delete

[Xyro77]

nvm.....i got a better thread

 

[Xyro77]

Saved for future post.

 

[Dabuz]

bowser

rank:easy

how to win: due to his large size and low jump height and speed he is easily spammable and can be forced to approach which he has a time with against projectile users, just dont try to go close range because he will win in that department so fd is easily the best stage, if you are forced to a close range tussle on a level like bf try to needle him with things like fair and zair until hes at the 150s where you can try to knock him off and play with him once hes off the edge, just dont try to spike him unless its quick because his upair is ownage, also, if he uses upb for approaching remember its very punishable if missed and leave good aerial openings

watch out for: staying above him for long because his upsmash and upair are evil, bowser side, dsmash and forward smash and short hopped fire breaths(can be nasty at low %s)


i think this is good

 

[0RLY]

Bowser: Easy

HtW:
-- Bowser is one of the easier character to combo due to his size and slowness. His aerial attack options are very limited and will allow you to chain attacks together much more easily than any other character. Bowser has a very heavy reliance on his giant shield in order to protect himself. This makes it that much easier to land a grab when they expect you to attack. Bowser is heavy and hard to KO, but his recovery travels mostly horizontally, which makes hogging the ledge with only your tether rather easy. Zair is invaluable in the match as it will keep Bowser from destroying your missiles with ftilt. Bowser's large size also makes it easier to land a charge shot on him. Samus is on the heavy side also, which will force Bowser to work extra hard to KO you.

Wo4:
-- Stay out of Bowser's ftilt range, it is one of the most effective spacing attacks in the game. If you are out of ftilt range, you are generally safe from the rest of Bowser's moves. DI up and away from Bowser's dthrow to prevent yourself from being hit by the impending fair, ftilt, flying slam, or fire breath. Bowser's flying slam does a whopping 19% and should be avoided as much as possible. Bowsers tend to use this out of their shield when given the chance, so don't give them that chance. Bowsers can also use this move in place of an aerial, luckily Bowser is also slow in the air so you can intercept him with your Screw Attack. In general, don't touch Bowser's shield, it always puts him in an advantageous position.
-- DI away from his fire breath if you get hit. It's not worth it to get behind him because you'll take 40% damage in the process. Aerial approaches on a grounded Bowser may not always work out. If your attack is predicted, Bowser can land a very high priority, and powerful dsmash. More often than not, you may also hit his shield which can result in getting hit by Bowser's fortress. Bowser's main combos come from his jab switch ups. Bowser starts a rock, paper, scissors game with his jab. If you side step, you risk getting dtilted, but you can avoid the grab/flying slam and ftilt. If you shield, you risk getting hit by the grab/flying slam, but you can avoid the dtilt and ftilt. If you DI away, you risk getting hit by the ftilt, but you can avoid the grab/flying slam and dtilt.

TL;DR
-- Just keep out of his range, and grab when you think he will shield. Combos and zair are very effective.

 

[Smash_Gigas]

Ganondorf: Easy

Victory: Ganon's easy due to his lack of projectiles and speed. As a former Ganondorf mainer, I can say that spammed projectiles are a massive pain. Defensive Ganondorfs can be easily pressured into doing things they'd rather not do by unleashing Missiles on him. As for offensive Ganondorfs, well... punish his incredible amount of lag. It's also easy to keep a Charged Beam because how long it takes for him to reach you. Use whatever he doesn't have. Projectiles, Combos, and Recovery.

Watch Out! Ganon can pack some serious damage in only a few hits, so don't go in too blind with fury. His Uair can be a threat to Samus, so try not to stay above him for too long. You can keep him out of reach via Morph Ball Bombs. Ganondorf's Side+B (Choke hold or whatever) you should also be carefull of. There are a few characters Ganon can get a free Neutral A off after that attack, and Samus is one of them. Maybe even his Sparta Kick, but I'm not sure.

 

[Rohins]

Bowser: Easy

How to Win:
He is large, so he is one of the few characters you can abuse smash missile cancels vs. Use this to weaken his shield allowing you to shield stab with zair. This forces him to either dodge or angle his shield to avoid being hit with zair. If he starts to use fire to beat your projectiles, you can always zair through fire and hit him.

