Custom Moveset Discussion

[Sauron_The_Great]

Why, Sakurai, do you give us Ganon's sword, but not as his actual move set?

 

[hariooo]

Why, Sakurai, do you give us Ganon's sword, but not as his actual move set?

Because updating a characters moveset to make them fun and unique takes away valuable development resources from important features like custom equipment.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Because updating a characters moveset to make them fun and unique takes away valuable development resources from important features like custom equipment.

Because Ganondorf's current moveset is fun and his playstyle is unique, and rebuilding the character from the ground up to make him into yet another freaking swordfighter would take resources away from making other characters like Duck Hunt

 

[hariooo]

Because Ganondorf's current moveset is fun and his playstyle is unique, and rebuilding the character from the ground up to make him into yet another freaking swordfighter would take resources away from making other characters like Duck Hunt

You can add small things to make a character more fun. e.g. giving Ganondorf a short hover in PM suddenly opens us his game so much more and makes him that much more fun to play. In Smash 4 Yoshi finally gets to jump out of shield and now he's actually 10x more fun to play than in Melee.

No one asked for a complete rebuild as a swordfighter, not that a sword would banish him into the generic character category for some reason.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

You can add small things to make a character more fun. e.g. giving Ganondorf a short hover in PM suddenly opens us his game so much more and makes him that much more fun to play. In Smash 4 Yoshi finally gets to jump out of shield and now he's actually 10x more fun to play than in Melee.

No one asked for a complete rebuild as a swordfighter, not that a sword would banish him into the generic character category for some reason.

And take a look at the options that Ganondorf has now, especially when you decide to enable custom moves. Wizard's Dropkick, Dark Fists, and Flame Chain add so much to Ganon's playstyle, and in my opinion, Sm4sh Ganon with customs on is the best and most fun way to play him.
Not to mention that you replied to a post not just asking about changes to Ganon, but specifically asking why they didn't give him a moveset based off his sword, which is indeed a rebuild as a swordfighter

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Im actually quite liking Ganondorfs set now.
If I could change literally two things for Ganon it would be removing Warlock punch for a projectile and letting him float like Peach.
Frankly I don't think he really needs to use a Sword at all. Ganondorf is just a watered down Ganon, Ganon is traditionally magical, and so is Ganondorf. The sword isn't a big part of his character at all.

 

[hariooo]

I can acknowledge someone's statement and agree with a facet of it without supporting their entire premise. People have more nuanced opinions than you give them credit for.

I'm just saying there are a lot of copy-paste characters from Brawl (or very close to copy-paste) so some discretion was clearly exercised in focusing development on the presentation and let's say fluffier elements of the gameplay.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

As much as many of you will disagree, I feel like they should ban windbox custom moves. The mario side-b with the windbox is way too broken in IMO. Don't ban all of them,but just ban the ones like marios cape. We want to see gimps that take skill,not just stand at the edge and press side b when your opponent tries to recover to get an easy kill.

 

[Thinkaman]

Im actually quite liking Ganondorfs set now.
If I could change literally two things for Ganon it would be removing Warlock punch for a projectile and letting him float like Peach.
Frankly I don't think he really needs to use a Sword at all. Ganondorf is just a watered down Ganon, Ganon is traditionally magical, and so is Ganondorf. The sword isn't a big part of his character at all.

Doing Ganon dairs out of a Peach float sounds hilarious.

As much as many of you will disagree, I feel like they should ban windbox custom moves. The mario side-b with the windbox is way too broken in IMO. Don't ban all of them,but just ban the ones like marios cape. We want to see gimps that take skill,not just stand at the edge and press side b when your opponent tries to recover to get an easy kill.

Is there anyone who has difficulty with windboxes besides Little Mac?

 

[MrGame&Rock]

I can acknowledge someone's statement and agree with a facet of it without supporting their entire premise. People have more nuanced opinions than you give them credit for.

I'm just saying there are a lot of copy-paste characters from Brawl (or very close to copy-paste) so some discretion was clearly exercised in focusing development on the presentation and let's say fluffier elements of the gameplay.

