CorruptFate's Pit match up (Dead go to Master thread)

[Timbers]

Always watch for the Dair like he said. They like that move esp after a Dthrow

Wut.

lol.

I heard Pit's uair outranges Lucario's dair. Is there proof to this?

 

[kupo15]

it does ONLY if the Pit player hits you with the tips of it. If we go directly under you (like many of us do with this move) then you will hit us. So we have to go to the side of you and Uair

 

[Admiral Pit]

A type of opponent I really dont like, considering how his moves basically outprioritizes Pit's.
My experience at it is to "pick off" a lucario with arrows if he is trying to charge his sphere.

Many Lucarios I have played prefer the defensive game, and like to roll around, and dodge a lot, in an attempt to take advantage of Lucario's growing strength when he has a lot of damage. Obviously, predict, and punish.
D-air, and smash attacks are common for many Lucarios, but like Kupo said, easy to gimp, which is where arrows can really help.
Many Lucarios usually love to grab, so be careful.
Most likely, you'd have to be defensive to get at em.
For aggressive Lucarios, well, idk what to do. Ask Kupo or one of the other angels.
For stalling ones that love to roll, predict and punish, simple as that. I still got a replay of a very poor lucario, and he hit me with 4 of his smash spams.

 

[Timbers]

A type of opponent I really dont like, considering how his moves basically outprioritizes Pit's.
My experience at it is to "pick off" a lucario with arrows if he is trying to charge his sphere.

Many Lucarios I have played prefer the defensive game, and like to roll around, and dodge a lot, in an attempt to take advantage of Lucario's growing strength when he has a lot of damage. Obviously, predict, and punish.
D-air, and smash attacks are common for many Lucarios, but like Kupo said, easy to gimp, which is where arrows can really help.
Many Lucarios usually love to grab, so be careful.
Most likely, you'd have to be defensive to get at em.
For aggressive Lucarios, well, idk what to do. Ask Kupo or one of the other angels.
For stalling ones that love to roll, predict and punish, simple as that. I still got a replay of a very poor lucario, and he hit me with 4 of his smash spams.

You play very silly Lucarios lol.

A lucario generally is going to stay airborne in every match he possibly can. He can space well on stage, but none of his grounded attacks are relatively quick, and his running speed is kind of meh, which makes it hard for him to do anything on the stage regarding combos.

I haven't played any Pits with Lucario yet, though (I always use ROB against him >_>) but don't understimate Lucario's recovery. I know every cool kid is doing it, but it not dealing damage is irrelevant. Why? Because he's rarely ever going to be using that Extreme Speed anyways. Yeah. Lucario has decent aerial DI, a great midair jump, and is floaty. Aurasphere, fair, and dair help him immensely on getting back to the stage. Honestly the only characters I've seen that have any hope on gimping Lucario so far would be Metaknight, Marth, ROB, and Ness. I'm not doubting Pit. He probably has the best game suitable for gimping a Lucario. It also allows Pit to land really his only good killmove; the bair. ES does no damage, and it does have startup. Like I said I don't have much experience with Pit, but being able to aim arrows is certainly going to hassle Lucario's recovery even more than Metaknight or ROB or somethin.

But like I said, I can't really make any verdict on the match yet. I'll play more Pits in the upcoming week and post here again I guess.

 

[kupo15]

Make sure your going to be playing good pits and not the stereotypical ones before making your judgment lol

 

[Admiral Pit]

Make sure your going to be playing good pits and not the stereotypical ones before making your judgment lol

Yea, shame to the noob Pits that are the common spammers. I even faced a Smash-spammin Pit in a Pit match, because she (yes, she) knew that I'd reflect arrow spams.
Anyways, I do consider Lucario to be a threat, mainly because of range. When I make a mistake like leaving myself open I get hit by the Fsmash range.
Surprisingly, I havent faced many Lucarios that love the air, except I believe 1 or 2 decent Lucarios who make decent combos or were aggressive. It's basically his range that gets me more than anything else I suppose.
As for the Sphere, I dont get hit often by it depending on the Lucario's style.

 

[kupo15]

Lucario is a threat if you let him be one. Incredibly fun to fight but just dont run into his Fsmash or Dair and space yourself and you should be fine.

 

[CorruptFate]

Also I forgot to say that the lingering hit box is a pain.

