Adapt
Smash Lord
I like bringing Martha to flat stages or stages that are wide
FD and Halberd are good, and YI is ok
FD and Halberd are good, and YI is ok
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Counterpick Stages (vs. Kirby)
- Thread starter NickRiddle
- Start date
solecalibur
Smash Master
Neutral : FD , YI, SV, LC, PS1, BF in that order (dont go to bf vs marth)
CP : Neutrals they seem to have more of an advantage then we do on most Cp's if anything I recommend Halberd or Delfino
Ban : BF
Do not counter pick Brinstar
CP : Neutrals they seem to have more of an advantage then we do on most Cp's if anything I recommend Halberd or Delfino
Ban : BF
Do not counter pick Brinstar
Marth can abuse platforms so much better than us. Stay away from Battlefield, Lylat and Yoshis. Final Destination is very good vs. Marth. On counterpicks, Brinstar is arguably bad but it depends on your confidence on that stage. Cruise is good. Personally I prefer Castle Siege and Stadium 1.
Neutral: Smashville :|
CP: Stadium 1, FD, Brinstar, Castle Siege
Ban: Battlefield
Neutral: Smashville :|
CP: Stadium 1, FD, Brinstar, Castle Siege
Ban: Battlefield
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
I know Haze always goes to SV.
I personally like FD and PS 1
I personally like FD and PS 1
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Yoshis should be your ban trust me. Trying to get back on that stage when pierce edgeguards me is impossible. Otherwise listen to zero, man knows what he's talking about
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Moving quickly, since I got good input on Marth already.
King DDD time!
You guys discuss this first!
:D
King DDD time!
You guys discuss this first!
:D
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
I really don't like SV against him. The combination of small stage and only one plat means that you're gonna get ***** if the DDD is good at pressuring you when you're on the ledge, which imo is one of the few positions that DDD solidly beats us. Yoshi's is actually really nice in my opinion. You can just hop around on the plat until he takes to the air and go from there.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
I dislike Yoshi's for Dedede actually because of Victorytilt, but at low percents it's nice. I like large, more open stages vs King Dedede because it's very easy to run away from him and as a small bonus, the chaingrab/locks do more damage than normal.
solecalibur
Smash Master
Strike : YI, SV, FD (I really prefer D3 on this stage), BF (Depends on your stage control), Llyat
Ban : Delfino (Does wall inf work on us?), RC?
I enjoy cping more neutral stages or watch them CP Castle Siege then I get a good ol CG on them off the 2nd phase of the stage (of course this means I have little to none good d3 exp in a set)
Ban : Delfino (Does wall inf work on us?), RC?
I enjoy cping more neutral stages or watch them CP Castle Siege then I get a good ol CG on them off the 2nd phase of the stage (of course this means I have little to none good d3 exp in a set)
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Pikachu time.
Walk-offs are okay, since we hve a GR CG, BUT Pikachu also CGs us to ~ 47.
Umm... yeah, good luck with this one.
Discuss!
Walk-offs are okay, since we hve a GR CG, BUT Pikachu also CGs us to ~ 47.
Umm... yeah, good luck with this one.
Discuss!
Dumbfire
Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
Pika is good at PS1, allows him to camp easily as well, so unless its really your best stage, its not recommended to go here. FD and SV allow easy spamming, and more easy cg-ing, not recommended either.
Instead, try to go to YI and BF. Especially BF, as they will mostly ban YI. BF allows us to escape the cg better then the other stages, its harder for him to camp, and our Uair can combo easier.
Brinstar is a nice cp to go to, because just like most projectile abusers, he sucks there.
Ban Halberd/Castle Sage.
Pikachu will get in a lot of screen ko's, and Halberd just makes that more easy. In Castle Sage you can be cg't to death with fthrow, so unless your really good in avoiding the grab, also an option to ban.
If youre stuck on Halberd, if you keep Uair fresh it will kill him pretty easily.
About the Grab Release CG, just use it when you hit him with the paralyzer, or forget about it, Pikachu can punish as ****.
