Counterpick Stages (vs. Kirby)

[NickRiddle]

Dtilt? If he spotdodges, dsmash/whatever you want? Or you could do nothing and react to whatever he does. Grab if you're really game?

Yay, I actually like this type of discussion.
F-tilt will always hit us first, unless we're in the middle of the d-tilt animation. (We go very low to the ground, so the first one misses.) If the first one misses, he can do the second one. If they first one is shielded, he can just go into his shield, which we have NOTHING against since his f-tilt still outranges us. The C-4/platform make aerials from anywhere but in front of him risky, and Snake can also beat those with shield. Don't forget, if he gets you into the habit of shielding, he can grab you, which possibly leads to lots of %.

At least on Halberd, you can aerial, go under him, (on the part where MK's shark) and space in general. It also makes Snakes have to think really hard about recovery, since going low gives them %, and going high can kill them easily.

 

[Zero]

I can see your point about Halberd.

I find it hard to believe that ftilt can hit a well spaced Dtilt. Then again, it's ftilt, so who even knows. Given your situation, I would say that crawling > do nothing is the best thing you can do.

 

[NickRiddle]

I can see your point about Halberd.

I find it hard to believe that ftilt can hit a well spaced Dtilt. Then again, it's ftilt, so who even knows. Given your situation, I would say that crawling > do nothing is the best thing you can do.

The only problem is, once again, Snake forces you to approach, and you have no realiable approach vs. Snake. This is made clearer when Snake is under a platform. Honestly, IMHO, the best thing you can do is go on the platform above Snake, blowing up the d-smash if it's there, and shield. Wait for him to do somethig, and d-smash his head. That's pretty risky though.

 

[noradseven]

Yay, I actually like this type of discussion.
F-tilt will always hit us first, unless we're in the middle of the d-tilt animation. (We go very low to the ground, so the first one misses.) If the first one misses, he can do the second one. If they first one is shielded, he can just go into his shield, which we have NOTHING against since his f-tilt still outranges us. The C-4/platform make aerials from anywhere but in front of him risky, and Snake can also beat those with shield. Don't forget, if he gets you into the habit of shielding, he can grab you, which possibly leads to lots of %.

At least on Halberd, you can aerial, go under him, (on the part where MK's shark) and space in general. It also makes Snakes have to think really hard about recovery, since going low gives them %, and going high can kill them easily.

PS standing D-tilt might be solid but if he mash's in the second hit im not sure, but yeah his f-tilt is what makes me hate this mathc.

 

[Snakeee]

Battlefield is fine vs Snake. I actually don't really like FD here, yet I wouldn't ban it or anything. Just ban Halberd that's the only stage you should really worry about where he gets a significant advantage.

I always CPed Brinstar, but a lot of times stupid crap happens on that stage so I probably wouldn't pick it anymore even though it might be the best bet technically. Not sure, but I'd probably just play it safe and go to a neutral, namely BF and Smashville.

 

[Nefarious B]

I always try for battlefield against Snake. I duno maybe I haven't played many good snakes but I always end up doing more damage with the plats even if they do make it harder to get in on them in the first place. I strike SV, it's small which is not good against Snake, and it also doesn't have consistent plats to use. The SV plat can help us get around Snakes ledge traps though.

Halberd isn't really a horrible stage for us but it's really the only thing worth banning at the same time.

 

[NickRiddle]

So, I guess I'm the only one who feels Snake's best level vs. us is BF. Okay, I accept that it's just me.

Any other discussion for our ban? If not, let's move on to where WE should take Snake.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

So, I guess I'm the only one who feels Snake's best level vs. us is BF. Okay, I accept that it's just me.

Any other discussion for our ban? If not, let's move on to where WE should take Snake.

I agree with you on the BF opinion.
Too small of a stage to gain any advantage.
Morter sliding takes up most the stage and its not like the platforms are gonna save us, IMO.

 

[Rybaia]

My secondary (more like other main) is Snake and I've to agree with Nick.
I personally love BF for the stage control. You can just put nades/c4/Claymores on the platforms to make some good portions of the stage unaviable for the opponents.
Snake 'll be easy juggled here but the problem is that you don't have a safe approach.
Snake can control 3/4 of the field and punish everything you'll pull out.
I love Brinstar or Rainbow for this mu.
Probably our best neutral is FD.


Sorry for my crappy english I hope you guys, girls, cake understand what I mean.

 

[solecalibur]

Strike BF and FD / SV
Still dont think FD is a good stage vs snake but Im not that good on FD in general vs characters like Snake & Diddy

 

[xxpatgxx]

Wouldn't FD be a bit better than SV?

 

[noradseven]

Wouldn't FD be a bit better than SV?

Which ever stage has a lower cieling.

 

[xxpatgxx]

Which ever stage has a lower cieling.

lower ceiling for easier Utilt kills? 0_o

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

It kinda blows that snake's utilt kills our uair kills advantage handily.

Then again I think snake's utilt is pretty easy to avoid.

 

[xxpatgxx]

I don't care if I lose to top snakes actually.

 

[Nefarious B]

I duno I usually kill horizontally anyways, uair is for damage more and revenge kills

 

[Zero]

But then you can't win o.o

 

[solecalibur]

Does anyone use Delfino/RC for snakes the constant stage change forces them not camp (over time) and we get more aireal options?