You gave no indication that you didn't agree with the premise of sword ganon, choosing instead to make a rather cheap jab at the team's resource allocation. How was I supposed to think any differently from your comment?

And again, they're only "copy-paste" until you consider how drastically custom special moves change these characters. There is absolutely nothing "fluffy" about that

 

[hariooo]

You gave no indication that you didn't agree with the premise of sword ganon, choosing instead to make a rather cheap jab at the team's resource allocation. How was I supposed to think any differently from your comment?

And again, they're only "copy-paste" until you consider how drastically custom special moves change these characters. There is absolutely nothing "fluffy" about that

If everyone read into your posts as closely and specifically as that, they'd be assuming you have some serious overreactions about what weapon a character is holding in their hand.

A "sword ganon" could be a full moveset or just a few b moves. Choosing a very specific interpretation to associate with me and arguing against it is an interesting way to debate, I guess.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Doing Ganon dairs out of a Peach float sounds hilarious.

We can call it the Thunder Storm maneuver.

Ganon U-air spamming towards you should certainly scream King of Evil.

 

[Thinkaman]

Ganon U-air spamming towards you should certainly scream King of Evil.

Only if it has no cooldown and he can just spin-to-win at you endlessly.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Only if it has no cooldown and he can just spin-to-win at you endlessly.

We already have that it's called Sonic

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Brb Calling Sakurai. I'll have Ganon Top-tier by Mewtwos release.

Custom Neutral B.
Orb - Like Gordo's but shoots like Mii Swordsman Chakram
Unstoppable Orb - Can't be hit back/reflected.
Spirit Ball - Turns into Goku, and channels energy for 3 episodes.

Float canceled aerials + Murder choke? Oh lawd.

 

[Thinkaman]

We already have that it's called Sonic

This was beautiful.

 

[UnsuspectingVillager]

I, myself, think that customs should be allowed. Many people would argue it creates randomness.​

Randomness would be a custom changing the whole move. Most customs just modify the existing attack.

Usually when an existing move is swapped for a custom, it's meant to buff something that sucked (obviously). But​

usually it nerfs something else in the long run (ie: Making a usually powerful Side-b benefit you more in recovering), which means while you might have a better recovery, your attack suffers.

And heck, why not allow a For-Glory option that allowed you to use Customs and get paired up with other people who​

are using customs (don't get customs confused with equipment; which can boost attributes like attack power).

I guess only time will tell.​

 

[Thinkaman]

We have multiple threads on this.

Also, you made a poll in which people are allowed to choose neither or both options.

 

[UnsuspectingVillager]

We have multiple threads on this.

Also, you made a poll in which people are allowed to choose neither or both options.

I know, I just wanted my opinion out there. Also I didn't mean to do that with the poll, whoops

 

[Sauron_The_Great]

Because Ganondorf's current moveset is fun and his playstyle is unique, and rebuilding the character from the ground up to make him into yet another freaking swordfighter would take resources away from making other characters like Duck Hunt

My Friend, may i point out that, yet again, Ganondorf's move set is just another clone of C. Falcon's with some minor differences in customizations.

 

[Fenrir VII]

So there were concerns about having all custom moves unlocked on tourney systems.

I confirmed you can transfer full builds of custom move sets (1323 etc) between Wii u and 3ds. If anybody has their build on their 3ds, they can get it in Wii u quickly without Unlocking the moves. Or if one 3ds has all moves, you can make any builds then transfer over.

This seems to keep the name of the person who transferred them in tagged... So I think this concern is.... Not much of a concern

 

[ChronoPenguin]

My Friend, may i point out that, yet again, Ganondorf's move set is just another clone of C. Falcon's with some minor differences in customizations.

A lot of characters share moves.
How many sex kicks are in the game now?
Look at Bairs.
Luigi, Kirby, Mario, WFT, Diddy?
Its like the exact same B-air.

Or How many characters have U-smash like Fox or a similar Utilt like Ganon,Falcon,Mario,Kirby,Luigi..

