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Criteria for a Main

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KingK

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Well, I've had Brawl for a while - since March - and I've played around a fair amount with pretty much every character. Yet, somehow, I still just haven't been able to decide on one particular character to main. Now, this is by no means an uncommon problem - I've seen many people posting with a similar dilemma. Most of them have given a list of characters they like, or simply told people to tell them who to main.

I'm not going to do that with this post. Not exactly. I'm going to list 5 criteria I have for a character that I want to main, and I'd like people to tell me which characters they feel meet the criteria.

For anybody thinking about posting something along the lines of "just play whoever you have the most fun with," I would like to respond ahead of time: I know. I've already given a lot of thought to which characters I like most. I've already sat down and tried to figure out which characters fall into my 5 criteria. I just thought it'd be interesting and perhaps enlightening to see what others thought, and see how their conclusions differ from mine.



Here are the 5 criteria, listed (more or less) in order of importance:


1. I don't want to play an overplayed character. I mean this in two senses; I don't want to play a character that is very popular among Brawl players in general, but I also don't want to play a character that is very popular on the tournament scene (i.e. you see at least a handful at every single tourny), among more serious Brawl players, even if that character isn't generally speaking a really popular character. Ideally the character would not be obviously overpowered (in the top 5-7 or so); I want to play a character that has the potential to be good (high mid / upper tier) but that isn't super dominant already.

2. I want to play a character that can reasonably expect to compete (and hopefully win) in almost any matchup. Ideally I never want to feel like a particular matchup is impossible, particularly because of something like a chain grab or gimp that the opponent can pull off without much trouble. Obviously this is within reason; every character has some bad matchups (that will be true as long as Meta Knight is in the game), but I want to play a character that can expect to compete with the vast majority of the cast; not every matchup needs to be good, but there shouldn't be any impossible ones.

3. I want to play a character with solid (doesn't have to be amazing) recovery and a good off-stage game. This is a personal preference, because I really hate feeling confined to the stage; I like edgehogging, chasing off the edge, and fighting in the air. As such I'd rather not play a character that is easily edgehogged or gimped, or that has particularly bad horizontal or vertical recovery.

4. I want to play a character that has some depth to their metagame. I like having character-specific advanced techniques that I can work on and hope to eventually master. That doesn't mean they have to be AT heavy (though I wouldn't mind if they were), but there should be a fair amount of subtle things to master. Depth is the important word here.

5. This is by no means make-or-break, but I like characters with at least one or two moves that spike and / or sweetspot. I really like the challenge of trying to kill somebody with a well timed meteor smash that spikes them to their death or a perfectly sweetspotted attack that rockets them off into the distance.




Okay, that's it. I'll add any more criteria if I think of any good ones, but I think those should be sufficient.

Also, if you wouldn't mind, could you list which characters you eliminate as you go through each criteria? I think it'd be interesting.




P.S. If this is just totally the wrong kind of post for the Tactics forum, then by all means move it to the General Discussion. I know it's kind of bad form, but I purposefully posted here because the General forum tends to have less intelligent discussion.
 

n00b

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Join the Samus team :]

She's not overplayed, matchups aren't too great for her though.. she has amazing recovery (bombs, bomb jumps, grapple, up B), Samus has some technical aspects in terms of missile canceling, shield dashing, grab release, shield release, bomb cancel buffering, etc, and the Samus community could use more dedicated players to advance her metagame. Samus doesn't really have many brute strength KO moves but she does have those challenging to kill with/sweetspot moves like tipper zair, her godly dair, her powerful bair (sweetspot move) and full charge blast.

Of course, this suggestion is entirely biased as I main Samus..
 

Hive

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yea... I main samus too....
but I really doubt she's "high mid/ upper tier".... and even those who can make her that decent are very situational... :(
 

Taiki

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I main dedede, and he seems to fit all your criteria except the first one. But i suppose appearance in tournaments varies by location. He is so obscenly fat and powerful that he has hope in every matchup, and with the incredible f-smash and some good mindgames no match is truely over until GAME appears on the screen.

Someone else you might enjoy is marth. Not to sure where he is in the tier list, but hes good in the vast majority of matchups. He's got a spike, tippers, and an abusive edgeguarding game.
 

