Difficult Matchups? - Ask Matchup Questions Here

[Noa.]

I had no though about that x) **** this will help me a lot
I got trouble with zss, if she space with zair how do I approach her ? I feel like the only option is to wait for her to come :/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF2PrCBghFE

A mu I dislike is Sheik, any advice on dealing with Sheik when she needle camps? Granted I was getting frustrated, but I think it's an annoying MU if you don't know how to deal with the zoning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQTj8AzL1eY

 

[gilligan156]

I am having a really hard time with regular Samus. Every time I play one they do this keep-away nonsense where they run away and shoot homing missles at me and while I dodge those they charge the cannon. If I try to close in they either run away or somehow out-prioritize everything, even air moves, i can't come down from above, i can't approach from in front, I'm stumped. For what should be a +2 matchup (??) I cannot for the life of me beat samus.

 

[PKBeam]

Samus has to be careful about how she shoots missiles.
Reflected strong missiles can kill at 100%.
CS can heal a lot and if you reflect it, well, yeah, GG.

Approaching from directly above is not Ness' strong point, especially against someone with a ranged grab. When she's shooting missiles in bulk, get in the air.

When you're landing, some Samuses will try to CS it and others will save it.
It's reasonably safe to land just outside of grab range, especially if CS isn't going to kill you anytime soon.
Otherwise FF & Shield or Magnet against the trigger happy ones.

When you're close, try to put pressure on her by waiting. If she's holding shield then you might be able to bait a shieldgrab by weaving in and out of her range or by hitting her shield and putting yourself out of grab range (ex. FH rising Nair)

If she jumps, you can bait out an aerial, PKT juggle, challenge her or punish her landing. I think Fair beats hers. Samus is still pretty floaty.

 

[gilligan156]

Samus has to be careful about how she shoots missiles.
Reflected strong missiles can kill at 100%.
CS can heal a lot and if you reflect it, well, yeah, GG.

Approaching from directly above is not Ness' strong point, especially against someone with a ranged grab. When she's shooting missiles in bulk, get in the air.

When you're landing, some Samuses will try to CS it and others will save it.
It's reasonably safe to land just outside of grab range, especially if CS isn't going to kill you anytime soon.
Otherwise FF & Shield or Magnet against the trigger happy ones.

When you're close, try to put pressure on her by waiting. If she's holding shield then you might be able to bait a shieldgrab by weaving in and out of her range or by hitting her shield and putting yourself out of grab range (ex. FH rising Nair)

If she jumps, you can bait out an aerial, PKT juggle, challenge her or punish her landing. I think Fair beats hers. Samus is still pretty floaty.

That's all really good information for me. Thanks so much. I actually didn't know the missiles could be reflected, I assumed they would just explode.

 

[The_Most_Effectual]

So, I decided to take my question here rather than the Worst Matchup? Thread because they seem to have determined that Diddy is not Ness' worst MU, so I thought it might be off-topic there.

As I said there, I actually fare decently well against decent Ros's and Sheiks, but I got totally rekt by Diddys at my first Tournament last week. Good Diddys wall me online as well. I'm always too scared to commit to long-range PKT harassments because if I miss they get a banana-to-hoo-hah confirm. The little jumps that Diddy has on his Smash Attacks make them hard to punish with PKF (even though I know that a good Diddy won't be throwing out too many Smash Attacks). Over at Worst Matchup?, they've determined that Ness doesn't have a large disadvantage with Diddy, so it's probably just a skill gap issue mixed with a little bit of matchup unfamiliarity. Any basic Diddy fighting tips? (P.S.: I also play several other characters, so if any of them have any easier time against Diddy than Ness does I might switch to them to counter Diddy when I face one.)

 

[Earthbound360]

We did Diddy in the matchup thread, you might wanna look through our posts there.

