -> DJ Fair -> PKF and then Dair spike him if he's offstage.
Sir_Zedd
Smash Journeyman
Usually start the match against random Fox's by using magnet, the majority of the time it mind games them out of using the blaster for the match.
PKBeam
Smash Lord
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it's funny how you can hold out magnet at Fox at mid/long range and he can't stop you from doing it without getting grabbed.
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I'd like to add something to this. If Fox is near the edge and you grab him, just pummel him until he is released. This will cause him to fall straight down, leaving him with the only option of using his Up B. At that point, you can drop down and nair or bair him. I'd bair him as that will knock him against the wall or under the stage, depending on which stage you're on. But if you don't feel too confident, try to tailwhip him with PKT.
Sir_Zedd
Smash Journeyman
Good tip! I wouldn't have thought of doing that. Hopefully I'll remember this when the time comes.
You can do this with any character, but some have a bad time recovering. They may be able to do a second jump after the release, but I can't remember. I usually see them use their third jump instead.
PKBeam
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they can do a double jump as long as their feet were touching the ground before release or they haven't used it yet.
if they've used it and you grab them offstage (no feet touching ground) they are forced to Up-B or sometimes they can't do anything.
Dtilt will easily stop badly placed double jumps.
if they've used it and you grab them offstage (no feet touching ground) they are forced to Up-B or sometimes they can't do anything.
Dtilt will easily stop badly placed double jumps.
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Natemaster
Smash Rookie
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I gotta problem too you see, megaman has actually been a problem for me. I can never seem to get close. If attack from the ground he uses his specials if I attack from the air he sheilds and grab punishes since he never jumps and can't get close I cant rack up damage. The only thing I've tried is roll into his projectiles so I don't get hit but then I'll be predictable any tips? Thanks
Check my post here. Does this help? Never roll into Mega Man, because that's what he wants you to do. The Mega Man I fought against ran close enough to get in a few hits on me. He's not a far away character like Toon Link. Mega Man needs to get in somewhat mid-range against his opponents. Mega Man will try to bait you with Metal Blade and then probably jump away when he sees you jump towards him. You could try to fair through Mega Man when he blocks. He'll most likely follow up with a grab afterwards, and if you went through him, that would be your chance to do a bit of damage on him. Maybe an up or down smash. Typically, he'll stay grounded so he doesn't get destroyed in the air by Ness. And speaking of grabs, you may want to dodge a bit more against him. It really depends on the situation, though, so you need to predict when he's going in for a grab.
Mega Man needs to stay as close as he can to Ness as possible without trying to take harm himself. Again, he's a mid-range fighter. If you're at one end of the stage and he's at the other, it's not going to do him any good. You can literally keep his Metal Blade and absorb his Crash Bomber abilities. It might be best for you to play in the air and on the ground, because technically, the only projectile he can hit you with in the air is his Metal Blade, whether he's on the ground or in the air himself. He'll try to create an opening against you for him to move in and grab you. If you know this much, then you've got a slight advantage over him.
If you do a d-throw > fair, he'll most likely dodge away from your attack. You can either try to fair him anyway, or hit him with PKT, or possible fire PKF as he lands, creating this frame trap against him. If you find yourself off stage and able to recover with just your second jump, he'll try to use his Hard Knuckle to spike you, so you can dodge that and bair him afterwards. If you get him off the stage and he has to recover low, you can go for a PK Flash. You may possibly hit him as his only way back is up. But do keep in mind that Mega Man can delay his up B by wall jumping first, if that is an option for him. It's really only useful if he's close to the stage, though.
PKF can be useful against him, especially if he rolls. In fact, I do believe PKF out ranges Mega Man's pellets. If you're at high percent, Mega Man will desperately use smash attacks or try to back/up throw you. Those are deadly, so be prepared to DI. And again, never roll around him. If you're at high percent and you roll, he will probably up or down smash you. A distanced dash attack from Ness could poke Mega Man's shield, just be sure you don't get too close, because again, he likes to grab.
