Difficult Matchups? - Ask Matchup Questions Here

[Ranias]

It is true that Falcon has a fast fall speed and high air speed. Those help him deal with the pk thunder. However there are four things that contribute positively to us juggling him. He has a large frame. He has poor aerial acceleration and deceleration to he can't mix up easily on his way down. He doesn't have a burst mobility option to quickly escape from the situation like Sheik and bouncing fish or ZSS and her down b. And Falcon's aerials have small hitboxes, apart from uair, so he has trouble hitting the head of pk thunder.

You make a good point, but I feel that skilled Falcons don't really hang out in the air long enough (outside of aerial chains) to take full advantage of PK Thunder juggle. You also risk getting punished rather harshly.

 

[Noa.]

You make a good point, but I feel that skilled Falcons don't really hang out in the air long enough (outside of aerial chains) to take full advantage of PK Thunder juggle. You also risk getting punished rather harshly.

There isn't much skilled falcons can do when you fthrow them offstage. HIs up b doesn't even have a hitbox to try to kill the pk thunder. And I've played with quite a few falcons. The best one I've played with would be Lethality.

 

[PKBeam]

Falcons like to pressure you by being at mid range and making you commit to something so they can grab it.
Solution?
Don't commit.
Space Fairs on Falcon's shield and if he tries to grab it, make him pay (dash attack, even if spaced, is punishable).
All of Falcon's approaches can be pivot grabbed.
Getting too confident with Uair juggles? Fastfall a Nair into his face.
Is he offstage? Free PKT.

I think Ness wins a slight +1.

 

[Noa.]

So I'm going to post how I feel about our matchups. I did this a couple weeks ago but there have been small changes. I'm only focusing on top/high tier characters in this list however.

-2:
-1:
0:
+1:
+2:

 

[Ranias]

So I'm going to post how I feel about our matchups. I did this a couple weeks ago but there have been small changes. I'm only focusing on top/high tier characters in this list however.

-2:
-1:
0:
+1:
+2:

I agree with this except for Pikachu's placement. I feel that we have an advantage vs. Pikachu due to his short reach and our ability to shut down his projectiles.

 

[Noa.]

I agree with this except for Pikachu's placement. I feel that we have an advantage vs. Pikachu due to his short reach and our ability to shut down his projectiles.

Out of all those characters, Pikachu is the character I have the least experience with. I have the weakest opinion on him. I can see it being in our advantage.

 

[PKBeam]

This is what I think of our matchup spread. But I lack experience in quite a few of these, so.....

Spoiler

 

[Ranias]

Here's my take on all of the matchups: http://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/share/?user=ranias&char=1128

 

[Noa.]

This is what I think of our matchup spread. But I lack experience in quite a few of these, so.....

Spoiler

I'm surprised that you think that we lose to Yoshi, Megaman, and Villager. I'm wondering what your reasoning is behind that.

And where is this graphic from?

Here's my take on all of the matchups: http://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/share/?user=ranias&char=1128

We seem to agree on our bad matchps but you have a surprising amount of matchups listed in our favor. I think we have anywhere in the realm of ten to fifteen even matchups in this game. But the rest of the cast is not as significant as the top/high tiers for now.

It seems that everyone is convinced that Diddy is a bad matchup. I can understand the impetus, but to me Sonic, Rosa, and Sheik seem much worse to me. And they don't feel that bad. Though it would be ridiculous to say that Ness only has three bad matchups. I'm sure he has more. I just haven't found them yet. In my mind, matchups are even until proven otherwise.

 

[Ranias]

We seem to agree on our bad matchps but you have a surprising amount of matchups listed in our favor. I think we have anywhere in the realm of ten to fifteen even matchups in this game. But the rest of the cast is not as significant as the top/high tiers for now.

There are a bunch of characters that I put in slight advantage that I could see as an even matchup too: Link, Toon Link, Mario, Dr. Mario, Pit, Dark Pit, Palutena, Zelda, Fox. I just personally haven't fought anyone that could beat me consistantly using those characters.

 

[SirBacon]

So far my Ness hasn't hit a single character that has been a night and day impossible win except for one. Pikachu destroys me every time especially this one player I have on my team he isn't even very good and I can beat the people that beat him but something about his pika just can't seem to be beaten by Ness. Is there someone I should play or a strategy to use? I main Ness and little Mac so I'm open to suggestions!