Instead, try to go to YI and BF. Especially BF, as they will mostly ban YI. BF allows us to escape the cg better then the other stages, its harder for him to camp, and our Uair can combo easier.
Brinstar is a nice cp to go to, because just like most projectile abusers, he sucks there.
Ban Halberd/Castle Sage.
Pikachu will get in a lot of screen ko's, and Halberd just makes that more easy. In Castle Sage you can be cg't to death with fthrow, so unless your really good in avoiding the grab, also an option to ban.
If youre stuck on Halberd, if you keep Uair fresh it will kill him pretty easily.
About the Grab Release CG, just use it when you hit him with the paralyzer, or forget about it, Pikachu can punish as ****.
I've a very good experience with Pikachu since our Top player (for now) is a furr***.
I usually strike FD and SV. BF is probably our best neutral as usual. YI is a good stage too.
My favourite cp are Brinstar and.
I usually ban FD and Frigate that can be a huge pain in the ***.
We need also to pay attention to stage with walls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xonaaMV_pUU
I usually strike FD and SV. BF is probably our best neutral as usual. YI is a good stage too.
My favourite cp are Brinstar and.
I usually ban FD and Frigate that can be a huge pain in the ***.
We need also to pay attention to stage with walls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xonaaMV_pUU
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
ANYONE NOTICED THE NAME OF THAT YOUTUBE LINK.
In the words of NickRiddle:
'Sad ****ing face'
I CP pika's to brinstar, if they ban it I'm going for castle siege in the hopes of grabs and the fact that you can aircamp better than pikachu on the second part.
In the words of NickRiddle:
'Sad ****ing face'
I CP pika's to brinstar, if they ban it I'm going for castle siege in the hopes of grabs and the fact that you can aircamp better than pikachu on the second part.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Because I like input.
I mean, I COULD do that.
... Meh, whatever. If somebody disagrees with the stages I put for PIkachu, let me know.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Olimar time.
**** YEAH DOUBLE POST! (I don't wanna edit it.)
Umm, I know nothing about this character, so enjoy guys.
**** YEAH DOUBLE POST! (I don't wanna edit it.)
Umm, I know nothing about this character, so enjoy guys.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Rc/frigate/lylat are pretty cool guy
Lylat is probably our best neutral.
So I would begin by striking BF and maybe YI.
He'll probably ban RC so IMO our best cp are Frigate and maybe Brinstar.
Delfino can be gay too if you know what to do. If he falls into the water he'll lose all the pikmins he has except for the blue ones.
LOL at Jungle Japes.
So I would begin by striking BF and maybe YI.
He'll probably ban RC so IMO our best cp are Frigate and maybe Brinstar.
Delfino can be gay too if you know what to do. If he falls into the water he'll lose all the pikmins he has except for the blue ones.
LOL at Jungle Japes.
solecalibur
Smash Master
I'll get hilt for this one I dont feel like explaining every trick olimar has on stages
I'll give a couple of points before he posts
Ban
-Delfino = More Blues whites purples, % on land of getting pikmin
-Japes = Bad Idea
-Yoshi's Island Melee - if this is some how legal and you get cp just forfeit if the olimar knows what to do
-Pictochat - If olimar downthrows you into the fire you get hit by the fire then the knock back of the pikmin afterward hits you after the pikmin hits the ground my friend lost a set vs an olimar because of that
I'll give a couple of points before he posts
Ban
-Delfino = More Blues whites purples, % on land of getting pikmin
-Japes = Bad Idea
-Yoshi's Island Melee - if this is some how legal and you get cp just forfeit if the olimar knows what to do
-Pictochat - If olimar downthrows you into the fire you get hit by the fire then the knock back of the pikmin afterward hits you after the pikmin hits the ground my friend lost a set vs an olimar because of that
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
I personally find it very difficult to get in on an olimar camping under the BF plat, for that reason I would shoot for SV instead of BF for neutrals. I don't tend to do very badly at all on FD but it does make it easier for him to camp you.