 

[Timbers]

Make sure your going to be playing good pits and not the stereotypical ones before making your judgment lol

I wouldn't comment on a guy's analysis of scrubby Lucarios, and then go play scrubby Pits as a base of my reasoning xD

But in general, it sounds like an odd match. I can't wait to play it. Sadly I'm not going to be at a tournament for two weeks, and Axis isn't until the end of the month, and I only know of one Vegas Pit =P

It might be harder to get some experience than I thought.

 

[blazingIKE33]

well my friends plays mainly as lucario and im pit. its a pretty equal matchup actually. try to stay at a ditance!

 

[WolfCypher]

It's funny. When I'm Pit, I never get to fight competitive Lucario players, so I was going to pass on giving any suggestions this week. Then I realized, that I main Lucario (duh) and as Lucario, I have fought competitive Pit players. So in a way, I can give some tips, one from a Lucario's POV instead of a Pit POV for once.

Lucario against Pit; Lucario is at its best close-quarters. Force Palm abuse is common. It can Jab into a Force Palm, Jab-Jab into a Force Palm, Force Palm into a Force Palm into a Force Palm (Chain FP), even Force Palm into a throw! Its strongs (what you guys call tilts) are great, even its down strong. Spacing against Lucario is important.

Some Lucario will spam Aura Sphere. Against Pit, I try not to. Pit has two reflecting moves, so that's just asking for it. When I fully charge my Aura Sphere, I don't let it loose for a long time; this may make the opponent forget about your projectile (or it'll put them on guard for it for so long, they may not focus on your other tactics cause they're so worried about you fully charged AS). I'll fire it at close range since I haven't gone up against a Pit player who was so instinctive enough to pull out either Anegl Ring or Mirror Shield at such a close distance. Another comon combo involving Force Palm is the FP into an AS. This gives Pit even less time to react to a FS.

Lucario is good in the air, although not as flashy as Pit. Lucario's aerials are for racking up decet damage and knocking you away. In that regard, Pit won't have too much to worry about; Lucario can't gimp Pit all too well (on some occassion I have gimped Pits with Lucario's beloved Down Air while either my Lucario was at a high percent [so Down Air had great knockback] or their Pit was at a high percentage), while Pit can easily gimp Lucario (come to think about it, I wonder if Pit's Mirror Shield can turn around an Extremspeeding Lucario).

Finally, as far as general Lucario players go, be prepared to see a lot of Down Airs, Force Palms, Grabs, and AS.

I say Pit vs. Lucario is about even. Neither have any broken advantage against the other.

 

[Timbers]

Lucario against Pit; Lucario is at its best close-quarters..

wtf no >_>

Pit craps all over Lucario in "close-quarters."

Keeping Pit at Lucario fsmash tip is where Luc wants to be. He can space with his own fsmash, aurasphere, and sh aerials.

 

[cj.Shark]

man i hate fighting lucario. My entire play style is centered off the wear and tear type. I do lots of safemoves and i generally get my opponents to 150+ before killing (unless they make a mistake). this hurts me a bit.

i generally see it as a even matchup. Pit has a tough time KOing which Lucarios rejoice. also Lucario has more range on his aerials. but at the same time Pits projectile and tilts are better He has a much safer recovery (luckily Lucario is not the most graceful trying to gimp pit under a map) and also Pit can easily gimp Lucario. and finally lucarios projectile if reflected is downright deadly. also One thing to mention is Lucario has serveral "BlindSpots" because of his U-air and d-air only hitting vertically. so basically his blindspots are diagonal from him. Knowing this no doubt help Your aerial Game. (the moves u want to use will be Your own -uair, d-air and n-air)

 

[FzeroX]

Okay, so I went on the lucario chat to help them with the Lucario/Fox Match up. So after that, ours changed to Lucario and I was like hey, you guise should come post stuff over here. And Timbers, being the beast that he is, came over and told all the false theories that were brought about here. Anyways on to what I have found.

The biggest problem I have found when fighting a Lucario is dealing with his Fsmash. None of our moves out range (cept arrows, but they are out prioritzed by it anyways), if they are using it alot back of and camp, and use arrows to force them to use a real approach. Any good Lucario will more than likely make contact with the Fsmash, and unless you Powershield it or he is touching you with his hands I would avoid trying to punish it because they have little ending lag and a pretty fast jab

Aerialsl: NOTE: I will put Pit's aerials first so I can type less: There are a few things about Lucario's aerial priority that will help Pit immensely. nair beats fair all the time, abuse that. Also fair will trade hits with fair and bair, still a better deal for us becasue we do more damage* for fair, probably even for bair. utilt beats dair 99.9999% of the time, theirs only wins if we time ours imporperly and they space it right at the same time. Dair beats Uair with proper spacing but is hard to do, so I suggest you airdodge instead. uair loses to dair when coming from directly below, but wins when skewed of to the side (hit with the blades). I have never seen a lucario approach with nair, so I wouldnt worry about it.

