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[Chaco]

Mmac, he plays me frequently.

 

[Mmac]

Gee, thanks for the compliment.

I don't recall where I stated Yoshi's DownB / B> were his "primary" attacks. I was merely pointing out some weaknesses he had against Samus. Maybe I didn't word it clearly enough, if I didn't then my apologies.

It's probably because your reasons are so short and those were pretty much the only attacks you listed. Infact, other than the Dair>Nair combo, you basically only listed specials. Specials which any good Yoshi shouldn't use commonly in the first place.

Easier said than done, but if you can pull it off, there goes his recovery. Just mentioned this since Dair doesn't always work, as the Yoshi's I've fought go on super armor frenzy with their second jumps.

EDIT: I didn't even use the phrase "great tactic". I stated it was lethal, which it is. This is an analysis thread, analyze people's posts, plz. Thorough reading can give you valuable information that skimming doesn't.

the main reason I'm mad at your post, because it's "Stereotypical" as hell, and I'm kidding. I can list about 3 different people with different mains who basically said the same thing you did. Start off by saying his Airgame, Groundgame, Recovery, or Camping sucks, list a few advantages, and finish it off with "YOSHI GETS PWN3D BY FOOTSTOLLZ LOLOLOOLOLOLOL". It's just so annoying, and you basically just did that, so I have a right to be upset.

Especially the Footstooling. I can't stress that enough. It doesn't work. Yes it's lethal, but you'll probably do it once out of every 100 attempts. You'll just end up talking more damage than killing him, or die yourself. Just do Dair's. If you don't Spam it, it should break the armour at about 60%

Mmac, he plays me frequently.

Well... thats probably why he thinks Yoshi uses DownB Regularly, because, unless you changed your playstyle from the last time I've played you, you are a DownB happy person, and proud of it...

 

[Chaco]

I hardly use it now thank you...<.~

 

[Hylian]

Don't have time to write a lot, so for now:

Marth: 40-60(Marths favor)
Yoshi: 50-50
Sandbag: 0-100

 

[Chaco]

And also he plays DarkL regularly to....just to throw that out there .

 

[Mmac]

Hmmm... howcome there's so much widespread in this Matchup. It's going on both scales, for both sides.

Personally, I'm with the "Yoshi > Samus" Crowd. I really haven't had much problem with her. The only thing I found troublesome was her Zair, but other than that, It's pretty much fine.

 

[Smash_Gigas]

the main reason I'm mad at your post, because it's "Stereotypical" as hell, and I'm kidding. I can list about 3 different people with different mains who basically said the same thing you did. Start off by saying his Airgame, Groundgame, Recovery, or Camping sucks, list a few advantages, and finish it off with "YOSHI GETS PWN3D BY FOOTSTOLLZ LOLOLOOLOLOLOL". It's just so annoying, and you basically just did that, so I have a right to be upset.

The word "sucks" was not found in any of my posts. Just stated that Samus did some things better. That doesn't mean any of Yoshi's game sucks. I've learned the hard way he can pull off some nasty stuff. This is also what I see through my eyes, which isn't always 100% correct.

Of course footstooling isn't easy to land, neither do I expect anyone to let me land it, but if the opportunity comes up, one needs to be able to recognize it as a move worth using. I mention it with Yoshi, since his UpB doesn't reach as far as, say... [insert character here]? It's something to look at as a possiibility. Even the smallest pieces are necessary to complete a puzzle.

I don't know what other mainers say about Yoshi, and don't really care. I'm discussing Samus.

... he thinks Yoshi uses DownB Regularly...

I thought I swapped to Controller Port 2?

It's just so annoying, so I have a right to be upset.

Well sure, I would be too. But don't let it out on other people.


EDIT: Forgot I put Samus down as 80/20, and don't know why I did. Fixed that. I must've been stupid at the time or something. 60/40

 

[Xyro77]

Yoshi

Rank: 60-40

HtW: SInce yoshi has not a 3rd jump, its rather easy to punish his recovery by edge hog or graple hog(if he chooses to egg throw recover). UP+B out of shield works for yoshi's jabs or his fair/u-air/b-air. His shield hurts him more than helps, he cannot jump out of it so attacking his shield with missles or zair is unpunishable. Also, any move he does out of shield is slow enough to see coming and therefore easy to counter.

WoF: Super armor jumps allow him to get into your range and hit you even though he may take damage at the same time. U-air kills at a decently low %s.


SandBag

Rank: 0-100(no hope for samus)

HtW: You cant. He gets smashed and bashed during EVERY wifi loading screen and in home run contest but yet returns with no bruises or cuts or even a sad face. He enjoys pain and will not stop returning from the dead. The best advice is to give up the match.

WoF: Wifi and home run contest

 

[I feel asleep]

Marth: would be somewhere between the "hard" and "very hard" matchups for samus. somewhere like, 35-65.(marth's favor)

Yoshi: imo he would be something like 70-30(Samus' Favor) or even 80-20. i have only played 1 'decent' yoshi player. and it was unimpressive at best. but he played Yoshi, so he got props for that.

Sandbag: Nobody, not even the the manliness that is captain falcon could handle the might of sandbag. there will be no survivors.

 

[0RLY]

Just so I can say this, I have played a decently skilled Yoshi. I assume you are a much better player than him, so I can't give the most accurate advice based on my experiences with just one Yoshi user. Yoshi needs more attention

Smash_Gigas, I'm sorry, but you have no idea what what you are talking about. If you think that Yoshi's DownB/SideB are his primary attacks, and think that footstooling is a great tactic basically tells me you have never played a good Yoshi in your life.

Since Orly is more serious and knows a bit more, I'll comment on his.

Yeah, Yoshi's shield is kinda lame, but it does help out alot in this matchup against her projectile spam, and also tends to slide when hit, which helps also. However, I think most Yoshi's Spotdodge attacks. I never even thought of DJ Armour for a defencive measure...