Watch out For:
Side B: Don't be dumb and let him suicide you. If you're playing on a level with platforms, be sure to DI sideways if he gets side B on you as you land, so he doesn't get low % vertical kills.

Up B: Don't hit his shield with aerials, he can upB through anything. Example, if Bowser is on a platform and you uair his shield he can upB before your move finishes.

read 0Rly's for more in depth analysis

---

Ganon: Easy

How to Win:
Abuse how slow Ganon is and keep him occupied with projectiles. Punish his reactions with zair and ftilt and maintain a large amount of space between you. Ganon is easy to spike and you have a guaranteed edge hog vs him. just hold the edge and as he starts to up B let go and tether to regain invulnerability.

Watch out For:
Side B: If you get caught in this don't react predictably. He can get a jab in, but most Ganons try to keep you locked in this position by punishing with another side B. Don't let him trade stock with you off the level. He can also suicide you if you stand too close to the edge. He can do this both while recovering off level or from a ledge hop.

Auto Cancels: Ganon can auto cancel all of his aerials except fair. His jab comes out very fast, so if you intend to punish Ganon after throwing out an aerial make sure you know when he's in lag and when he's not.

Recovering: Look out for reverse uairs and dairs. A well timed dair goes through your upB, so don't recover too low vs Ganon is he is standing by the edge. Reverse uairs stuff grapple recovery.

Edge Guarding: Ganon's uair comes out pretty fast and can knock you away (or wall spike you) if you're being too cocky about dairs.

 

[n00b]

Boozer

Rank: Easy

How to win: Space and punish.. Rinse and repeat. Bowser's weight and size and lack of any quick combo breakers (other than maybe midair up B or something) lets Samus really put the pressure on given the right setup. It should be pretty clear at this point how to defeat him generally, so I'll give fatty-specific tips that I know.
I found out that sh smash missile cancel -> hyphen/dash usmash puts lots of pressure on fatties, and if their shield is small enough from camping in shield (which bowser likes to do sometimes if it looks like you're gonna approach due to his good up b oos and grab release stuff, kinda like samus) the super missile will poke and knock bowser high enough into the usmash, doing about 30%
Rohins told me that in a short hop you can do uair->fair->cancel->upb on low-percentage fatties.

Watch out for: ftilt, up b, autocancel fair -> whatever (usually retreating up b), grab release to dtilt/ftilt, side b boozercide, down b.

Stage choice: I'd go with some place like Battlefield because the platforms help you combo simply out of missed techs and protect you from any desperate down Bs.

EDIT: On a random note, once you get bowser in your grab, if you mash on A the attacks won't register for some reason. Time your grab attacks at a steady, even pace to ensure maximum damage.

 

[Xyro77]

This is amazing. thank you guys for your quick input. I may not make this last a full week. Bowser and Ganon are extremly easy to deal with so all we need is like 2 days for the trashy chars and a week for the harder match ups.

Heres my 2 cents even though it will mimic most everybody else.


GANON

Rank: Easy

How to win: I have lots of exp playing against a ganon so.....Since ganon is slow, spamming Z-air and Lock on missles is common sense. ALL of ganons air move share the same horrid speed so they are easy to see coming and thus easy to punish(if he doesnt space=UP+B OoS or smash out of shield). There should be NO reason to lose in this match-up. His speed and lag-filled attacks are his down fall. Take advantage of this.

Watch out for: His OVER+B= this attack comes out fast and can suicide you even if you are slightly near the ledge. He can also tech chase with this(if hes skilled). DOWN+B comes out fast too and can KO out of no where. Be prepared for this while you short hop for Z-airs or Lock-on missles.


I will not comment on bowser due to the fact this match-up is IMPOSSIBLE for bowser. I feel there is no way a TRULY good samus can lose to a bowser.

 

[0RLY]

Battlefield is Samus best neutral stage and should be chosen whenever you don't have a solid counter pick.

