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I don't mean to be a sore loser, but man...Scizor got some miserable scores.The first character slot was looking spread out when voting first began, but the winner is very much clear now. Our first spear user, please welcome Bandana Waddle Dee as our 2nd newcomer!Character 1
Waluigi IIII III
Rex & Pyra IIII IIII II
Bandana Waddle Dee IIII IIII IIII I
Impa IIII III
Paper Mario IIII III
Dixie Kong IIII I
Funky Kong IIII IIII
Dixie Kong IIII II
Alph IIII II
Octoling IIII IIII IIII IIII III
Dark Bowser III
Medusa IIII III
Black Shadow IIII III
The echo character was a very obvious leader in votes from the beginning-it's the cooler playable character from Splatoon 2, Octoling slides into the roster as our 3rd newcomer!
Thank you all for voting and submitting characters!
This thread looks like it's exactly my style. Can I be a developer partner?
Anyway, let's talk about Isaac's moveset.
This may seem odd, but I've noticed characters that have been heavily requested since Brawl - for instance, Ridley, King K. Rool, and Banjo & Kazooie - tend to have simpler movesets that wouldn't seem out-of-place in Brawl. I suppose maybe it's about giving fans of the character a moveset that matches what they would have expected from the character all those years ago. With that in mind, I'm not particularly interested in giving Isaac some kind of XP or Djinn gimmick. The most I would go for is about Sephiroth's level of complexity.
When I make a moveset, I like to outline the core elements of the character that I would wish to highlight. So let's do that. Keep in mind that I'm not that familiar with Golden Sun.
Now, I can construct a moveset with these in mind. Or at least a mere outline of a moveset.
- Above all, Isaac is a Venus Adept. In other words, he has earth magic.
- Isaac gets Cure at a low level in his default class series. (At least, that's what the wiki tells me.) In the early game, he's your healer.
- In addition to typical earth magic, Isaac also gets utility Psynergy like Move, which are actually used in the field.
- Isaac is considered a "warrior-style Adept" by the wiki, in comparison to "mage-style Adepts".
- I'm not confident in this having not played the game, but if Golden Sun is like any other RPG, you're gonna be using earth magic way more than your sword.
Isaac fits the general mold of a swordfighter, but he doesn't do that much actual swordfighting. Instead, most of his disjoints are actually Venus Psynergy. They're not projectiles, so he isn't a zoner, but they do give him a decently large range. As an earth mage, it follows that his ground game is better than his air game.
- Isaac's down-tilt is Quake, which causes a column of earth to come from the ground and bounce an opponent upward. It's good to start combos, but its hitbox is directly on the ground, so it won't really hit airborne opponents.
- Isaac's down-smash is Gaia, which cause a pillar of energy to erupt from the ground beneath him. This is a powerful move that covers all around you, but it leaves you quite vulnerable if you miss.
- Isaac's down-air is Spire. It's a stall-then-fall attack where Isaac creates a variety of stalactites... then charges downward with them, sword pointed down.
- Isaac's up-B is Growth. It creates a tall plant that has a hitbox while it's growing. For the few seconds it's on the field, it can be climbed like a ladder.
- Isaac's down-B is Cure. This move heals Isaac about 5%, but is somewhat risky to pull off due to its high start- and endlag.
- Isaac's final smash is Judgment, It's a cutscene final smash that recreates the animation for the original's Judgment summon,
Alright, Isaac ideas.
Being a young Venus Adept, Isaac would be a grounded fighter who specializes in controlling the battlefield. His attacks would either go towards the earth or come from it. Aside from some unique quirks to a couple of his moves, Isaac is a mostly simple character
- Jab, tilts, and dash attack use his sword.
- Smashes use Psynergy
- Forward smash is Ragnarok; Isaac creates a large energy blade around his sword and swings it down.
- Up smash is Punji, a thrust of bamboo shoots.
- Down smash is Nettle, a series of thorny vines around Isaac. Multi-hitting move
- Aerials are clunky due to Isaac being out of his element, but are strong and can deal heavy damage in the enemy isn't careful.
- Forward aerial has Isaac stab his sword down in front of himself; Like Hero's down air, but in from instead of directly below.
