Dealing With Weakenesses, Current Discussion: Charizard's ledge options

[SSJ5Goku8932]

So, I have decide to make a Topic discussing on Characters weaknesses on how to manage them wisely. I will do this for my other Mains.


Charizard is the HUGE target, and he does not technially move fast in the air.
What happens when you are in a bad postion in the air?

You can suggest a topic once people start saying the same things.


Past Discussions


Ivysaurs Recovery

1) dont get hit off the ledge
2) ranzorleaf edgehoggers
3)instant tether if possible
4) whip for a spike, most guys wont see that coming
otherwise you will have to deal with the few options you are left with. if you work really hard on 1 then the rest will come easy to you.

Aside from the obvious "saving the second jump" and razor leaf stuff, a couple of other things help a lot.

First - If the opponent is shamelessly trying to gimp you, and you're at the right position, you can actually just footstool the edge hogger, back onto the stage. It saves me a couple of times, and it's pretty funny.

Also, you can try F-Air. And I don't mean to hit them off the edge. A lot of times people are looking for Ivy's Up+B so that they can get off the ledge with invincibility and gimp you. Throwing out a F-Air a lot of times will mind game people into getting off the ledge, and then it's yours for the taking.

And if all else fails, just wait. A lot of people underestimate the length of Ivy's tether. I was saved twice today just because I waited for the enemy to get off the ledge, and took it then. Ivy's tether range is awesome, so if you're about to be gimped, and all else fails, don't waste your Up+B.

1) Dont spam the Fsmash
2) Dont spam bulletseed or even dare use it in the air
3) When trying to get back on your either your bair or fair to hit the player (Preferbly your bair since its quicker)
4) Dair spike is hard to pull off so dont bother trying to spike someone.
5) Use two razor leaves when you do a full hop.

Basically Ivysaur's options are not really magnificient. Just move with the upmost care, think fast, and hope for the best.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

0- Save Ivysaur's second jump

0- Razor Leaf edge hoggers

0- If all else fails, Aim a sweetspot Vine Whip at them in hope for a stage spike

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Well, I find it intresting that if they expect that, they get on the stage. That is when you UPB.
LOL Mindgames.

Only works if the oppenent is at high percent or is just slow.


I am talking about the UPB spike.

 

[Toby.]

The edgehogger has enough time to drop down away from the leaf and regrab before ivy can tether the ledge.

If possible its usually helpful to use your second jump to get next to them, then fair/bair/nair/dair depending on the situation. Remember that in order to use bair you need to razor leaf away from the stage first to turn ivysaur around.

Edit: and if the other player knows what they are doing its painfully easy to wait out ivy on the edge and simply get onto the edge when they see ivysaur start the vinewhip animation, which ensures the gimp and stops them from getting hurt.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

There isn't much you can do otherwise though. I'm just listing options that is viable for Ivysaur, what else can I say?

Unless there's some break-through about her recovery, that's all you'll get.

 

[tocador]

Hey, i have a tip that worked for me a fair amount of times!!!!

Hey, what you need to do is, Save your second jump, and when under the person edgehoggin, use Bullet Seed! Then just Dj and recover!

You too can do a "Bullet Seed" suicide if you have a stock advantage! Just bullet seed someone recovering and you gonna kill yourself with then if they cant SDI fast enough!

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

So they travel with Bullet Seed?

This sounds too good to be true.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

Doesn't work. Tap DI up and Ivysaur is die, and they are free from it. The seeds from Bullet seed is set in height, so it changes when IVysaur moves, in this case, downward, therefore, the stream goes downward, and actually you the opponent is freed faster.

 

[Toby.]

^ Correct.

And canvas I wasn't implying that you shouldn't have posted those options. I believe that a thread about overcoming ivysaurs weak recovery needs to acknowledge exactly what the opponent can do about it. Otherwise there will be bad players floating around thinking that if they razor leaf the edge everything will be just fine.

 

[Kith]

Aside from the obvious "saving the second jump" and razor leaf stuff, a couple of other things help a lot.

First - If the opponent is shamelessly trying to gimp you, and you're at the right position, you can actually just footstool the edge hogger, back onto the stage. It saves me a couple of times, and it's pretty funny.

Also, you can try F-Air. And I don't mean to hit them off the edge. A lot of times people are looking for Ivy's Up+B so that they can get off the ledge with invincibility and gimp you. Throwing out a F-Air a lot of times will mind game people into getting off the ledge, and then it's yours for the taking.

And if all else fails, just wait. A lot of people underestimate the length of Ivy's tether. I was saved twice today just because I waited for the enemy to get off the ledge, and took it then. Ivy's tether range is awesome, so if you're about to be gimped, and all else fails, don't waste your Up+B.

