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Mmac

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
1,967
Location
BC, Canada
I forgot about this.

I tried it with b-air as well, and that didn't work. If it needs to be the initial frame, then what use is there to even attempt using n-air or b-air? By the way, whenever you get around to getting that video it, I'd actually like to see you in a battle, because there is a difference between brawling against someone and testing out something with someone.
Any of the Tail Sweeps can stop a Charged Shot, and doesn't need much timing at all

An uncharged Charge Shot does 3% damage.
ANYTHING can stop a uncharged shot. If you can't stop it with his Bair, then you aren't trying. I am playing that card.

I tried b-air as well, and while Yoshi is wagging his tail, he gets hit. If by initial frame you mean the first frame, then what are the odds of actually getting n-air or b-air in to stop a fully charged Charge Shot?
Initial frame of the Nair only. Bair once again stops the shot with any of the tail sweeps
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
5,523
Location
Sweden
Beating a Good Ganondorf still isn't very hard ;P

Can he possibly be Samus's easiest prey ?
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
16,917
Location
Europe
I'd like to debate the sandbag match-up a little more...Is he completely immune to mindgames? If so he wins 110:-10 not 100:0
 

alchfilosofer

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Messages
753
When is this matchup changing?

Marth: 55-45 Samus's favor (according to a former Marth main that I constantly spar with)

How to win:
Spacing is key here.. Marth has an incredibly fast, effective, safe, aggressive rushdown game. Samus needs to dash away and punish, punish out of shield, and bait predictable, laggy moves like fsmashes. Uncharged shots stun enough for ftilts to keep your space. You basically want to keep marth at ftilt/grab's length away most of the time, until you can get him off the edge. If the Marth gets too close for comfort and tries to do a full swords dance, try to shield. If he's not smart and continues to mindlessly input the combo and poke through shield with a down/green hit for the fourth part of the combo, you can wait and get a free shield grab on him. For breathing room, dtilt and dsmash are good so that you can pop Marth up above you in the air. His dair isn't too great, so if you can juggle him with uairs or get him stuck on platforms above you on stages like Battlefield or Yoshi's island, he'll have a hard time. Then get him off the edge!
Gimping him is really easy because of his limited recovery. If you can't hug the ledge fast enough to tether-gimp, you can do a bomb drop gimp and hope it hits him on his way up. If the Marth is too aggressive and comes after you off stage, dodge until you're pretty far under the stage. If the Marth will follow you, he'll be forced to sooner or later up B back to the ledge. If you can bait this you can lead an uncharged shot to interrupt his up B, or you can tether to hog the ledge.

TLDR Version: space away with ftilts, up B out of shield if he doesn't space fairs, use grabs to get him off the edge, gimp with tether hog, uncharged shot or bomb drops. If you can, get him above you in the air.. Uair juggles him well

Watch out for:
Fair juggles, tippers when you mess up your spacing, grabs when you camp shield too much, swords dance pressure.. Also, I notice it's hard to recover against a Marth if you recover too high. Getting up from the ledge can be hard too, because Marth can up b OOS or shield grab your fair if you don't space it right, he can short hop over any ledgehop zairs and punish you with his quick aerials, and he can walk to space a tipper from most of your ledgehop recoveries. His fair also eats through missiles and such. Dsmash also hurts if your shield is low from camping in it as well. His uair juggles Samus like crazy because her dair is too slow, so make sure a marth is never below you like that. Marth punishes mistakes and lag, and lots of Samus's moves leave her open to them....
Ok... no great marth EVER uses Fsmash unless he's completely sure it will hit and it will kill. Uncharged shoots are not very useful, he can perfet shield them or just short hop over them. Few marths will try that, many will end the combo early or slow down the combo to make sure it will shield poke. True d-tilt is useful against him, but juggle him wile he can dancing blade stall, counter and shield breaker?. Many marths do have limiter recovery, few actually know how to use well their shield breaker, dancing blade stall and counter, and very few time correctly their UP-B.

TLDR: The match up is no samus favor if the marth plays like he was in melee and don't know much about their stuff, other wise is on marth favor
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
we will move on to new chars in the morning. i had to deal with hurricane ike destroying my city so i didnt have time to update. expect 2 new ones and expect marth to stay(omorrow), no one has talked about him enough.
 

0RLY

A great conversation filler at bars and parties
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
2,681
Location
Temple University, Philadelphia
Marth is like 5 tiers higher than Samus for a reason. I'd say 65:35 in Marth's favor. As for Yoshi, even. I just played a lotta brawl yesterday and I felt like posting that general idea.
 

Serris

ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
2,946
Location
Plymouth, Massachusetts
NNID
Herple-Derples
3DS FC
5043-4507-3351
Before we move off of Yoshi, I'd like to make you guys aware that Samus can get through Yoshi's back-air with projectiles. You just need to follow up a homing missile with another projectile.

Egg spam can be easily dealt with with uncharged shots and homing missiles. As for killing Yoshi, you have several options, but there's one in particular that works especially well:

Samus can go directly from a reverse homing missile into a down-tilt. Use this to stun Yoshi, then move for the kill.

The matchup itself?

40:60/Yoshi
or
45:55/Yoshi.
 

Crystanium

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
5,921
Location
California
I forgot about this.
I remembered this. Shame.

Any of the Tail Sweeps can stop a Charged Shot, and doesn't need much timing at all
I'm still waiting for the videos. Surely you've had enough time.

ANYTHING can stop a uncharged shot. If you can't stop it with his Bair, then you aren't trying. I am playing that card.
I'm not "trying"? I think you might be right. No, I wasn't trying. I was trying at all. No, instead, I didn't bother. Right. You can say that I'm not trying. I'll just say that my brother must be good at hitting Yoshi with an uncharged Charge Shot. Do you see how that works?

Initial frame of the Nair only. Bair once again stops the shot with any of the tail sweeps
Then n-air isn't going to help much, now is it? Oh, that's right. Yoshi players like to use b-air in their approach.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
im getting new characters as we speak. summarize what we have talked abou and ill post ALL of it up as soon as i recieve it
 

Crystanium

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
5,921
Location
California
Just to let you know, Xyro, I will be using your match-up thread as a source of information in my Samus guide. I used this thread for some information on Bowser.
 

Dobs1007

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
894
Location
West Chester, PA
For our next character we discuss I would like to propose DK character giving me trouble right now would like to here what you guys have to offer on match-up.
 

Hive

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 12, 2006
Messages
1,605
Location
Mountain View, ca
honestly, these weekly matchups have been up for over a month :/
I hate to b*tch and I know you've prolly had a lot going on xyro, but could you please put up some new characters, it should only take a few minutes tops.... :(
Or at least close the thread... suspense is killing me lol
And I still want to hear your input on some of the wifi matches you've been having lately! you said you would! I'm still very interested in what you turn up :/
 
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