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[Jizzaster]

so Apparently You Can Spike Fox After The Cg But Its Very Hard. So This Whole Thing Is Kinda Useless Hehe. But I Am Gonna Try It On Other Characters Later.

I Told You Ozzyboy! -_-

 

[Blad01]

This could be used at highest % anyways (On certain DIs... I don't still don't know which ones)

Double jab to Bair (to DJ dair sometimes) would be better imo, more reliable.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You'd need to do this on some fastfallers.

 

[Conviction]

Fair has more range (they may be able to DJ away easier if you try bairing) and fair can "drag" your opponent down for a guaranteed stage spike.

Also sometimes when I try bairing a fox out of his firefox he's able to grab the edge instead of my bair hitting him. Iono



If you jab, and they DJ right back to the same place, yeah you can jab them again which forces a firefox and a free fair spike for you. But a smart fox will DJ aiming for the edge, not your face again.

What happens if they don't DJ?

Fair will.

DJ backwards would move them out of them out of the way wouldn't it?


Fox's fair still leaves his behind open. It doesn't matter how high fox's fair sends him up cause Falco's fair will drag him all the way back down.

Problem with this is Fox's Fair gives him vertical height and free horizantol movement of peach's floats so we could always fall back when we Foxcoptor

I'm gonna try it out on more characters later. I'm also gonna see if running off the stage, b sticking laser towards the stage and then fairing is faster.

My problems are posted in the qoute.

 

[Ruuku]

It won't work on G&W since he can uair whatever you want to try to do to him off stage. Then he may possibly stage spike/air puff you with up B. In Fox' case, this seems more like a mixup than something guaranteed. Try that on Ness and Lucas.

 

[Conviction]

It won't work on G&W since he can uair whatever you want to try to do to him off stage. Then he may possibly stage spike/air puff you with up B. In Fox' case, this seems more like a mixup than something guaranteed. Try that on Ness and Lucas.

Yea this seems perfect to use on Ness and Lucas

 

[wangston]

So apparently you can spike fox after the CG but its very hard. so this whole thing is kinda useless hehe. but i am gonna try it on other characters later.

How? Please tell me how and what percents? I've been trying something similar to what you were doing cause it's annoying not being able to spike fox.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

I think the biggest point that we're all missing here is that Falco can true combo a jab out of his downthrow to very high percents and it leads to some very interesting setups, particularly off the stage.

I'm pretty sure u can't jab after a dthrow at high percents. That would lead to easy ways to kill like say your opponent is at 200%. you could just dthrow-jab-upsmash. that would be godly.

Double jab to Bair (to DJ dair sometimes) would be better imo, more reliable.

Fair has more range and priority, how is bair or dair more reliable?

My problems are posted in the qoute.

1. if they dont DJ, then edgehog them.

2. In the OP i stated DJing back will get them out but it puts them in a bad position.

3. if they fair right in your face you may be able to jab them again if you time/space it right.

How? Please tell me how and what percents? I've been trying something similar to what you were doing cause it's annoying not being able to spike fox.

This is what pure said in the falco backroom.

"I'm like 99% sure we can spike Fox out of the chaingrab, so long as it's during percents before he goes into tumble animation. I think you have to be frame-perfect for it to land, but that isn't too hard with the buffer system."

 

[gunterrsmash01]

Can someone test this out for me? Against DK / CG to spike to pivot fair (stage spike). i think it may be a 0-death on DK.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

Bump, can someone test what i posted above?

 

[J4pu]

That doesn't work. Fox will grab the edge before you will be able to run off and dair him. Its hard and risky to do anyways cause you can accidently fastfall SD.

nah, you can get the run-off Dair in first, problem is Fox recovers from hitstun faster than you recover from Dair after-lag, then fox gets to the edge first
or even worse he footstools you on his way up. (it's happened to me)

 

[Hawks go Caw]

I've tried testing it Ozz, but lvl 9 DK computers die from CG > spike making it impossible to test the Fair part without a human

 

[J4pu]

Why do a Fair on DK when you can do a SH non-FF Dair spike for a guaranteed 0-Death

CG > SH Dair > land on stage, turn around, right away do a SH-backflip thing and start holding down while you're ascending, then on your way down right when you reach DK use Dair

this should also work to give Falco back the 0-death on Falco again.

the way to test it on computers is to only CG them to like 20% before you Dair them.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

wow i really gotta mess with this non FF dair thing

 

[pure_awesome]

You can Dair DK out of his UpB?

I did not know this. I thought it was like a spinning whirlwind of priority.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

the top part is vulnerable

 

[Denzi]

Wow, I had no idea either. I knew ranged attacks worked, but all attempts I've made to spike a DK out of his upB have failed.

 

[Typ_Ex]

ive never had much success dair-ing w/o fast falling or succeeding the spike part. so i usually just phantasm on to the ledge and use my invincibility frames to go through dk's up B

 

[J4pu]

if DK meteor cancels well enough he can make it back on stage.

 

[wangston]

I've always thought if dk does one of his attacks other than up b he won't get back so I usually footstool him or dair him. The footstool is from trying to do a rising dair.

 

[Jon?]

If the DK knows what they are doing, CG to spike is not a free stock on him. I don't think you can Dair spike him while he's doing up-B, I think DK has invince frames through the majority of his Up-B. Not 100% sure on, can someone check?