ROOOOY!

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Well, Sonic's underplayed, has a very good recovery and decent offstage game.
Doesn't have any completely **** match-ups in the sense of Dedede vs Luigi or anything (Wario and Luigi are the hardest you'll get, but by no means impossible.)
Depth I'm not too sure. Everyone I've seen play Sonic seems to play him differently.
Unfortunately he doesn't have any spikes ¬_¬. Dair semi-spikes but that's all.
Yes I'm biased towards my main.
 

luc4s

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You sound like good Lucas main! just try him out and see if you like him.
 

Mmac

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Here are the 5 criteria, listed (more or less) in order of importance:


1. I don't want to play an overplayed character. I mean this in two senses; I don't want to play a character that is very popular among Brawl players in general, but I also don't want to play a character that is very popular on the tournament scene (i.e. you see at least a handful at every single tourny), among more serious Brawl players, even if that character isn't generally speaking a really popular character. Ideally the character would not be obviously overpowered (in the top 5-7 or so); I want to play a character that has the potential to be good (high mid / upper tier) but that isn't super dominant already.


Zero Suit Samus, Peach, Ike, Sonic, Lucas, Fox, Jigglypuff, Pokemon Trainer, Sheik, Zelda, Bowser, Link, Yoshi, Ness, Mario, Luigi, Samus, Ganondorf, and Captain Falcon are pretty small time on the Tournament Scene.

2. I want to play a character that can reasonably expect to compete (and hopefully win) in almost any matchup. Ideally I never want to feel like a particular matchup is impossible, particularly because of something like a chain grab or gimp that the opponent can pull off without much trouble. Obviously this is within reason; every character has some bad matchups (that will be true as long as Meta Knight is in the game), but I want to play a character that can expect to compete with the vast majority of the cast; not every matchup needs to be good, but there shouldn't be any impossible ones.
-Yoshi has pretty good Matchups with no Impossible ones.
-Sheik has only one Impossible Matchup (Ice Climbers), but can counterpick with Zelda, who has pretty good Matchups with everyone.
-ZSS also has good matchups.
-Pokemon Trainers pokemon has some Impossbles, but can just minimize his time with that pokemon.
-Link, Peach, and Sonic also have good matchups, but I don't know much about theirs, but I believe they are just as solid.

3. I want to play a character with solid (doesn't have to be amazing) recovery and a good off-stage game. This is a personal preference, because I really hate feeling confined to the stage; I like edgehogging, chasing off the edge, and fighting in the air. As such I'd rather not play a character that is easily edgehogged or gimped, or that has particularly bad horizontal or vertical recovery.
- Yoshi can Edgeguard very well now that he no longer has DJC. His recovery is much better and harder to intercept than you may thing
- Samus can also edgeguard well too with her Projectile game and floatingness. Her floaty style, Good UpB, Zair tether, and Bomb Jumps also makes her Recover excellent
- Luigi's Floaty jumps, and his multiple non-helpless Recoveries (DownB, SideB) makes both his edgeguarding and recovery game excellent
- Jigglypuff is a no brainer.
- Lucas has a tether, and a harder to intercept UpB than Ness, who usually has trouble recovering. They Both have good edgeguarding games though.
- Peach's Float moves also increases her recovery/edgeguarding potential.
- Sonic's falling spring and good Bair are pretty good edgeguards, and his Recovery is great.
- ZSS's DownB is a good spike, has insane priority, and is a very good Edgeguard/Recovery. She also has the Stun Gun/Dsmash. Tether maybe a problem though in some cases.
- Sheiks recovery is hard to intercept, but short ranged. Her chain + needles makes a good edgeguard though.

