Confirmed Character Discussion (Part 2)

[Buttcrust]

did anyone see kirby in that new trailer his up smash had like double the range and it look like he had a shorter short hop too , did they fix kirby????????

and meta knights repeated slashes looks hevenly broken and z zamas looked like the new shiek lol!!!! wario also looks slower than bowser but L cancleing can fix that now can it. pit and snake looked about mid tier

I agree with all of that.

Hum. Near the end of the video, when meta, snake, zamus and wario duke it off in meta's stage, you see Meta performing a front aerial (supposition) and when landing on the ground, he immediately rolls. Now I am sure he did not tech because he wouldn't have been able to perform an aerial in the first place. (getting hit downwards + performing aerial atk before touching the ground => no teching) And now this rolling of his didn't look like the previous WD-like movement he performed, sooo I came to the conclusion that they must've made WDing "official".

Maybe his u-b is a short teleport like Mewtwo's and he used that just before or upon landing. That's my only thoughts on it.

 

[Zink]

Could he have l-canceled the aerial and rolled immidiately?
Also, people have looked at the fast roll thing frame by frame, and it appears to be some kind of dodge, not a roll or a WD. Odd.

 

[T-major]

Could he have l-canceled the aerial and rolled immidiately?
Also, people have looked at the fast roll thing frame by frame, and it appears to be some kind of dodge, not a roll or a WD. Odd.

it's probably something new they added to gameplay, and all characters can do it. but only Metaknight's is the one we've seen. I think Sakurai said that they were inproving the air game, this might be part of it. rolling landings.

but on a side note... can anyone think of a purpose for crawling? if they make a crawl B move, thats the only purpse I could see it being (like Snake setting a mine or something). I guess that might work, but I would perfer grab B moves.

 

[Ipslne]

Could he have l-canceled the aerial and rolled immidiately?
Also, people have looked at the fast roll thing frame by frame, and it appears to be some kind of dodge, not a roll or a WD. Odd.

By the look of it I'd say it's just a quick air dodge before he lands. I mean, he doesn't seem to roll that far, and look at Bowser's air dodge... it might just be that crazy.

 

[Zink]

IIRC Pit also has a superdodge shown.

 

[Nightfang]

Metaknight is kinda like Pit, he probably is slower and has moves like a combination of link and kirby. Sword jabbing has been shown in the World video ^^

 

[Earthbound360]

I'm gonna use Pit. Pit for top tier.

 

[BentoBox]

Maybe his u-b is a short teleport like Mewtwo's and he used that just before or upon landing. That's my only thoughts on it.

The delay was simply too short to be his up+b. And Pit performs the same maneuver(WD) to quickly get behind wario. [1:13]

They(nintendo) might not call it the same way than we do, but I am definately sure that WDing will still be in the next sequel.

 

[Sensai]

The 'quick dodging' thing seems to me to be Nintendo's answer for WDing. To make it truly work, however, they'd have to make it so that you don't do it out of a shield. It looks like that's the case.

Metaknight is either gonna be increda-broken or increda-suck.

 

[Rhyme]

The 'quick dodging' thing seems to me to be Nintendo's answer for WDing. To make it truly work, however, they'd have to make it so that you don't do it out of a shield. It looks like that's the case.

Metaknight is either gonna be increda-broken or increda-suck.

Why not out of a shield? You can WD out of a shield in melee so why not brawl?

They have in melee L cancel then flick the c-stick and the game rolls on the first possible frame so mabye that is what happened. I can't imagine that they would get rid of teching, and if anything they should create less lag from teching so it will be easier to escape combos. With insane ariel battles we don't need 'wrong decision tech roll' combos.

What does broken mean?

EDIT: News? I went back and watched the video several times, at [1:59-2:00] it's the destructable Hyrule castle stage with the clouds, Snake short-hops very low and does what I believe is a Dair(he sticks his foot down). It destroys the platform beneath him and he falls but did anyone notice that it only took about 1/5 of a second to come out? It seems that spikes will be more reminiscent of smash 64, which could either be a good or a bad thing, but it certainly makes for easier spike finishes. He also suffers very little ending lag, but I guess this to be because destroying the platform cuts the animation short. Hopefully they leave meteor canceling in.

 

[Sensai]

What I meant was that if the quick dodge thing is only out of the shield, as in it replaces rolling, it won't be as useful as WDing, which can be done with or without shields.

 

[rsc_390]

EDIT: News? I went back and watched the video several times, at [1:59-2:00] it's the destructable Hyrule castle stage with the clouds, Snake short-hops very low and does what I believe is a Dair(he sticks his foot down). It destroys the platform beneath him and he falls but did anyone notice that it only took about 1/5 of a second to come out? It seems that spikes will be more reminiscent of smash 64, which could either be a good or a bad thing, but it certainly makes for easier spike finishes. He also suffers very little ending lag, but I guess this to be because destroying the platform cuts the animation short. Hopefully they leave meteor canceling in.

Just a note, I don't think that level is Hyrule Castle, but Pit's level, judging from the Greek Architecture. The indoor greek level might be another Pit level, or something else maybe.

Out of curiosity, if WDing and L-Canceling isn't in Brawl, will any of you guys stick with Melee?

 

[Sensai]

RSC: I imagine that regardless of whether L-Cancelling and WDing are there, MANY people will stay with Melee. Why? Because they're comfortable with it.

 

[Chi's Finest]

I'm just curious, in the first post it has 2 updates with link sources for each. ach of those links has nothing to do whatsoever with the update. Can anyone tell me an actual source of those updates?

