Congratulations, Min Min! ARMS character(s) for Smash discussion

[Guybrush20X6]

Truly evil characters don't tend to stick around in the Kirby-verse long. Kirby makes sure of that.

 

[fogbadge]

I've always been prepared for that kind of eventuality. Though at least ARMS doesn't have the most super-complex of character interactions anyways.

neither does bowser

Truly evil characters don't tend to stick around in the Kirby-verse long. Kirby makes sure of that.

ive seen that outside my window a number of times

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

https://venturebeat.com/2020/05/18/quartermann-e3-2020/

So yeah, in case it wasn't already obvious, any news for June will not come in a Direct at all.

 

[chocolatejr9]

https://venturebeat.com/2020/05/18/quartermann-e3-2020/

So yeah, in case it wasn't already obvious, any news for June will not come in a Direct at all.

Welp, that dream is dead. Now I kinda hope they DO announce FP7, since that could soften the blow...

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Truly evil characters don't tend to stick around in the Kirby-verse long. Kirby makes sure of that.

If Kirby can kill Majin Buu than he can kill anybody. Watch out bad guys, the true god of destruction will rip your *** in half if you mess **** up in his universe.

 

[chocolatejr9]

If Kirby can kill Majin Buu than he can kill anybody. Watch out bad guys, the true god of destruction will rip your *** in half if you mess **** up in his universe.

Sadly, people STILL insist that fight was wrong despite all the evidence in favor of Kirby winning.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

https://twitter.com/NinEverything/status/1262461017642041349

I suspect if anything either an shadow drop or an Sakurai presentation. Leaning more towards the latter.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Sadly, people STILL insist that fight was wrong despite all the evidence in favor of Kirby winning.

I believe Death Battle's math of the equation.

 

[smashkirby]

https://twitter.com/NinEverything/status/1262461017642041349

I suspect if anything either an shadow drop or an Sakurai presentation. Leaning more towards the latter.

As long as Nintendo announces beforehand that we're getting a Sakurai presentation... I mean, that's legit all I ask Nintendo to do.

 

[SmashChu]

I want to throw my hat into the ring and actually make a prediction. I think the ARMS character is going to be Min Min. Cliche, sure, but let me explain

• Popularity - This means a lot with DLC. If you are going to have people buy into the DLC, then it should be a character people like. While normally Smash goes with the poster boy (in this case, Spring Man), I think they'd focus on someone that fans would enjoy. Min Min was always popular and her winning the Party Crash gives her some claim to that title
• Kicking - This may seem random, but she is one of the few ARMS character that doesn't exclusively use her arms. Her kicks make it easy to implement her as a character and she doesn't have to rely solely on long reach, something a lot of characters do already.
• Uniqueness - This goes with the first one, but I think her Dragon Arms also helps her to feel more unique rather than really on her reach. This also allows Sakurai to include some of ARMS's charging mechanics and elements
• Bayonetta Glitch - In addition to all of this is the visual glitch on Bayonetta. Like other characters in the past, Bayo has a glitch where when she does a Smash attack under certain conditions, her costume doesn't change. Min Min could fit this as her Dragon Arm also changes part of her body like Bayo (I also believe Bayo's glitch is when she is hit. In ARMS, you lose the dragon arm when hit). I should note this has been noticed in other characters, Before Banjo was announced, some though a glitch on Duck Hunt meant Banjo and Kazzoie were going to be added. This ended up being true

So not a crazy out there prediction but I think she's got a real shot. Aside, but I'd be cool with anyone.

 

[kirbsmash]

a glitch on Duck Hunt meant Banjo and Kazzoie were going to be added

Was this an sd card problem?

 

[Koopaul]

As long as Nintendo announces beforehand that we're getting a Sakurai presentation... I mean, that's legit all I ask Nintendo to do.

I believe Sakurai is actually in charge of when and how these fighters are revealed. I don't think he'll shadow drop it. I've read interviews, he loves surprising everyone. Back in the Brawl days he was sad that secret characters got spoiled on Youtube. Now he's using that very platform to surprise everyone! So I don't think doing what they did with Paper Mario would match Sakurai's style. He'll give us the heads up and tell us to get ready for something special.