4. I want to play a character that is not necessarily super technique-oriented (but could be), but that has some depth to their metagame. I like having character-specific advanced techniques that I can work on and hope to eventually master. Depth is the important word here.
All of the characters from criteria 3, Plus Fox, Ness, Mario, and Zelda have good non-mandatory techniques, and have plenty of untapped potential for their Metagame to improve

5. This is by no means make-or-break, but I like characters with at least one or two moves that spike and / or sweetspot. I really like the challenge of trying to kill somebody with a well timed meteor smash that spikes them to their death or a perfectly sweetspotted attack that rockets them off into the distance.
- Yoshi's Fair Sweetspot Spikes, and his Dair is a standard Spike
- ZSS's Dair, DownB, and UpB spike, but non require sweetspoting (Though all 3 are difficult to set)
- Samus's Dair Spikes, but thats it I think.
- Ike has 4 Spikes!
- Fox has his Shinespike still, and his Dair spikes.
- Ivysaur and Charizard have a spike with their Dair
- Zelda's Dair can spike
- Ness's Dair can spike
- Lucas has a sweetspot spike with his Bair, and his Dair has a spiking frame.
- Ganondorf has some nasty Spikes
- Falcon's Dair can still spike, and I think his Utilt too.


I think the characters you want best is Yoshi, or ZSS. They fit in all 5 parts of your criteria.

Edit: Actually Diddy may also be unpopular, or so I heard, but I think he's a Technique heavy character.

These are also good picks, but don't fit 100%: Samus, Sheik, Lucas, Sonic, Peach, Fox
 

qmann28

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I haven't heard about too many Diddy's and from what I've read, he's relatively high up on the tier lists. I don't know anything about match ups, but I would go with him. He's got a spike and bananas add to his game.
 

KingK

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Edit: Actually Diddy may also be unpopular, or so I heard, but I think he's a Technique heavy character.
First of all thank you for your in depth post.

Second, I wanted to respond to a possible misconception you may have: I don't dislike characters that are "technique heavy." What I meant by #4 is that I want the character to at least have a decent amount of depth or technical element to their gameplay. The more the better, really.


Also...keep the replies coming. :chuckle:

I'm interested to hear people's thoughts. I especially like it when people break it down like Mmac did - either show which characters you eliminate with each #, or which characters fit each specific one.
 

Harbinger631

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Definately Diddy. High tier currently, has the tools to defeat the best characters in the game, banana game that requires excellent thought and execution, of moderate strength, multiple spikes, long distance recovery, projectiles, etc. He's not popular.
 

Vlade

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I have to say that diddy kong fits all the criteria there.

-Not overplayed
-Good potential, he's been doing reasonably well in tournaments lately
-Good recovery, shouldn't have much trouble getting back to the stage
-Nice off-stage game
-Spikes

Another candidate might be wolf, but he has a poor recovery and is hard to use. I highly recommend diddy kong!
 

Turbo Ether

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Kirby fits the five criteria perfectly. Underplayed, great recovery, insane offstage game, can win against high tier, and his dair is kind of better than a spike. Doesn't require too much tech skill and his copy ability expands his character specific strategies quite a bit.
 

TheDuplexDuo

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Bwahfa whajabah flomoo whazit mofoson yabadit toabitido arfick mun jenkins?!

Forget Diddy! It's Pokemon Trainer you want! I've recently mained the dude in question and it's as fun as a floobootron! You will never tire of this charater! Odds are you will find a favourite of the three. Personally mine is Ol' Charizard. I love flying under Final Destination. Also good edge guarding and ledge games. Also Rock Smash lightly broiled with Flame Thrower any one?

And if that doesn't covert ya Bullet Seed and Hydroplanning ought to tickle ya pickle. What ever floats your boat. Additional possible innuendo.
 

i.E.

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Mario. Zelda. Toon Link (no one uses him, which makes no sense). Wario (places well, not overly used). Luigi. Fox. Kirby.

In fact kirby fits your criteria pretty perfectly.

That's what i can think of off the top of my head, as far as decent and good characters that can place ok competitively, and aren't overly used.
 

General_Norris

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I recommend you either Diddy or Toon link. Both are good characters and are not really played. Mr. Game and Watch also seems underplayed around here.
 

vanderzant

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First character I thought was Toon Link. I'll give you some reasons.

Here are the 5 criteria, listed (more or less) in order of importance:

1. I don't want to play an overplayed character. I mean this in two senses; I don't want to play a character that is very popular among Brawl players in general, but I also don't want to play a character that is very popular on the tournament scene (i.e. you see at least a handful at every single tourny), among more serious Brawl players, even if that character isn't generally speaking a really popular character. Ideally the character would not be obviously overpowered (in the top 5-7 or so); I want to play a character that has the potential to be good (high mid / upper tier) but that isn't super dominant already.