But quick tips:
Don't use PKF in this matchup
Your fair beats his fair, just make sure you put yours out first
Likewise, your fair beats his monkey flip
Use his bananas against him. Learn to jump cancel throw them.
DI the dthrow AWAY from Diddy, and DJ+air dodge out of the stun ASAP
Don't get grabbed
Gimp the **** out of him. PKT works wonders in this matchup.

 

[The_Most_Effectual]

We did Diddy in the matchup thread, you might wanna look through our posts there.

But quick tips:
Don't use PKF in this matchup
Your fair beats his fair, just make sure you put yours out first
Likewise, your fair beats his monkey flip
Use his bananas against him. Learn to jump cancel throw them.
DI the dthrow AWAY from Diddy, and DJ+air dodge out of the stun ASAP
Don't get grabbed
Gimp the **** out of him. PKT works wonders in this matchup.

Thank you! Very informative, I will definitely use this!

 

[Gains]

Firstly, I apologize if I am posting this in the wrong subsection of this forum. I am a ness main, and I am struggling against an excellent R.O.B player at my local weeklies.

I find it very hard to punish rob. His recovery is excellent, so gimping isn't that simple, also he goes off stage very deep to kill me. I realize he has a big hurt box, but it seems like i can only beat him in 2 games never the third, and it\s always on the same stages (smashville and castlesiege).

The problem I find myself being caught in shield too much, (from lasers and gyros) which leads to me being grabbed and upaired. approaching with nairs doesn't exactly work all the well, i just find he's a character who outspaces ness quite well, please I am begging any ness mains, for their advice.

 

[Yink]

We do actually have a general matchup discussion thread (Click Me!). I'm sure our other Ness mains will lend their ear.

I'm going to merge your thread now with the one I just linked you to to keep the discussion going. That link is just for future reference for you!

 

[milesg2g]

I feel Ness loses to Megaman. I live in GA where we have a plethora of MM's around it seems. I can only beat the really good MM's with Falco tho. I completely understand MM as a character it's just he covers most options. I'm a pretty amazing PowerShielder and I have really good ground spacing with Ness. However, MM's moveset allows him to space as well and at a faster rate than Ness. He can completely cover every option Ness has.

If we must, I'd like to have a complex discussion on just approaching the character alone, so we can get a firm grip on this annoying MU.

 

[Noa.]

I feel Ness loses to Megaman. I live in GA where we have a plethora of MM's around it seems. I can only beat the really good MM's with Falco tho. I completely understand MM as a character it's just he covers most options. I'm a pretty amazing PowerShielder and I have really good ground spacing with Ness. However, MM's moveset allows him to space as well and at a faster rate than Ness. He can completely cover every option Ness has.

If we must, I'd like to have a complex discussion on just approaching the character alone, so we can get a firm grip on this annoying MU.

Megaman does beat Ness slightly. It's not easy for Ness to get in. However when you do get in your reward greatly outpaces his and you have to take advantage of that. Megaman does much better in neutral but his advantage is comparatively awful. I discussed this matchup in depth on the Megaman boards a month or two back.

 

[Earthbound360]

I genuinely think PK Jumping is a useful approach tool in the MM matchup, if you use it not too frequently to become predictable. I suggest hitting the lab and at least getting the timing down so you can try it out. It'll allow you to sail over his projectile wall and mount an offense.

 

[milesg2g]

We def. beat him in the air, but MM has so many tools to return to the ground with. Especially if he's played well and safe. Dash attack is amazing against MM as well it seems, but you have to space so much in front of him that you can't get a safe approach all the time.

I highly don't suggest PSI shielding any of his pellets. A smart MM will just bait it out and wreck you. PSI sheild would probably be ideal with customs tho, because Lucas' PSI shield is much safer and faster.

 

[Earthbound360]

I'm not even sure if we have him in the air totally. That fair is huge and fast. I'm pretty sure it beats almost all of our aerials.

