Congratulations, Min Min! ARMS character(s) for Smash discussion

[Rie Sonomura]

Depends on the budget really.

didn't they say earlier they had a surplus? it could carry into FPV2

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I have another question, will the ARMS fighter have an animated trailer? Or do you think it's going to be like Piranha Plant's trailer and just be comprised of some footage?

I'd say animated, yeah. No telling if they'll do a brief "and the winner is…!" bit right before that though.

seeing as how PP was just a free bonus (at least free for a limited time) and all pass peeps had full animations, I think ARMS and all of FPV2 will have full cgi/animation trailers. if we get more individual DLC, I can see THOSE going the minimalist approach

That's an entirely reasonable assumption, seeing as there are 4 slots left over that are currently unused and too short for another pass. Individual ones could likely be for any series that are already firmly established in the game.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

didn't they say earlier they had a surplus? it could carry into FPV2

Depends where that surplus went.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Depends where that surplus went.

So that's why we haven't gotten the FP1 amiibo yet...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'd say animated, yeah. No telling if they'll do a brief "and the winner is…!" bit right before that though.



That's an entirely reasonable assumption, seeing as there are 4 slots left over that are currently unused and too short for another pass. Individual ones could likely be for any series that are already firmly established in the game.

Any addition that could do without a new stage and/or music (like Bandana Dee, Fiora, Black Shadow, any Echoes) would fit this bill. No stage for sure, may or may not come with music

not listing Octoling or Elma cause I want them to come with a stage AND music

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Depends where that surplus went.

Definitely not towards the gameplay presentations, only way those can get any cheaper is if they nixed the Mii costume segments.

 

[Koopaul]

seeing as how PP was just a free bonus (at least free for a limited time) and all pass peeps had full animations, I think ARMS and all of FPV2 will have full cgi/animation trailers. if we get more individual DLC, I can see THOSE going the minimalist approach

The reason I'm asking is the whole COVID-19 thing. I don't think Sakurai and his team make these animated trailers. Doesn't another studio put them together? Things have been difficult in Japan. So I wonder if that will result in a more simple trailer.

 

[Perkilator]

The reason I'm asking is the whole COVID-19 thing. I don't think Sakurai and his team make these animated trailers. Doesn't another studio put them together?

Digital Frontier, I believe.

 

[NintenRob]

Any addition that could do without a new stage and/or music (like Bandana Dee, Fiora, Black Shadow, any Echoes) would fit this bill. No stage for sure, may or may not come with music

not listing Octoling or Elma cause I want them to come with a stage AND music

Bandana Dee absolutely must come with a stage, we still have no modern Kirby stage

 

[Koopaul]

Digital Frontier, I believe.

Ah. So it really depends on how they're doing right now.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The reason I'm asking is the whole COVID-19 thing. I don't think Sakurai and his team make these animated trailers. Doesn't another studio put them together?

I don't know what Digital Media Lab Inc./Digital Frontier's current situation is, but I presume they've made the work from home transition as well.

Bandana Dee absolutely must come with a stage, we still have no modern Kirby stage

Didn't stop from getting in without an Alola stage. I'll take what I can get.

That said, we don't know who's coming, so it's too early to assume things.

 

[Perkilator]

Any addition that could do without a new stage and/or music (like Bandana Dee, Fiora, Black Shadow, any Echoes) would fit this bill. No stage for sure, may or may not come with music

not listing Octoling or Elma cause I want them to come with a stage AND music

Euden may or may not be such a character, since his game’s OST was partly composed by DAOKO (whose music is legally owned right now by Toys Factory, INC.)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

The reason I'm asking is the whole COVID-19 thing. I don't think Sakurai and his team make these animated trailers. Doesn't another studio put them together? Things have been difficult in Japan. So I wonder if that will result in a more simple trailer.

The animated parts could be made in advance

 

[NintenRob]

Didn't stop from getting in without an Alola stage. I'll take what I can get.

So what? At least Pokemon has stages from games that came out after 1996. Pokemon has stages from all across it's mainline series.

Kirby draws stages from 3 games.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

One thought I've been entertaining for some time is a reveal trailer being done with the cutscene/in-game engine from first-party games, could that be possible for ARMS?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

One thought I've been entertaining for some time is a reveal trailer being done with the cutscene/in-game engine from first-party games, could that be possible for ARMS?

Didn't the Byleth trailer already do something like that at some parts?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Didn't the Byleth trailer already do something like that at some parts?

Yeah, though from what I understand that game was mostly outsourced to Koei Tecmo and Omega-Force with IS supervising. We'd be talking homegrown in this case.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yeah, though from what I understand that game was mostly outsourced to Koei Tecmo and Omega-Force with IS supervising. We'd be talking homegrown in this case.

I could see it happen, honestly. ARMS trailers have decent camera work behind them, so if Digital Frontier can't pull off a trailer in time, this could work,

 

[Glaciacott]

3/5 of the trailers in the last pass honored the style of their rep's property or company. Joker's video was super stylized around that game, Terry had the use of SNK cutscenes and assets, and Byleth was done in the style of Three Houses cutscenes.