As for CPs, I find brinstar is a pretty mixed bag. You can die so easily off the top, and Oli's usmash is in my opinion one of the best kill moves in the game as far as ease of landing it and reward for landing it. RC will obviously give him problems. The tilting of the stage on lylat is annoying because we rely on our suitpieces to give us an advantage at the start of this match, and it messes without our spacing whereas Olis moves are larely unhindered. Japes is bad for Oli, but most ZSs aren't comfortable picking that stage. Frigate can be okay actually, this might be your backup if you can't go to RC.
We don't really have any awesome CPs on him except for RC, so don't expect any easy wins
As for CPs, I find brinstar is a pretty mixed bag. You can die so easily off the top, and Oli's usmash is in my opinion one of the best kill moves in the game as far as ease of landing it and reward for landing it. RC will obviously give him problems. The tilting of the stage on lylat is annoying because we rely on our suitpieces to give us an advantage at the start of this match, and it messes without our spacing whereas Olis moves are larely unhindered. Japes is bad for Oli, but most ZSs aren't comfortable picking that stage. Frigate can be okay actually, this might be your backup if you can't go to RC.
We don't really have any awesome CPs on him except for RC, so don't expect any easy wins
solecalibur
Smash Master
Japes is a no no for any character vs olimar unless your falco honestly
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Frigate Orpheon is a good ZSS stage against characters who can't knock you out low. Don't take Zelda to Frigate, lol.
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
Ive seen good olimars get ***** by warios on japes. It depends on how easily you can knock oli into the water
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Olimar is amazing on Japes. There was a lot of confusion quite awhile ago about japes being a bad stage for Olimar until we actually started playing one it and getting good on the stage lol. It's definitely not your best bet and I wouldn't risk it. There's much better choices for you to take us to. But it's difficult to believe unless you face a competent Olimar, that's familiar with the stage, on it lol
Frigate: Your best bet. This is Olimar's worst stage, even though it's not that bad. Most stages for Olimar aren't really terrible but if there'd have to be a worst, it'd definitely be this.
Rainbow Cruise: Again, like japes, over exaggerated in how bad of a stage it is. The thing about RC is that it goes from being an okay stage to a really terrible stage depending on the matchup. If you're a mk, gw, wario, perhaps rob, or several others (even ike >__>) Rainbow Cruise is completely terrible for Olimar. But ONLY if your character is able to keep up with Olimar, keeping constant pressure on him during the points that matter. Because otherwise, the Olimar is going to play extremely safe and take advantage of the stage's layout to actually KEEP FROM getting gimped. Yes. That's the best thing about RC for Olimar. Olimar's biggest weak point is when the opponent forces him against a ledge where he has no where to run,as his priority up close is terrible and he can't take advantage of his range. Well, on this stage (and japes, btw) if you force us to the ledge, in many situations, there's another area to retreat to. Most Olimars are good at adapting so that's why the stage isn't as bad as people normally believe. However, I don't know if ZSS is a character that can take advantage of it or not, I wouldn't know. But if you're feeling confident, try it out.
If you feel comfortable with Lylat, I could see it working as your best neutral.
Watch out for Halberd, they'll probably take you here.
Brinstar is one of our lower end stages, I wouldn't want to fight a zss on the terrain here. I'm not sure why you'd be worried about us here.
So yeah, your best bets are Frigate, Brinstar, or Rainbow Cruise (he'll ban one of those, so you'll have two to pick from). I'm really not sure how most other stages work in this matchup (such as FD, Castle Seige, etc), as I have very, very little knowledge in the matcup >__>
Just giving the advice from the Olimar's point of view lol
edit: no no no, knocking olimar into the water doesn't kill him or whatever. Only if you knock him in on the left side but a smart Olimar is going to focus on drifting to the right as much as possible. If you knock Olimar into the water anywhere but from the left platform, he's going to actually LIVE after falling off stage, rather than on a stage where he would DIE after falling off stage.
Frigate: Your best bet. This is Olimar's worst stage, even though it's not that bad. Most stages for Olimar aren't really terrible but if there'd have to be a worst, it'd definitely be this.