- Up aerial is an awkward upward strike with the hilt; The attack isn't towards the ground and it doesn't come from it, making it Isaac's worst move
- Down aerial is a vine that deals low damage, but is quick and acts as a tether if it hits the ground, much like the Belmont's whip. Mainly used to get Isaac back on the ground.
- Grab uses Catch Psynergy and throws use various other Utility Psynergies.
- Neutral Special is Gaia, a surge of rocks from the ground. Charging it turns it into Mother Gaia, and charging it further leads to Grand Gaia.
- Side Special is Move; Similar to his Assist Trophy, but obviously toned down in size for balancing purposes.
- Up Special is Growth, causing vines to sprout out around Isaac. In the air, it creates a plant underneath Isaac instead, acting as recovery.
- Down Special is Quake, a quick burst that trips up the opponent. Can be charged to increase the radius and damage.
- In the air, it becomes Spire, a large stalactite sent plummeting downwards. Similar to Mega Man's down aerial.
- Final Smash is Judgement, a cinematic attack based on the original animation.
Alright, here's my basic idea for a moveset. I'll currently leave attacks that I don't have a lot to say about (mostly ones I think would take the form of simpler sword swings) and some moves I may have more than one suggestion for, so people can discuss what they prefer. I'll probably come back to edit this post based on feedback from everyone, to better craft the moveset.
Forward Tilt: Flint
Isaac performs a two-handed sword swing, with the sword having a yellow glow. Has good range and decent kill power. We could also make this attack be a different Djinn unleash instead, such as Sap or Bane, in which case the kill power would be traded out for healing or poison.
Up Tilt: Thorn
Isaac summons a spiky thorn in front of him, reaching above his head and angled slightly towards him. Sends opponents up, so it can combo at lower percents, but it has high knockback growth so it can kill at high %.
Down Tilt: Quake
Isaac swiftly makes a section of the ground quake by his feet, popping up enemies infront of him which makes it ideal for combos and kill confirms.
Dash Attack: Annihilation
Isaac breifly stops in place before making a fast dashing slash, with a kanji appearing where Isaac stops. Being hit during the slash will knock opponents away like a standard dash attack, but at the end of the slash when the kanji appears is a poweful sweetspot that can kill the opponent much earlier.
Forward Smash: Ragnarok
Isaac summons a massive sword near above him that stabs diagonally down into the ground in front of him. The attack is a disjoint and not a projectile, having a large hitbox and great kill power.
Up Smash: Punji series
Isaac raises Punji sticks all around him reaching high above his head, with each one quickly popping out of the ground one after the other. This attack is a multi-hit, with the sticks being disjointed and Isaac having head invincibility.
Down Smash: Gaia series
Isaac stabs the ground, causing it to crack where he stands, with light and rocks shooting out of the crack soon after. Has poweful quake hitboxes that send opponents up and away and is generally more powerful closer to Isaac.
Down Aerial: Helm/Skull Splitter
Isaac brings his sword downwards, performing an Aether style attack with a meteor effect at the beginning. This could either function as a traditional stall-and-fall, or something more unusual such as halting all upward momentum (like Ivysaur's U-air) and going into fast-fall.
His other aerials would mostly be sword swings, but some of them could be Djinn unleashes like mentioned before, such as Flint, Sap or Bane.
Grab and Throws
To grab, Isaac uses Catch, which can be compared to Pacman's grab (instead of a full tether grab) except faster and less active. F-Throw is Move, which sends opponents away with a projectile similar to the Assist Trophy; B-Throw is Scoop, which chucks the opponent backwards; U-Throw is Carry, which lifts opponents up and is Isaac's main combo throw being more effective at lower %; D-Throw is Pound, which would either be Isaac's most damaging throw OR bury opponents that allows for follow ups if fast enough.
Neutral Special: Growth series OR Vine
Growth causes plants to grow from the ground nearby in front of Isaac, damaging any opponents caught in the intial growth with multi-hits and breifly stunning/crumpling them (similar to Ryu's/Ken's Focus Attack), allowing for follow-up attacks. The special button can be held to make the attack taller and wider, as well as making the attack continue to do multi-hits, but this will also increase the attack's endlag, making it easier to punish and follow-up attacks impossible. If held for the full duration, opponents in the Growth will be hit with moderate knockback instead of a stun. The attack will spawn from nearby ground if Isaac is in the air.