If Samus approaches with a couple homing missiles, your shield will make predicting your next move a LOT easier. Afaik, Yoshi's shield only slides when hit by a charge shot or super missile. Side dodging slow moving missiles may get you hit anyways, or at least hit by the missile behind it.

Ftilt is pretty good, but I don't think Dtilt will work well if he's approaching from the air because of the grounded hitbox. And I don't think you can roll past safely if he's in his shield. Yeah, he can't attack directly out of it, but it's not like it's an actual Egg that takes two weeks to break out of.

My dog could figure out that dtilt don't work on airborne foes (no offense :D). My buddy uses Yoshi's jabs out of shield, but that's really the only move fast enough to be used. It doesn't have that much range, and doesn't have much IASA frames, much like Wolf's jabs. That's why I feel safer to roll against a shielded Yoshi. I usually don't NEED to, it's just nice to know I have the option.

Yeah, this is where you lost me. Yoshi will NEVER use DownB in the air, unless he's aiming for the ledge, or you are battling way up in the sky where he knows you can't punish the landing lag even when missed. Dair isn't that laggy anyways, and has 0 Ending lag (Has some landing lag though), and it outprioritizes your Uair. Also, Yoshi can Fastfall way faster than you can, so I don't think you can capitalize punishing an airdodge in time

My friend loves using DownB, and on WiFi, Dair feels laggy. In response to the bolded text, my friend actually knows about that. He just doesn't know what the right height is. I played a couple more matches to get some more experience with this. Instead of DownB, I'm seeing more of: DI close to the edge of the stage with his back facing the stage. Then a fastfalled bair. Yoshi IS reaaalllly fast in the air, and sometimes, I can't even chase his fastfall bair with my zair. I'd have to give this one to you.

No comments. Yoshi slow *** roll helps getting by Samus's quick Dsmash. Never played a bomb heavy Samus so can't really say how much it effects him.

Again with the Footstooling? Footstooling just does not work for ANYONE. It's because you can't Footstool someone if they're attacking or airdodging, which is exactly what Yoshi is going to do. Because you are going for a Footstool, you are completely vulnerable to attack. Yoshi doesn't have to go for an Airdodge, he can very well attack you also. Rising Nair can Stagespike, Uair can kill, and Fair/Dair can lead to getting spiked yourself! Not only that, but he can just as very well go for the ledge. Plus trying to bait an Airdodge will not work. Yoshi has too much horizontal and vertical airspeed. If he didn't already breeze past you, then he is probably too high for it to matter in the first place

You might as well stick with your airs.

If Yoshi airdodges, you will just double jump and be closer to punish Yoshi as his airdodge ends. If he's recovering with an aerial, then yes, the footstool animation is canceled. The only reason I wouldn't use my aerials is because Yoshi's have more priority - I mean range. Priority doesn't take place in the air. Yoshi also has super armor on his double jump which makes 4 out of Samus' 6 aerials do nothing. Samus' bair is hard enough to land as it is, and her dair goes 50/50 against Yoshi's uair. Attempting a footstool at least gives you the chance to dodge whatever aerial Yoshi is rising with or get closer to where Yoshi's airdodge will end. Of course, I could be wrong because I've only played one Yoshi user.

Not really. Utilt has too much startup lag, and can't punish Airdodging at all. Yes, you can combo him good, but the same thing can be said for Samus

The slow startup is what punishes the airdodge. Yoshi double jumps and airdodges as he is about to reach the ledge. By then, Samus' utilt should land by the time Yoshi touches the ground. Her utilt's duration is pretty long. The only flaw with this is having Yoshi airdodge through you and land behind you. Meh... we could try utilting backwards? Or maybe space it better? I dunno. I landed it for a KO once, and it seemed effective. When I tried this the next couple of times, he would just throw eggs at me

These are just people you are quoting and not actually from your own words, isn't it? Anyways, Yeah, Zair and Screw Attack are probably the best (If not, only) Good options Samus really has on Yoshi. However, Screw Attack can be extremely punished if missed. Also he has a few more approaches than that.

Name some of those approaches. I need to learn too :/. Oh and any character can punish a missed screw attack. Screw Attack outprioritizes all of your aerials, so NYEEEAAH! >

Zair is probably the single most annoying thing I have ever accoutered, and stops his Bair hard. Yoshi's Crawl actually gets a use in this matchup because he can just sneak past Zair spammers! I'm not sure about Uair though, I don't think it can beat out the Bair. And Yoshi's will rarely Dash Grab as an approach. It's only good if you know it's going to grab, and if Yoshi is just going to run straight at her, of course she's going to dodge it

Alternate between homing missiles and zair to make crawling look stupid, force Yoshi in his shield, and rampage. Yoshi swings his tail up and down while using his bair - a moving hitbox. Timing uair to land while his tail doesn't intercept Samus will allow it to go through. Samus' other aerials won't reach.
I'm pretty sure you'll start to dash grab if you end up getting screw attacked 50 times in a row from touching my shield too much. If Yoshi dash attacks through Samus' side dodge, Yoshi can pull out one of his lightning fast jabs before Samus can retaliate. That, or I blame WiFi lag.

However, this gets stopped hard by just simply ducking and punishing with a Dtilt. And yeah, Yoshi always Air Releases, but too bad He can't do anything from it unlike the other characters.

Yoshi has a grab release chain grab on like 1/6th of the cast, doesn't he? I don't see Yoshi's dtilt in much action. It seems to have the same effects as ftilt.

He makes it sound like Yoshi's is a grab *****. Well... I guess he's a Pivot Grab ***** (Something you want to look out for when approaching), but not a Dash Grab *****. And there is alot more to this matchup than that.

I'm a shield camper. When you can't roll with your main for 8 years, you'll turn into one of these too. *cries a little on the inside* Strange how a character MEANT to roll, has the worst roll in the game. Cmon Samus! Pull out that boost ball you got from the Chozo some odd number of years ago!

Also, Your projectiles are completely pointless in this matchup. His shield helps alot to the spam, and he can also destroy every projectile you have (Even a fully charged shot) with his Bair.... and Nair.... and Dair.... and Jabs.... and Dash Attack.... and Usmash.... and Fsmash.... and Dsmash.... and Dtilt..... and EggRoll.... and Egg Projectiles....