 

[smashkirby]

I believe Sakurai is actually in charge of when and how these fighters are revealed. I don't think he'll shadow drop it. I've read interviews, he loves surprising everyone. Back in the Brawl days he was sad that secret characters got spoiled on Youtube. Now he's using that very platform to surprise everyone! So I don't think doing what they did with Paper Mario would match Sakurai's style. He'll give us the heads up and tell us to get ready for something special.

Yeah, that was my point. Not trying to sound condescending, of course. Sakurai would probably go as far as taking it upon himself to tell us beforehand that a reveal was going to happen in the coming days. Also, Nintendo themselves pretty much know how the Smash fandom likes their surprises, so they'd also probably take the same initiative.

 

[fogbadge]

he loves surprising everyone.

hed be sad to know some of us stopped being surprised a while back

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Sadly, people STILL insist that fight was wrong despite all the evidence in favor of Kirby winning.

Death Battle in a nutshell right there.

I'm sure people are still aruging that Goku should've won despite two whole fights proving that Superman is way too ****ing OP.

Uniqueness - This goes with the first one, but I think her Dragon Arms also helps her to feel more unique rather than really on her reach. This also allows Sakurai to include some of ARMS's charging mechanics and elements

Because any character other than Min Min can't?

I can see all your other points, but this sticks out like a sore thumb because I don't see how Min Min is the only character who can have the charge mechanic implimented because of her Dragon Arm gimmick.

It's a pretty universal thing that could be put on anyone, even those with a gimmick that isn't connected to the charge mechanic.

...or maybe I'm reading too much into this?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Death Battle in a nutshell right there.

I'm sure people are still aruging that Goku should've won despite two whole fights proving that Superman is way too ****ing OP.


Because any character other than Min Min can't?

I can see all your other points, but this stick out like a sore thumb because I don't see how Min Min is the only character who can have the charge mechanic implimented. It's a pretty universal thing that could be put on anyone.

I think Smashchu is specifically referring to how her Dragon Arm stays charged after being powered up

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I think Smashchu is specifically referring to how her Dragon Arm stays charged after being powered up

... Yeah, I'm reading too much into this, I guess

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I want to throw my hat into the ring and actually make a prediction. I think the ARMS character is going to be Min Min. Cliche, sure, but let me explain

• Popularity - This means a lot with DLC. If you are going to have people buy into the DLC, then it should be a character people like. While normally Smash goes with the poster boy (in this case, Spring Man), I think they'd focus on someone that fans would enjoy. Min Min was always popular and her winning the Party Crash gives her some claim to that title
• Kicking - This may seem random, but she is one of the few ARMS character that doesn't exclusively use her arms. Her kicks make it easy to implement her as a character and she doesn't have to rely solely on long reach, something a lot of characters do already.
• Uniqueness - This goes with the first one, but I think her Dragon Arms also helps her to feel more unique rather than really on her reach. This also allows Sakurai to include some of ARMS's charging mechanics and elements
• Bayonetta Glitch - In addition to all of this is the visual glitch on Bayonetta. Like other characters in the past, Bayo has a glitch where when she does a Smash attack under certain conditions, her costume doesn't change. Min Min could fit this as her Dragon Arm also changes part of her body like Bayo (I also believe Bayo's glitch is when she is hit. In ARMS, you lose the dragon arm when hit). I should note this has been noticed in other characters, Before Banjo was announced, some though a glitch on Duck Hunt meant Banjo and Kazzoie were going to be added. This ended up being true

So not a crazy out there prediction but I think she's got a real shot. Aside, but I'd be cool with anyone.

Very interesting theory. But it's been confirmed I believe by the community that Ridley was being used as the base for Banjo & Kazooie and not Duck Hunt. Honestly to me it makes more sense Duck Hunt would be the base character used for them instead since they're a animal duo and Duck Hunt was crashing the game in All Star Smash right around the time before Banjo & Kazooie was revealed.

Was this an sd card problem?

No. If you played with Duck Hunt or Mii Swordfighter in All Star Smash around the time time the game was patched back in the first half of 2019, the game would crash and sometimes even corrupt saves files and memory storage on your Switch.

Death Battle in a nutshell right there.