Outside of his specials and even then Murder Choke and Drop Kick significantly Differ from Falcons options.
Similar Up-special is whatever. If Warlock punch was removed they'd pretty much wouldn't even be semi-clones anymore.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Well, there are no customs at KTAR, and they say it's not likely they'll allow them. So that's a load there. I doubt they'll be at APEX. What a load.

 

[Venks]

I'm pretty worried about Apex's ruleset. I know my region is going to copy Apex's ruleset and other regions have mentioned they'll be doing the same. I can easily see them deciding not to use customs just like KTAR XI because "There isn't enough time to unlock customs before the event".
Whether that's true or not isn't what I want to discuss. I just feel that once Apex makes this ruling custom moves will fall to the side and be looked at as something only casuals use. I don't imagine it ever coming back up as people seem so averse to changing established rules. It'll be a real shame to lose such an interesting part of this game that makes it so unique from the others simply due to Apex.

 

[DunnoBro]

I kind of doubt customs won't become a thing once people get familiar enough with the game themselves, and the customs. But I do believe it would be very difficult to implement at this time... No one would have proper practice against customs, and customs would need a 3ds to upload to each wii u for each match.

I think customs are something that should begin at the grassroots level.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm pretty worried about Apex's ruleset. I know my region is going to copy Apex's ruleset and other regions have mentioned they'll be doing the same. I can easily see them deciding not to use customs just like KTAR XI because "There isn't enough time to unlock customs before the event".
Whether that's true or not isn't what I want to discuss. I just feel that once Apex makes this ruling custom moves will fall to the side and be looked at as something only casuals use. I don't imagine it ever coming back up as people seem so averse to changing established rules. It'll be a real shame to lose such an interesting part of this game that makes it so unique from the others simply due to Apex.

if this happens it will be hilarious

then we can go back to having a wonderfully stale meta of 1 to 3 viable characters with everyone else being ****

SUPER GREAT

Edit: hye gus shuld wii ban meta knight?!?????

it onlee took us 6 yers to reelize he waz borken an needed 2 be banneddd

 

[Flamecircle]

I'm pretty worried about Apex's ruleset. I know my region is going to copy Apex's ruleset and other regions have mentioned they'll be doing the same. I can easily see them deciding not to use customs just like KTAR XI because "There isn't enough time to unlock customs before the event".
Whether that's true or not isn't what I want to discuss. I just feel that once Apex makes this ruling custom moves will fall to the side and be looked at as something only casuals use. I don't imagine it ever coming back up as people seem so averse to changing established rules. It'll be a real shame to lose such an interesting part of this game that makes it so unique from the others simply due to Apex.

This is actually really troublesome. People have said that they expect customs to be legal "some time" and to spice up the metagame, but that won't happen at all once people settle in with not using customs. We need a solid and unified "when" or else the most interesting addition of smash 4 is just going to waste.

 

[DunnoBro]

I'd say mewtwos release (as a DLC anyone can get, not just people who got 3ds and wii u) would be a good time to begin pushing customs. People will have begun to get used to the cast but will have to deal with a new variable anyway, might as well bundle them all together. They should also have unlocked their customs and crap by then too.

There will also have likely be talk on mewtwo legality since, you know... Gotta pay to unlock him so not all wii us might have them. Fine time to bring customs up again imo

 

[rpgcaster]

As if Nintendo doesn't have a paid DLC that unlocks all customs. Yes, this kind of DLC is dirty and kinda underhanded but I'd take than over no method of unlocking aside from mindlessly grinding everything = =

 

[Gyorg the Yossarian]

C'mon, if they let MetaKnight into tournaments in Brawl, they should allow custom moves. Can't be any worse, right?

 

[rpgcaster]

C'mon, if they let MetaKnight into tournaments in Brawl, they should allow custom moves. Can't be any worse, right?

The issue here isn't balance, it's convenience. Metaknight is in the game default, whereas customs are a pain to unlock

 

[ArticulateT]

I suppose the only problem I would have with 'waiting a bit to give folks the opportunity to unlock customs/let the metagame come to a plateau/mewtwo's release' is that by the time that happens, whenever it might be, that the vast majority of folks will find themselves comfortable with the current state of affairs, and to allow Custom Moves to enter the metagame throws the entire toolbox into the works, so to speak.