Ganon: Easy (I had to play a little bit of Brawl to get a good idea for the match up... Otherwise, I would've included this with my post on Bowser)

HtW:
-- Ganon is slow in all respects. It's ridiculously easy to space against him. Just use a lot of projectiles (which Ganon hates with a passion) and zair. Up close, Ganon gets some options, so you want to avoid that. The range you should be staying at is: outside of T-storm range. If Ganon ever gets too close, his murder choke can get through your shield and his other attacks can get through your attacks. Ganon isn't a wall or priority, but compared to Samus, he is. Usually when you're in range for one of your close range attacks, Ganon is either lagging from his previous move, or ready to sparta kick or jab you. What you can do here is retreat or side step, as his jab has more lag than your sidestep (ouch). You can then punish his extended foot, arm, or whatever. Screw Attack as you normally would, Ganon's body parts tend to stay extended even after the hitbox disappears. Ganon is slow in the air, but his attacks are extremely punishing. You'll have to know what Ganon's options are before you close in for an attack. Luckily, this job is easy with Ganon's vulnerability to projectiles.
-- Ganon's recovery is crap. Yes, this needs to be mentioned. His Murder Dive has next to ZERO HITSTUN! If you KNOW Ganon won't try to Ganoncide (it would result in him losing, but you want to keep owning) go in for the gimp. Dairs, nairs, bairs, zairs, missiles all ruin Ganon's recovery. After you get Murder Dive'd, just use nair asap and DI into Ganon. Or you can DJ asap and try to spike again.

Wo4:
-- Ganon is all about power. Just knowing that his two hit combos can land 40% makes it difficult to approach him with a straight face. Auto canceled dair is fatal at low percents. I've been combo'd up to 58% just from that one hit. After that, Ganon still has brilliant tech chasing with his Murder Choke. Make sure you side step often against Ganon, shielding and rolling are very dangerous. Yes, it's a sad day when the slowest character in the game can punish Samus' roll. Ganon's nair comes out faster than all of his aerials, so watch out for that. Otherwise, Ganon is very predictable with when he will use dair/uair/murder kick. As long as you keep your space, Ganon can't do anything surprising to you.

TL;DR
-- Projectiles+punishing his lag=sad day for Ganon.

 

[ADHD]

Okay, I'll change my listings to whats listed here. Thats what I wanted people to do instead of *****ing about incorrect info, I wanted them to reason and I would change it.

Here is what bowser players determined about bowser vs samus

70-30 in samus' favor--easy

While Bowser is very heavy and Samus lacks good killing ability, Samus still has some awesome advantages against Bowser. Ultimately, she outranges Bowser in nearly every way imaginable. She can shoot both types of Missiles at Bowser to wear him down and force him to go on the offensive. Plus, her Zair is absolutely sexy. Her Zair stops nearly every approach that Bowser has due to it's long range. Plus, Bowser's huge size makes it very easy to hit. Since Bowser really has no way to deal with Samus's campy playstyle, she has a clear advantage.

 

[Xyro77]

Chrome, i recommend you cancel your thread and lets join forces. If you can provide numbers that would be nice. I hate numbers/math with a passion so i dont include them in my stuff but if you are willing to, ill add them on the front page.

Oh and to all who help make this thread what it is.....please go into detail when talking about the matchups(which you guys are, thank you). This guide is to help Previous/present and future samus players. Lets make this right!


AGain, thanks guys!

 

[darkspatan117]

HtW:
-- Ganon is slow in all respects. It's ridiculously easy to space against him. Just use a lot of projectiles (which Ganon hates with a passion) and zair. Up close, Ganon gets some options, so you want to avoid that. The range you should be staying at is: outside of T-storm range. If Ganon ever gets too close, his murder choke can get through your shield and his other attacks can get through your attacks. Ganon isn't a wall or priority, but compared to Samus, he is. Usually when you're in range for one of your close range attacks, Ganon is either lagging from his previous move, or ready to sparta kick or jab you. What you can do here is retreat or side step, as his jab has more lag than your sidestep (ouch). You can then punish his extended foot, arm, or whatever. Screw Attack as you normally would, Ganon's body parts tend to stay extended even after the hitbox disappears. Ganon is slow in the air, but his attacks are extremely punishing. You'll have to know what Ganon's options are before you close in for an attack. Luckily, this job is easy with Ganon's vulnerability

Many player confuse that ganon has only slow attack this is quite false he quick for a heavyweight he faster than say Ike he has a slow running speed but his jab, uair,dair(l-canceled)bair,nair, are all fast. His usmash has ISAI frame so he can cancel it jab to punish spot dogger, Ftilt,Utilt and forward b are not so slow so stop saying he slow and watch whose fast are is jab and bair

 

[ADHD]

Chrome, i recommend you cancel your thread and lets join forces. If you can provide numbers that would be nice. I hate numbers/math with a passion so i dont include them in my stuff but if you are willing to, ill add them on the front page.