 

[J4pu]

I've always thought if dk does one of his attacks other than up b he won't get back so I usually footstool him or dair him. The footstool is from trying to do a rising dair.

wouldn't his UpB ruin your rising Dair?

@jon
DK has to use his 2nd jump then his UpB right after if he wants to recover from the Dair spike in the first place, so when you fall down to his level he will have already started it a little while back.

the invincibility/SA frames are only in the beginning, all you have to do is work on timing your Dair so that it hits before DK's UpB hits you.

somebody just record it and put a video up already, it seriously isn't hard to do.

 

[kismet2]

wouldn't his UpB ruin your rising Dair?

@jon
DK has to use his 2nd jump then his UpB right after if he wants to recover from the Dair spike in the first place, so when you fall down to his level he will have already started it a little while back.

the invincibility/SA frames are only in the beginning, all you have to do is work on timing your Dair so that it hits before DK's UpB hits you.

somebody just record it and put a video up already, it seriously isn't hard to do.

I saw your thread and you do know that normal lasers just stops horizontal momentum right? So there really shouldn't be any need for wavebouncing it.

 

[BleachigoZX]

Why'd you qoute?
Also is Bair, Grab a true combo out of a D-throw? (Pivot-Walk into the Bair peoples)

 

[kismet2]

Why'd you qoute?
Also is Bair, Grab a true combo out of a D-throw? (Pivot-Walk into the Bair peoples)

I was and still am being distracted by Pokemon. I'm trying to finish my Sinnoh Pokedex, head to Stark Mountain to obtain a life orb for my adamant nature Scizor.

 

[BleachigoZX]

Awww God **** it!!

 

[gunterrsmash01]

J4PU's 0-death on DK seems to be working on CPUS. I'll test it out on a human later.

 

[kismet2]

Awww God **** it!!

You're into competitive Pokemon? lol

 

[clowsui]

lol @ kismet
what are the IVs on that thing? plus i don't see why you didn't just keep breeding for jolly scizor so that u can outspeed threats
was it you or reflex that got their ds stolen?

 

[Vlade]

^ no point having jolly when scizor is using bullet punch most of the time.

 

[BleachigoZX]

You're into competitive Pokemon? lol

No just smash and 3rd Strike (not anymore)

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Why do a Fair on DK when you can do a SH non-FF Dair spike for a guaranteed 0-Death

CG > SH Dair > land on stage, turn around, right away do a SH-backflip thing and start holding down while you're ascending, then on your way down right when you reach DK use Dair

this should also work to give Falco back the 0-death on Falco again.

the way to test it on computers is to only CG them to like 20% before you Dair them.

And Teching the stage and DIing onto the stage doesn't change anything?

 

[J4pu]

i've been away from competitive smash for a while recently, did teching the stage after the Dair become widely used?

last i remember it was **** hard and barely anybody could get it to work.

oh, and DK also has an ungodly laggy Fair (same as falco) so just look at their hands during the last CG dthrow, if they look like they're getting ready to try the tech, fake the Dair and let them lag themselves downward, then follow that up with the non-FF Dair.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

i've been away from competitive smash for a while recently, did teching the stage after the Dair become widely used?

last i remember it was **** hard and barely anybody could get it to work.

oh, and DK also has an ungodly laggy Fair (same as falco) so just look at their hands during the last CG dthrow, if they look like they're getting ready to try the tech, fake the Dair and let them lag themselves downward, then follow that up with the non-FF Dair.

I heard that teching is harder, but I thought I had heard an easier way was to double stick DI so you land on the stage itself in the spike. No longer having to tech. And I wouldn't know about teching in compeitative anyway, everyone I know on wifi cannot tech and anyone that could would have a hard time doing it xD

 

[Hawks go Caw]

I found that CG > non-sweet spot Dair > land on the stage > Dair spike works like a charm (on computers).

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I've done the non-spiked Dair a lot due to wifi mistakes, and I find that it's not all that great. I find everyone jumps and tries to recover above me and thus it's just normal edgeguarding.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

I manged to do it once or twice on a human out of their second jump and they were just like, "whut?" then I spiked them again. But yeah, I think ultimately just going for the spike straight up is best most of the time.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Yep. Dispite our numerous attempts to find an alternative to the CG > Spike, hardly anything is better than it. Classics just never die.

 

[J4pu]

psh, if you think hitting someone right out of their 2nd jump with the non-spike-Dair is good you should try doing it with the spike-Dair. It's basically an auto-gimp against half the cast, a good chance of gimp against another 3rd, but does basically nothing against the rest (**** you metaknight).

maybe that's what's next for Falco, trying to read their 2nd jump after the CG and hitting them out of it. Too bad it's all based on what your opponent wants to do.

 

[Blad01]

psh, if you think hitting someone right out of their 2nd jump with the non-spike-Dair is good you should try doing it with the spike-Dair. It's basically an auto-gimp against half the cast, a good chance of gimp against another 3rd, but does basically nothing against the rest (**** you metaknight).

maybe that's what's next for Falco, trying to read their 2nd jump after the CG and hitting them out of it. Too bad it's all based on what your opponent wants to do.

Wasn't punishing the 2nd jump already in our arsenal, in 2008 ? :o