With this in mind I expect Min Min's Arms rep's trailer to be done with Arms assets to some degree. Then again, Arms doesn't exactly have cutscenes so I would also love to see some CGI combat in there.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think an ARMS fighter would just use the typical CGI style most of the trailers use.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

45 minutes of him showing off his controller collection

Sakurai: And this is the controller I used to end a man's career with. But let's forget about that for now and talk about my favorite controller my custom Bowsetta Gamecube controller.

 

[Glaciacott]

Would you guys reckon that whichever Arms characters don't make it into Smash will suddenly see a surge in support for the next game?

I definitely feel like if Spring Man in particular doesn't get chosen he would be an extremely strong candidate. Assuming he doesn't instead live on in AT purgatory.

In any case I hope the surge in support for Arms characters doesn't descend into nothing.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Would you guys reckon that whichever Arms characters don't make it into Smash will suddenly see a surge in support for the next game?

I definitely feel like if Spring Man in particular doesn't get chosen he would be an extremely strong candidate. Assuming he doesn't instead live on in AT purgatory.

In any case I hope the surge in support for Arms characters doesn't descend into nothing.

I think that depends on two things.

A) Does ARMS have get new games? Are they well liked?
B) Does the moveset of the chosen character allow for non semiclone newcomers?

 

[osby]

Would you guys reckon that whichever Arms characters don't make it into Smash will suddenly see a surge in support for the next game?

I definitely feel like if Spring Man in particular doesn't get chosen he would be an extremely strong candidate. Assuming he doesn't instead live on in AT purgatory.

In any case I hope the surge in support for Arms characters doesn't descend into nothing.

Min Min, if she doesn't get in now. I can easily see her being the next Chrom in that situation.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I think that depends on two things.

A) Does ARMS have get new games? Are they well liked?
B) Does the moveset of the chosen character allow for non semiclone newcomers?

I think the second point doesn't matter as much as you give it credit for, considering we got Isabelle as a Villager semi-clone.

But like Isabelle, the character would need to be massively popular if they go the semi-clone route so that people can still be hyped.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think the second point doesn't matter as much as you give it credit for, considering we got Isabelle as a Villager semi-clone.

But like Isabelle, the character would need to be massively popular if they go the semi-clone route so that people can still be hyped.

They're talking about support, not general likelihood.

Moveset issues aside, Isabelle was simply too popular and iconic to ignore. She's like Luigi in a sense.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

They're talking about support, not general likelihood.

Moveset issues aside, Isabelle was simply too popular and iconic to ignore. She's like Luigi in a sense.

Oh... my b then.

But like, a second ARMS rep would naturally follow very similar ideas for a moveset simply because of how simplistic ARMS' gameplay is and how similar the moves are for all characters. Only major change would be to trade the first rep's unique mechanic and ARMS for those of that second rep's.

The only exception I can really think of is Dr. Coyle due to her variety of unique gimmicks like hovering, air shielding and the cloaking.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Slightly off-topic for a moment, but this is some next level advance planning.

https://sourcegaming.info/2020/05/16/ultimate-timeline/
>Ultimate's design document was finished on the very same day that and got announced

I knew that the planning was done around the time 4's support ended, but never thought it'd be on THIS short of a notice.

Would you guys reckon that whichever Arms characters don't make it into Smash will suddenly see a surge in support for the next game?

I definitely feel like if Spring Man in particular doesn't get chosen he would be an extremely strong candidate. Assuming he doesn't instead live on in AT purgatory.

In any case I hope the surge in support for Arms characters doesn't descend into nothing.

Basically, yeah. I've personally witnessed Mother character support die a slow death over the course of the Smash series, and they're now down to only two characters.

For now though, it is perfectly relevant and a fair bit of characters got a boost of attention from this announcement. I've found yet another six fan arts with Lola Pop in it (courtesy of RavenousRuss)!

Spoiler

Oh... my b then.

But like, a second ARMS rep would naturally follow very similar ideas for a moveset simply because of how simplistic ARMS' gameplay is and how similar the moves are for all characters. Only major change would be to trade the first rep's unique mechanic and ARMS for those of that second rep's.

The only exception I can really think of is Dr. Coyle due to her variety of unique gimmicks like hovering, air shielding and the cloaking.

I figure that Coyle would get particular fan support simply for that reason alone.

They're talking about support, not general likelihood.

Moveset issues aside, Isabelle was simply too popular and iconic to ignore. She's like Luigi in a sense.

A dash of that and Rosalina, seeing as she got in over someone that's been around longer than her (Tom Nook).

That said, if Min Min isn't in, she'll likely get more attention over time due to that tournament win before ARMS' hiatus.

 

[pupNapoleon]

KirbyWorshipper2465

You're probably right. Sakurai understands the importance of a good reveal. I think Nintendo just didn't care with Paper Mario and were like "Oh, yeah, this game is coming out in July"

I don't think the shadow drop of Paper Mario has anything to do with 'not caring.'
We don't know all the details.
There are plenty of scenarios where it was just how it all came together.
I'm sure Nintendo feels they did it very well.