Oh and to all who help make this thread what it is.....please go into detail when talking about the matchups(which you guys are, thank you). This guide is to help Previous/present and future samus players. Lets make this right!


AGain, thanks guys!

W/e ill let it die and help this

I think ganon might be the same/ harder than bowser; does anyone know if ganon's down b kick goes through missles, or just stops when it hits one? What about the charge shot, does it stop the kick in place?

The down b makes spamming ganon a little bit more harder than bowser but the zair > ganon

 

[Xyro77]

W/e ill let it die and help this

I think ganon might be the same/ harder than bowser; does anyone know if ganon's down b kick goes through missles, or just stops when it hits one? What about the charge shot, does it stop the kick in place?

The down b makes spamming ganon a little bit more harder than bowser but the zair > ganon

Ganon is harder than bowser but not hard enough to consider it even.

 

[Crystanium]

Nice thing going on here, Xyro77. Do you think it would be better to go in alphabetical order, though? That's what I am doing by going to each Character Chat to see what those people have to say about their experience playing against Samus. Of course, this is quite different, since it is asking how Samus mains deal with this character or that character. It can be found in my Samus guide. The first one is Bowser, and there is a link to the Bowser Character Chat. So, yeah. I'll put my input in later.

Oh, and from the Bowser Character Chat, it doesn't look like anyone has objected to it being in Samus' favor, that is, 70-30.

 

[Xyro77]

I will be skipping around a bit on the characters. Since im doing 2 at a time we will go thru it fast. This thread needs to be stickied. I will add 2 more characters tomorrow.

 

[Crystanium]

I will be skipping around a bit on the characters. Since im doing 2 at a time we will go thru it fast. This thread needs to be stickied. I will add 2 more characters tomorrow.

This isn't a match-up thread, is it, Xyro77? In the Ness Character Chat, they have one, but they would go through each character within the twenty-four hour period. However, I went and told them that it would be better if they extended it to a week. If you're making up a match-up thread, I think it would be best to do the same.

 

[Xyro77]

We do not need a week on BOWSER and ganon. However, when i move on to pit or meta....ect i will take a week

BUT! if you gotta have a week......ill leave it at a week.

 

[Hylian]

Awesome thread!

The only qualm I have is that I would rather see numbers like 50-50(Even)

Here TGM, I will take your rankings and assign number values to them.

I will probably add a few ranks:

80-20 (Instant Win)
70-30(Very Easy)
60-40 or 65-35(Easy)
50-50 or 45-55(Even)
40-60 or 35-65(Hard)
30-70(Very Hard)
20-80(Impossibile)

There. Samus would be the first number, her opponent the second.

Hope that helps TGM.

 

[tha_carter]

Good thread.
But, I think you should start off with the characters that give her the most issues.

DDD, Falco, OLIMARx10, Meta Knight...

 

[Gum]

Good thread.
But, I think you should start off with the characters that give her the most issues.

DDD, Falco, OLIMARx10, Meta Knight...

Falco?? Sike

 

[0RLY]

Many player confuse that ganon has only slow attack this is quite false he quick for a heavyweight he faster than say Ike he has a slow running speed but his jab, uair,dair(l-canceled)bair,nair, are all fast. His usmash has [IASA] frame so he can cancel it jab to punish spot dogger, Ftilt,Utilt and forward b are not so slow so stop saying he slow and watch whose fast are is jab and bair

Because of Ganon's slow moving speed, his attacks seem slower and more predictable. It's not the specific start-up of the move that's slow. It's his slow movements that make them more predictable and the ending lag that follows. I mentioned how fast his nair was. Somebody else mentioned how fast his uair was, so I felt it was unnecessary to say it twice. I warned people about AC dairs. Bair has crappy range, so it should be easy to see Ganon rar before he uses it. Murder Choke only seems fast if you're trying to shield. Utilt is by no means fast... I think you meant usmash. IMO, usmash is slow and lacks range. *Cough* switch this with Snake's utilt *cough*

 

[Xyro77]

Awesome thread!