Not on wifi you can't! Sakurai said so! That... or the lag.
[

Yeah, I think you have to go CQC in this one.

Also Sandbag is 100-0 Sandbag. You can never beat it because his recovery always sends him to the center of the stage and heals all % Damage. You can never beat him! Not even MetaKnight can!

Captain Falcon can though

Don't even get me started on Sandbag... 0_0

 

[Mmac]

The word "sucks" was not found in any of my posts. Just stated that Samus did some things better. That doesn't mean any of Yoshi's game sucks. I've learned the hard way he can pull off some nasty stuff. This is also what I see through my eyes, which isn't always 100% correct.

Superior, Better. Whatever, It's pretty much the same thing, but adding more positive to your own character. But I didn't really agree with what you said though. Recovery, I kinda agree and disagree actually. Long reaching Zair, Bomb Jumping, Good protection from the UpB, and overall floatingness help alot. Yoshi doesn't really have that flexibility, but he makes up for it for being extremely hard to edgeguard.

Air's I Believe Yoshi has the greater upper hand here. Her Zair is good. Very good, however, her A-Airs's get pretty much outranged or Prioritized by all of Yoshi's airs (Except Yoshi's Fair, but he should never use it commonly). If Yoshi gets on her back, in the Air or even on the Ground, She's going to have a very hard time trying to get him off.

Of course footstooling isn't easy to land, neither do I expect anyone to let me land it, but if the opportunity comes up, one needs to be able to recognize it as a move worth using. I mention it with Yoshi, since his UpB doesn't reach as far as, say... [insert character here]? It's something to look at as a possiibility. Even the smallest pieces are necessary to complete a puzzle.

It's just the way you worded it. Plus it's not exactly something you want to tell someone to do. If you tell someone who has no clue on how to fight Yoshi that "Footstooling Yoshi is lethal", He's going to do it (Who can't resist an "Instant Kill"?), and then realize that it's not worth it when he dies a couple times with no success

I thought I swapped to Controller Port 2?

Don't get reference, sorry

Just so I can say this, I have played a decently skilled Yoshi. I assume you are a much better player than him, so I can't give the most accurate advice based on my experiences with just one Yoshi user. Yoshi needs more attention

We do, we really do

If Samus approaches with a couple homing missiles, your shield will make predicting your next move a LOT easier. Afaik, Yoshi's shield only slides when hit by a charge shot or super missile. Side dodging slow moving missiles may get you hit anyways, or at least hit by the missile behind it.

Yeah, But if you are approaching with Homing Missiles, Yoshi can just eat his way through with his Bair and counter-approach you when you are open. Yeah, spotdodging isn't the best option, but I meant spotdodging as a defence in general. Course there are going to be situation where it's better to just Shield or something else, and this is one of them.

My dog could figure out that dtilt don't work on airborne foes (no offense :D). My buddy uses Yoshi's jabs out of shield, but that's really the only move fast enough to be used. It doesn't have that much range, and doesn't have much IASA frames, much like Wolf's jabs. That's why I feel safer to roll against a shielded Yoshi. I usually don't NEED to, it's just nice to know I have the option.

Theres more to do out of a shield then just Jab's though, but it is a good option. Personally, I use Dsmash out of Shield/Spotdodge. There's also Ftilt, Dtilt, DownB (Works surprisingly well). If he could actually DownB out of shield, I would be so happy.

If Yoshi airdodges, you will just double jump and be closer to punish Yoshi as his airdodge ends. If he's recovering with an aerial, then yes, the footstool animation is canceled. The only reason I wouldn't use my aerials is because Yoshi's have more priority - I mean range. Priority doesn't take place in the air. Yoshi also has super armor on his double jump which makes 4 out of Samus' 6 aerials do nothing. Samus' bair is hard enough to land as it is, and her dair goes 50/50 against Yoshi's uair. Attempting a footstool at least gives you the chance to dodge whatever aerial Yoshi is rising with or get closer to where Yoshi's airdodge will end. Of course, I could be wrong because I've only played one Yoshi user.

Well, about Airdodging, Yoshi isn't going to activate it as soon as he Double Jump's, but rather as close to you as possible, to maximize the dodge frames when he is near you. The way you worded it it sounded like he's doing it as soon as possible. Also edgehoging to Bair/Dair can be very effective.

The slow startup is what punishes the airdodge. Yoshi double jumps and airdodges as he is about to reach the ledge. By then, Samus' utilt should land by the time Yoshi touches the ground. Her utilt's duration is pretty long. The only flaw with this is having Yoshi airdodge through you and land behind you. Meh... we could try utilting backwards? Or maybe space it better? I dunno. I landed it for a KO once, and it seemed effective. When I tried this the next couple of times, he would just throw eggs at me

It really depends on where you are located when doing the Utilt, and where Yoshi does the Airdodge. Course you can get creative to make it work. Try launching a homing missile into an early airdodge, then punish him after.

I guess they could be used for edgeguarding afterall :S. Course it only works if he airdodges, Egg's can take them out though.

Name some of those approaches. I need to learn too :/. Oh and any character can punish a missed screw attack. Screw Attack outprioritizes all of your aerials, so NYEEEAAH! >

Bair, Nair, Dair, Dash, Ftilt, Dtilt, EggRoll, DJC EggLay, and Shorthop Eggs. Course only half of these are good . Also I think Dair beats the Screw Attack, but I'm not sure

Alternate between homing missiles and zair to make crawling look stupid, force Yoshi in his shield, and rampage. Yoshi swings his tail up and down while using his bair - a moving hitbox. Timing uair to land while his tail doesn't intercept Samus will allow it to go through. Samus' other aerials won't reach.
I'm pretty sure you'll start to dash grab if you end up getting screw attacked 50 times in a row from touching my shield too much. If Yoshi dash attacks through Samus' side dodge, Yoshi can pull out one of his lightning fast jabs before Samus can retaliate. That, or I blame WiFi lag.