For tilts: The only lucario that I have ever seen use dtilt extensively is Azen, so I doubt you will see it too much, but out ftilt and dtilt and utilt are all greater than it (utilt will dodge it most of the time). The Ftilt is the most commonly used tilt for approach, I know our Ftilt will out range it, but will clank the majority of the time, I dont know about dtilt but if it does have more range then it probably has more priority, but no gaurentees. For utilt, my suggestion is DI away and up and airdodge, nothing of ours will come out faster than (correct me if I am wrong). They rarely (even less than dtilt) use it as an approach so not much to counter if they only use it for comboing purposes. (if we have an aerial that comes out on frame 4 then we can beat it)

Smashes: the dsmash is again not very common. very slow and predictable but they use it time to time, watch for it and punish. Upsmash is a very big surprise move, has many invisable hitboxes that last forever you see them use this shield, dodge, just avoid going near this move. I suggest using an arrow becasue he has very little cooldown lag after the last hitbox is gone, even though it looks like he has a ton, there are still lingering boxes. I mentioned before the Fsmash and I'll say it again, that is by far the biggest advantage they have.

Specials: Force Plam (sideB) is rarely used unless after jab-jab and they can combo out of it so becareful if the get the grab, if they miss the grab there is another 1 frame hitbox that is rather weak so just watch out for the move, but dont really worry about it. Aura Sphere, is another thing to not worry to much about because we have mirror shield, not much to say here. Double Team, again just as rare as dtilt, follow the same prcedure for marf's counter, not much to say here either. Extreme Speed, one of the few revoveries we cannot mirror, but it also doesnot attack so we can use that for our advantage, just aerial it to give damage, fair or bair work best. Any good lucario will not get edgehogged becasue they can wallcling after ES, so just try to take them out during the startup lag of the move.

You want to try to kill as early as possible becasue his aura will build (not good for us).

I give this match-up a 55-45 pit advantage, just becasue of there Fsmash giveing us major problems as well as us not being abe to kill very well. aside for that, get early kills and this matchup will not be a big problem

 

[Rogue Pit]

Stay out of the way of his ken combo and avoid moves with lag. His AS has start up lag so i suggest always be ready to mirror. Punish smash spam and watch out for the longer lasting hitbox.

 

[Ryos4]

hmm the only thing ive picked up from playing lucario players. is to not up aerial too often. Lucario's dair pwns pits uair. Though wing canceling seems to work pretty well since the lucarios i play tend to use D&Fsmashes which have enough lag for u to work a wing cancel. Something else to watch out for is ur arrow usage when he has a fully charged aura sphere. Ive been hit by an Aura sphere because i was too busy chasing him down with an arrow approach, through the arrows into my face. lol.

 

[CorruptFate]

Ima post stuff about lucario tomorrow. I did this cause I know CF is prolly gonna update this tomorrow, and I wanted to be inb4change

So edit will be before 3 PDT

I update it when its gone 2 days with no post that way it keeps things moving.

Woot 1000th post.

Now for the info I have seen.

I don't have much againt a really good lucario but newer Lucario's love the fair dair approch. The best way I have seen to stop this is to mirror shield this and tilt it up, if you turn him around then you can punish with what ever you want (most of the time they seem to buffer the dair) if you don't reflect it you have tilted your shield up so it blocks the dair. Watch out for the jab, jab, grab it is a ***** so watch your spacing, but at low enough % the you can avoid the grab. (he has a very short grab reach) As much as I love Pits up air don't use it to right below him as dair beats it if you arn't at an angle. His lingering hit boxes are a pain and will make it hard to punish most of his smash attacks, they stay out for about 6-7 frames I think.

You won't be gimping a good lucario with an edge hog as he has the best wall jump and knows where to go, you you'll just what to make sure you are where he is first and have a strong attack ready, one nice way to kill them that my friend hates is to spam arrow when they are off the edge, because he has some start up lag on his up B you hit him with arrow after arrow until he falls to far to do anything.