The only qualm I have is that I would rather see numbers like 50-50(Even)

Here TGM, I will take your rankings and assign number values to them.

I will probably add a few ranks:

80-20 (Instant Win)
70-30(Very Easy)
60-40 or 65-35(Easy)
50-50 or 45-55(Even)
40-60 or 35-65(Hard)
30-70(Very Hard)
20-80(Impossibile)

There. Samus would be the first number, her opponent the second.

Hope that helps TGM.

Ok ill update the front page. THANK YOU!

To everybody else: plz go change your rank on bowser and ganon of EASY to Instant Win, please. Monday i pick another set of characters. A tad bit harder this time.

 

[Dabuz]

well hees the olimar guide:

rank: 20/80(impossible)

how to win: you cant normally, he cancels all projectiles,out camps you, owns you on ground and can cancel out your aerial sdault, only feasible to win against super noobs, just switch to zss

what to watch out for: your character choice, if you choose samus you will lose so you must be zss, otherwise watch out for all his pikmin based attacks

i decided to sum up olimar right now for everyones convenience against this godly hard ******** ******

 

[Dobs1007]

Good stuff Xyro nice guide your putting together here. I agree with what has been said with Ganon and Bowser being easy matchups just uses spacing with zair and projectiles then when there is opening approach and combo with uairs and other aerials. With Bowser his smashes have heavy armor frames so be smart don't try to beat his smashes when you see him charging back off may seem self explanatory but I know myself have done idiotic things like run into smashes. Pretty much Rohins and Orly summed up these two matchups.

 

[Xyro77]

well hees the olimar guide:

rank: 20/80(impossible)

how to win: you cant normally, he cancels all projectiles,out camps you, owns you on ground and can cancel out your aerial sdault, only feasible to win against super noobs, just switch to zss

what to watch out for: your character choice, if you choose samus you will lose so you must be zss, otherwise watch out for all his pikmin based attacks

i decided to sum up olimar right now for everyones convenience against this godly hard ******** ******

the characters that i choose will be the ones talked about. olimar is later on.

 

[0RLY]

So... Xyro. I hope you have fun updating that first post.

 

[Crystanium]

I lost against my friend's Ganondorf today. What? It was Wi-Fi. What do you expect? Still, it was ridiculous.

 

[Xyro77]

The way ill update it is this:

the most common things we have said about bowser/ganon will be put up there. I will personally add some stuff to GANON only cause i fight ALOT of ganon her ein Houston.

 

[Coldfront]

Are we still talking about these two match-ups? Specifically, I mean are we giving these two characters the full week or will we move on soon?

 

[Xyro77]

ignore post

 

[Xyro77]

Sorry for double post! 3 new characters have been added!!!!!! 1 bad one/1 bad one/1 GODLY one.

 

[Smash_Gigas]

Sandbag: 80/20 (Instant Win)

Victory: Push him off the ledge.

Watch Out! Sandbag can keep a perfectly blank stare for as long as he wants. Don't let it distract you!
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Yoshi: 60/40

Victory: Your projectiles are better than his. Your airgame is better than his. Your recovery is better than his. Use these to your advantage. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe Samus's Uair / Up+B can out-prioritize Yoshi's Down+B (Buttslam). Seeing how Yoshi only has his double-jump for recovery, footstooling him is a lethal technique. Eggroll can be easily grabbed. Missiles / Bombs cancel it out too.

Watch Out! Yoshi's Dair --> Nair can be a pretty mean combo, from what I've seen is usually done when they recover from the ledge. Show a little extra caution there. Also, Yoshi's Up+B can give the smallest boost he might need to recover, so once again, a little extra caution is used when edge-guarding against him. Uair is another move you don't want to get hit by. When at close range, Yoshi's Down+B (Buttslam) can stun you as he flips up, if you're too close, allowing him to hit you.

Yoshi can block Missiles with his face via Usmash.
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Marth: ???

I haven't fought much of these, but seems like it could be 30/70.

 

[tha_carter]

Marth
30-70 (Very Hard)

During this Match-up you must make Marth second-guess his approach. The best way to do so is to KEEP mix-up your projectile game keep him at bay. This means homing missles, super missles, bombs, z-airs and most importantly; UNCHARGED SHOTS. The idea is to get marth blocking instead of playing agressively. THIS DOES NOT MEAN CAMP THE ENTIRE MATCH.