 

[Bomber7]

1) dont get hit off the ledge
2) ranzorleaf edgehoggers
3)instant tether if possible
4) whip for a spike, most guys wont see that coming
otherwise you will have to deal with the few options you are left with. if you work really hard on 1 then the rest will come easy to you.

 

[Eljin]

continually dair when coming back to stall ur decent a little.

 

[Adriel]

Why, stagespike them with Bullet Seed of course!

 

[CHOMPY]

1) Dont spam the Fsmash
2) Dont spam bulletseed or even dare use it in the air
3) When trying to get back on your either your bair or fair to hit the player (Preferbly your bair since its quicker)
4) Dair spike is hard to pull off so dont bother trying to spike someone.
5) Use two razor leaves when you do a full hop.

Adriel mind showing us a video of how you can possibly stage spike them with a bullet seed.

 

[Eljin]

num 5 shuld be done more often by ppl srsly

 

[Steeler]

1. don't get hit offstage as ivysaur.

 

[Miles.]

air dodge.

its really good off level.

really.

 

[hundreds of utilts]

saving the 2nd jump and razor leaf basically.


and just hope you wont have to recover low...

 

[typh]

use your leafs

 

[Phiddlesticks]

Press downb

Ivysaur is horrible and never worth using anyways

 

[Miles.]

Press downb

Ivysaur is horrible and never worth using anyways

People who talk like this should go play another character.

 

[typh]

btw throw a leaf from far away and then jump and throw a leaf before the first leaf hits them and then tether on right when the first leaf hits them and press a and the second leaf will hit them and drop off and dair **** them right when the second leaf hits them did i say leaf enough

 

[typh]

Press downb

Ivysaur is horrible and never worth using anyways

 

[Bestiarius]

Phiddlesticks, I now have a serious grudge against you.

Btw, Steeler's advice is the best. If you follow it correctly, you will NEVER get gimped! BRILLIANT!!!!!!!

 

[Kemious]

Yeah Im gonna have to agree with Retro , too many people underestimate Ivy' reach so just waiting sometimes is enough. Depending on your oppoent sometimes its better to tether instatenously and grab on. Another thing I do sometimes is just dair to stall for a second Know that they've been there a while.

 

[Bestiarius]

Yeah, but hoping your opponent sucks isn't exactly the most solid strategy.

 

[MaTA]

well if you razor leaf away from the stage it seems like you can get a little extra push since he is throwing them forward it pushes him pack, save that with a second jump you can bust out back airs like none other if they are edge hogging. That'll help better then razorleafs cause its a lot quicker and you can get more out. then even can jump again or turn and teather.

 

[Fearmy]

spike them with nair, followed with a footstool or dair spike.

 

[CHOMPY]

Dont bother using the Uair since Ivysaur will end up fast falling that move. Also you cant grab the edge if you try to Uair someone with that move while hanging on the edge. Like I said a few posts ago, bair and fairs are your best friends since they are quick and have good range.

What do you guys think of using dair?

 

[Katakiri]

I use D-Air to "slow down" my fall, hoping that it will make them ledge hog too early. If that works I'll use my second jump & Razor Leaf or if I'm close enough, N-Air them off the ledge.

Gotta love Ivy's mind games.

 

[Miles.]

get betteR?

 

[Vermy]

Generally I razor leaf, fair, 2nd jump razor leaf, fair, vinewhip. Recovering that agressively tends to psche the opponent into staying the hell away. These days I rarely get gimped. Ivy's b1tchin' early kill moves make opponents play more cautiously. One mistake and BAM! UPSMASH OF CERTAIN DEATH!

 

[DemonFart]

phiddlesticks thats mean.
hates u now.

if u dont wanna get gimped offstage then.....pray(i do it all the time )
it works.

 

[Eljin]

continually dair when coming back to stall ur decent a little.

narcissistic but w/e

get betteR?

2 good

 

[GuruKid]

Why would you use dair when recovering low? That attack has considerable ending lag during which Ivy falls straight down with no horizontal movement whatsoever.

1. don't get hit offstage as ivysaur.

This. Abuse Ivy's excellence at walling, and just don't. get. hit. :-)

 

[Bomber7]

i like abusing bairs and nairs, mainly nairs cuz theres limitless things oyu can follow up with. though your FIRST Nair should follow up to Bullet seed. you will automatically have the upper hand then because that will leave them up to like 60% or higher.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Well, does anyone have anything else to say?

if not, then I suggest the Topic of Charizard getting Juggled.

 

[Eljin]

go 4 it Goku

 

[T-block]

The only thing I can say other than the standard airdodge is to use d-air's massive hitbox. Once they catch on though, I dunno. I wanna know if the pros here can say anything because I've been having issues with this too.

 

[Miles.]

1. Learn to DI better.

2. Use UP B, NAir, and Rocksmash to break combos.