 

[Ranias]

So far my Ness hasn't hit a single character that has been a night and day impossible win except for one. Pikachu destroys me every time especially this one player I have on my team he isn't even very good and I can beat the people that beat him but something about his pika just can't seem to be beaten by Ness. Is there someone I should play or a strategy to use? I main Ness and little Mac so I'm open to suggestions!

Do you know how to PSI Magnet cancel? When you absorb with Ness's Down B, you can roll backward or jump out of it. I suggest you PSI Magnet cancel everything you can. Try to space well with Fairs and be careful not to fall into Pikachu's smash attacks.

 

[Earthbound360]

The hard part about Pikachu is those dang Quick Attacks. Pikachu can be hard to pin down with PK Fire or grabs if they're using it well. It takes a lot of prediction.

Oh, and DI the uthrow every time. I usually DI behind him.

 

[Ranias]

The hard part about Pikachu is those dang Quick Attacks. Pikachu can be hard to pin down with PK Fire or grabs if they're using it well. It takes a lot of prediction.

I feel that Quick Attack is more flashy than good. It only does 2% on the first hit and 3% on the 2nd hit. If used well, it can be pretty good for approaching and mind games, but it can be stopped by placing a projectile or lasting hitbox in its path.

 

[Earthbound360]

Ness has no good projectile that he can just throw out in the way of QA. PK Fire won't hit since he's gonna be hovering above the ground, and PKT is too risky in that instance. Fair is a lasting aerial hitbox, but with how you'll be hitting with it, it'll do pitiful damage. Not sure if nair works well, still have to test that.

 

[Pazx]

guys how do i beat marth/lucina

inb4 bad character

 

[PKBeam]

I'm surprised that you think that we lose to Yoshi, Megaman, and Villager. I'm wondering what your reasoning is behind that.
And where is this graphic from?

I screenshotted my character select screen and the smash ball with the home button and uploaded them to postimage, got them on my PC, did some photoshopping (adding numbers).

As for those -1s I think they're very-close-to-even -1's, I could be convinced to change them to 0.
Yoshi's ground game is good enough to give us some trouble, and it's not like he gets destroyed in the air, I think it's pretty even but just Yoshi wins slightly.

Mega Man... I think his camping game and Bair give him a bit of an advantage here.

Villager, well, I haven't played many Villagers but I think he kinda zones Ness pretty well (once we get in it's a different story). Looking back I think it's probably closer to even or +1 now.

 

[Noa.]

guys how do i beat marth/lucina

inb4 bad character

lol so I was thinking about m reply to you and then i clicked on your cover. And then found your tumblr. And that was interesting lol.

Anyways Marth's biggest weakness is the auto cancel windows on his aerials. He has to use all of his aerials in a very specific time frame to not have horrendous landing lag. Because of that, he does not have the luxury of being able to mixup the timing of his aerials during his short hops. You can use this to your advantage. It makes him more predictable.

I cannot offer anymore advice as my experience against good Marths is extremely limited.

 

[Noa.]

I screenshotted my character select screen and the smash ball with the home button and uploaded them to postimage, got them on my PC, did some photoshopping (adding numbers).

As for those -1s I think they're very-close-to-even -1's, I could be convinced to change them to 0.
Yoshi's ground game is good enough to give us some trouble, and it's not like he gets destroyed in the air, I think it's pretty even but just Yoshi wins slightly.

Mega Man... I think his camping game and Bair give him a bit of an advantage

Spoiler: off topic

but if you're surprised by -1, go take a look at the Mega Man Matchup Thread and take a look at
"at least 6/4" (which is -2)
and
"30:70" (which translates to -3)
and their wonderful explanations of how Usmash is too much of a commitment to use but it's somehow a good idea to punish PK Fire by SHing over it and hitting us with Utilt, how Bair destroys Ness, how SH beats all our ground options and how our recovery is "terrible", and I get the feeling they think we're dead as soon as we get knocked offstage.

Villager, well, I haven't played many Villagers but I think he kinda zones Ness pretty well (once we get in it's a different story). Looking back I think it's probably closer to even or +1 now.