One trick this Mega Man went ahead and did against me was Metal Blade > grab > d-throw > fair, and continued again when I tried to land back on stage. I was being stupid, though. Don't fall for that mistake the second time. Your fair should be able to out prioritize his. Sorry if I already mentioned this. This Mega Man spammed his pellets, used a full hop fair, retreated, and did the same thing on me a few times before I finally stopped taking the abuse. Try not to fall for the same mistake. He's a tough opponent for Ness.
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ORANGEtheGORILLa
Smash Apprentice
we dont deal with them... we survive
jk. watch out for the gravity pkt gimp. dont abuse pkf and keep you spacing like dsmash and upsmash.
Noa.
Smash Master
Ddd is destroyed by ness. Any move that does 3% or more reflects a Gordo. Jab is most effective. You can spasm pk Fire against ddd cause he runs so slowly and cannot punish you for it too easily. He's also really easy to combo. Pick stages with lots of platforms so that you can pk Thunder his recovery in safety.
Check out the matchup thead a lot of good advice was given on the Rosalina part. It was the first discussion. We ehat it to death.
Natemaster
Smash Rookie
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Thanks for your advice uffe but there are still minor things that still bug me. First off it true that megaman is a mid range character....however ness is more of a mid close character whose strength is getting combos from grabs. The longest move ness has in his move set is pkt which is only useful against opponents in the air. The only way I would be able to get hits in if they attack me first. Smart megamans rarely aproach so that's also a problem. Also if I Roll back megaman can keep moving forward and land hits if I hold sheild up then he will just metal blade and standard attack my sheild. In short ness's special attacks have less range and usefulness than megamans except for pk fire in rare cases. The only way I'd be able to win is if I bait them to come close and do grab combos or fair them if they try to jump. Sorry if this post seems to be undermining your excellent advice but megaman is litterally the only character i struggle against.... Well and duck hunt XD. But if you have any more tips or advice please feel free to share thanks again 
Ness doesn't need to combo from grabs. If Mega Man jumps, which he will eventually, then fair should pick him up as you rise with it, or nair can push him back and you can chase him afterwards. A smart Mega Man can approach and bait you into getting hit. I believe I mentioned this. He'll poke at you with his pellets or Metal Blade, and if you try to jump over those, he can jump back and use his fair, potentially hitting you. And if this is a method he uses, then you can try to approach from under him after he does it to get the edge on him. A campy Mega Man can do fine, but one that gets involved in the match and has tricks up his sleeve will be far more effective in doing harm. I would advise you never roll during this match up, especially at higher percentage. Rolling into him will obviously resort to him smashing you or using an up tilt. But I know you're aware of this. Rolling away is obviously bad, as he can just dash attack into you.Thanks for your advice uffe but there are still minor things that still bug me. First off it true that megaman is a mid range character....however ness is more of a mid close character whose strength is getting combos from grabs. The longest move ness has in his move set is pkt which is only useful against opponents in the air. The only way I would be able to get hits in if they attack me first. Smart megamans rarely aproach so that's also a problem. Also if I Roll back megaman can keep moving forward and land hits if I hold sheild up then he will just metal blade and standard attack my sheild. In short ness's special attacks have less range and usefulness than megamans except for pk fire in rare cases. The only way I'd be able to win is if I bait them to come close and do grab combos or fair them if they try to jump. Sorry if this post seems to be undermining your excellent advice but megaman is litterally the only character i struggle against.... Well and duck hunt XD. But if you have any more tips or advice please feel free to share thanks again
This isn't a personal match up, I feel. I haven't been following match ups and tier lists this time around, as I'm just basing my match ups as personal good and bad match ups. However, you're not the only one who struggles against Mega Man. I really do feel that this is one of Ness' bad match ups. Same with Duck Hunt. I've had the honors of going against one of those mains. I wish I could send you my replays of the Mega Man I fought. Maybe he's not so bad and you and I just haven't figured out how to deal with him better. All I can say other than the advice I gave you was just keep fighting him until you get to the point you understand the character better and figure out your own ways of dealing with him.
