Ranias
Smash Journeyman
Have any of you brought up the Diddy matchup yet? I just fought one in this online tournament and I lost. 
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Difficult Matchups? - Ask Matchup Questions Here
- Thread starter NocturnalQuill
- Start date
revengeska
Smash Apprentice
I played a Bowser Jr online last night and got COMPLETELY shut down. I mean, I've never been that shut down in my life. I couldn't approach, and I think the only kill I managed to get was when he did an ill-advised cannonball and I reflected it back with the bat. Between his car and mechakoopas, I couldn't approach at all. He was able to combo pretty freely too with the up b. It got so bad that I just decided to SD off the stage.
It's not that he's a superior player, I took Pac-Man in against his Bowser Jr. and was able to beat him on both of those occasions. But Ness vs a Bowser Jr that knows what he's doing feels like a completely unwinnable matchup to me. It was just a few matches out of hundreds that I've played online now, but it's the following morning and I'm still hung up on how awful I got shut down. Considering my area has some great Ness players(Neomagic and Techtonio are recent winners of tournaments here with 25+ entrants), I might have to dabble with Bowser Jr.
It's not that he's a superior player, I took Pac-Man in against his Bowser Jr. and was able to beat him on both of those occasions. But Ness vs a Bowser Jr that knows what he's doing feels like a completely unwinnable matchup to me. It was just a few matches out of hundreds that I've played online now, but it's the following morning and I'm still hung up on how awful I got shut down. Considering my area has some great Ness players(Neomagic and Techtonio are recent winners of tournaments here with 25+ entrants), I might have to dabble with Bowser Jr.
Ranias
Smash Journeyman
I've never had much trouble with Bowser Jr.
The safest option against his car is to just shield since he doesn't have a grab option anymore. You can try punishing it with a PK Fire or PK Thunder, or maybe even a Back Air (to Bowser Jr.'s head), but you'd have to hope he doesn't read you.
You can try either picking up the mechakoopa or just being aware of its presence at all times.
I've noticed one big abusable thing about Bowser Jr. is that he is weak to juggling via PK Thunder. If he Down Air's then you can loop PK Thunder to one of his sides.
If he ever jumps out of his car, he only has one attacking option, to swing his hammer in a wide loop around everywhere BUT under him. So he becomes even more susceptible to juggling if he Up Bs.
revengeska
Smash Apprentice
It was something along the lines of: send mechakoopa out and then charge in with car. I can't react to the car because the mechakoopa is blowing up and stunning me. If I shield he'll drop his car on me and/or go to the other side of the stage. He'll repeatedly get above me and drop the car, blowing up and popping me into the air and then hammering me. Then he rolls to the other side of the stage, rinse and repeat for the whole match.
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Ranias
Smash Journeyman
Maybe this guy is better than Bowser Jr.s I've fought, but I think you can try shielding the clown car and mechakoopa and jumping out of shield and hitting with Nair often. Both shielding and jumping would avoid the mechakoopa, and you would net more damage by hitting Bowser Jr.'s head with an aerial.
Just roll/jump away and avoid the explosive car as best you can. The good thing is that he is really weak underneath his body when he jumps out of the car.
Also, if he is only spamming those 3 moves, then he would probably be really easy to beat.
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ORANGEtheGORILLa
Smash Apprentice
Bj cant handle thunder
Noa.
Smash Master
I think Ness beats bowser jr +2. There's a very good bowser jr in my area but I've had little trouble with him. Bowser jr has a very hard time killing ness, and it's very easy to land uair against him.
As for the situation you're having trouble with, jump over the mecha koopa and Nair bowser jr in the head. That's not a safe approach for bowser jr to do against ness.
Ranias
Smash Journeyman
How about dat Diddy tho
Really, lol. I don't know how to approach nor how to defend.
His monkey flip can both grab and attack with alot of priority.
I can't approach from above because of his Up Air.
If I try to PK Fire him he will just monkey flip me.