Can I offer some advice on the matchup chart you created? It was very difficult to read. I suggest that you make the different matchup numbers coordinate to different colors. That way it's a lot easier to quickly identify all the different matchups you have labeled. A color scheme like this would go a long way to make your matchup chart easier to read:

-2
-1
0
+1
+2

As it stands now I have difficulty going through your matchup chart.

The thing about the Megaman and Yoshi matchup is that in both matchups we have a slight disadvanage in neutral. Because the majority of the game takes place in neutral, it's easy to feel that these matchups are bad for us. However the fact that we do so well in an advantaged state combined with how much easier it is for us to kill them compared to the other way around is why these matchups are even instead of bad for us. At least in my opinion.

 

[PKBeam]

yeah the contrast is bad, i saw that too when i made the chart. I just realised we don't have +/-3s (yet...) so I wouldn't have to make subtle colour changes, maybe a black outline would be easy to read.
I'll go through it again, if i feel like it sometime.

 

[Noa.]

Idk if Ness is a polarizing enough character to have those kinds of matchups. But we'll see later down the line. It'll be more defined if bottom tier charcters are discovered to just have shallow metagames. zelda

 

[PKBeam]

zelda

I had only zelda in mind when i said that.
Coming from Brawl, the matchup only seems easier for Ness.

 

[neomadgic]

So I'm going to post how I feel about our matchups. I did this a couple weeks ago but there have been small changes. I'm only focusing on top/high tier characters in this list however.

-2:
-1:
0:
+1:
+2:

What makes you feel like we have an advantage over ZSS? I hate that matchup so much! Like, her range is insane so she can out space us. It's really hard to gimp her since she can go high or low. She has great kill options with upB oos or dsmash combos.

 

[Fenrir VII]

@ PKBeam , I would invite you to actually debate the points I made about the Mega Man matchup, as opposed to responding sarcastically in our thread. Yes, I think the matchup is at least 6-4 because I don't think Ness has a reliable answer to correct zoning play from Mega Man. The point of matchup threads is to... discuss matchups from both sides and determine the correct ratio/strategy. I clearly stated my feelings about the matchup, and you responded "I really don't care what other people say about Ness anymore."

If you feel strongly about something, please say it.

Also, again about the numbers... it makes no sense for 6:4 to be a -2 and 7:3 to be a -3. Traditionally, 6:4 = -1, 7:3 = -2 and so on.

 

[neomadgic]

@ PKBeam , I would invite you to actually debate the points I made about the Mega Man matchup, as opposed to responding sarcastically in our thread. Yes, I think the matchup is at least 6-4 because I don't think Ness has a reliable answer to correct zoning play from Mega Man. The point of matchup threads is to... discuss matchups from both sides and determine the correct ratio/strategy. I clearly stated my feelings about the matchup, and you responded "I really don't care what other people say about Ness anymore."

If you feel strongly about something, please say it.

Also, again about the numbers... it makes no sense for 6:4 to be a -2 and 7:3 to be a -3. Traditionally, 6:4 = -1, 7:3 = -2 and so on.

I'm a big fan of %, rather than single digits. I feel like some matchups are 55/45, and we can't really express that with single digits.

I also completely agree with you that the mega man matchup is not in our favor. Maybe a 50/50?? I hate that matchup so much because megaman can zone us out pretty well. His pellets are extremely annoying, and it stops all our approaches. It is extremely hard to get "in" against megaman. He has that gear as well, so we can't always heal the pellets since he can throw that gear at us. I feel like it's not even worth healing the pellets because getting hit by that gear will deal more damage than the pellets heal. I get so annoyed fighting megamans that I sometime don't even approach. It is futile.


However, as annoying as the pellets are, they are super weak. They hardly do any damage, so don't lose composure if you get hit. I think this is one thing that megaman mains bank on. They interrupt flow and punish your frustrations. So when fighting a megaman, just keep your cool, and know that those pellets don't do much damage. The main thing to dodge is his gear and try to heal his sticky bomb. One thing that favors us though is that Megaman has to think twice to before using his fsmash, because that heals a lot, so we take away one of megaman's skill option.