Any Good Marth can seriously punish a camper. This is why you need to use the porjectiles as openings for your attacks. A simple connect from a uncharged shot can turn into Zair>Dash attack> Up B. But dont get too caught up with close quarter combat. Aerial or on the Ground; Marth has the advantage in that department. You must use all your oppurtunities to your advantage.

Lastly GIMP a recovering marth with HEAVY Z-air pressure. Marth doesnt have a very reliable recovery, and a couple of these can be his worse nightmare. Usually, Samus' Dair would be the best option, but since Marths Uair/counter completely cancels that, a sweetspot Z-air is really the best option. But dont be afraid to throw out the occassionaly spike.

 

[0RLY]

Yoshi: 30:70

HtW:
-- (On the ground) -- Yoshi's biggest vulnerability is his shield. Being unable to jump or effectively grab out of it severely hinders his game. Good Yoshis don't shield, instead they just DJnair asap for super armor if they really need to. Ftilt and dtilt will help keep Yoshi at bay. Using more ftilt often forces Yoshi to shield, which always puts you in an advantageous position. Did you know that Samus can even ROLL safely if Yoshi is shielded? Dtilt puts Yoshi above you, where he is usually more vulnerable. Bait Yoshi to use a laggy dair/b-down/airdodge and punish with a move of your choice (use your own combos :/). Dsmash is usually not necessary since you can't poke through Yoshi's roll dodges and Yoshis don't tend to roll much anyways. Bombs are amazing since Yoshi usually can't get around them (gasp). This tends to reset the playing field, which is helpful if you're in a tight spot.
-- (In the air) -- Smart Yoshi's are not that easy to gimp. They will toss eggs to keep you at bay before double jumping+airdodge through you if you're too close. To get around this, wait for the double jump+airdodge before you footstool. You have to be off stage at some point during this because it makes no point to footstool Yoshi onto the stage. Being able to gimp Yoshi makes up for Samus' inability to kill effectively. Utilt helps to setup offstage gimps and punish Yoshi's airdodges. Yoshi is relatively large and heavy which makes fair and uair easier to combo with.

Wo4:
-- Yoshi's approach is very limited. Usually a dash grab, dash attack, running usmash, or bair. Simply Screw Attack if his dash attack hits your shield. Do NOT try to grab Yoshi's dash attack. It seems slow at first, but he can jab combo you right out of it. Screw Attack OoS is your best option to handle this. Yoshi's horizontal aerial speed is the fastest in the game, so don't underestimate Yoshi's reach with SHbair. Zair or a well placed uair can put your troubles to rest. Yoshi's dash grab can be avoided easily with a side step or SH; side stepping will leave you vulnerable to Yoshi's jabs that almost always follow his dash attack. Yoshi's jabs seem to come out faster than Samus', which may put you in some trouble. SHAD through Yoshi's Egg spam and fire off a zair once you get through the egg. Yoshi's Egg Toss has some of the most priority in the game. Strange how egg shells have more priority than Samus' missiles. Yoshi's grab is unique for the fact that it can cause jump breaks even if the grabee is taller than him; simply be aware of this if Yoshi is chewing on your armor longer than he should be.

tl;dr: Yoshi is fast in the air but his susceptibility to grabs from many of his attacks makes him that much easier to punish with Screw Attack. Just dodge his eggs, uair, bair, dash attack, and jabs and you should be fine.

 

[Mmac]

Smash_Gigas, I'm sorry, but you have no idea what what you are talking about. If you think that Yoshi's DownB/SideB are his primary attacks, and think that footstooling is a great tactic basically tells me you have never played a good Yoshi in your life.

Since Orly is more serious and knows a bit more, I'll comment on his.

Yoshi: 30:70

HtW:
-- (On the ground) -- Yoshi's biggest vulnerability is his shield. Being unable to jump or effectively grab out of it severely hinders his game. Good Yoshis don't shield, instead they just DJnair asap for super armor if they really need to.