Natemaster
Smash Rookie
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It's just that I cant get close to megaman and that's the best way of dealing damage since ness is a lower ranged fighter. Your right I don't like to roll but sometimes simply just turning and running doesnt stop him from applying pressure. Let me give you an idea of what this megaman does. 1st metal blade an easy sheild or spot dodge. 2nd crash bomber, I either sheild, reflect or absorb. 3rd leaf sheild after using leaf sheild he will go for a grab and if he gets it he will do a down throw to forward air combo. Megaman just has a good close and far game his fast aerials, good specials and keep away ability are in my opinion too much for ness to handle bieleve me I've tried and used to advice. It helps but not enough to win the match. I must be missing something but I don't know what it is thanks again for the help uffe
Is this Mega Man your friend? You're probably playing on the Wii U, which I don't have. If this is a friend, and whenever I get a Wii U, I'd like to try this Mega Man out. The best thing you can do is just constantly deal with that match up until you find something that clicks, like I already said. And running should only be used to figure out what your opponent is doing. It kind of sucks, because being near the edge puts you in a really bad spot, against any character, because it gives them more room.
LDSenpai
Self loathing ICs Player
Ness against Link? I have always had a problem facing a good Link.
Pazx
hoo hah
Absorb bombs and cancel into spot dodge/jump, if he charges an arrow just jump and shoot PKT (or approach, up to you), remember that he's still pretty heavy and slow and his recovery is bogus. Don't get hit by dair, juggle with PKT rather than Uair and shieldgrab him when he tries to land because his air speed is pretty meh, his landing options are bombs, dair, or fast fall, none of which are safe, and after landing his fastest move is jab which I think our grab should outspeed (not that you should be waiting for his landing lag to end to grab him).
Earthboundy
Smash Apprentice
I cannot stand vsing ROBS.
Mysteltainn
Smash Ace
Rosalina is annoying, but I'm waiting for the day that I have the opportunity to bat a charged Luma Shot back at her. That's on my "Batting Bucket List".
Bubztealuver101
Smash Rookie
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- The.ultimate101
Any suggestions on Ness vs Megaman match up? I have fought really good ones...and I just have trouble on how to approach with all those projectiles flying at me and other things like his bair lol.
PKBeam
Smash Lord
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you just have to learn to approach. get a feeling for his projectiles. don't try to absorb lemons.
his Fair/Bair are annoying but they'll be much easier to deal with as you get experience.
his Fair/Bair are annoying but they'll be much easier to deal with as you get experience.
Natemaster
Smash Rookie
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He's not a friend. I enjoy going on twitch and participate in tournaments he is usually there.....out of 25 people he is the only one that has ever two stocked me at first i called him spammer and a bad player but then I realised that what good megamans do. Abuse there amazing specials it works well. This guy plays a different game than me I play an up close game and he plays a long distance game. Strangely enough links nor took link even bother me anymore because honestly there just so easy to predict if you get close to them they'll roll behind you or use a tilt. Btw get a wii u it would be nice to play someone with ness experience. Even with all my flaws against megamans I think I'm pretty darn good with ness that's because.. Well hes my only character i use AT ALL. Thanks again
Soshii
Villageoise
Get dashing into shield down, it helps alot with approaching in matchups against characters that can zone with projectiles. Approach with aerials too and space your fairs and bairs safely. PSI Magnet if you're at a safe distance, maybe even bat the sticky bomb and metal blade if you're confident in that. It'll pressure them to approach if they see you have answers to their projectiles.
Noa.
Smash Master
Every time I go to a tournament, my opinion on certain matchups changes. Because of that, my thoughts on our matchup spread change pretty often. I will go through how I feel Ness does in certain matchups.
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-1:
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+1:
+2:
If I don't show a character it's because I haven't played enough against that character and/or I don't know enough about them.
Obviously in a week my opinion will probably change on a couple of these. My understanding of matchups is a constant and growing thing.
Sheik and Diddy are other characters that I can see as our bad matchups in this current day. I don't personally think that they are though.
In the future I do see the potential for Megaman, Pits, Shulk, and Ike being bad matchups as well. But this is just how I feel now.
-2:
-1:
0:
+1:
+2:
If I don't show a character it's because I haven't played enough against that character and/or I don't know enough about them.
Obviously in a week my opinion will probably change on a couple of these. My understanding of matchups is a constant and growing thing.
Sheik and Diddy are other characters that I can see as our bad matchups in this current day. I don't personally think that they are though.
In the future I do see the potential for Megaman, Pits, Shulk, and Ike being bad matchups as well. But this is just how I feel now.