Rainbow Cruise: Again, like japes, over exaggerated in how bad of a stage it is. The thing about RC is that it goes from being an okay stage to a really terrible stage depending on the matchup. If you're a mk, gw, wario, perhaps rob, or several others (even ike >__>) Rainbow Cruise is completely terrible for Olimar. But ONLY if your character is able to keep up with Olimar, keeping constant pressure on him during the points that matter. Because otherwise, the Olimar is going to play extremely safe and take advantage of the stage's layout to actually KEEP FROM getting gimped. Yes. That's the best thing about RC for Olimar. Olimar's biggest weak point is when the opponent forces him against a ledge where he has no where to run,as his priority up close is terrible and he can't take advantage of his range. Well, on this stage (and japes, btw) if you force us to the ledge, in many situations, there's another area to retreat to. Most Olimars are good at adapting so that's why the stage isn't as bad as people normally believe. However, I don't know if ZSS is a character that can take advantage of it or not, I wouldn't know. But if you're feeling confident, try it out.
If you feel comfortable with Lylat, I could see it working as your best neutral.
Watch out for Halberd, they'll probably take you here.
Brinstar is one of our lower end stages, I wouldn't want to fight a zss on the terrain here. I'm not sure why you'd be worried about us here.
lol that's actually good for us if we lose all of our pikmin except blues. It lets us start fresh but we already start out with some blues. And it only takes nine frames to pluck a new one which is no time at all. Also, Delfino's actually one of Olimar's better stages. I don't really get why you'd cp us here O_o
So yeah, your best bets are Frigate, Brinstar, or Rainbow Cruise (he'll ban one of those, so you'll have two to pick from). I'm really not sure how most other stages work in this matchup (such as FD, Castle Seige, etc), as I have very, very little knowledge in the matcup >__>
Just giving the advice from the Olimar's point of view lol
edit: no no no, knocking olimar into the water doesn't kill him or whatever. Only if you knock him in on the left side but a smart Olimar is going to focus on drifting to the right as much as possible. If you knock Olimar into the water anywhere but from the left platform, he's going to actually LIVE after falling off stage, rather than on a stage where he would DIE after falling off stage.
Because I've never lost a match vs Olimar on Delfino.
The consensus here is that she can.
solecalibur
Smash Master
Thanks again Hilt you always have to much knowledge with olimar >.>
I wouldn't take Olimar to Frigate. He's almost impossible to approach on the segment that looks like Halberd, and iirc he gets more purples and yellows here which are probably the most annoying types, purple especially (SideBd purples shut down any approach method). In addition, unless the Olimar DIs like an idiot you're probably not going to be hitting him at a trajectory that takes as much advantage of the "gimp dat tether recovery" as you can. In fact, he's more likely to hit you at that angle with one of his downsmashes or something."
Not giving him a safe place to camp under is probably the best, or to force him to move so often that he doesn't have the option of staying in one place and abusing the fact that he is disgustingly good with his stupid grabs and smashes.
Not giving him a safe place to camp under is probably the best, or to force him to move so often that he doesn't have the option of staying in one place and abusing the fact that he is disgustingly good with his stupid grabs and smashes.
Xyless
Smash Master
From my experience (as Peach, haven't played a good Oli with ZSS yet), Frigate is really not that great of an option. Like Thio said, he gets more purples and yellows there, which are his more reliable Pikmin.
As far as Neutrals go, Lylat is definitely the best bet. The turning stage can mess with his smashing and tossing game. But chances are he'll strike it.
For counterpicking, Brinstar is probably the safest all-around bet against Oli. He gets more yellows there, but the crazy angles on the stage make it tougher for him to smash and toss. Plus, only having two tetherable ledges makes it a rather obvious choice.
As far as Neutrals go, Lylat is definitely the best bet. The turning stage can mess with his smashing and tossing game. But chances are he'll strike it.
For counterpicking, Brinstar is probably the safest all-around bet against Oli. He gets more yellows there, but the crazy angles on the stage make it tougher for him to smash and toss. Plus, only having two tetherable ledges makes it a rather obvious choice.
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Yeah brinstar's probably your best stage choice tbh, now that I think about it. And yep, Frigate does give extra Yellows/Purples. It's overall not our best stage, I don't know about it for ZSS though.