Yeah, Yoshi's shield is kinda lame, but it does help out alot in this matchup against her projectile spam, and also tends to slide when hit, which helps also. However, I think most Yoshi's Spotdodge attacks. I never even thought of DJ Armour for a defencive measure...

Ftilt and dtilt will help keep Yoshi at bay. Using more ftilt often forces Yoshi to shield, which always puts you in an advantageous position. Did you know that Samus can even ROLL safely if Yoshi is shielded?

Ftilt is pretty good, but I don't think Dtilt will work well if he's approaching from the air because of the grounded hitbox. And I don't think you can roll past safely if he's in his shield. Yeah, he can't attack directly out of it, but it's not like it's an actual Egg that takes two weeks to break out of.

Dtilt puts Yoshi above you, where he is usually more vulnerable. Bait Yoshi to use a laggy dair/b-down/airdodge and punish with a move of your choice (use your own combos :/).

Yeah, this is where you lost me. Yoshi will NEVER use DownB in the air, unless he's aiming for the ledge, or you are battling way up in the sky where he knows you can't punish the landing lag even when missed. Dair isn't that laggy anyways, and has 0 Ending lag (Has some landing lag though), and it outprioritizes your Uair. Also, Yoshi can Fastfall way faster than you can, so I don't think you can capitalize punishing an airdodge in time

Dsmash is usually not necessary since you can't poke through Yoshi's roll dodges and Yoshis don't tend to roll much anyways. Bombs are amazing since Yoshi usually can't get around them (gasp). This tends to reset the playing field, which is helpful if you're in a tight spot.

No comments. Yoshi slow *** roll helps getting by Samus's quick Dsmash. Never played a bomb heavy Samus so can't really say how much it effects him.

-- (In the air) -- Smart Yoshi's are not that easy to gimp. They will toss eggs to keep you at bay before double jumping+airdodge through you if you're too close. To get around this, wait for the double jump+airdodge before you footstool. You have to be off stage at some point during this because it makes no point to footstool Yoshi onto the stage. Being able to gimp Yoshi makes up for Samus' inability to kill effectively.

Again with the Footstooling? Footstooling just does not work for ANYONE. It's because you can't Footstool someone if they're attacking or airdodging, which is exactly what Yoshi is going to do. Because you are going for a Footstool, you are completely vulnerable to attack. Yoshi doesn't have to go for an Airdodge, he can very well attack you also. Rising Nair can Stagespike, Uair can kill, and Fair/Dair can lead to getting spiked yourself! Not only that, but he can just as very well go for the ledge. Plus trying to bait an Airdodge will not work. Yoshi has too much horizontal and vertical airspeed. If he didn't already breeze past you, then he is probably too high for it to matter in the first place

You might as well stick with your airs.

Utilt helps to setup offstage gimps and punish Yoshi's airdodges. Yoshi is relatively large and heavy which makes fair and uair easier to combo with.

Not really. Utilt has too much startup lag, and can't punish Airdodging at all. Yes, you can combo him good, but the same thing can be said for Samus

Wo4:
-- Yoshi's approach is very limited. Usually a dash grab, dash attack, running usmash, or bair. Simply Screw Attack if his dash attack hits your shield. Do NOT try to grab Yoshi's dash attack. It seems slow at first, but he can jab combo you right out of it. Screw Attack OoS is your best option to handle this.

These are just people you are quoting and not actually from your own words, isn't it? Anyways, Yeah, Zair and Screw Attack are probably the best (If not, only) Good options Samus really has on Yoshi. However, Screw Attack can be extremely punished if missed. Also he has a few more approaches than that.

Yoshi's horizontal aerial speed is the fastest in the game, so don't underestimate Yoshi's reach with SHbair. Zair or a well placed uair can put your troubles to rest. Yoshi's dash grab can be avoided easily with a side step or SH; side stepping will leave you vulnerable to Yoshi's jabs that almost always follow his dash attack. Yoshi's jabs seem to come out faster than Samus', which may put you in some trouble.

