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[Ronike]

I can't believe town (which was me, steel, ronike, and xiivi) messed up in endgame like that. We lynched xiivi, then ronike, then steel and mr eric lynched me. Mr eric was scum. I should not have let go on mr eric when xiivi was considered for a lynch. Grr.

You guys Quicklynched me on whatever day before I got to say anything... No seriously, it was night, I went to work, and before I came home, day had come and gone with me getting lynched.

 

[KevinM]

I would quick lynch you all night Ronike <3.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Newbie 3 was painful to watch. Town goes from perfect game to losing.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

it;s the newbie game curse

 

[Cello_Marl]

...I liked it.

 

[Xiivi]

People shouldn't meta me when it comes to other people's set-ups. I let people do their own thing if they have specific mechanics thrown in and don't bother with things that are so overly complex it isn't worth it. Unless I say I spoon-fed them or heavily helped, you probably shouldn't meta me. And in which case I did make it for them & you try to meta it, you haven't played AIMafia with me after I dealt with Omni.

People should also note that I let things fly that I think are bad just because I want to see if they really are as bad as I think they are. Such as the CPR Sorcerer in Grammys Mafia 2. I also am prone to putting roles I hate into my game just to retest them against something else. I might say recruiting roles are dumb, doesn't mean I won't throw one in randomly if I want to test something.

Oh also note to people who send me set-ups:
If you've made it overcomplicated with tons of crazy mechanics & insist on no/few vanilla roles and such; I probably am going to let you do your thing and just hit the basics for you because if you aren't willing to change your crazy stuff then I'm not that interested and I'm going to let you do what you want and learn on your own.

People shouldn't bring up past games I played in, it only further decreases the very low probability of me ever playing again.

Also quoting things/advice I give to others is pretty lame too. Especially when you apply it wrong and tack my name onto it.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

what r u even talkin bout zv

 

[Xiivi]

MafiaScum.

I also like seeing people instantly apply what I say in here to what they are playing when they don't know I add WIFOM to my posts now. :D

Still love how Cello thought a rule I added between games was due to something that happened here when it was 100% due to MafiaScum. lol

 

[Handorin]

Did Marshy give up modding here and give it to Xiivi?

 

[Tom]

Most beautifully stupid thing ever:

yo not to be a **** but wtf are you doing literally quoting something someone else did in a wifom full lylo and calling them stupid? have you ever been the decider in final day wifom lylo where the scum kept you alive with the one player they think you're most likely to mislynch? the whole situation is engineered against you. ive been in it and killed mafia more times than failed in lylo (and ive also been that mafia man, and ive also been that townie hated by the clear) but i would never ever actually quote it out of the game and call someone stupid!

this goes for all of you but adum got my attention quoting it and calling meno stupid! it was unfortunate but he already lived it down by playing more games!

NOT TO MENTION HE WAS A BRAND NEWBIE!! (and the scum were Skyler and Chaco!)

 

[adumbrodeus]

No, Meno wasn't stupid, meno played beautifully there.


But I'm sorry, TUS was pretty ridiculous there, scum engineered a blitz very obviously and before EVEN GIVING MENO A CHANCE TO RESPOND (and that's what really got me) cast the deciding vote.

Complete, 100% WIFORM logic too.


I'm not saying he PERSONALLY is stupid, but that was a stupid move.



I'm not immune from stupid moves either (ask omni how I played the early/mid game in my first mafia on this forum sometime), but you can't say that it was anything but a stupid move.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Tom, will you stay? <3

 

[KevinM]

I call Tom stupid all the time.

If by stupid you mean I say I love you.

And by love you I mean, I love you.

 

[Evil Eye]

I thought we had something special

 

[KevinM]

You don't text me .

Get on Skype tonight.

 

[Ronike]

Hey Xiivi, not to be an *** or anything, but that really would have been nice to know when you looked at DBZ...

Not saying your at fault or nothing, but I got help because I thought I would need help for such a complicated thing and you really weren't what I was looking for if that was true...

 

[Evil Eye]

You don't text me .

Get on Skype tonight.

I so will. It'll be much later but I will be there and not square.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I really don't think adum was trying to call TUSM a stupid person. He was just showcasing that incident as a poorly made decision considering the circumstances.

Yeah it was WIFOM but that doesn't make either side of the WIFOM coin equally prudent by simple virtue of being WIFOM. Considering the circumstances of the day prior, and Chaco's craaaaazy scummy, blitzy play, all signs pointed to him being scum. The most reasonable and likely scenario was Chaco was scum and he went with a POSSIBLE but far less probable scenario as being the case.

Would've been brilliant if it were the case but its simply poor play, and that's the result we got.

I mean, I blatantly gave him **** for it after the game, but those kind of mistakes have to be pointed out if people are to learn from them. He was a newbie, and ultimately that's why I'm a lot more understanding of why it happened, but that doesn't mean he's free from criticism. No one is.

So yeah, really don't think it was meant to be personal.

 

[KevinM]

FROM IS SPELLED FROM NOT FORM GOD FROZEN.

<3.