Oh! How do you all do on PS2 (If it's neutral in your region)? PS2 is most likely worse for Olimar than Frigate, it's just that not many characters (or players) can take advantage of it as much as they can some other stage (Frigate, Rainbow Cruise, etc)
Kamui, what Olimar's have you played? O_o
Just wondering.
But yeah, I really don't know too much about ZSS and her stages, I just know about Olimar and his stages <_< Not sure which Olimar's would have much ZSS experience.
Oh! How do you all do on PS2 (If it's neutral in your region)? PS2 is most likely worse for Olimar than Frigate, it's just that not many characters (or players) can take advantage of it as much as they can some other stage (Frigate, Rainbow Cruise, etc)
Kamui, what Olimar's have you played? O_o
Just wondering.
But yeah, I really don't know too much about ZSS and her stages, I just know about Olimar and his stages <_< Not sure which Olimar's would have much ZSS experience.
Italian ones
They usually get ***** more on Delfinia than on the neutrals. lol
Don't get me wrong they are quite good but probably I'm justway better than them at the MU.
I usually enjoy play with ZSS on Delfinia...
I usually CP Frigate or Halberd.
Halberd is GREAT for getting early uptilt kills, and Frigate is pretty self explainatory. Both stages are also good for gimping and are relatively good about stopping a camping Olimar (platforms, relatively small).
AVOID taking Olimar to FD in my opinion, great place for him to camp and use the entire stage to his advantage on D3.
I don't like Brinstar in this matchup because the lava can save the Olimar after a good gimp...personal opinion there though. I know it doesn't happen that often, but I'd much rather not take the chance than kick myself later for it happening.
Good stuff Hilt!!
Halberd is GREAT for getting early uptilt kills, and Frigate is pretty self explainatory. Both stages are also good for gimping and are relatively good about stopping a camping Olimar (platforms, relatively small).
AVOID taking Olimar to FD in my opinion, great place for him to camp and use the entire stage to his advantage on D3.
I don't like Brinstar in this matchup because the lava can save the Olimar after a good gimp...personal opinion there though. I know it doesn't happen that often, but I'd much rather not take the chance than kick myself later for it happening.
Good stuff Hilt!!
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Okay. Lucario time.
Anywhere he can get gimped?
Small sides help, so no Japes.
Green Greens would probably be good. (Yeah, it's MLG legal, so I'm going to start asking for that stuff... I'd rather not talk about all 9 neutrals though, so keep that part the same.)
Anywhere he can get gimped?
Small sides help, so no Japes.
Green Greens would probably be good. (Yeah, it's MLG legal, so I'm going to start asking for that stuff... I'd rather not talk about all 9 neutrals though, so keep that part the same.)
solecalibur
Smash Master
Id strike YI , FD
lucario's seem to be ok with going to LC then going to SV or BF in my area now since I seem to dominate them in others
CP - Delfino, PS1, Halberd , Brinstar (if your comfortable with the MU first)
Delfino for the constant change in stage to keep lucario pressured
I'd ban Japes , FD (Pictochat is like FD but with little kids drawings) or PS2
Useless Notes :
PS2 : if Lucario charges his Fsmash on the ice part he will glide (while charging and attack)
lucario's seem to be ok with going to LC then going to SV or BF in my area now since I seem to dominate them in others
CP - Delfino, PS1, Halberd , Brinstar (if your comfortable with the MU first)
Delfino for the constant change in stage to keep lucario pressured
I'd ban Japes , FD (Pictochat is like FD but with little kids drawings) or PS2
Useless Notes :
PS2 : if Lucario charges his Fsmash on the ice part he will glide (while charging and attack)
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Only if he does the input non-frame perfect >: (
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Or stutter steps.
Which is intentionally doing a dash first.
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
i would CP stages with low ceilings. normally i would just use marth for lucario ( I would be Cping frigate(my personal) halberd or possibly BF) but common sense low ceilings wreck lucario.
Also does anyone know if he can wall grab brinstar? because if he can't thats definetly a good CP stage
Also does anyone know if he can wall grab brinstar? because if he can't thats definetly a good CP stage