Congratulations, Min Min! ARMS character(s) for Smash discussion

[Koopaul]

Also RebelMaren is right. Check this out

https://www.models-resource.com/nintendo_switch/arms/

The fighters have very differently shaped bodies. It just doesn't make sense for them to be alts without changing these character proportions.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Good to know that Paper Mario is still rotting away in a horrifyingly bland arts and crafts grave https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqrymQgBrKc RIP

At least I can distract myself with the fact that ARMS still has a fighter coming lol

Give the game a chance, it's bringing back the RPG battle mechanics so it's showing some promise.

 

[SwitchButton]

Give the game a chance, it's bringing back the RPG battle mechanics so it's showing some promise.

I didn't know RPGs had turntables instead of like.. actual strategic mechanics and party members. Maybe it only shows promise if you're a DJ lolol

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I didn't know RPGs had turntables instead of like.. actual strategic mechanics and party members. Maybe it only shows promise if you're a DJ lolol

Lol! I'll wait until the game comes out to decide whether it's good or not.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I didn't know RPGs had turntables instead of like.. actual strategic mechanics and party members.

The turn table may where the strategy comes in sir.

That said, it seems we do have party members...

 

[RebelMaren]

Quick and dirty image to show the characters side by side (Model Resource doesn't have all of them and they didn't seem to be perfectly to scale), but assuming the same height from head to toe (Which Smash usually does with it's Male/Female characters) you can see how they differ here.

Edit: If you're confused why the models look so weird, the model viewer I used doesn't know how to render the faces or some details properly, and the hands are seperate models.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

If the formula of tournaments and spirit events is continuing as normal, then I don't see any reason for them to just shadow-drop the ARMS fighter news when Byleth did a brief warning well enough.

I just hope it's just a 1-day wait this time, that's just short enough.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Also RebelMaren is right. Check this out

https://www.models-resource.com/nintendo_switch/arms/

The fighters have very differently shaped bodies. It just doesn't make sense for them to be alts without changing these character proportions.

You mean like Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings?

 

[Koopaul]

KirbyWorshipper2465

You're probably right. Sakurai understands the importance of a good reveal. I think Nintendo just didn't care with Paper Mario and were like "Oh, yeah, this game is coming out in July"

 

[meleebrawler]

The turn table may where the strategy comes in sir.

That said, it seems we do have party members...

They might not be permanent (think Okamiden) or even controllable, but it still indicates more thought going into characterization than before.

Don't really understand why the characters need to have non-standard designs to be memorable. I still remember Existential Guy from Color Splash, despite looking no different from any other Shy Guy. The fact that you will be working with different species here regardless of whether they are affiliated with Bowser or not (and you have the man-turtle himself. Bowser's Inside Story proves he makes any adventure at least 3 times better when he's on board) already ensures a more ecletic cast, and even the Toads that get the most flak for genericness have new outfits to suit their location or profession.

Just look at that Bob-omb companion they're currently pushing. When's the last time in recent memory they've been shown to have personality beyond an enthusiasm for blowing things up?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

KirbyWorshipper2465

You're probably right. Sakurai understands the importance of a good reveal. I think Nintendo just didn't care with Paper Mario and were like "Oh, yeah, this game is coming out in July"

I think it was more out of not being prepared at all, because "**** it, we never knew we had to transfer our staff into working from home, this stuff's new to us".

Meanwhile Sak and co. were in a more convenient position to do that, since Smash stuff is top secret and they were settled into a post-base game promotion formula anyways.

 

[RebelMaren]

You mean like Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings?

Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings are in a Clown Car, for all intents and purposes, their body shape is just a torso attatched to that, as long as arm length is kept consistant and the hit/hurtboxes are consistant and not problematic on any skin that wouldn't pose a problem.

 

[Koopaul]

I think mentioned this before that alts of different characters is super rare in Smash and a highly unlikely occurrence. I don't think Sak and his team try to do it often. It increases their workload making and rigging more models. And in ARMS' the fighters would all have to be reworked and reanimated to have a more uniform design. I highly doubt they'll do it here. I'm shocked by how many people came to this idea of ARMS alts and thought it was a good idea. No one does this with other games. I doubt many who support Scorpion in Smash would want his alts to be of other Mortal Kombat fighters.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think mentioned this before that alts of different characters is super rare in Smash and a highly unlikely occurrence. I don't think Sak and his team try to do it often. It increases their workload making and rigging more models. And in ARMS' the fighters would all have to be reworked and reanimated to have a more uniform design. I highly doubt they'll do it here. I'm shocked by how many people came to this idea of ARMS alts and thought it was a good idea. No one does this with other games. I doubt many who support Scorpion in Smash would want his alts to be of other Mortal Kombat fighters.

At any rate, the rate of multiple alts per character for Fighter Pass stuff isn't super-great anyways. The best chance they had to do it so far was with , and there would have been even more if they didn't run out of time or run into obstacles. If anything, I could see it as likelier for the Metal Slug cast, in the event SNK brings in anyone else besides Terry.

The minute the ARMS fighter reveal happens, the entire argument will have been rendered moot, guaranteed.