He can avoid the Missile's by just rolling backwards and out of harms way...... maybe. Timing a Uair to intercept a Bair is easier said than done.

Yeah, Dash Grab's just don't work for Yoshi... and it's probably lag, though Yoshi's Jabs are 2 Frame...

Yoshi has a grab release chain grab on like 1/6th of the cast, doesn't he? I don't see Yoshi's dtilt in much action. It seems to have the same effects as ftilt.

It's actually half the roster. However, Yoshi can't do anything to Samus out of a Release, so consider yourself lucky. I think Yoshi can do an Rising Fair on a release off the Ledge, but I haven't tested it yet. Yoshi's Dtilt has Twice the Range, and it has Horizontal Knockback, while Ftilt flicks the person upwards.

I'm a shield camper. When you can't roll with your main for 8 years, you'll turn into one of these too. *cries a little on the inside* Strange how a character MEANT to roll, has the worst roll in the game. Cmon Samus! Pull out that boost ball you got from the Chozo some odd number of years ago!

Actually, I think Yoshi's Roll is worser than Samus's Roll actually O_o

Not on wifi you can't! Sakurai said so! That... or the lag.

Eh..... No , I've done it quite a bit online actually. Yoshi handles Samus's Projectiles really well

Don't even get me started on Sandbag... 0_0

I know! The stupid thing is like the Akuma of Brawl!

 

[Smash_Gigas]

Superior, Better. Whatever, It's pretty much the same thing, but adding more positive to your own character. But I didn't really agree with what you said though. Recovery, I kinda agree and disagree actually. Long reaching Zair, Bomb Jumping, Good protection from the UpB, and overall floatingness help alot. Yoshi doesn't really have that flexibility, but he makes up for it for being extremely hard to edgeguard.

Like you said, looks like they both have their ups and downs off the ledge. Samus can stay in the air a little longer... but doesn't help much when Yoshi's got the greater speed. Yoshi's benefit is being able to recover / approach Samus fairly quickly via air, and Samus benefits by not necessairly having to sweat as much being knocked off stage, save for Yoshi's Fair spike. For anybody that's as Bomb-happy as me, that's pretty dangerous. XD

Air's I Believe Yoshi has the greater upper hand here. Her Zair is good. Very good, however, her A-Airs's get pretty much outranged or Prioritized by all of Yoshi's airs (Except Yoshi's Fair, but he should never use it commonly). If Yoshi gets on her back, in the Air or even on the Ground, She's going to have a very hard time trying to get him off.

As for Zair... I didn't think that worked really well against Yoshi. They just Super Armor it. lol Atleast in the times I tried. But I guess like Dair, better worth trying than leaving it alone? I also didn't know Yoshi's aerials outprioritized Samus's that much, but atleast I now learned that.

It's just the way you worded it. Plus it's not exactly something you want to tell someone to do. If you tell someone who has no clue on how to fight Yoshi that "Footstooling Yoshi is lethal", He's going to do it (Who can't resist an "Instant Kill"?), and then realize that it's not worth it when he dies a couple times with no success!

Yes, you're right. I wasn't taking into consideration that Samus beginners were going to be reading this, and I failed to clarify. I need to keep this in mind for future references. I beg your pardon--sometimes I'm not the best at getting things across to people. My conversational skills can be lacking sometimes.... =/

 

[Mmac]

As for Zair... I didn't think that worked really well against Yoshi. They just Super Armor it. lol Atleast in the times I tried. But I guess like Dair, better worth trying than leaving it alone? I also didn't know Yoshi's aerials outprioritized Samus's that much, but atleast I now learned that.

Zair should be used as an counter approach. Yoshi can DJ through it, but he really doesn't want to because it puts him in a bad spot. It's annoying as hell, but that's pretty much the only thing she has against him. His attacks don't really outprioritize Samus's moves (It's really only true with Dair to Uair), but rather outrange them. Bair and Uair have equal priority compared to her Bair/Fair and Dair, but Yoshi's will always hit first, which is the primary problem.

 

[MrEh]

BOWSER
Rank: 80-20 (Instant Win)

That's a bit high for Samus isn't it? It's not really a guaranteed win against Bowser, even though Samus has a huge advantage. Bowser really isn't given enough credit. I believe that the matchup should be something like 70-30.

An 80-20 matchup essentially means that it's near impossible for the lesser character to win. For example, Yoshi vs Ganondorf. Samus does not have that level of domination over Bowser.

Yes, it's Samus's projectile spam that ultimately defeats Bowser, but Bowser isn't completely defeated by it. He can approach by using Ftilts to punch her missiles, and he can even use his infinite jump to give him some more maneuverability around her projectiles. (Anything that isn't a Zair.)

Bowser's grab release game wasn't mentioned either. Bowser has what is arguably the best grab release in the game. He can do pretty much anything out of a grab release. Jabs, Ftilt, Dtilt, Fire, a Klaw, or even another grab. It may not combo all the time, but it's extremely difficult to read and it can lead to punishable mistakes. And remember, Bowser's playstyle revolves around punishing mistakes.

 

[Crystanium]

ChromePirate had the match-up for Samus and Bowser as 70-30. The people in the thread that I made for the match-up between Samus and Bowser didn't object to it. It's also 70-30 in my Samus guide. I'd stick with 70-30.

 

[MrEh]

ChromePirate had the match-up for Samus and Bowser as 70-30. The people in the thread that I made for the match-up between Samus and Bowser didn't object to it. It's also 70-30 in my Samus guide. I'd stick with 70-30.

The matchup in this thread really wasn't discussed all that well.

There's no way that the matchup is impossible to win for Bowser. It's very difficult, but it's in no way impossible.

 

[Crystanium]

The matchup in this thread really wasn't discussed all that well.

There's no way that the matchup is impossible to win for Bowser. It's very difficult, but it's in no way impossible.

Well, if you want, you can check my Samus guide. All I have right now is information about Bowser's aerial game. It's still work in progress. So yeah, if you want to check that out and leave a comment, that'd be nice, too.