I'm sure people are still aruging that Goku should've won despite two whole fights proving that Superman is way too ****ing OP.

I think Goku has more fire power with him and all other DBZ characters being able to blow up planets with ease while Superman is just a unstoppable defensible tank without using kryptonite against him. Superman won because of his insane stamina.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I believe Sakurai is actually in charge of when and how these fighters are revealed. I don't think he'll shadow drop it. I've read interviews, he loves surprising everyone. Back in the Brawl days he was sad that secret characters got spoiled on Youtube. Now he's using that very platform to surprise everyone! So I don't think doing what they did with Paper Mario would match Sakurai's style. He'll give us the heads up and tell us to get ready for something special.

Yeah, if anything it'll be on short notice like with . At least a day or two.

Very interesting theory. But it's been confirmed I believe by the community that Ridley was being used as the base for Banjo & Kazooie and not Duck Hunt. Honestly to me it makes more sense Duck Hunt would be the base character used for them instead since they're a animal duo and Duck Hunt was crashing the game in All Star Smash right around the time before Banjo & Kazooie was revealed.



No. If you played with Duck Hunt or Mii Swordfighter in All Star Smash around the time time the game was patched back in the first half of 2019, the game would crash and sometimes even corrupt saves files and memory storage on your Switch.



I think Goku has more fire power with him and all other DBZ characters being able to blow up planets with ease while Superman is just a unstoppable defensible tank without using kryptonite against him. Superman won because of his insane stamina.

Well, he does have wings. Maybe both DH and Ridley were used?

Magic can also weaken Superman, though admittedly Death Battle hasn't really exploited that so far.

As long as Nintendo announces beforehand that we're getting a Sakurai presentation... I mean, that's legit all I ask Nintendo to do.

I'm pretty sure that'll happen. Sakurai wouldn't appreciate them having the proverbial birthday gift already be open before people can even get a chance to unwrap it. Otherwise, how would it be a surprise?

hed be sad to know some of us stopped being surprised a while back

That's what happens when one expects everything and anything without knowing when it happens, specifically.

At least I'm still able to genuinely be surprised when I don't miss a stream (which is definitely going to happen less now, thankfully).

 

[fogbadge]

That's what happens when one expects everything and anything without knowing when it happens, specifically.

At least I'm still able to genuinely be surprised when I don't miss a stream (which is definitely going to happen less now, thankfully).

No I just don’t get surprised anymore

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Crazy to think this thread's been running since the Switch was properly announced and yet most of the posts happened in the last two months. Only 25 pages before we knew an ARMS character was certain.

 

[SmashChu]

Death Battle in a nutshell right there.

I'm sure people are still aruging that Goku should've won despite two whole fights proving that Superman is way too ****ing OP.


Because any character other than Min Min can't?

I can see all your other points, but this sticks out like a sore thumb because I don't see how Min Min is the only character who can have the charge mechanic implimented because of her Dragon Arm gimmick.

It's a pretty universal thing that could be put on anyone, even those with a gimmick that isn't connected to the charge mechanic.

...or maybe I'm reading too much into this?

My point is that the Dragon Arm also allows them to add the charging mechanics since you have to charge it up (either by holding Jump or Dash or getting a grab). Max Brass has this as well and could be added for the same reason, but I think there are multiple things going in her favor. Like I wouldn't have brought up the Bayo Glitch if that was the only thing.

Very interesting theory. But it's been confirmed I believe by the community that Ridley was being used as the base for Banjo & Kazooie and not Duck Hunt. Honestly to me it makes more sense Duck Hunt would be the base character used for them instead since they're a animal duo and Duck Hunt was crashing the game in All Star Smash right around the time before Banjo & Kazooie was revealed..

Unless you have a source I believe that is incorrect. It should be noted this happened with other characters, such as Byleth and Simon.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Crazy to think this thread's been running since the Switch was properly announced and yet most of the posts happened in the last two months. Only 25 pages before we knew an ARMS character was certain.

That's the Smash Effect for you. The same thing more or less happened with the thread.

No I just don’t get surprised anymore

Must be hard for folks to celebrate your birthday, then.

 

[fogbadge]

Must be hard for folks to celebrate your birthday, then.

we dont do surprise parties anyway

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Also...