The main advantage we have against megaman is our aerial game. Once we start getting in and juggling megaman, the advantage shifts to our favor. Try to keep our momentum up during this phase. This is where we have to try and do the most of our damage, because once megaman resets it to neutral, we're back to megaman's zoning game.

Because our aerial game is so strong against megaman, I feel like the matchup is even... But if I had to give this matchup a number, I'd say it's 45:55 megaman's favor. Since most of the match is usually in the neutral game and that is where megaman excels.

 

[PKBeam]

...have you seen the Brawl matchups?
most boards have 60:40 as +2 and 70:30 as +3.

if you meant +1 Mega Man then that's fine, go ahead and have it.
I was only being sarcastic because I thought that guy was actually contemplating a -3 matchup (and when I saw "7/3" I wasn't even going to try) and if you're going to claim a counter against a top tier and write a post like that, you better be really to get sarcasm bombed.

and I wasn't writing empty sarcasm, I did respond to his post and expressed my thoughts on why SH does not destroy Ness' close range game and why trying to SH over PKF and why crouch cancelling a landing Fair is utterly useless.

 

[Earthbound360]

I play a Mega Man player very regularly, and the more I play it, the more I think it's even. If anything though, it's probably disadvantaged at worst.

Ness CAN get though the wall of projectiles with patience. However, I do NOT recommend healing off of Crash Bomber. It only heals 1-2% and it's not very safe. Lemons are way too dangerous to heal off of.

The key to winning the matchup with Ness is the key to winning the matchup with anyone: moving and shielding. Approach him and get in close where Ness wants to be. Mega Man may be able to pelt you with a lot until you get there, but once you're in he'll be hurting by nature of Ness. You can go over the projectiles if you're tactful and spare with PK Fire too, but don't rely on this too much.

Other than that, Ness has a MUCH easier time KOing than MM. Just don't roll into usmashes. Do NOT let the projectiles bait you. When you get higher in damage, keep an eye out for bairs, and you should be good. The air game is about even between the two of them IMO.

I'd write it down as even or a super slight disadvantage. Anything beyond 1 is ridiculous.

 

[Noa.]

You should all post in the mega man matchup thread. I did. :V

 

[Fenrir VII]

...have you seen the Brawl matchups?
most boards have 60:40 as +2 and 70:30 as +3.

having the distance from +1 to +2 be half the step from +2 to +3 makes no sense, though.

60:40 = +1
65:35 = +1.5
70:30 = +2

just makes more logical sense and is easier for everybody to understand.
I also want to state that calling Ness a "top tier" this early into the meta, without much tournament evidence to back that up, and using that idea to scoff at the idea that another char could have a hardish counter against him is fairly illogical.

btw thanks @ Noa. for the response.

 

[Noa.]

having the distance from +1 to +2 be half the step from +2 to +3 makes no sense, though.

60:40 = +1
65:35 = +1.5
70:30 = +2

just makes more logical sense and is easier for everybody to understand.
I also want to state that calling Ness a "top tier" this early into the meta, without much tournament evidence to back that up, and using that idea to scoff at the idea that another char could have a hardish counter against him is fairly illogical.

btw thanks @ Noa. for the response.

I posted this on the Mega Man matchup thread but I'm reiterating it here so that you Ness players can see it haha.

Now labels is a pretty important discussion to have. I see right now that you guys like the ratio out of a 100 label. Personally, I really dislike using matchup ratios.

In brawl when we discussed matchups this is what I saw as the meaning for matchup ratios:

50:50 even obviously

55:45 mostly even, but one character has a definite edge. It's very small, but definitely there.

60:40 solid advantage, soft counter. Difficult matchup but still perfectly winnable You have to be better than your opponent to win, but not that much better really.

65:35 hard counter. Really difficult matchup. You have to be much better than your opponent to win this matchup in a tournament set. A secondary is not absolutely required, but is definitely recommended.

70:30 Unwinnable. Must use a secondary to beat this character in a tournament setting.