 

[0RLY]

I kind of want to discuss Marth, but I get ***** too much by him to give solid advice. I can only beat crappy Marths. Y'know... those non-crazy japanese smashers that don't space their aerials and dancing blade. Anyways, I always get stage spiked by Marths' crazy aerials when I try to spike, nair, or zair him. Getting close to Marth is the worst thing you could do, and Marth has a very easy time getting close to you with his disjointed sword and speed. I guess that's like a vague "Watch out for". I don't have any "How to win" comments, as I always lose. My main form of damage comes from uair, screw attack, and I guess missiles.

 

[SarahHarp]

and I guess missiles.

You must be playing crappy Marths because I'm pretty sure he can hit through them with an aerial and recover from them quickly which of -course- means her projectiles are completely pointless in this matchup!

 

[Xyro77]

I kind of want to discuss Marth, but I get ***** too much by him to give solid advice. I can only beat crappy Marths. Y'know... those non-crazy japanese smashers that don't space their aerials and dancing blade. Anyways, I always get stage spiked by Marths' crazy aerials when I try to spike, nair, or zair him. Getting close to Marth is the worst thing you could do, and Marth has a very easy time getting close to you with his disjointed sword and speed. I guess that's like a vague "Watch out for". I don't have any "How to win" comments, as I always lose. My main form of damage comes from uair, screw attack, and I guess missiles.

From what i gather from playing Royr(tx best player/marth player) its all about CPing levels and gimping.

Marth

HtW:

Obviously you have to spam, but most of the time it only gets you so far before hes in your face just enough to land a hit but your wont hit him back. I HIGHLY recommend that you rely on CP levels. Personaly, i have never lost to a marth on port town(i even beat azens there......its online though). Once you get them off the stage they MUST go thru the stage with thier UP+B since there are no ledges. This asks for a free fully charge shot= free gimp.

I also recommend PKMN1. This stage has lots of places you can tech to help keep u alive. The ledges are also messed up witch forces marth to UP+B perfectly.

Aside from that, if he doesnt space well....UP+B out of shield. If he likes to sit back...spam. If you can, plz run of the stage with a spike or nair or zair to gimp him. if UP+B only goes up so if you just knock him off his path even SLIGHTLY....hes gimped.

All of this is just tips. this in no way promises you to do AMAZING on marth. This match up is 30-70=marths favor.


WoF:

Dont get caught in his OVER+B, its 4 free hits. His UP+B out of shield is a killer if you are over 110%.

 

[Orichalcum]

The only really advice i can give against marth is to do a really quick OoS upb against his fair. I never got shieldgrab to work. if you get close there are few scenarios, you shield an fair approach, see what i just said. You attacked with an aerial most likely fair or bair, marth is shielding and this is the sign to get away, most likely will result in a (tipper) fsmash or >B.

Mindgame bombs: Predict their playstayle, by either just playing or avoiding. When i do that i often fake attacks and retreat, shad backwards(zair). Marths that are too offensive tend to fair or >B into the bomb (which you just mindgamed).basicly it is for you to hit him with the bomb when he is landing, bomb di away. follow up with dtilt, fsmash, uair. but dont try to link uair into anything else because marths go into panic mode, which means mashing A button. Go away and missile cancel-> zair.

Basicly the whole idea is retreat. Do NOT missile on defensive state (means, you dont got marth into your combo or whatever). Any situation in which samus is not hitting, or punish marth should be considered a defensive state. missiles are destroyed by his fair and he can slip throguh faster halfway across FD before you are able to act. A shad zair can be good against an approaching marth if you predict well. dont fair, on low %. Also i found this once specific scenario in marth matchups: fair, you shield and marth passes you as you do. you are now shielding and marth is landing behind you. the most common move would be a fsmash or >B. either keep on shielding (never do this when marth>B) or roll/shad away. do not try to fsmash, the range will make you miss and get hit.

Gimping:
over stage try to zair
below stage do NOT try to dair if marth is close to the stage. In that case you can run of the stage and drop a bomb. land on the stage again, run out and bair. Or wait. let him grab the edge.
Now there are some ways you can prevent marth from coming back depending on how fast you are and how good you know your enemies behaviour.

The postion i place myself is a bit further from edge than the d-tilt range. (marths about the same with his fsmash)

jump -> uair with intention to push him to the outside
attack -> grab or dash attack
roll -> reverse running grab thing
get up -> move slightly towards the stage and dtilt
dont fall for lures, his up b is killing you even at low % when you bump off at the stage

The other side. you are on the edge

Jump.

20% win, you mostly get either naired -> death when marth is at perfect spacing 90ish+ %. maybe fast enough to air dodge, not recommended
If marth is close you get uaired

roll -> fsmash /grab

get up -> grab / dash attack -> edge

attack -> shieldgrab (close) fair fsmash

how to:

no matter how good you i am or how good my enemy was i allways had a hard time getting on stage, against a marth.

Either

1. fool around with upb regrabbing (dont do this when marth is close to the edge, edgehogged) and attempt to lure in order to get up by roll.

2. homing missile which he will shield and most likely try to approach -> roll jump (dont do if marth is close obviously)

3. air dodge zair (not recommended if the opponent is allready camping)

4 . wait: i found this the most effective against camping marths while hanging on the edge. Just wait or shoot homing missiles. marth may come close in an attempt to hit you with fsmash. it does hit when your haning. and i often died to it, roll with invincibility frames and shield asap -> escape

fair might be possible against close up marths which are dumb thats why im not mentioning it. fair is punished almost anyways

Note: you can regain invinc frames by tapping off from edge pressing z (grapple) and immediately pressing a to swing to the edge. i dunno

sry about the grammer im lazy as **** atm, hope u get it though

 

[ChronoPenguin]

just sayin my input

Samus vs yoshi is neutral, since Yoshi can be hard to gimp, and Samus can out camp, but Samus camping game is easy to go through though and back airs go through missles.

Yoshi wins in the air as far as memory services and I believe Samus on the ground with her tilts.