Kicking - This may seem random, but she is one of the few ARMS character that doesn't exclusively use her arms. Her kicks make it easy to implement her as a character and she doesn't have to rely solely on long reach, something a lot of characters do already.

This argument is given more credit than I think we'd actually get to see in Smash.

Yes, Min Min can kick, but...

1. Some other characters could be given kicks as well and still have the overall moveset make sense. Ribbon Girl and Ninjara are good examples. Min Min is just the only case where a kick move can affect gameplay in ways other than being a kick, due to their use as a deflector in ARMS.
2. Given that the main thing about the moveset of any ARMS character would be the, well, ARMS, I don't expect a ton of rapid short-ranged moves, which is what Min Min's kicks would classify as. They'd be there, but they wouldn't be plentiful because giving a lot of short-range options to someone with great range can cause an unbalance.

Not that I don't think it's a bad idea. Just that Min Min would still have the vast majority of the moveset be based around the ARMS because the kicks, just like in ARMS, would be kept to a minimum.

And besides, if Sakurai chooses Min Min, I very much doubt her ability to kick would be a factor. It'd be because of her popularity and her Dragon Arm.

My point is that the Dragon Arm also allows them to add the charging mechanics since you have to charge it up (either by holding Jump or Dash or getting a grab). Max Brass has this as well and could be added for the same reason, but I think there are multiple things going in her favor. Like I wouldn't have brought up the Bayo Glitch if that was the only thing.

I will admit the Bayo glitch is a good point, but you just brought up Max Brass, so I'll point out that glitch argument is just as valid for him as it is for Min Min.

 

[GolisoPower]

I will admit the Bayo glitch is a good point, but you just brought up Max Brass, so I'll point out that glitch argument is just as valid for him as it is for Min Min.

I believe that Max Brass's charging seems more like a flat-out change in model-size as opposed to Min Min's arm, which seems more texture-based like the Bayonetta glitch was.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I believe that Max Brass's charging seems more like a flat-out change in model-size as opposed to Min Min's arm, which seems more texture-based like the Bayonetta glitch was.

Min Min's would be a change in model too.

It's much thicker than the noodle arms, has red spines, and honestly, the artwork really doesn't go a great job at showing that whatever ARM she has there is also much bigger in size.

It's still a model change, just for a specific limb rather than the whole body.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Reminder that Sakurai can easily fill a character's moveset, so that is not an issue in the slightest for any character. For example, the had even less to work with than the ARMS fighters, and he simply turned them into cryokenisis users. Can't pull the "lack of material" card against any specific ARMS fighters.

That said, Twintelle, Byte & Barq and Kid Cobra are on the RTC at the moment.

 

[Koopaul]

ARMS has tuns of material to work with if the fighter uses different glove types for different moves. Like what if the Down Smash was the Whammer, hitting the ground with a big thud. The Forward Smash is the Megaton, smashing straight through other attacks. And the Up Smash is the Cracker which realeases a flaming pop above the fighter.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Unless you have a source I believe that is incorrect. It should be noted this happened with other characters, such as Byleth and Simon.

I don't, but I have heard a few mods bringing it up that Ridley was used as a base for Banjo & Kazooie instead of Duck Hunt. I would ask the mods.

 

[Trevenant]

The glitches were weird to me. I'm no expert programmer but since there was no instance of these glitches before in SM4SH, they are unconfirmed and have never really made sense aside from piecing together the edges of a puzzle and leaving out the middle, it probably doesn't mean much. It's also worth noting that Byleth doesn't use the whip much in the moveset which is directly taken from Simon apart from up air and smash based on his up tilt but as they were remapped to those 2 moves, they weren't necessarily straight rips. IIRC the duck hunt glitch involved using down b specifically which also doesn't really relate to anything BK have in smash and mii swordfighter involved one of the attacks which involved charging forward which also doesn't really relate to Hero. I think that those attacks specifically would need to relate to something in order to actually mean anything as they started the glitch but they didn't so... I don't think they are worth taking too seriously

 

[RebelMaren]

This is coming from some one whose experimented on game code a bit and modded a little. a total laymen, so take it all with a pinch of salt (and if you need any I'm a Sonic main with a Tingle avatar so I have buckets of the stuff to spare).