If I try to PK Thunder his aerial approach he will kill the PK Thunder with his short endlag and high priority aerials.
Should I just spam Nair or something?
Really, lol. I don't know how to approach nor how to defend.
His monkey flip can both grab and attack with alot of priority.
I can't approach from above because of his Up Air.
If I try to PK Fire him he will just monkey flip me.
If I try to PK Thunder his aerial approach he will kill the PK Thunder with his short endlag and high priority aerials.
Should I just spam Nair or something?
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Noa.
Smash Master
Lol I've not played against diddy enough to be sure, but I feel it's either even or -1 for us. Not sure though.
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
Do a lot of fallback fairs. PKF isn't very safe in this matchup, but Diddy's little feet can't get through our fair waill.
EpyEgghead
Smash Rookie
Is anyone else super annoyed by villagers? I find that 80% of the time I can win but its an uphill battle and I find I have to play in a way that feels cheap to match there campy/hiding style.
Ranias
Smash Journeyman
It's my favorite matchup.
Bat as much as you can (as long as it is safe). When you bat Lloyd Rocket, it reflects with double the speed and more power. When Villager lauches the Lloyd Rocket, either from his pocket or from Side B, it has some startup lag before it gets going, so it is easier to predict coming at you than him predicting it coming at him. Also, the tree can be batted for a guaranteed OHKO if reflected early in the fall, but good Villagers will watch out for this.
Villager's pocket is kind of a problem, but also can be good for you. Villager's pocketed PK Fire or PK Thunder comes out fast and with more damage, but if you are able to predict when it comes out and PSI Magnet it, it will heal you for alot. Also keep in mind that if he has somethign in his pocket, he isn't able to put anything else in his pocket, so you can PK Fire and Thunder alot more with less risk.
When Villager recovers with his Balloon Trip, you are able to hit the balloons with PK Fire and have a standing wall of flame at the edge, lol. Basically, PK Fire is the go to move for edgeguarding against a low recovering Villager. But Villager can also try recovering low and in the stage (on normal FD for example) to try to cause the balloons to not be right at the edge.
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Ranias
Smash Journeyman
Diddy is really hard guys. I just played a Diddy on ladder and lost. Earthbound 360's tip helped, but it was still pretty hard to adjust.
I just played a Diddy on ladder and lost. Earthbound 360's tip helped, but it was still pretty hard to adjust.
PSIBoy
Smash Lord
I'm not surprised. Use his bananas wisely and he gains some stage control. U-throw to u-air can KO, while Monkey Flip mix-ups may hinder approaches and can shut down PKF. His up-b recovery is also really good if you can't gimp him. His aerials are also good too.Diddy is really hard guys.
Noa.
Smash Master
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IrPc9N1qIsDiddy is really hard guys.
This video is helpful for playing against Diddy. It isn't specific to Ness but has a lot of great advice.
PKBeam
Smash Lord
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If she doesn't start the Down-B before you start PKT then she hits you with your own Thunder and you can try to recover again.
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
Been beaten to death and beyond lol
Noa.
Smash Master
Just look at the matchup thread lol. It's chock full of suggestions for how to get around it.
PSIBoy
Smash Lord
I think he's talking about this one: http://smashboards.com/threads/ness...osalina-luma-done.381175/page-3#post-18208190
For the one this message is on, just random questions and small discussions about how to deal with stuff. For the link one, we talk about all aspects of a character matchup one at a time and then move on. We practically beat vs Rosalina to death in that one, as Earthbound360 already said, so check it out.
Luco
Smash Hero
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Wait.... wat?
Techtonio? O_O
I went against him online, randomly bumped into him in FG and we played like a dozen matches before he had to go and friended me. Had no idea he was a Ness taking top spots... that's awesome!
But that strikes me as odd, I thought finding online matches was region locked, but seeing as i've gotten japanese players on my FG i'm wondering whether it's possible to bump into american players too. :o
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Ranias
Smash Journeyman
I think the way matchmaking works is that it matches you up with your region first, then tries other regions.