Now this is obviously how I interpreted these numbers. Lots of other people shared similar interpretations to these, but everyone is different. Reading the OP of this thread this is what I coudl find:

The overall score will be based on a score of 100. We will mostly use multiples of 5. The number on the left will represent Mega Man, the number on the right the current match-up opponent in discussion. For example, let's say that we have a favorable match-up against Mewtwo, we would say 70-30 if its solidly in Mega Man's advantage. 90-10 would be a close to unwinnable matchup. 80-20 is a strong "hard counter". 70-30 is a solid advantage. 60-40 would be for an advantage. 50-50 would be neutral. And then it switches sides. Green will indicate an advantage while red is disadvantage for Mega Man. The lighter the color, the more intense the advantage/disadvantage.
Click to expand...
You've defined what the meaning is for 50:50, 60:40, 70:30, 80:20, and 90:10 is. However, I would suggest that you elaborate further on what each number actually means. When you say that Mega Man has a solid advantage, what does that mean? When does a matchup stop being a solid advantage, and starts being a hard counter. Doing your best to clearly define the borders and boundaries between what each definition entails is important. It makes it easier to organize matchups if everyone knows exactly what a ratio means for a matchup. That's why when I described the ratios earlier, I evaluated the matchup in a variety of ways. How should you expect to perform in tournament against equally skilled player, and players who are worse than you? Do you need a secondary? How often should you be winning? By establishing clear cut definitions it's easier to have a dialogue. This is especially helpful when you invite people from other character boards.

When I first came in here and saw that you had listed this matchup as 70:30 I thought you were all being ridiculous. But then I saw what you actually meant by 70:30; solid advantage. I can see that. PK beam reacted so poorly because he misunderstood what you meant when you said that matchup was 70:30.

This is why I don't really like the matchup ratio system. It seems that everyone has a different meaning for each of the numbers and what they mean. They have such a loaded history from Brawl that they should probably be avoided. Plus how many levels of matchups are there really?

Even

Slight advantage

Solid advantage

Huge advantage

Unwinnable

I would say that all matchups can fall under one of those five categories comfortably. Trying to delineate it any further would be a waste of time in my opinion. If there are really only five different kinds of matchups, then why implement a system that has room for 100 different kinds of matchups?

What's the difference between a 65:35, 75:25, and 70:30? It seems rather arbitrary at that point. You have Diddy listed as 52.5:47.5? What does that even mean?

Even just simplifying it down to single digits creates superfluous ratios. 5:5, 6:4, 7:3, 8:2, and 9:1 all have a purpose. What's the difference between a 9:1 or 10:0 matchup though?

Meh this is why I prefer just plain old numbers. 0, +1, +2, +3, and +4. By clearly defining what each number means, you can arrive to a conclusion easily. And you don't have any superfluous or meaningless labels like with other systems.

 

[Fenrir VII]

in legacy terms, the ratio was literally the number of matches that you could expect 2 evenly-matched players to win in the matchup, assuming a neutral stage (or possibly across all legal stages, depending on your interpretation).

so in the case of a 7-3, you would expect the Megaman player to win 7/10 (or 70/100 if you prefer) games against a Ness player of the same skill/matchup knowledge. By calling a 7-3 "unwinnable", you essentially are maxing out the scale there, and making 8-2, 9-1, 10-0 meaningless.
In reality, 7-3 is a counter of sorts. It's the ratio where the character matchup is playing a significant part in determining the matchup winner, but it does not mean that the matchup is unwinnable. Heck, just through statistics, the Ness player could win all 3 games in a row and take a set off the Mega.

a 6-4 matchup means very little honestly, because the matchup is playing a part, but not to the point of influencing the matchup more than player skill. The better player will still win, but one player is slightly favored assuming same skill-level.

in truthful terms.. anything in the 65:35 etc style is something that toes the line between a 6-4 and 7-3, or that people can't agree on, so it's an average of sorts. I will never use 65/35 to describe a matchup though.

 

[NeuroticSpirit]

This is a long thread and I only skimmed it so I apologize if this has already been answered, but how is Zelda an easy matchup? Maybe it's my lack of experience or only few experiences being against decent Zeldas, but it seems her neutral B covers PK Fire, dash attacks, and greedy grabs. I can't find a way to approach. There aren't too many Zelda mains regardless, but I was wondering if someone could share some advice.

 

[PKBeam]

1. are you spacing your dash attack?
2. Nayrus is still punishable and we don't spam PKF
3. Ness vs Zelda in the air has not changed much from Brawl
4. Zelda has much worse than Nayrus to punish a whiffed grab
5. You don't have to approach unless Zelda is sitting with a lead.