 

[Zero]

RC is banned in my region I'd so take Snake there.

 

[solecalibur]

RC is banned in my region I'd so take Snake there.

what are you east coast or west coast?

 

[NickRiddle]

Does anyone use Delfino/RC for snakes the constant stage change forces them not camp (over time) and we get more aireal options?

These stages are pretty good vs. Snake. Neither of them are particularly bad Snake levels, but they seem to help us more than him.

 

[NickRiddle]

IT'S ON WARIO NOW MY *****S!
Doubkle post!

 

[xxpatgxx]

In my opinion our best stage vs Wario is FD. On FD, we have amazing space to run and camp, and this forces him to approach/get punished easier.

SV is our second best place, for the great camping ability. However the platform can help him, which isn't on FD

 

[NickRiddle]

In my opinion our best stage vs Wario is FD. On FD, we have amazing space to run and camp, and this forces him to approach/get punished easier.

SV is our second best place, for the great camping ability. However the platform can help him, which isn't on FD

Wario bans FD vs. like... the entire cast.
Try to discuss without this stage.

 

[xxpatgxx]

Wario bans FD vs. like... the entire cast.
Try to discuss without this stage.

Okay to Smashville then

 

[Zero]

what are you east coast or west coast?

Australia lmao

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Where in america is that?

Hurrrdurrr americans are dumb

edit:
WITH OBVIOUS EXCEPTIONS

 

[Nefarious B]

I kinda like Yoshi's against wario for w/e reason. It limits his options with dair and airdodging into you. It stops our infinite completely though.

Smashville is probably our best. I'd stick to neutrals on this one most likely.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Hurrrdurrr americans are dumb

edit:
WITH OBVIOUS EXCEPTIONS

Also English isn't your first language so you miss some subtle nuances, in American English when we say "region" we're usually referring to a domestic region. When we refer to areas outside the U.S., "region" doesn't make much sense to us. We would say "country" or "nation" probably.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Right-o, not to be offensive, but what's the point? : O

 

[NickRiddle]

I kinda like Yoshi's against wario for w/e reason. It limits his options with dair and airdodging into you. It stops our infinite completely though.

Smashville is probably our best. I'd stick to neutrals on this one most likely.

We have no infinite on Wario. They can buffer a reverse bike, or just hold away, and all we can do is regrab. (Standing infinites are banned, so we have NO LEGAL INFINITE ON WARIO!)

 

[solecalibur]

Australia lmao

Hurrrdurrr americans are dumb

edit:
WITH OBVIOUS EXCEPTIONS

So the very west coast .........?



On topic Neutrals would be YI / FD
Wario seems to have a lot better options on BF (platform *****) and SV (More room to recover / waft shenanigans )

Counter Picks
My guess would be Delfino , Pirate ship (Midwest) , Halberd and Frigate if your out classing the wario

Ban
Japes , Pipes , Port Town areo drive
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=257823
(see stage list)

 

[NickRiddle]

So the very west coast .........?



On topic Neutrals would be YI / FD
Wario seems to have a lot better options on BF (platform *****) and SV (More room to recover / waft shenanigans )

Counter Picks
My guess would be Delfino , Pirate ship (Midwest) , Halberd and Frigate if your out classing the wario

Ban
Japes , Pipes , Port Town areo drive
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=257823
(see stage list)

Just curious, why Delfino?
Also, could you put more... common bans please? Those 3 levels aren't legal in my area. ^^,

 

[Nefarious B]

Standing infinites are not banned nationally

 

[NickRiddle]

Standing infinites are not banned nationally

Wow... they're banned at 300%... Time to grab Wario once.
As long as you can deal %...
That's stupid. -.-

 

[Nefarious B]

Exactly haha, it's about 1/2 tournies that has them legal in Cali from what I can tell.

Wario can generally break out if you pummel until ~50% though so if you grab him at lower percents just aerial him or take a chance that they don't know about the biking out and dsmash

 

[NickRiddle]

Exactly haha, it's about 1/2 tournies that has them legal in Cali from what I can tell.

Wario can generally break out if you pummel until ~50% though so if you grab him at lower percents just aerial him or take a chance that they don't know about the biking out and dsmash

I've seen Reflex get out on ground after 1 pummel at like... 75... so I'd just wait until 80.
Also, could you test this for me? I'm not sure if I'm a scrub or not.
Grab Wario. Have him hold away from you. Hit with a d-smash without him jumping out.
I'm not sure if it works with grabs too.

 

[Zero]

My friend mashes out of IC grab at 70% without pummels.

and doesn't afraid of anything

 

[Nefarious B]

Well with dsmash you should just be able to mash cstick down so you buffer it.

 

[solecalibur]

Just curious, why Delfino?
Also, could you put more... common bans please? Those 3 levels aren't legal in my area. ^^,

My counterpicks seem to migrate from time to time and delfino and halberd are starting to become my Cp's

Delfino and halberd they think they can shark but we can D-Smash -) D air kill or even with this threat/mind game they tend not to while we can and certain characters (like lucario) are going to recover through the stage then onto the edge and take the free hit


On Delfino I dont go spike happy like most people do and when they do its easy for punishment / gimp (like pirate ship =X)


For realistic bans
I would say BF/Brinstar or RC