Try and get some damage off from a far with arrows this is a mixed blessing with Lucario, but you have to deal damage for a kill. You **** him from a far his arua sphere is nothing compaired to your arrow you arrow will even clink with it when he is at mid-high damage, Don't count on that at to high of damage or the ball will go strait through your arrow and hit you. Thats just sad to watch everytime.

 

[CorruptFate]

Zelda time:

~her Dins fire is a great projectile with a goddly huge hit box
-A G&W bucket full of din's fire is an auto kill-

~she has a reflector

~her smash attacks are good and stay out long making them hard to avoid

~Her tilts arn't bad either

~Down B changes her into sheik

 

[Admiral Pit]

The Din's fire encourages me to stop using gliding to recover. This results me in airdodging, mirror shielding, or using angel ring.

Use arrows AFTER Zelda uses her Din's fire to get a free shot while she is busy.

Usmash will keep me from using aerial approaches. Even wing lunging with F-air is somewhat limited, and I have to resort to ground approaches which is one of my bad spots.
Dsmash is typical...
Fsmash gots range, just DI outta it.

Of the Tilts, I'd say U-tilt is more annoying since it can replace Usmash if used right. As for the D-tilt spammers... what can u do?

I got nothing for Sheik. She's fast and annoying yet, easy to gimp via arrows and edgehogging.
Gah, I havent faced a Zelda for like 3 weeks.

 

[CorruptFate]

Lets save sheik for the next one we talk about i don't wanta mix them or it becomes a pain to find what you want and for me to update the OP.

 

[rinoH]

for zelda you should watch out for her f smash and also u smash

both of those attacks limit where you can go so you should always lure to using one of those attacks and dodge them then punish her . Now for dins fire you should almost never glide against her because of it and when she does use it use mirror shield or airdodge.
Oh and use lots of arrows but watch out for her reflector

 

[Sharkz]

I've played many many Zelda's and from them I've learned many things:
1. Limit your arrows. Zelda is always using her reflector against Pit, so if you are determined to use arrows you've got to loop them or make her think your going to use one, she uses reflector, wait for it to wear off then shoot.
2. Never glide against Zelda, thanks to DF. Always have your MS ready in the air.
3. Above a zelda is the worst place to be. Thanks to her insanely strong Uair & USmash choose your bair timings very wisely or you'll get punished.
4. Under a Zelda is the BEST place to be. She has just about no defense from Pit's Uair and Usmash & that's how I rack up Zelda's damage.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

I have a friend who mains Zelda and I find that Zelda's grabs are really annoying. Any ideas on not getting killed by them? Also, how do you DI out of her Forward and Up smash so that you don't die from the last hit?

 

[CorruptFate]

So I wanta get more posts about this match up before we hit the next 3 posts isn't even what I put on the OP.

 

[Crystanium]

I've played many many Zelda's and from them I've learned many things:
1. Limit your arrows. Zelda is always using her reflector against Pit, so if you are determined to use arrows you've got to loop them or make her think your going to use one, she uses reflector, wait for it to wear off then shoot.

Arrows needn't be limited, really. I did come across a Zelda recently, and while I was using Palutena's Arrows, she would use Nayru's Love to reflect them. Then I thought to myself, "I'll charge up my arrows. When she sees me bring them out, she'll feel compelled to use Nayru's Love." So, I hit her twice. She picked it up after that. Then I did what any Pit player would do against those who have reflective attacks. I jumped and used Palutena's Arrows. I hit Zelda a couple of times. The thing is, when you do it this way, Zelda will be busy reflecting, and you won't get hit.

 

[CorruptFate]

Ninja time: Please include who has the advantage in the match up, we still need to know who has the advantage in the Zelda vs Pit match.

Chain jacket

needles

speed

Great damage racker, then goes to Zelda for the kill
I think thats about, feel free to add more though

 

[Admiral Pit]

Hate Sheik's speed and needles, and is hard to react because of it. Idk what the chain jacket is anyways, well unless it is that whip thingy.
The only thing i got is that shielding Fsmash will leave herself open, and that if Sheik tries to recover, that her up-b only hurts when she disappears, not when she reappears like Zelda. Take that knowledge into edgehogging.