 

[Deleted member]

One of the most difficult match ups is when youre Pit( who i main) and battling pikachu because its just too fast and it will just grab you, Electrocute you for ever and then chuck you up and shock you with thunder and repeat the process til youre definitly dead. Plus the electric shocks sometimes stun pit for some reason allowing pikachu to grab pit again and Shock him even more!!!!! SUPER ANNOYING MATCHUP

 

[PKBeam]

wrong character board.

 

[Luco]

Yo @ Noa. I just had a thought. Seeing as you've put a lot of time into customs I thought to ask you first, but if @ Earthbound360 or someone else who's been experimenting with this stuff has any thoughts to contribute then feel free to share.

What do you think about Lasting PK Thunder vs. ? I was writing something in the competitive impressions thread and realised how potent it could be in that MU. In fact, it feels like it could almost be a free gimp. PK Thunder has the risk of bopping Diddy up with the head but LPKT would just push him further away in a semi-spike kind of fashion.

I feel like if we get Diddy offstage with that we could theoretically end his stock like 50% of the time, or at least learn to play so the odds are heavily in our favour when he's offstage.

 

[Lysergic]

One of the most difficult match ups is when youre Pit( who i main) and battling pikachu because its just too fast and it will just grab you, Electrocute you for ever and then chuck you up and shock you with thunder and repeat the process til youre definitly dead. Plus the electric shocks sometimes stun pit for some reason allowing pikachu to grab pit again and Shock him even more!!!!! SUPER ANNOYING MATCHUP

Derp derp.

 

[Earthbound360]

I can see Lucas thunder being more effective against Diddy. He's too hard to juggle with normal PKT anyways.

 

[Lukingordex]

So apparently the MK boards rated the Ness MU as a 60:40 for MK, I would like to know if that's true.

Also I would be happy with some ZSS information since I have never faced this Match Up before.

 

[PKBeam]

No?
One guy said +1.
I think it's kinda evenish.

Anyway, a +2 from them would be VERY ironic since in that same thread someone was talking about character boards who "weren't even top tiers" putting +2's against their character because of lack of character knowledge.

 

[Earthbound360]

Ness losing to MK is a lol.

 

[SewenNewes]

I'm not even sure if we have him in the air totally. That fair is huge and fast. I'm pretty sure it beats almost all of our aerials.

I use MM as my secondary and I can confiirm that we lose in the air if Megaman is slightly higher than us and facing us. Fastfall fair is nasty. You have to avoid letting him get in position to do it if you want to win in the air. We win outside of that, though. He's helpless if we are directly beneath him, his dair is too slow. That said, whenever he's in a bad position in the air against Ness he can use up B as a get out of jail free card. We can't really punish him for it because he falls so much faster than us.

 

[Earthbound360]

In addition to that, you have to respect the range of his lemons in the air, and watch out for MM players who DJ+Metal Blade down. It's safe enough to be under MM in the air, but at least watch out for that blade.

 

[PMMikey]

I can't for the life of me beat a Spamus. I just can't her projectiles always get me. I can't even with my secondaries Lucina or Luigi. TIPS?

 

[Earthbound360]

Sheilding, dropping shield, and dashing in again wrecks Samus. Just be wary of her instant UpBs and don't attack her shield. Zair is a good spacing tool also, so be wary of that. Something I've been experiment with is a SH air dodge into uair in the same jump. That might get you through the zair if you read it.

 

[Brendannn]

Can anyone give some tips on fighting Pikachu? I played somebody using Pikachu on Anther's Ladder and I felt like I could beat them skill-wise but I ended up losing because he was just spacing me out with his neutral-b.

 

[Earthbound360]

Neutral B is what got you?

Magnet cancel those little buggers.

 

[PolarPanda]

Mega Man is definitely the trickiest matchup I've had, but ZSS is pretty annoying too, simply just for speed. Oddly, I haven't had as much problems with a Diddy in Sm4sh.

 

[AlphaAustin]

For some reason I always have trouble playing rob or duck hunt with ness. Maybe it is my playstyle but I dont know how to deal with their projectiles and zoning.