 

[RebelMaren]

The minute the ARMS fighter reveal happens, the entire argument will have been rendered moot, guaranteed.

Because it's Biff right?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Because it's Biff right?

...I mean regardless of who it is.

Besides, Byte & Barq would make it even more impossible, but whatever.

 

[NintenRob]

Smash is no stranger to changing proportions.

Both Female Robin and Byleth is much shorter than Male Robin and Byleth. Alph is also shorter than Olimar. Bayonetta has much shorter limbs now and Ridley has never been this humanoid.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I doubt many who support Scorpion in Smash would want his alts to be of other Mortal Kombat fighters.

As a Scorpion supporter myself, I can say that it's... technically false?

No Scorpion supporter want an outright model change for alts, but the callback of ninjas using palettes of the exact same sprite in the original trilogy is just a perfect idea for potential alts in Smash that there's no way it wouldn't be what we'd get.

So... yeah, Scorpion supporters don't want model changes, but they still want the alts to be of other MK ninjas.

The difference between a MK ninja and an ARMS fighter though is that the former has a way for it to be executed that's clever and references the source material without any more effort than they'd need for the usual palette swaps, so it would actually benefit from it, while ARMS would just get messy and give the devs more workload than necessary.

 

[GolisoPower]

As a Scorpion supporter myself, I can say that it's... technically false?

No Scorpion supporter want an outright model change for alts, but the callback of ninjas using palettes of the exact same sprite in the original trilogy is just a perfect idea for potential alts in Smash that there's no way it wouldn't be what we'd get.

So... yeah, Scorpion supporters don't want model changes, but they still want the alts to be of other MK ninjas.

Wouldn't the only acceptable model changes to Scorpion be using designs that he's toted in the past? Like one alt is his Injustice appearance, another is his MKX appearance, another his Klassic, etc.?

I mean, having different colors for the other ninja would be nice, but there are just so many beloved designs for Scorpion in MK's history that some would feel down that they passed on. Like I absolutely love his Injustice design, and I'd be pretty bummed if they skipped on it.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Wouldn't the only acceptable model changes to Scorpion be using designs that he's toted in the past? Like one alt is his Injustice appearance, another is his MKX appearance, another his Klassic, etc.?

Even then, I could see them stick to only one model change to save on effort. Likely one based on Klassic.

Stuff like Sub-Zero, Rain, Noob Saibot and other ninjas? They're still perfect for palette swaps.

 

[RebelMaren]

Smash is no stranger to changing proportions.

Both Female Robin and Byleth is much shorter than Male Robin and Byleth. Alph is also shorter than Olimar. Bayonetta has much shorter limbs now and Ridley has never been this humanoid.

Sure, though I'd argue that changing height isn't the same thing as changing proportions. Female characters being a couple inches taller isn't all that noticible. The artstyle in the Bayonetta game makes the characters all very tall and slender in general, I do think she looks a little odd in Smash compared to her home series but next to the rest of the roster she fits in, same goes for Ridley.

The issue is that if they were to reshape some of the ARMS cast, they'd be compared to each other, and the changes would be apparent. I guess the solution is a compromised body shape that averages it all out. Its still not ideal. Or they just choose a bunch of characters who DO share a rig, which as far as I can tell is Springman/Springtron/Ninjara or Ribbongirl/Min-Min/Lola Pop or (and I'm not sure about this one) Master Mummy/Max Brass/Misango. Helix, Kid Cobra, Dr.Coyle and Twintelle use similar rigs to other characters but have much more unique animations imo.

 

[Koopaul]

I was supppse to do an analysis on every fighter but I started to realize a lot of fighters have the same pros and cons so I stopped. But I made a list of fighters from likely to least likely.

1st: Spring Man / Ribbon Girl
The two faces of ARMS. Normally I would have just put Spring Man as #1 but his status as an AT bumped him down to being tied with Ribbon Girl. If feel very confident that if they want to use the mascot of ARMS but (for whatever the reason) think Spring Man's AT is a problem, they'll go with Ribbon Girl. Or...

2nd: Min Min
One should never overlook popularity. I think if Spring Man's status as an AT is seen a problem they might go with the most popular character instead. I still feel like Ribbon Girl has a slight edge on that being the other mascot. In most cases the mascot is usually chosen over the most popular. But we have an unusual case with Spring Man. So who knows?

3rd: Max Brass
A super important figure in ARMS and a fighter who's abilities and skills would be a great fit to represent the series. But he's not the most popular character nor the mascot. So those guys above have the edge. Still a strong contender being the ARMS League champ and all.

4th Dr. Coyle
The antagonist of the series and the last fighter added to ARMS. She's pretty important to the lore. She has a lot of unique abilites too. Maybe too unique? I know the Smash team likes to put on a lot of gimmicks into their DLC fighters but she might be a gimmick overload.

5th: Ninjara
This guy is pretty darn popular and is one of the original fighters revealed. He's sort of treated as a rival to Spring Man. His ARMS and abilities would be a good fit in Smash. But other than that, probably not.