So shouldn't it be neutral? or something like that?
Both Sides seem to think it's good for them which leads me to think that both sides can find something favourable...so it's neutral.

 

[0RLY]

Yeah, the info mmac provided seems to make me believe the match up is pretty neutral.

Against Marth, I find my missiles landing because Marth can't fair through two missiles at a time. I usually get missiles close enough to each other so that they can't be cut through with a single or double fair.

I know that Marths can sh dancing blade instead of fair, which can go through your shield when Marth performs the downward variation. Marth can also space his fairs, SH fair, retreat out of screw attack range. If you sit in your shield for too long, Marth can nair through it. This makes Samus' shield almost useless. Marth puts a lot of pressure on me when I play against him. I dunno, maybe my friends are too pro.

Hitting Marth's shield with a dair, bair, or nair means you are grabbed. Samus' slow falling speed guarantees that grab. A fair or uair may or may not get you grabbed, depending on Marth's timing. Screw Attacking immediately afterwards is probably the safest bet, even if Marth is still shielding, he's probably still attempting a grab. If he attempts anything else, Screw Attack should go through. Marth can run under zair, which is very annoying.

If you're in CQC with Marth, somebody is going to get whooped. That somebody is very likely to be you.

 

[Mmac]

However, I think Yoshi has the upper hand. Simplified, here's the basic rundown on this matchup:

Ground to Ground: Samus > Yoshi (Yeah, Yoshi doesn't handle ground to ground well. There's only a few matchups where he does, and this isn't one of them)

Air to Air: Yoshi > Samus (Zair is annoying, but Yoshi destroys Samus in CQC Air)

Air to Ground/Ground to Air: Yoshi > Samus (They have Equal Aerial Approaches (Damm you Zair!), but Yoshi handles Aerial Approaches alot better)

Projectile Game: Yoshi > Samus (Samus's Missiles and Charge Shot gets swatted out of the sky, but the same said projectiles could be used to counter spam.... Hmmm.....)

Edgeguarding: Yoshi=Samus (Not to sure about this. They seem to have equal chance of successful edgeguarding)

Recovery: Yoshi < Samus (Only by alittle bit. Also Yoshi doesn't get completely screwed when spiked....)

Defence: Yoshi = Samus (OOS Screw Attack, Zair, and Tilts vs. Pivot Grabs, Airs, and Usmash.... They both work well....)

Offence: Yoshi > Samus (I think Yoshi does better Offencive wise. All Samus really has is Chip Damage with Zair. She has to open up an approach for everything else)

Kill Power: Yoshi = Samus (This was a tough one to chose... But I think both opponents will live at High %'s if they're careful)

I think Yoshi just has alot more options and he can deal with her alot better than she can do to him. At least thats how I feel....

 

[0RLY]

I know how you feel too. Learning to use a character that shouldn't even shield. Heck, it even makes me feel bad for using a character who just can't roll.

 

[MrEh]

So I assume that reconsidering the Bowser matchup is out of the question? XD

 

[Crystanium]

Projectile Game: Yoshi > Samus (Samus's Missiles and Charge Shot gets swatted out of the sky, but the same said projectiles could be used to counter spam.... Hmmm.....)

I disagree with you on that. Please explain what you mean by Samus' Charge Shot and Homing/Super Missiles get "swatted out of the sky." I can understand that the Homing Missile and Super Missile can get hit and thus rendered useless. But you'd have to ask yourself how often you would be able to keep up with doing that. As for the Charge Shot, I don't know what you mean here. What swats a fully charged Charge Shot out of the sky? If by "swat," you mean it hit's Yoshi while he is using his second jump, and he doesn't get knocked back, then sure.

The funny thing is that I have this Super Smash Bros. Brawl guide by Prima, and they rank Yoshi's projectile as 6, while Samus is 8. In other words, Samus is two points ahead of Yoshi in projectile, and this is determined by the usefulness of their projectile(s). Yoshi has one projectile, and it isn't all that great, because it's not large enough, it is angled, and it lacks usefulness in mid-range. Sure, Yoshi can angle the projectile to determine how far or close it will go, but it's a shame it's nothing like the one in Yoshi's Island.

 

[Mmac]

I disagree with you on that. Please explain what you mean by Samus' Charge Shot and Homing/Super Missiles get "swatted out of the sky." I can understand that the Homing Missile and Super Missile can get hit and thus rendered useless. But you'd have to ask yourself how often you would be able to keep up with doing that. As for the Charge Shot, I don't know what you mean here. What swats a fully charged Charge Shot out of the sky? If by "swat," you mean it hit's Yoshi while he is using his second jump, and he doesn't get knocked back, then sure.

Bair cancels it out, Dair cancels it out, even Nair cancels it out. Plus a majority of his smashes and tilts cancel it out also, though you might as well just Dodge/Shield in that case.

And I won't trust the Prima Guide. They have MetaKnight as Low Tier!

 

[Crystanium]

Bair cancels it out, Dair cancels it out, even Nair cancels it out. Plus a majority of his smashes and tilts cancel it out also, though you might as well just Dodge/Shield in that case.

Cancels what out? Samus' fully charged Charge Shots?

And I won't trust the Prima Guide. They have MetaKnight as Low Tier!

Here's the ironic part, Mmac:

For fighting games, many strategies evolve over months of play at the highest level of competition. The strategies listed here will get you started on your way to the top, but for the most up-to-date tournament-level strategies, browse the Smash World Forums (www.smashboards.com).

Face it, Mmac, Yoshi's projectile game isn't as great as Samus'. Samus can pull in a number of projectiles, more than what Yoshi could ever wish for. Yoshi's projectile game compared to Samus' is a joke. If you want to talk about what can stop projectiles, that's one thing. If you want to talk about the usefulness of the projectiles, that's another.

 

[Mmac]

Cancels what out? Samus' fully charged Charge Shots?

Yes. Fully Charge Shots gets stopped cold by them.