 

[SirBacon]

I have a player at my next tournament who is a pro palutena player. Now I thought she was garbage but apparently he is insanely good. Should I use ness? I know I have to be careful of his reflect barrier, but she is a light character. I main ness and Mac in case if that helps, any advice would be great!!

 

[SirBacon]

I got absolutely creamed by a Captain Falcon today. His grab range is a lot longer than Ness's and if he launched me into the air I had a really tough time not getting juggled. I managed to literally trip him up one match by mashing dtilt whenever he ran at me for the grab, but it wasn't foolproof and in the end he just felt like a much stronger character. Any tips?

The best thing to do is what the other person said above. Run away and PK fire is great and I get Falcons with it all day. As for air, if they have up air or nair combos on you then just mash out neutral air and they can't hit you because of the full body hitbox on the move. Also I might not Falcons are easier to catch with PK pulse if you just forward throw off side they are pretty easy to catch them with it providing the timing and spacing. Hope this helped!

 

[Noa.]

I have a player at my next tournament who is a pro palutena player. Now I thought she was garbage but apparently he is insanely good. Should I use ness? I know I have to be careful of his reflect barrier, but she is a light character. I main ness and Mac in case if that helps, any advice would be great!!

Palutena is one of the worse characters in the game. But she's not awful. Just not that good.

Palutena mostly revolves around her jab and grab game. She has lots of different followups from dthrow. Depending on your percent and what read she makes, she can land a fair, nair, bair, uair, or usmash. Her jab is also a very potent tool. It is a bit slow for a jab (comes out on frame 7 or 8 iirc) but is quite large, and disjointed. She can cancel her jab into a grab, which lets her benefit from her great combo game.

Palutena's biggest weakness would be her frame data. She's not necessarily slow, but none of her moves are that fast, which makes her susceptible to our faster moves like nair, fair, and jab.

 

[neomadgic]

I posted this on the Mega Man matchup thread but I'm reiterating it here so that you Ness players can see it haha.

Now labels is a pretty important discussion to have. I see right now that you guys like the ratio out of a 100 label. Personally, I really dislike using matchup ratios.

In brawl when we discussed matchups this is what I saw as the meaning for matchup ratios:

50:50 even obviously

55:45 mostly even, but one character has a definite edge. It's very small, but definitely there.

60:40 solid advantage, soft counter. Difficult matchup but still perfectly winnable You have to be better than your opponent to win, but not that much better really.

65:35 hard counter. Really difficult matchup. You have to be much better than your opponent to win this matchup in a tournament set. A secondary is not absolutely required, but is definitely recommended.

70:30 Unwinnable. Must use a secondary to beat this character in a tournament setting.


Now this is obviously how I interpreted these numbers. Lots of other people shared similar interpretations to these, but everyone is different. Reading the OP of this thread this is what I coudl find:

The overall score will be based on a score of 100. We will mostly use multiples of 5. The number on the left will represent Mega Man, the number on the right the current match-up opponent in discussion. For example, let's say that we have a favorable match-up against Mewtwo, we would say 70-30 if its solidly in Mega Man's advantage. 90-10 would be a close to unwinnable matchup. 80-20 is a strong "hard counter". 70-30 is a solid advantage. 60-40 would be for an advantage. 50-50 would be neutral. And then it switches sides. Green will indicate an advantage while red is disadvantage for Mega Man. The lighter the color, the more intense the advantage/disadvantage.
Click to expand...
You've defined what the meaning is for 50:50, 60:40, 70:30, 80:20, and 90:10 is. However, I would suggest that you elaborate further on what each number actually means. When you say that Mega Man has a solid advantage, what does that mean? When does a matchup stop being a solid advantage, and starts being a hard counter. Doing your best to clearly define the borders and boundaries between what each definition entails is important. It makes it easier to organize matchups if everyone knows exactly what a ratio means for a matchup. That's why when I described the ratios earlier, I evaluated the matchup in a variety of ways. How should you expect to perform in tournament against equally skilled player, and players who are worse than you? Do you need a secondary? How often should you be winning? By establishing clear cut definitions it's easier to have a dialogue. This is especially helpful when you invite people from other character boards.