Toon Link is somewhere in D rank in the tournament rankings thread, because nobody plays him. He is also not that popular because alot of people feel he shouldn't have been in brawl in the first place

2. I want to play a character that can reasonably expect to compete (and hopefully win) in almost any matchup. Ideally I never want to feel like a particular matchup is impossible, particularly because of something like a chain grab or gimp that the opponent can pull off without much trouble. Obviously this is within reason; every character has some bad matchups (that will be true as long as Meta Knight is in the game), but I want to play a character that can expect to compete with the vast majority of the cast; not every matchup needs to be good, but there shouldn't be any impossible ones.

Toon Links match ups are nearly all neutral or slight advantage/disadvantage. There is nobody he can consistenly own, but nobody who can always beat him.

3. I want to play a character with solid (doesn't have to be amazing) recovery and a good off-stage game. This is a personal preference, because I really hate feeling confined to the stage; I like edgehogging, chasing off the edge, and fighting in the air. As such I'd rather not play a character that is easily edgehogged or gimped, or that has particularly bad horizontal or vertical recovery.

With good DI a TL player will always make it back to the ledge, either with a bomb in hand or boomberang in flight to stop edgeguarders. He is a very floaty character which allows him to do things like full jump > boomerang > jump > aerial to the very far left/right of screen and still make it back to the ledge with his UpSpecial. He is hard to gimp because of these qualities.

4. I want to play a character that has some depth to their metagame. I like having character-specific advanced techniques that I can work on and hope to eventually master. That doesn't mean they have to be AT heavy (though I wouldn't mind if they were), but there should be a fair amount of subtle things to master. Depth is the important word here.

Short Hop Double Arrow (SHDA), Arrow Cancel, Jump Cancelled throw, Bair strings are some of TL's more important techniques. Depth is the word to describe TL, he has countless options for every situation (he can fight up close, mid range, long range camping). TL players have only begun to scratch the surface of his potential.

5. This is by no means make-or-break, but I like characters with at least one or two moves that spike and / or sweetspot. I really like the challenge of trying to kill somebody with a well timed meteor smash that spikes them to their death or a perfectly sweetspotted attack that rockets them off into the distance.

His dair is a high risk/reward spike that can gimp players after they are sent off the stage. It is very hard to use but very flashy if pulled off. The Kizzu combo (SH double bair > SH bair > 2nd jump > dair spike) is an example of this.
Yeah I'm probably biased but there you go anyway.
 

ixdnL

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I say that you should main the character that you have the most fun with whether they are good or not...
Of course there's always someone in everyone one of these threads that responds this way. And every time I have to agree. Choose a character which you enjoy playing regardless of any other criteria. If the character you choose happens to be widely used, then so be it.
 

wBNeji

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You just described Zero Suit Samus. Not overused, 3 spikes, sweetspots, great recovery as long as you know your distances and know how to NOT get gimped. She has her up b, side b, down b and its built in wall jump, wall jump regularly, and a very high second jump if you dont waste it.

Her side b is sweetspotted, and is an awesome move to kill. So is her bair. She makes awesome combos on-stage, and a good game off-stage. As long as you never user her dair.

And your going to have to master alot with her! How long her neutral b and dsmash paralyze for, how to recovery while being edge hogged, and you will have to learn glide tossing. So there is alot to learn with her.

And her down b is the flipspike if sweetspotted.

Glad I helped? :D
 

Airgemini

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Here are the 5 criteria, listed (more or less) in order of importance:[/b]

1. I don't want to play an overplayed character. I mean this in two senses; I don't want to play a character that is very popular among Brawl players in general, but I also don't want to play a character that is very popular on the tournament scene (i.e. you see at least a handful at every single tourny), among more serious Brawl players, even if that character isn't generally speaking a really popular character. Ideally the character would not be obviously overpowered (in the top 5-7 or so); I want to play a character that has the potential to be good (high mid / upper tier) but that isn't super dominant already.
Peach isnt overpalyed, many people left her because of her Dsmash and other nerfs.