We could also leave the Growth on stage for short time after the attack, and any enemies trying to move through it could have their horizontal movement slowed.
Vine would cause an area of vines to spawn from the ground in front of Isaac. The move would do no damage, but opponents caught in the intial spawning of the vines would be hit by an unblockable crumple/stun. The vines would be left on the ground for a period of time, and any opponents trying to move through it would have their speed cut in half and be unable to jump.
Side Special: Spire series
Isaac creates stone Spire projectiles a distance in front of and above him that then fall downwards, hitting any enemies beneath them. The attack can be charged to increase the ammount of projectiles, and the origin of the attack can be moved left or right while charging, with a fully charged Spire dealing heavy shield damage. If hit, the projectiles will continue to hit the opponent until the final projectile launches the opponent away, with the strength depending on the charge, but if the opponent is hit by the Spire as soon as it appears then it will spike the opponent instead.
Up Special: Retreat OR Growth
Retreat would be the most basic recovery, simply acting as a teleport with good range, though a swordfigher hasn't had a recovery like that yet.
Growth would be similar to what was said before, except in the air if there's no ground beneath him then Growth starts where Isaac is, bringing Isaac up with it and giving a final boost upwards after it finishes growing.
Down Special: Demon Night/Thorny Grave OR Vine
Demon Night/Thorny Grave makes Isaac summon and fire a swarm of spirit projectiles, perhaps in a similar functioning manner to Bowser's Fire Breath, except in can't be held. The attack multi-hits and knocks aways with moderate knockback, as well as inflicting a Haunt status effect. Enemies inflicted with Haunt may randomly take a random amount of damage (with no knockback) after performing an action, like attacking, grabbing or possibly jumping. The amount of time Haunt lasts depends on how many projectiles hit the opponent and it can be shortened by hitting Isaac.
Vine would work as stated before.
Final Smash: Judgement
Isaac uses the Gaia Blade's Unleash, Titan Blade, summoning a massive sword to crash down in an area in front of him, acting as the into for a cinematic. If an opponent is hit, Isaac summons Judgement to perform a devastating attack on them, having high damage and kill power.
One last additional detail is that one of Isaac's taunts could be Cure, as that is a big part of Venus Psynergy. If the taunt is allowed to play in full, then Isaac would be healed a certain amount.
When voting, please write Job #12 and the user’s name.This is my proposal for Isaac's moveset. Please feel free to comment on it if you have any questions or suggestions.
Neutral Special: Rockfall/Rockslide/Avalanche
These series of attacks that summons a blast of rocks that shoot upwards from the platform Isaac is standing on. Inputting it once will do Rockfall. The second input will do Rockslide which does more damage with higher traveling distance. The final input is Avalanche is which does the highest amount of damage and is nearly the same height as Palutena's fully charged Up Smash. It can also induce a meteor smash when it hits at the topmost frame. The attack is great for preventing aerial approaches. It is stronger then performed on the ground as opposed to the air. It has a Terry Power Wave effect in that all three versions have a shorter range than the grounded versions.
Side Special: Growth/Mad Growth/Wild Growth
Much like above, inputting it once will do Growth which will shoot out a tangle of vines and weeds. Mashing the special button once released will prolong the attack and deal more hits as the vines snap around. Inputting it again will do Mad Growth which deals more damage and better chance to connect the mashable attacks together. Finally, the last input is Wild Growth which acts like a command grab in that it will grab the opponent and deal multiple hits of damage by smacking them wildly with vines before launching the opponent. Can cause colleterial damage as well to nearby opponents.
Up Special: Retreat
Isaac will vanish quickly before reappearing some distance away. It acts much like Hero's Zoom move. Upon input, it has the greatest recovery and will almost teleport Isaac onto the stage. More inputs will reduce the range it teleports. It doesn't do any damage but helps with Isaac's air game as its severely lacking/horrendous jumping stats.