It would be easier to see customs being viable in the competitive metagame as such a metagame is still developing. I believe that their addition to the game was rife with conflict as it is, with a pure split the made the aspect of the game something more of a love/hate relationship.

 

[Jimray3]

I think that it isn't about balance. At the moment it's about '2long4me to unlock', but I think that IF the tournaments dont allow it, it's probably out of laziness, but there's no way they can negat this. 90% of the players want it, so why the hell would they not enable it.

I really hope apex allows custom moves and mii fighters (with basic weight/height) because otherwise im done.

 

[TheTuninator]

It's rather surprising that they won't allow Palutena or Mii Fighter players to choose from any custom move. Those characters have all of their moves unlocked right away for a reason!

 

[Waluigi is too big]

If tournaments don't allow custom moves.
Smash 4 will die.
I guarantee it.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm pretty worried about Apex's ruleset. I know my region is going to copy Apex's ruleset and other regions have mentioned they'll be doing the same. I can easily see them deciding not to use customs just like KTAR XI because "There isn't enough time to unlock customs before the event".
Whether that's true or not isn't what I want to discuss. I just feel that once Apex makes this ruling custom moves will fall to the side and be looked at as something only casuals use. I don't imagine it ever coming back up as people seem so averse to changing established rules. It'll be a real shame to lose such an interesting part of this game that makes it so unique from the others simply due to Apex.

That was day 2 tournament so it makes sense there.

If APEX allows people to use Wiis that aren't just owned by APEX then there is no excuse.

The clear circle exploit and the hidden customs etc that worked on the 3DS don't work on the WiiU

 

[Thinkaman]

The clear circle exploit and the hidden customs etc that worked on the 3DS don't work on the WiiU

To avoid any confusion, the CSS circle is still clear for negative-stats on WiiU, regardless of effects.

Of course, we've already talked at length about how asinine, difficult, and impractical it is to try and attempt to sneak such a profile onto a WiiU before a tourney set, use it, and not get caught. It's ultimately not a serious concern.

 

[Birdlovingbanjo]

In my opinion custom moves and equipment being legal wouldn't be good because some custom moves are much better than others and some equipment could encourage camping like healer badges (players camping waiting for their health to reg while also wasting the 5/6 minute stock matches) or others can be seen as broken in a competitive stand point. Well this is just my opinion if they are legal I don't mind but I would think keeping it default only would be better to an extent.
If there is a thread were they officially ban or accept custom moves just link it to me.
PS Sorry if beating a dead horse.

 

[Waluigi is too big]

In my opinion custom moves and equipment being legal wouldn't be good because some custom moves are much better than others and some equipment could encourage camping like healer badges (players camping waiting for their health to reg while also wasting the 5/6 minute stock matches) or others can be seen as broken in a competitive stand point. Well this is just my opinion if they are legal I don't mind but I would think keeping it default only would be better to an extent.
If there is a thread were they officially ban or accept custom moves just link it to me.
PS Sorry if beating a dead horse.

If some character are much better then others, then should ban characters?

 

[KLUTZNCUTZ]

Regarding whether or not the wii u version should include custom moves,
The 3ds version can in fact transfer movesets to the wii u version along with equipment. It does not unlock them however and if a change has to be made you will most likely have to go to the 3ds change it and then resend the moveset. Also the wii u limits the amount of movesets a certain character could have so if multiple people play on the same system the movesets would have to be overwritten which would end up taking more time. In the off chance all the systems have them all unlocked the amount of time taken by this is relatively shortened. However like the 3ds version the custom moves are a pain in the ass to unlock it seems unlikely that all the systems at the tournament will have them all unlocked.
The amount of time to send a moveset is relatively small however so if each player were to bring their own movesets it could be plausible to have them at wii u tournaments. This however limits it to only those who own the 3ds version as well. Limiting the amount of people who would play them. Preferably the systems should have them all unlocked for the fastest most fair experience