Face it, Mmac, Yoshi's projectile game isn't as great as Samus'. Samus can pull in a number of projectiles, more than what Yoshi could ever wish for. Yoshi's projectile game compared to Samus' is a joke. If you want to talk about what can stop projectiles, that's one thing. If you want to talk about the usefulness of the projectiles, that's another.

Ok, I never claimed that Yoshi's Projectile > Samus's Projectile in GENERAL, but rather in this matchup. Yes, Samus's Projectiles are good, but they get stopped by pretty much Yoshi's Entire Moveset, which severely limits their effectiveness in this matchup.

I forgot to mention that Eggs are also good for harassing Samus when she's Charging her Charge Shot.

 

[kongfucius]

Marth is not as cheap as in melee, being that his range was nerfed and auto-sweetspot hinders his cheesy edgeguarding. However, still one of the most difficult matchups.

Do not stay in close range; for if he gets his momentum going you will have no chance of escape from dancing blades and tilts. His air game is dangerous from all directions except for below so u-airs work well to rack up damage on platformed stages. He cannot comboe you semi-infinitely with f-airs but it can send you horizontal if tippered, so use caution when off stage, as marths will f-air you and then U-b for the edgehog.

Stay in mid-ranges and spam z-airs while retreating with shorthops. Missiles should be used only in long range. Punish his aerial approaches with z-air and his ground approaches with f-tilt or a grab(well-timed) if you wiff the z-air or he air dodges.

F-air from the ledge tends to be dangerous due to his F-smash, which will usually tip you through the spurts of flame. Leaving you extremely pissed off not to mention dead. Basically, save your KO moves and space yourself with the best spacing tool in the game (you should know what that is). Bombs and missiles should only be used when retreating or as mindgames.

Spacing, just like in melee, will be the best thing to utilize in this matchup.

But be of good cheer,

for losing to a marth will spare you the calamity of facing a metaknight.

 

[MrEh]

Yes, Samus's Projectiles are good, but they get stopped by pretty much Yoshi's Entire Moveset, which severely limits their effectiveness in this matchup.

It's also fun to mention that projectiles really don't help much against a dinosaur that jump like 100 feet.

Projectiles are nothing compared to Yoshi's almighty eggs and his invincible head.

This thread will have CORRECT information and REASONING behind EACH and EVERY match-up.

I think this is pretty funny. So no one wants to re-discuss the Bowser matchup eh? Seriously, it's pretty messed up.

 

[Crystanium]

Yes. Fully Charge Shots gets stopped cold by them.

Oh, really? I asked my brother to test this out with me. I was Yoshi, and my brother was Samus. I used n-air against Samus' fully charged Charge Shot. Guess what happens? Yoshi takes 25% damage. I tried this on 1/2 speed as well, which is slow enough for Yoshi to perform n-air while Samus' fully charged Charge Shot is coming his way. Now, I'm going to call BS on this. I tried n-air and b-air. D-air would be pointless, since Samus doesn't fire her Charge Shot upwards. So, either provide a video of yourself stopping Samus' fully charged Charge Shots to prove this, or admit that Yoshi can't do squat against a fully charged Charge Shot.

You might tell me, "You're not doing it right," and if you are going to do that, then show me a video. You also claim that a majority of Yoshi's tilts and smashes can stop Samus' fully charged Charge Shot cold. Guess what? I tried an f-smash, and Yoshi took 25% damage. I've been able to stop uncharged Charge Shots with Yoshi's n-air, but that was only twice. The other tests resulted in 3% damage against Yoshi. If Yoshi can stop Samus' fully charged Charge Shots, then the one playing as Yoshi must stop these with precision. (It'd be better if the Yoshi player air-dodged, spot-dodged, or shielded.) Otherwise, Yoshi takes damage. I tested them with my brother. Don't tell me otherwise, unless you show yourself "swatting" these fully charged Charge Shots "out of the sky."

Ok, I never claimed that Yoshi's Projectile > Samus's Projectile in GENERAL, but rather in this matchup. Yes, Samus's Projectiles are good, but they get stopped by pretty much Yoshi's Entire Moveset, which severely limits their effectiveness in this matchup.

Prove it. Show me videos of you stopping Samus' fully charged Charge Shots. Show me also that if it is possible, that you're capable of stopping them every time. I don't want edits.

I forgot to mention that Eggs are also good for harassing Samus when she's Charging her Charge Shot.

You also forgot that Samus can cancel her Charge Shot by shielding, rolling, or spot-dodging. This means that she can take her time charging up her Charge Shot.

 

[MrEh]

Guess what? I tried an f-smash, and Yoshi took 25% damage.

Have you tried using Yoshi's head?

By that, I mean his Usmash.

 

[Mmac]

Oh, really? I asked my brother to test this out with me. I was Yoshi, and my brother was Samus. I used n-air against Samus' fully charged Charge Shot. Guess what happens? Yoshi takes 25% damage. I tried this on 1/2 speed as well, which is slow enough for Yoshi to perform n-air while Samus' fully charged Charge Shot is coming his way. Now, I'm going to call BS on this. I tried n-air and b-air. D-air would be pointless, since Samus doesn't fire her Charge Shot upwards. So, either provide a video of yourself stopping Samus' fully charged Charge Shots to prove this, or admit that Yoshi can't do squat against a fully charged Charge Shot.

Video? -_- I hate doing videos! It takes me so long to set up my recorder.... Anyways I am very inclined to say "You're not doing it right". Nair only stops it on the initial frame where it has the most priority. I'm going to assume that you got Bair working because you haven't said anything about that... And Dair is an approach, and can be shorthopped, so it can be more in the Charged Shot's range than you might think...

You might tell me, "You're not doing it right," and if you are going to do that, then show me a video. You also claim that a majority of Yoshi's tilts and smashes can stop Samus' fully charged Charge Shot cold. Guess what? I tried an f-smash, and Yoshi took 25% damage. I've been able to stop uncharged Charge Shots with Yoshi's n-air, but that was only twice. The other tests resulted in 3% damage against Yoshi. If Yoshi can stop Samus' fully charged Charge Shots, then the one playing as Yoshi must stop these with precision. (It'd be better if the Yoshi player air-dodged, spot-dodged, or shielded.) Otherwise, Yoshi takes damage. I tested them with my brother. Don't tell me otherwise, unless you show yourself "swatting" these fully charged Charge Shots "out of the sky."