Down Special: Quake/Earthquake/Quake Sphere
Isaac will summon a quake which will cause the area around him to shake. This will deal damage as well as cause tripping. Like the above specials, the first input will simply create a shaking area around Isaac. The second input extends the radius of effect, damage dealt, and the duration of time. The finallt version will not only do damage but will bury opponents who are close to Isaac while causing those who are further to slip. The attack is great for defensive tactics and can quickly turn the tides of an approaching opponent.
Side Smash: Move
Isaac charges up and unleashes a non-damaging glowing hand made of energy which will push opponents back. It can be angled before being launched. Charging up the attack will increase the size of the hand and the length it travels.
Up Smash: Punji
Isaac causes a forest of bamboo spikes to shoot up around him. Like Ridley's Skewer, it won't launch opponents but it does high damage if the spike portions connects fully on the opponents hurtbox as opposed to a whiff. When this happens, they are stuck in place after being damaged allowing for a follow up attack. They will simply flinch in its a whiff with very little damage. Charging the attack increases the damage and the height of the bamboo spikes. In addition, touching these bamboo spikes from above will knock the opponent up for moderate damage.
Down Smash: Gaia
Isaac summons the forces of the earth and unleashes a well of earthen energy upwards. The attack has a slight gravitational effect which pulls into opponents before launching them. The damage is applied during launch. The attack has an unique mechanic that it will effect the area six seconds after use. Anyone who touches the area when used will become buried; similar to Villager's Down Smash. It's not only an offensive and defensive attack but its also a trap.
Down Aerial: Spire
Isaac unleashes a rock shard that travels downward which functions similar to Mega man's Down Aerial. The added bonus is that it will explode with an earthen fury upon impact with a solid object or opponent which causes colleterial damage to anyone nearby. It's powerful and can cause a meteor smash to opponents directly below Isaac. It has significant landing lag if shorthopped.
Isaac will use the Move ability to grab ahold of someone. This is technically the only distance grab as, unlike others, it will not bring the opponent back to Isaac. I changed this from my original description but the distance the hand grabs is about thee Mario models away. Doing the Pummel causes the hand to squeeze the opponents.
First Party Item: Splat Brella (Splatoon)Job #15: Submit two items. One Item is from a first party franchise. The second item is entirely original
Added. It helps if people ping me:Job #12: WarioJim (of course )
Job #14: Taunts
1. A Venus Djinn appears and flies around Isaac, simiar to the fairy taunts that the Links have.
2. Isaac uses his Psynergy field animation.
3. A unique taunt, Isaac casts Cure on himself, which could function in a few different ways. The first option is that the taunt must play in full to get moderate healing and Isaac can't cancel out of it. The second option is that using the taunt puts Isaac into an animation and after either pressing a button end the animation or letting the animation last the max amount of time, Isaac is healed based on the amount of time before the taunt is ended.
Venus of the Desert Bloom also, should we ping you for Job #14 as well?
Yeah, I like this idea. There's a couple spots missing in both our movesets, so there's enough room to combine them and fill in the gaps.Job #12: ahemtoday's concept.
(I would, however, like to give an honorable mention to SharkLord's concept, and suggest that some of his ideas be used to fill out attacks not listed in ahemtoday's outline. I would specifically like to draw attention to Gaia as neutral special and Move as side special.)
I think this has less to do with you and more to do how I botched up that section. I feel Bandana Dee will be far more streamlined. If it helps, I didn’t get any votes as well.I'm starting to wonder, should I have been more 'certain' about the specials in my move list?
I wrote it the way I did because it gave people some alternate options to discuss and so I could get feedback about which options people prefered and what changes they'd like to see. Should I go back and make it more definitive based on my own judgement?
I appreciate the gesture.Sharklord: 3
Combination of the Above Two: 1
Venus of the Desert Bloom: 0
I also want to note that many people mentioned the idea of combining Sharklord and Ahemtoday’s together and I also like this idea. We will be taking elements from both movesets. While I’m not sure how much we can glean off it, I do want to try and include WarioJim’s content considering they got 2 votes. I will start working on it and hopefully have it done within a few days.