Well, we don't have to get into all the details.
I know Im excited about Origami King.]

Basically, yeah. I've personally witnessed Mother character support die a slow death over the course of the Smash series, and they're now down to only two characters.

Doesn't seem that dead to me... somehow a game with three games with two characters reads as more of a compliment to the series than the proportions of almost any other series. Actually... is there another series with that much representative characters compared to the number of games it has?
Well, Fire Emblem. (legitimately didnt mean to make this *that* kind of point).
I guess you could argue Wii Fit...

 

[pupNapoleon]

double post whoops

 

[meleebrawler]

I don't think the shadow drop of Paper Mario has anything to do with 'not caring.'
We don't know all the details.
There are plenty of scenarios where it was just how it all came together.
I'm sure Nintendo feels they did it very well.

Well, we don't have to get into all the details.
I know Im excited about Origami King.]



Doesn't seem that dead to me... somehow a game with three games with two characters reads as more of a compliment to the series than the proportions of almost any other series. Actually... is there another series with that much representative characters compared to the number of games it has?
Well, Fire Emblem. (legitimately didnt mean to make this *that* kind of point).
I guess you could argue Wii Fit...

Kid Icarus pretty much has the same amount of playable characters as there are games for it, followed by Star Fox.

 

[Koopaul]

I don't think the shadow drop of Paper Mario has anything to do with 'not caring.'
We don't know all the details.
There are plenty of scenarios where it was just how it all came together.
I'm sure Nintendo feels they did it very well.

I mean they didn't care about having a build up to the reveal. All they would need to do is send out a tweet the night before stating that there's going to be a new game announcement. They did that with the last Sakurai Presents so I don't see why they can't do that with other announcements.

See? That's hyping something. Basically I'm saying they didn't care to do something like this with Paper Mario.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yet Sticker Star was liked enough by the company that they made sure that anything referencing Paper Mario for the next few years would focus on that game.

Did Color Splash kill their enthusiasm that much, or did AlphaDream's bankruptcy and Mario & Luigi's subsequent hiatus make them lose faith in Paper Mario, their only remaining active Mario RPG series, staying alive?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Yet Sticker Star was liked enough by the company that they made sure that anything referencing Paper Mario for the next few years would focus on that game.

Did Color Splash kill their enthusiasm that much, or did AlphaDream's bankruptcy and Mario & Luigi's subsequent hiatus make them lose faith in Paper Mario, their only remaining active Mario RPG series, staying alive?

Okay, hear me out: a Mario RPG made by Monolith Soft.

Eh? Eh?

 

[fogbadge]

Kid Icarus pretty much has the same amount of playable characters as there are games for it, followed by Star Fox.

star fox has twice as games as characters

thats not counting guard and star fox 2 mind you

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Okay, hear me out: a Mario RPG made by Monolith Soft.

Eh? Eh?

Make sure it's not another attempt at restarting the Xeno saga and we're golden.

 

[meleebrawler]

Yet Sticker Star was liked enough by the company that they made sure that anything referencing Paper Mario for the next few years would focus on that game.

Did Color Splash kill their enthusiasm that much, or did AlphaDream's bankruptcy and Mario & Luigi's subsequent hiatus make them lose faith in Paper Mario, their only remaining active Mario RPG series, staying alive?

In game development, lack of confidence in a product usually means stop making it altogether, the smart thing to do. It wouldn't have been hard with no prior announcement as we'd be none the wiser. You're making it seem as if Nintendo is putting Intelligent Systems at gunpoint to make more Paper Mario games against their wishes.

I'd be more concerned if we actually got remasters of the first two Paper Marios, because if Mario & Luigi is any indication, they could be the sign of desperation. Of course, they still have Fire Emblem and all...

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'd be more concerned if we actually got remasters of the first two Paper Marios, because if Mario & Luigi is any indication, they could be the sign of desperation. Of course, they still have Fire Emblem and all...

Things seem to point at IS trying to focus on the rest of their catalogue again, if Advance Wars mobile rumors and Panel de Pon's export/rerelease are any indication.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I mean they didn't care about having a build up to the reveal. All they would need to do is send out a tweet the night before stating that there's going to be a new game announcement. They did that with the last Sakurai Presents so I don't see why they can't do that with other announcements.

View attachment 271944

See? That's hyping something. Basically I'm saying they didn't care to do something like this with Paper Mario.

Yes, they could have, but it is hardly the same thing as Smash bros.
I cant think of a game that generates the hype of smash bros, and certainly none with the hype factor of a reveal.

They might just feel Paper Mario didnt warrant it. They could have reasoned it many ways- I'm partial to believing they think a shadow drop allowed the news to be taken at face value, and not marginalized for not being what so and so wanted.

A shadow drop doesnt mean it isnt cared for. I think its silly to say Nintendo doesn't care about it.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

In these times, I'm expecting Nintendo's whole E3 line-up to get shadowdropped so it'll be nothing personal. Keep an eye on the official twitter over the next few weeks.