3. I want to play a character with solid (doesn't have to be amazing) recovery and a good off-stage game. This is a personal preference, because I really hate feeling confined to the stage; I like edgehogging, chasing off the edge, and fighting in the air. As such I'd rather not play a character that is easily edgehogged or gimped, or that has particularly bad horizontal or vertical recovery.
Parasol grants her an unlimited amount of horizontal recovery, floating, Peach Bomber and sometimes Toad also help.

4. I want to play a character that has some depth to their metagame. I like having character-specific advanced techniques that I can work on and hope to eventually master. That doesn't mean they have to be AT heavy (though I wouldn't mind if they were), but there should be a fair amount of subtle things to master. Depth is the important word here.
Glide Tossing, Turnip Free pulls, floating techniques, etc.

perfectly sweetspotted attack that rockets them off into the distance.
Ever land a Tennis Racket sweetspot? Pure awesomeness.
Her Pan, and Golf Club have sweetspots too.


So yeah I'd go with Peach =D.

I know I skipped number 2 :p
 

KingK

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I say that you should main the character that you have the most fun with whether they are good or not...
Please read my post again. I addressed this.

In fact, I'll make it easy for you:

KingK said:
For anybody thinking about posting something along the lines of "just play whoever you have the most fun with," I would like to respond ahead of time: I know. I've already given a lot of thought to which characters I like most. I've already sat down and tried to figure out which characters fall into my 5 criteria. I just thought it'd be interesting and perhaps enlightening to see what others thought, and see how their conclusions differ from mine.
I've already played with every single character a bunch, I already have a general idea of which characters I enjoy playing the most. Those characters roughly fall into these 5 criteria. However, I've had trouble deciding on one or even two of them, really because, in truth, there isn't any one character that I have "the most fun with," at least at this point. That's why I thought it'd be interesting to make this post and see what other people thought.
 

KingK

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Heheh.

I must say so far the most convincing cases have been made for:

Diddy Kong
Zero Suit Samus
Kirby
Toon Link

But I also must say that n00b's post about Samus interested me a lot as well, he knows how to make a player feel needed. :)

It's kind of funny because all of those characters are ones that I had seriously considered before. It seems other people have interpreted my criteria similarly to the way I did. Haha.
 

Tomkraven

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Maybe your choice could be lucario...

1.- Hes not overused nor invincible but gives hell of a fight
2.- Has a good air game and recovery(wall cling included)
3.- Has lots of at's, combos etc etc.
4.- he has a very good proyectile

the only thing that is missing is the spike/ sweetspots

the onl
 

TeeVee

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Heheh.

I must say so far the most convincing cases have been made for:

Diddy Kong
Zero Suit Samus
Kirby
Toon Link

But I also must say that n00b's post about Samus interested me a lot as well, he knows how to make a player feel needed. :)

It's kind of funny because all of those characters are ones that I had seriously considered before. It seems other people have interpreted my criteria similarly to the way I did. Haha.
Out of that list I say go with Diddy, his meta game is jumping out the roof right now and he fits all your standards.
 

Serris

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Though she's not exactly high on the tier list, you really should consider giving Samus a shot.

Samus is that sort of character that you like playing as, and could probably win a lot more if her metagame was developed further.

As she stands now, she's relatively low on the tier list. That doesn't mean she lacks potential. Her z-air pretty much neuters any approach you can think of, and it's great for stunning opponents and setting them up for combos. She's pretty heavy, and has a lot of projectiles. All of her moves combo into each other pretty well.

The only thing really going against her is her shortage of early KO moves. Samus's only viable options of reliably KO'ing someone are her back-air, down-tilt, forward smash, up-tilt, and fully-charged shot. This may sound like a lot, but all of these moves require 90% or more to effectively kill someone.

So, she's not exactly great, but she's not bad, either. A good balance between the two.
 

MarthFanatique

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Zamus fits the criteria. Also, Pit does, too (he lacks the spike, but his bair has a sweetspot, doesn't it). Also, Pit may be within the top 5-7, though...
 
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