 

[rinoH]

watchout for shieks aerials and chain jacket but ive rarely seen that used cuz i dont play that many shieks

the needles are a problem but one thing is that most shieks dont change to zelda for the kill but you dont really need to worry about her smashes except usmash and if ind that dsmash is not that good of a killer so just watchout for usmash

 

[CorruptFate]

Once you get into the higher damage she becomes prdictable, so its easy to space yourself to avoid her kill moves. Her needles are a pain, as they deal more damage the closer you are, and can be hard to even see.

 

[kupo15]

the only thing I know about is the Ftilt "lock" You need to learn to smash DI it. Also, her Up B is her most powerful kill move.

 

[rinoH]

the only thing I know about is the Ftilt "lock" You need to learn to smash DI it. Also, her Up B is her most powerful kill move.

nah usmash is her most powerful

 

[NxC]

nah usmash is her most powerful

Seconded, by a Sheik alt. When when uncharged, a sweetspoted U-smash is devastating. This poses some problems for Pit, since it makes his aerial approaches that much more difficult and risky.

EDIT: I can add so much more with this post.

Concerning the chain jacket, if you're ever in doubt of what Sheik is up to with that chain, just arrow peg. It's a very easy tactic to notice as far as I know.

The scary part about Sheik is that she can set you up for a sweetspoted u-smash SO EASILY. f-tilt to add elevation, and then she'll just DACUS you and do a vertical one-shot. As any Pit player should know, that which does not kill us is not a threat. If she doesn't feel like going for a kill at that moment, she'll u-tilt after f-tilt locks and create extremely predictable knockback, even WITH DI considered.

The needles CAN be quite a threat if you aren't careful with WoI. Beware of that 225* angle throw. Not only that, when fully charged the needles can 'last' quite a while and maintain a death zone. More on edgeguarding, as long as sheik doesn't get edgeguarded herself, she can pose a lot of threats to Pit's recovery with her teather and a few well-timed maneuvers. Even if you do make it back to the edge, you can't stay on the edge too long, or you'll be d-tilted and set up for more f-tilt locks. Just if Sheik got you to the edge to begin with, you'll probably have to worry about a DACUS or even a H-smash coming your way as you're about to escape.

That aside, Pit does have quite a bit of priority advantage in the situation. Sheik's priority has been nerfed considerably since melee, and while Pit may not have a lot of range for a swordsman, it's still enough to out-range most of sheik's moves, albit bairs (though those always violate laws of brawl so that says little).

 

[Pose]

Yeah, exactly what do you do when you're on top? Try to DI away? Attack with dair?

 

[NxC]

When on top of Sheik, your best option is to find a way to NOT be on top of sheik. Being under sheik is by far the best approach.

 

[kupo15]

Sry, I heard that up B was but it is more powerful than I thought! So I guess Usmash. idk much about shiek

 

[CorruptFate]

Marthypoo is a pain for me so im really wanting to get some talk going on this. Marth has slightly more reach then Pit on most attacks, so if you try to space yourself to barly hit, they marth will tipper you.

Tipper,

Reach,

Speed,

Fair,

footstool> spike,

good edge guard

 

[Admiral Pit]

Im the one to hate Marth because of that disadvantage.
The Tipper is something I hate, and it tempts me to use F-air or the arrows.

Marth will beat Pit in reach, which is another thing I hate. While considering the range, the tipper is still something that has to be feared, regardless of what char you are.

His speed is very similar to Pit's, which gives Pit players pressure considering how they wont be relying on arrows as much as they would some1 slow, like a Ganon. I have problems vs speed anyways.

For F-air, hate it. A Marth is prone to use this move very often as a Spacer for tippers, and with his range, it's rediculous. F-air can set up comboes, spacing for tippers, and Idk, this might force me to either shoot an arrow or try to reverse him with Mirror Shield.

I have never been Footstooled to a spike before, but by all means I hate that spike! I look for some revenge by wishing to Spike a Marth, or kill him with a Mirror Shield KO.

Marth's edgeguard capabilities are one to be aware of. His options includes F-airs or even Spiking, which could pressure a recovering Pit. It really depends.

Overall, Im having to dislike Marth for range, speed, and tipper, especially the stupid Tipper. Marth may have good edgeguarding abilities, but so does Pit. Mirror Shield his recovery or edgehog him, if you can predict the Marth. You just really have to be careful when facing one. Should you try to space (even though you are outranged) you might get hit by a Tipper. I guess it is 50-50 here.

 

[rinoH]

uh watchout for fair

 

[kupo15]

Marth falls at projectiles.

 

[darkspatan117]

who think pit has the best projectile in the game