Seriously what is up with so many people replacing out of games without going into any details we have 4 people replacing out of Code G on D1 not even TWO WEEKS INTO THE GAME.

Marshy, Xiivi, Frozen, Ronike (other vets) Can we have some kind of rule where if you have to replace out of a game for anything less then like a family emergency (and honestly if you lie about this you're kind of a ****) you have to sit out for a month or two?

 

[Overswarm]

My grandpa dies every week

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Kev, would you prefer people to stay in and not read everything because lack of time and get lynched making it a scrub situation for town?

 

[KevinM]

No i mean I'm glad people are replacing out for that reason but why join up if you're not going to give it the time of day from the very start.

Also OS I'm sorry man I actually suffer from a recurring monthly colon cancer.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Can't predict the future *shrug*

 

[adumbrodeus]

Pretty much, **** happens, and mafia games on SWF are quite demanding, especially when compared to games on mafiascum.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Eh, idk, I'd say like if you replace out of one game that's fine n' all, but like if you replace out of two in a row maybe you should have to sit out for some amount of time.

If anything, you should be made to immediately sit out for some period of time if you get modkilled due to inactivity.

I say this having been modkilled for inactivity recently lol.

If we would abandon the stupid modkill rule of accruing independent streaks of like 2-3 days of inactivity = modkill, and use a rule more indicative of apathy like 5-7 straight days of inactivity = modkill, I would totally get onboard for making people who get modkilled that way have to sit in timeout for a bit.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Concerning inactivity modkill rules, what about reducing inactivity limits based on infractions?

Such as, seven days is a flat-out modkill. If you are inactive for five or six days, then you receive a prod, and from that point on in that game, you are modkilled for six days of inactivity, and you receive a prod at four days of inactivity. And so on, to some minimum, probably 3 or 4 days equals modkill (by which point you've shown a great deal of consistent inactivity anyway). This would work best with the "no-modkill in lylo" clause.

Also, inactivity between Days isn't usually addressed except in ad hoc situations. I'd like to see a standard developed, or at least each mod starting to address it at the beginning of their games.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I also dont think posts saying

"IM HERE IVE HAD JOHN A JOHN B AND JOHN C BUT IM READING NOW!"

shoudl count as avoiding prod.

 

[Deleted member]

I remember when Rockin refused me into his upcoming Mafia game, but I can understand why and I'm not going to fight over that. However, he did suggest I ask some questions, probably for the purpose of me improving. So I have two:

1. How do I know when to defend myself and how to do it without performing an AtE?
2. How do I detect WIFOM? I'm having a huge problem detecting this and in one ongoing game, I'm seeing this referrred a lot.

 

[Handorin]

WIFOM is basically anything that you don't know for sure and can't really be verified. Is it something you would do, or is it something you said you would do?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Frozen, let me ask you this, why do you think my name sucks, that was mean and unnecessary, makes me wanna cry...

j/k

 

[Tom]

ya gheb i come and go but im going to be here for the duration of rockin's game, and then we will see what's up

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Concerning inactivity modkill rules, what about reducing inactivity limits based on infractions?

Such as, seven days is a flat-out modkill. If you are inactive for five or six days, then you receive a prod, and from that point on in that game, you are modkilled for six days of inactivity, and you receive a prod at four days of inactivity. And so on, to some minimum, probably 3 or 4 days equals modkill (by which point you've shown a great deal of consistent inactivity anyway). This would work best with the "no-modkill in lylo" clause.

Also, inactivity between Days isn't usually addressed except in ad hoc situations. I'd like to see a standard developed, or at least each mod starting to address it at the beginning of their games.

I think this system is an improvement from a system of "go inactive for 3 days on 3 separate occasions and you die" but I'm always wary of slippery slope systems, which this one is. It's not out of control slippery slope though, and ultimately I think in practice it'll work fine.

What do you mean by inactivity between days? Like the sending in of night nights, or like masons/scum/neighbors just not communicating privately when they're supposed to be?

I also dont think posts saying

"IM HERE IVE HAD JOHN A JOHN B AND JOHN C BUT IM READING NOW!"

shoudl count as avoiding prod.

I sort of agree but sort of don't. The person who comes in and says stuff like that still recognizes being transparent about what they're doing is important and is taking the time atleast to prevent themselves from getting modkilled, but just hasn't had the time to post constructive material. If people keep this pattern up and basically do nothing but these types of posts, ultimately the mod should either suggest replacement, or they can be removed from the game by natural means (lynch, NK, etc.)

If you're forcing people to post "constructive material" in order to count as a post, then you're gonna run into the trouble of judging what counts as constructive material, and ultimately you'll be faced with people just posting god awful talking points that will just muddle the **** out of games.

Principally I don't really like people doing the whole prod dodging but practically there really isn't much you can do.

I remember when Rockin refused me into his upcoming Mafia game, but I can understand why and I'm not going to fight over that. However, he did suggest I ask some questions, probably for the purpose of me improving. So I have two:

1. How do I know when to defend myself and how to do it without performing an AtE?
2. How do I detect WIFOM? I'm having a huge problem detecting this and in one ongoing game, I'm seeing this referrred a lot.