ORANGEtheGORILLa
Smash Apprentice
Shout outs to my smash corner, for perfect pivots. THANKS TO PERFECT PIVOTS I AM REKTING LUCARIOS WITH PERFECT PIVIOT GRABS. They don't even see it coming. Since it's sorta like wavedashing you can't abuse it. Perfect for spacing and useful for getting in.
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PSIBoy
Smash Lord
Mind if I ask what is a perfect pivot and how do you do it?
PKBeam
Smash Lord
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-nair, pkt, and pkf are good ways to gimp diddys upb offstage
-fair is good in the matchup to stiff aerial approaches
- we are kinda floaty so stay grounded more often to stay out of bad situations (where you are force to land)
I agree wholeheartedly with nakat's sentiments: treat diddy like a soft ic: don't get grabbed
-#1 move to avoid: grab. Always keep in mind when deciding what moves to use. Jab, dash atk, or a dash/pivot grab of your own is a good counter to a raw grab.Diddy is really hard guys.
-nair, pkt, and pkf are good ways to gimp diddys upb offstage
-fair is good in the matchup to stiff aerial approaches
- we are kinda floaty so stay grounded more often to stay out of bad situations (where you are force to land)
I agree wholeheartedly with nakat's sentiments: treat diddy like a soft ic: don't get grabbed
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guedes the brawler
Smash Lord
about the bowser jr match-up, speaking from the perspective of a bowser jr main, it's weird. Ness ****s Jr pretty badly with pk fire spam and etc, but considerign the kind of recovery ness has and the excellent edgeguarding game jr has... yeah.
ORANGEtheGORILLa
Smash Apprentice
You've got the idea. Just keep your spacing with is aireals and downsmash. Works for me every time.
PKBeam
Smash Lord
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Try to get him in the air and capitalise on his not that good aerials.
Also try to gimp him with PKT's tail or even go offstage to edgeguard if you're feeling confident.
I think we can stop a lot of his approaches with Fair.
and avoid his super armour (Fsmash etc.), also avoid Up-B too when being launched in the air, that can kill you at 70.
Also try to gimp him with PKT's tail or even go offstage to edgeguard if you're feeling confident.
I think we can stop a lot of his approaches with Fair.
and avoid his super armour (Fsmash etc.), also avoid Up-B too when being launched in the air, that can kill you at 70.
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
Wait does Mac have super armor (breakable like Yoshi's DJ) or hyper armor (unbreakable like Ike's Aether)? I actually forgot.
PKBeam
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pretty sure hyper armour but I don't think it matters. Just avoid it and punish the ending lag.
Here's a recent match with Nanerz (Diddy Kong) vs Sleeh (Ness). I can't really put any input in myself, and I'd say that Sleeh could have won, but there were some mistakes I saw in his Ness against Diddy. As EB360 mentioned, PKF doesn't do well against Diddy. It could work, but you'd be better off not doing it so close.
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I felt that he was losing steam as the match continued, and the diddy started adapting. sleeh really should've gotten that gimp on the second stock, but this was wifi so whatever. he needed more solid punishes on diddy's landings as well.
Ranias
Smash Journeyman
Anyone have pointers on fighting very skilled Nesses?
Some things I picked up were to go for the Down B gimp, and poking with Back Air can work.
I might just need to git gud in general, lol.
Some things I picked up were to go for the Down B gimp, and poking with Back Air can work.
I might just need to git gud in general, lol.
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Earthbound360
Smash Hero
Don't bother gimping with PSI Magnet. Gimp with PKT. Collide your thunder with theirs.
don't bother if the situation doesn't call for it lol
still a very good option
i'd be careful about when you throw out aerials as ness can compete with himself up there in the dogfight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHKj3CZK3WY
still a very good option
i'd be careful about when you throw out aerials as ness can compete with himself up there in the dogfight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHKj3CZK3WY