Zair is probably the single most annoying thing I have ever accoutered, and stops his Bair hard. Yoshi's Crawl actually gets a use in this matchup because he can just sneak past Zair spammers! I'm not sure about Uair though, I don't think it can beat out the Bair. And Yoshi's will rarely Dash Grab as an approach. It's only good if you know it's going to grab, and if Yoshi is just going to run straight at her, of course she's going to dodge it

SHAD through Yoshi's Egg spam and fire off a zair once you get through the egg. Yoshi's Egg Toss has some of the most priority in the game. Strange how egg shells have more priority than Samus' missiles. Yoshi's grab is unique for the fact that it can cause jump breaks even if the grabee is taller than him; simply be aware of this if Yoshi is chewing on your armor longer than he should be.

However, this gets stopped hard by just simply ducking and punishing with a Dtilt. And yeah, Yoshi always Air Releases, but too bad He can't do anything from it unlike the other characters.

tl;dr: Yoshi is fast in the air but his susceptibility to grabs from many of his attacks makes him that much easier to punish with Screw Attack. Just dodge his eggs, uair, bair, dash attack, and jabs and you should be fine.

He makes it sound like Yoshi's is a grab *****. Well... I guess he's a Pivot Grab ***** (Something you want to look out for when approaching), but not a Dash Grab *****. And there is alot more to this matchup than that.


Also, Your projectiles are completely pointless in this matchup. His shield helps alot to the spam, and he can also destroy every projectile you have (Even a fully charged shot) with his Bair.... and Nair.... and Dair.... and Jabs.... and Dash Attack.... and Usmash.... and Fsmash.... and Dsmash.... and Dtilt..... and EggRoll.... and Egg Projectiles....

Yeah, I think you have to go CQC in this one.

Also Sandbag is 100-0 Sandbag. You can never beat it because his recovery always sends him to the center of the stage and heals all % Damage. You can never beat him! Not even MetaKnight can!

Captain Falcon can though

 

[SarahHarp]

Also, Your projectiles are completely pointless in this matchup. His shield helps alot to the spam, and he can also destroy every projectile you have (Even a fully charged shot) with his Bair.... and Nair.... and Dair.... and Jabs.... and Dash Attack.... and Usmash.... and Fsmash.... and Dsmash.... and Dtilt..... and EggRoll.... and Egg Projectiles....

The amount of times I've heard people say Samus's projectiles are completely useless against so-and-so is laughable. Obviously you don't get the point of most of Samus's projectiles, if you're taking the time to shield or swat at them with some attack, then you're asking to be punished in some other form :/

That is of course unless Samus stands there watching you do it -.- honestly.

 

[Mmac]

The amount of times I've heard people say Samus's projectiles are completely useless against so-and-so is laughable. Obviously you don't get the point of most of Samus's projectiles, if you're taking the time to shield or swat at them with some attack, then you're asking to be punished in some other form :/

That is of course unless Samus stands there watching you do it -.- honestly.

But since most of his moves just blast right past them uninterrupted (Usually his aerial ones), or recover so quickly from it, that I don't see how you can punish it.

You can't use them to counter an approach, you can't use them to mask aerial movement, you can't use them to protect yourself when recovering, you can't use them as a regular spam, and you can't even edgeguard with them. I guess you can use them here and there to catch them off guard, but I don't see how you can use them as a regular tactic against Yoshi to your advantage.

I know people say in some matchups that Samus's projectile is useless, but in this matchup, they're actually useless!

 

[n00b]

Yoshi, Marth and Sandbag are really tough matchups for this week. I'll edit my post in later today, cuz I really need to think about them.. Good way to start off, Xy

 

[Smash_Gigas]

Smash_Gigas, I'm sorry, but you have no idea what what you are talking about. If you think that Yoshi's DownB/SideB are his primary attacks, and think that footstooling is a great tactic basically tells me you have never played a good Yoshi in your life.

Gee, thanks for the compliment.

I don't recall where I stated Yoshi's DownB / B> were his "primary" attacks. I was merely pointing out some weaknesses he had against Samus. Maybe I didn't word it clearly enough, if I didn't then my apologies.

...and think that footstooling is a great tactic...

Easier said than done, but if you can pull it off, there goes his recovery. Just mentioned this since Dair doesn't always work, as the Yoshi's I've fought go on super armor frenzy with their second jumps.

EDIT: I didn't even use the phrase "great tactic". I stated it was lethal, which it is. This is an analysis thread, analyze people's posts, plz. Thorough reading can give you valuable information that skimming doesn't.

...you have never played a good Yoshi in your life.

Now switching to Controller Port 2.