When I first came in here and saw that you had listed this matchup as 70:30 I thought you were all being ridiculous. But then I saw what you actually meant by 70:30; solid advantage. I can see that. PK beam reacted so poorly because he misunderstood what you meant when you said that matchup was 70:30.

This is why I don't really like the matchup ratio system. It seems that everyone has a different meaning for each of the numbers and what they mean. They have such a loaded history from Brawl that they should probably be avoided. Plus how many levels of matchups are there really?

Even

Slight advantage

Solid advantage

Huge advantage

Unwinnable

I would say that all matchups can fall under one of those five categories comfortably. Trying to delineate it any further would be a waste of time in my opinion. If there are really only five different kinds of matchups, then why implement a system that has room for 100 different kinds of matchups?

What's the difference between a 65:35, 75:25, and 70:30? It seems rather arbitrary at that point. You have Diddy listed as 52.5:47.5? What does that even mean?

Even just simplifying it down to single digits creates superfluous ratios. 5:5, 6:4, 7:3, 8:2, and 9:1 all have a purpose. What's the difference between a 9:1 or 10:0 matchup though?

Meh this is why I prefer just plain old numbers. 0, +1, +2, +3, and +4. By clearly defining what each number means, you can arrive to a conclusion easily. And you don't have any superfluous or meaningless labels like with other systems.

Welp, I guess you make a great point there. Breaking it down, there are only 5 categories. The hardest part is getting on the same page as everyone else.

I can agree on this rating scale:

0 = 50:50
1 = 55:45
2 = 60:40
3 = 70:30
4 = 80:20

I feel like Ness's weakness is against characters that can wall/camp him out, have long range, fast aerials, and/or great recovery. And with that in mind, here's where I would rank our difficult matchups.

-2: Diddy, Shiek, Rosa,
-1: Shulk, ZSS, Toon Link, Link, Pit, Dark Pit, Olimar, Megaman, Villager, Duck Hunt Dog (I never faced a good one, but FOW lost to MVD so...)
0: Luigi, Fox, Mario, Greninja, Kirby, Marth, Yoshi, Sonic (I have yet to face a really good sonic, so I don't know how painful this matchup is. I feel like we can trade off with most of sonic's spin moves, so it can't be too hard right?)
+1: ROB, Lucario, Captain Falcon, Lucina
+2: DK, DDD, Lil Mac, Zelda, Jigglypuff, Samus, Falco, Ganondorf, Robin
+3: Bowser, Charizard

Characters that I haven't fought/seen enough of: Pikachu, Doc, Peach, Wario, Meta Knight, Ike, GnW, Bowser Jr, Palutena, Wii Fit, Pac-Man

 

[Lukingordex]

So I'm picking Ness and I would like to know how well he does against Lucario, Pikachu and Diddy Kong.

 

[SirBacon]

So I'm picking Ness and I would like to know how well he does against Lucario, Pikachu and Diddy Kong.

Lucario he does okay against he gets the damage up much faster but if lucario gets a lucky hit your done for. Now pikachu really depends on your playstyle vs the person your playing fo me I lose to pika but my freind mains ness and demolishes the same pikachu main. So that's even, as for diddy is sort of the same I am good against diddy but my freind is not. Just make sure to gimp using the PK Thunder tail and your neutral air.

 

[Ranias]

So I'm picking Ness and I would like to know how well he does against Lucario, Pikachu and Diddy Kong.

I think Ness has a slight advantage against Lucario. You can PSI Magnet his Aura Sphere and Force Palm. Ness is also able to kill early, something that hurts Lucario's power bad. However, like SirBacon said, he can get one lucky hit at high percent to kill you.

I think Ness has a moderate advantage against Pikachu. You can PSI Magnet his projectiles. You should also try to learn to PSI Magnet Cancel; right when you absorb a projectile you can roll out of it. This can be useful if Pikachu tries to approach behind his Thunder Jolt. Ness can also protect himself against aerial or Quick Attack approaches by throwing out Fairs in neutral.

Diddy is Ness's toughest matchup imo. For more info you should check out the matchup discussion thread that is stickied at the top of this board.