I imagine if anyone would be based on Simon, it'd be the ARMS fighter. Ridley being the base for Banjo and Kazooie also makes alot more sense to me than Duck Hunt. I assume they would choose Ridley based on his weight and multi jumps.

If I remember correctly, the Bayonetta glitch was introduced at a time where no major changes were made to her. To me that suggests that the code handeling her transformations was something her scripts were referencing, rather than being part of her own data. If they had to change that data to accommodate a new fighter they could easily cause a hard to detect glitch on her moveset.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

This is coming from some one whose experimented on game code a bit and modded a little. a total laymen, so take it all with a pinch of salt (and if you need any I'm a Sonic main with a Tingle avatar so I have buckets of the stuff to spare).

I imagine if anyone would be based on Simon, it'd be the ARMS fighter. Ridley being the base for Banjo and Kazooie also makes alot more sense to me than Duck Hunt. I assume they would choose Ridley based on his weight and multi jumps.

If I remember correctly, the Bayonetta glitch was introduced at a time where no major changes were made to her. To me that suggests that the code handeling her transformations was something her scripts was referencing, rather than being part of her own data. If they had to change that data to accommodate a new fighter they could easily cause a hard to detect glitch on her moveset.

So who you think would most likely be used as a base for Shantae? I'm thinking Zelda if anybody.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

This is coming from some one whose experimented on game code a bit and modded a little. a total laymen, so take it all with a pinch of salt (and if you need any I'm a Sonic main with a Tingle avatar so I have buckets of the stuff to spare).

I imagine if anyone would be based on Simon, it'd be the ARMS fighter. Ridley being the base for Banjo and Kazooie also makes alot more sense to me than Duck Hunt. I assume they would choose Ridley based on his weight and multi jumps.

If I remember correctly, the Bayonetta glitch was introduced at a time where no major changes were made to her. To me that suggests that the code handeling her transformations was something her scripts was referencing, rather than being part of her own data. If they had to change that data to accommodate a new fighter they could easily cause a hard to detect glitch on her moveset.

I know there’s also a Ness glitch where his eyes disappear. If it IS a hint at someone...

I want to say Neku from TWEWY, but the Rayman copyright rumors... could Ness be a Rayman base?

Are they even the same height?

 

[RebelMaren]

So who you think would most likely be used as a base for Shantae? I'm thinking Zelda if anybody.

I've only played one of her games and I wasn't super into it but her moveset potential is really exciting imo. I don't really know who they'd use as a base. Maybe Zero Suit Samus.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I've only played one of her games and I wasn't super into it but her moveset potential is really exciting imo. I don't really know who they'd use as a base. Maybe Zero Suit Samus.

I thought of Zelda because of her ears being similar to Shantae's ears plus Zelda being a close body shape to Shantae. Than there is also the fact Zelda is a magic user as well even though that really would have nothing to do with it.

 

[RebelMaren]

I thought of Zelda because of her ears being similar to Shantae's ears plus Zelda being a close body shape to Shantae. Than there is also the fact Zelda is a magic user as well even though that really would have nothing to do with it.

We need someone who understands this stuff better than me I'm mostly relating all this to botched modding experiments over a decade ago. I wouldn't think ear shape or even moveset matters all that much. Try the picture the characters as just the skeletons rather than everything else on top of that, that's the way the designers have to see them.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

As I understand it bases are used to cut down on animation time by taking a character with similar animations and frame and modifying them. In Shantae's case, given she bounces around rhythmically she may be based of Peach and Daisy whereas an ARMS character would probably start with a scaled up Little Mac.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So, if someone were to use bases for Geno, would it be a combo of Ness and Mii Gunner, something like that?

 

[Guynamednelson]

As I understand it bases are used to cut down on animation time by taking a character with similar animations and frame and modifying them. In Shantae's case, given she bounces around rhythmically she may be based of Peach and Daisy whereas an ARMS character would probably start with a scaled up Little Mac.

It's most likely Little Mac+Spring Man AT. Spring Man's animations would be repurposed, but they still need someone with all the necessary code for a fighter.