1.) AtE is appealing to emotion. Don't attack people personally, and don't try to make people feel bad for you, or paint people accusing you as bad people. Try to ONLY address what does not make logical sense in any attacks against you, or others if you're trying to defend other people. Think about things objectively, from a perspective of people who don't have the same knowledge you do, and reason out why what someone is suggesting doesn't make sense. Always ask yourself, "does my post deal primarily with logical analysis, or do I talk a lot about personal things, or emotional attributes?" If you find that you're doing more of the latter two, reconsider what you're trying to say and how to say it.

2.) WIFOM is a scenario where you're basically presented with two fairly evenly likely scenarios and you're basically trying to out guess "what someone would do" in order to get the answer. Statements like "well if I was mafia I'd do X", or "there's no way a townie would do Y" or "the mafia did A to make us think B" are all tell tale lines of WIFOM logic. The reason going down these paths of reasoning is problematic is they often lead to logical circles. If you make an argument saying "Mafia did A to make us think B", the response exists that "Mafia knew that we would think that Mafia did A to make us think B, but in reality, because they knew we would think that, they actually did A to to make us THINK B, but they actually DID C". It becomes a giant cluster**** of "What if they know that I know that they know that I knew that they would know that I would know that they would know that I would know that they would do A and expect B." The logic ultimately makes about as much sense as that last sentence.

So yeah, generally you don't want to make arguments based on WIFOM scenarios UNLESS there is substantial contextual evidence that elucidates what likely occurred and why.

Frozen, let me ask you this, why do you think my name sucks, that was mean and unnecessary, makes me wanna cry...

j/k

lol but I said your name was awesome...

I'm guess that was supposed to be an example to show SSBF what AtE is? lol

 

[DtJ Jungle]

if you have finals or something tell us ahead of time, dont just disappear. It's just sort of a respect for the game and the other players sort of thing.

I agree with your judging a constructive post, though. But what it comes down to is if you know you're going to be busy, then we should know ahead of time. That way mods and players know what's going on when someoen goes inactive. I feel that most of the problem is that someone disappears and you're like lolwtf. It's hard to move things when someone goes inactive, but much harder when you have no idea if they are going to come back especially as a mod, in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member]

@Frozenflame: Thanks for letting me know. This should really help me in future games I play.

 

[Cello_Marl]

What do you mean by inactivity between days? Like the sending in of night nights, or like masons/scum/neighbors just not communicating privately when they're supposed to be?

The former. I don't think the latter could be or should be regulated.

WIFOM is a scenario where you're basically presented with two fairly evenly likely scenarios and you're basically trying to out guess "what someone would do" in order to get the answer.

Expanding on a tangent to this, the part I think people often have trouble with when it comes to interpreting events is the bold section, "fairly evenly likely scenarios". Something being suggested or mentioned doesn't assign a flat 50% chance compared to another event. Judging why people do what they do usually garners the best results, whether by showing people where your head is at or by finding scum.

 

[adumbrodeus]

lol but I said your name was awesome...

I'm guess that was supposed to be an example to show SSBF what AtE is? lol

Pretty much, but also to mess with you, which I frown on a great deal in game after RVS.

Sort of showing that I'm not a ridiculous hard-a**, well when I'm not playing anyway.

 

[SummonerAU]

if you have finals or something tell us ahead of time, dont just disappear. It's just sort of a respect for the game and the other players sort of thing.

I agree with your judging a constructive post, though. But what it comes down to is if you know you're going to be busy, then we should know ahead of time. That way mods and players know what's going on when someoen goes inactive. I feel that most of the problem is that someone disappears and you're like lolwtf. It's hard to move things when someone goes inactive, but much harder when you have no idea if they are going to come back especially as a mod, in my opinion.

I have semester end exams coming up but I should manage it as long as Sleepover doesn't start today/tomorrow and it doesn't go into hyper post mode.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

See guys

thats how you do it

 

[Ronike]

On prod dodging: I honestly think trying to dole out prods to people who have posted is a bad idea, regardless of quality. It's just a slippery slope into more activity madness which can only keep people away. That and the only reason people should be prod dodging without posting a reason is when they are scum, in which case town should pick up on it, ala me to frozen in ffvii (even if I wasn't town).

On replacing dealio: Dont think this is a good idea necesarily either. It is entirely possible to overload yourself, especially if you're new, in which case the player should replace out of games they want to and games that have replacements set up. However, outing of a game to join another one is unnacceptable and players that do so shouldn't be allowed into another game. Also players that habitually overload themselves should be cut off. Basically, if you feel a player is overloading themselves or just replaced out of a game you are in, I feel you should alert the mod of the game they are trying to join and then the mod can deal with it.

On Tom: TOM!!! I missed you. You should aim me some time or something so we can talk about dbz. The iPhone app's free and works pretty well. Also props for trying to play a game on your phone, I could never do it

 

[Evil Eye]

That and the only reason people should be prod dodging

Keyword emphasized. I've seen lazy townies do this literally all the time.