Where did the 3% Damage come from? Anyways, Fsmash, Like Usmash, has invincibility frames in his head. I don't know when they activate though, probably at the peak of his Attack I assume, but it does stop it. And what about Bair? That's his primary approach. I haven't heard from you about that...

Prove it. Show me videos of you stopping Samus' fully charged Charge Shots. Show me also that if it is possible, that you're capable of stopping them every time. I don't want edits.

-_- Fine...

You also forgot that Samus can cancel her Charge Shot by shielding, rolling, or spot-dodging. This means that she can take her time charging up her Charge Shot.

Isn't... that pretty much the entire point of "Harassing"?

 

[Crystanium]

Video? -_- I hate doing videos! It takes me so long to set up my recorder.... Anyways I am very inclined to say "You're not doing it right". Nair only stops it on the initial frame where it has the most priority. I'm going to assume that you got Bair working because you haven't said anything about that... And Dair is an approach, and can be shorthopped, so it can be more in the Charged Shot's range than you might think...

I tried it with b-air as well, and that didn't work. If it needs to be the initial frame, then what use is there to even attempt using n-air or b-air? By the way, whenever you get around to getting that video it, I'd actually like to see you in a battle, because there is a difference between brawling against someone and testing out something with someone.

Where did the 3% Damage come from?

An uncharged Charge Shot does 3% damage.

Anyways, Fsmash, Like Usmash, has invincibility frames in his head. I don't know when they activate though, probably at the peak of his Attack I assume, but it does stop it. And what about Bair? That's his primary approach. I haven't heard from you about that...

I tried b-air as well, and while Yoshi is wagging his tail, he gets hit. If by initial frame you mean the first frame, then what are the odds of actually getting n-air or b-air in to stop a fully charged Charge Shot?

Isn't... that pretty much the entire point of "Harassing"?

That might be, but still, Samus can fire her Charge Shot at whatever given time, and it doesn't have to be fully charged. It can be partially charged.

 

[Serris]

Sandbag got buffed majorly in Brawl, guys. I'm not sure if Samus can even beat him. I mean, he's so good, he can't even get grabbed.

 

[Greenstreet]

also i'm not sure if ur homing missiles even lock on to him. i know sonics homing attack wont

 

[n00b]

When is this matchup changing?

Marth: 55-45 Samus's favor (according to a former Marth main that I constantly spar with)

How to win:
Spacing is key here.. Marth has an incredibly fast, effective, safe, aggressive rushdown game. Samus needs to dash away and punish, punish out of shield, and bait predictable, laggy moves like fsmashes. Uncharged shots stun enough for ftilts to keep your space. You basically want to keep marth at ftilt/grab's length away most of the time, until you can get him off the edge. If the Marth gets too close for comfort and tries to do a full swords dance, try to shield. If he's not smart and continues to mindlessly input the combo and poke through shield with a down/green hit for the fourth part of the combo, you can wait and get a free shield grab on him. For breathing room, dtilt and dsmash are good so that you can pop Marth up above you in the air. His dair isn't too great, so if you can juggle him with uairs or get him stuck on platforms above you on stages like Battlefield or Yoshi's island, he'll have a hard time. Then get him off the edge!
Gimping him is really easy because of his limited recovery. If you can't hug the ledge fast enough to tether-gimp, you can do a bomb drop gimp and hope it hits him on his way up. If the Marth is too aggressive and comes after you off stage, dodge until you're pretty far under the stage. If the Marth will follow you, he'll be forced to sooner or later up B back to the ledge. If you can bait this you can lead an uncharged shot to interrupt his up B, or you can tether to hog the ledge.

TLDR Version: space away with ftilts, up B out of shield if he doesn't space fairs, use grabs to get him off the edge, gimp with tether hog, uncharged shot or bomb drops. If you can, get him above you in the air.. Uair juggles him well

Watch out for:
Fair juggles, tippers when you mess up your spacing, grabs when you camp shield too much, swords dance pressure.. Also, I notice it's hard to recover against a Marth if you recover too high. Getting up from the ledge can be hard too, because Marth can up b OOS or shield grab your fair if you don't space it right, he can short hop over any ledgehop zairs and punish you with his quick aerials, and he can walk to space a tipper from most of your ledgehop recoveries. His fair also eats through missiles and such. Dsmash also hurts if your shield is low from camping in it as well. His uair juggles Samus like crazy because her dair is too slow, so make sure a marth is never below you like that. Marth punishes mistakes and lag, and lots of Samus's moves leave her open to them.

(10:50:03 PM) Me: how can samus beat marth
(10:50:11 PM) Me: this week is samus v marth discussion
(10:50:42 PM) Me: zair, grabs, tether gimp, and playing defensively right?
(11:10:50 PM) Adel: zair
(11:11:03 PM) Adel: tether gimp
(11:11:13 PM) Adel: u can just throw marth off the edge
(11:11:16 PM) Adel: and edgegaurd right
(11:11:19 PM) Adel: and get low % kills
(11:11:25 PM) Me: yea
(11:11:26 PM) Me: i think grabs
(11:11:31 PM) Me: are the best against marth
(11:11:37 PM) Me: pivot grab when he whiffs fair is good
(11:11:37 PM) Adel: uair
(11:11:43 PM) Adel: marth cant really stop
(11:11:45 PM) Me: yea, he sucks when getting juggld
(11:11:51 PM) Adel: yeah
(11:11:57 PM) Adel: id say samus has the advantage
(11:12:51 PM) Me: id say its 50-50

Sandbag:
0-100. Impossible matchup.
Isai sandbags, and Isai > you. Sandbag has infinite stocks and doesn't afraid of anything.

 

[Z1GMA]

*Giving new life to thread*