6th: Springtron
This is completely hinges on the possibility if the devs find Spring Man's AT status to be a problem but still really want to use Spring Man without using Spring Man. Not likely. But a possibility.

7th: Kid Cobra/ Lola Pop
These two are kind of popular but not too popular. Their moves and abilities would work fine in Smash but they don't have anything else going for them.

8th: Master Mummy/ Misango
These guys are tied. They have nothing going for them but nothing hurting them either.

9th: Twintelle
She's a very popular character. Her moves and abilities would pose no problem in Smash... But she doesn't fight with her ARMS. And yes. I think this is a major problem for her chances.

10th: Mechanica
Has the same problem as Twintelle, she doesn't use her arms to fight. She doesn't have Twintelle's popularity so she's lower than her.

11th Helix/ Byte & Barq
These guys I feel like would be hard to impliment into Smash and really have nothing going in their favor to compete with everyone above.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ridley has never been this humanoid.

Ridley still isn't humanoid.

It's important to note that Humanoid is referring to shape.

The existence of wings and his weird neck thing automatically make not not humanoid.


Point taken though, in that Smash changes proportions.

 

[Koopaul]

They will change the proportions if they have to. Unless they are dead set on making multiple ARMS fighters into alts I don't think they'll do it.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Putting aside the millionth "there'll be alts/no there won't" argument, at which date do any of you suppose we might get the announcement?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Putting aside the millionth "there'll be alts/no there won't" argument, at which date do any of you suppose we might get the announcement?

Early to mid June probably mid June.

 

[Perkilator]

Putting aside the millionth "there'll be alts/no there won't" argument, at which date do any of you suppose we might get the announcement?

Probably when E3 was supposed to happen.

 

[GolisoPower]

Putting aside the millionth "there'll be alts/no there won't" argument, at which date do any of you suppose we might get the announcement?

I'd say during when E3 was supposed to be (June 9-11). The time just feels right to not only announce who the lucky ARMS character is, but also Challenger Pack 7 while they're at it. Almost like a repeat of last year with Hero and Banjo & Kazooie.

 

[Staarih]

Putting aside the millionth "there'll be alts/no there won't" argument, at which date do any of you suppose we might get the announcement?

Optimist in me: 1st of June.
Pessimist in me: 30th of June.

But I guess it's likely around the time E3 was meant to happen.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Putting aside the millionth "there'll be alts/no there won't" argument, at which date do any of you suppose we might get the announcement?

Realistically: June 12, an average E3 day (and my birthday)
Vain hope: late May. They said PP was for February but they dropped late January, so...

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Putting aside the millionth "there'll be alts/no there won't" argument, at which date do any of you suppose we might get the announcement?

I'm gonna guess a Sakurai Presents video could happen around when E3 was supposed to happen, maybe a few days later if translation and editing was affected by quarantines.

If we're lucky, it might even be recorded before the whole pandemic quarantine mess, making it similar to the other ones we've had before.

No FP7 announcement, unless they very blatantly say who it is via gameplay teasers, because I doubt a FP7 trailer is ready due to current circumstances.

 

[fogbadge]

Putting aside the millionth "there'll be alts/no there won't" argument, at which date do any of you suppose we might get the announcement?

mid june id guess

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Putting aside the millionth "there'll be alts/no there won't" argument, at which date do any of you suppose we might get the announcement?

I'm gonna say that it'll drop when Nitendo's E3 would have come so 9th of June. That's only 25 days away.

 

[RebelMaren]

If we're lucky, it might even be recorded before the whole pandemic quarantine mess, making it similar to the other ones we've had before.

Nah son, if we're lucky we're getting a Sakurai presents filmed from his house

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Nah son, if we're lucky we're getting a Sakurai presents filmed from his house

It would be kind of like the 2018 Directs in that sense, since he was alone in those. Then again, I have no idea if he'll have a video conference so that the crew can still see him show off his Smash demo skills (and chortle at any goofy remarks he does as per usual).

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It would be kind of like the 2018 Directs in that sense, since he was alone in those. Then again, I have no idea if he'll have a video conference so that the crew can still see him show off his Smash demo skills (and chortle at any goofy remarks he does as per usual).

It's definitely cheaper, easier to do and requires less resources than what Joker got, so I could see the format remain.

Nah son, if we're lucky we're getting a Sakurai presents filmed from his house

45 minutes of him showing off his controller collection

 

[RebelMaren]

I just want him to show me how to wash my hands in binary.

 

[Koopaul]

I have another question, will the ARMS fighter have an animated trailer? Or do you think it's going to be like Piranha Plant's trailer and just be comprised of some footage?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I have another question, will the ARMS fighter have an animated trailer? Or do you think it's going to be like Piranha Plant's trailer and just be comprised of some footage?

seeing as how PP was just a free bonus (at least free for a limited time) and all pass peeps had full animations, I think ARMS and all of FPV2 will have full cgi/animation trailers. if we get more individual DLC, I can see THOSE going the minimalist approach

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I have another question, will the ARMS fighter have an animated trailer? Or do you think it's going to be like Piranha Plant's trailer and just be comprised of some footage?

Depends on the budget really.