 

[shinehex]

I think that Pit, LInk, and Metaknight are going to be the best characters.

 

[The Black Cat]

Why are you so certain that teching was not intentional? Have you ever seen Mew2King's smashsite? He gives very in-depth statistics on melee's physics and programming. Both here and in Doraki's DI and teching guide, it says that if you want to tech, press L or R within 20 frames of when you hit a wall, ceiling or floor, but after the initial hit lag. If you press it to early, teching will be disabled for the next 40 frames, probably to discourage people from pressing it as fast as they can to tech. Now why would there be so specific numbers if this was an accident?

Ok you mean where anyone could wall jump if you hit a wall? Yah that was intentional, so was edgehoging. Things like wavedashing weren't.

 

[Pikaluk]

Sicne the new video is out. FOX has been confirmed.

 

[Wendy Wu]

i think they shounld keep in everyone except GW and add in wart, new pokemon, and sonic/knuckles

 

[rsc_390]

Teching HAS to be intentional, since each character has their own unique teching animation (like Link using his shield against the ceilings/walls, and Mewtwo using his psychic powers to flip himself). In fact one day for kicks i'm going to go through every character's teching animation, b/c some of them are REALLY cool, and I want to see how they are all unique ^_^.

I think they should give Zelda her sword from Twilight Princess. That'd make her a great character lol (swords pwn!), and I think Young Link should be replaced with a Majora's Mask Link for more originality.

-------------------------------------------------

Looking at the crawling mechanic, could it maybe be useful for getting by projectile spammers? I'd love to be able to crawl under Samus's missiles + charge shot.

Also, if you consider that every character got a new major B move from SSB to Melee, what do you think for the possibilities of new special moves now?

Perhaps Link can use some of his Twilight Princess unique weapons! Also, could his other weapons be upgraded to their Twilight Princess level? (c'mon Gale Boomerang!!)

 

[T-major]

Teching HAS to be intentional, since each character has their own unique teching animation (like Link using his shield against the ceilings/walls, and Mewtwo using his psychic powers to flip himself). In fact one day for kicks i'm going to go through every character's teching animation, b/c some of them are REALLY cool, and I want to see how they are all unique ^_^.

I think they should give Zelda her sword from Twilight Princess. That'd make her a great character lol (swords pwn!), and I think Young Link should be replaced with a Majora's Mask Link for more originality.

-------------------------------------------------

Looking at the crawling mechanic, could it maybe be useful for getting by projectile spammers? I'd love to be able to crawl under Samus's missiles + charge shot.

Also, if you consider that every character got a new major B move from SSB to Melee, what do you think for the possibilities of new special moves now?

Perhaps Link can use some of his Twilight Princess unique weapons! Also, could his other weapons be upgraded to their Twilight Princess level? (c'mon Gale Boomerang!!)

I would personaly like to see grab B moves.

 

[rsc_390]

Now that I think of it, Gale Boomerang might be better as an item, because of its potential usefulness.

They could make it work the same way it does in Twilight Princess, picking up items in its whirlwind and transporting them elsewhere.

You could use it to retreive items from afar (or mid-air projectiles), and pick up items (like bombs) and send them into an enemy!

 

[BentoBox]

I think that Pit, LInk, and Metaknight are going to be the best characters.

We've seen so much of Link that I couldn't agree more.

 

[Sensai]

RSC: I imagine Zelda and Link will be updated to fit this whole TP that I keep hearing about. /sarcasm

This is where the conversations concerning Sheik and her remaining come in.

I would like to see Y Link transferred into cel-shaded Link. Whether or not this is possible to do (cel shaded on a normal background, etc), I haven't the slightest idea.

 

[gamerkid789]

all the new charcters all look like there good but meta knight is awsome,the new fox looks like he has a tumor in his head lol, cel shaded link would be cool,("out with the old and in with the new!")

 

[gamerkid789]

Teching HAS to be intentional, since each character has their own unique teching animation (like Link using his shield against the ceilings/walls, and Mewtwo using his psychic powers to flip himself). In fact one day for kicks i'm going to go through every character's teching animation, b/c some of them are REALLY cool, and I want to see how they are all unique ^_^.

I think they should give Zelda her sword from Twilight Princess. That'd make her a great character lol (swords pwn!), and I think Young Link should be replaced with a Majora's Mask Link for more originality.

-------------------------------------------------

Looking at the crawling mechanic, could it maybe be useful for getting by projectile spammers? I'd love to be able to crawl under Samus's missiles + charge shot.

Also, if you consider that every character got a new major B move from SSB to Melee, what do you think for the possibilities of new special moves now?

Perhaps Link can use some of his Twilight Princess unique weapons! Also, could his other weapons be upgraded to their Twilight Princess level? (c'mon Gale Boomerang!!)

i dont think they changed kirby,mario,link,and pika at all the looked the same to me had the same b moves had the same attacks

 

[evilganstapikachu]

donkey

donkey kong been annouced 2 at www.gamespot.com no pic but they say hes in

 

[Zink]

Noob. Link to the article and show real proof. I doubt DK is confirmed if he wasn't in the trailer.

 

[Ipslne]

I understand that confirmation requires some sort of proof... but why are you guys so bent on what the trailers have to show? Why can't we go by interviews and whatnot?

 

[icymatt]

Because the interviews so far have revealed a combined total of...nothing.

 

[rsc_390]

i dont think they changed kirby,mario,link,and pika at all the looked the same to me had the same b moves had the same attacks

It would be foolish for them not to add anything to the B moves, as they did in the transition from SSB to Melee. Also, the videos don't prove anything, since there can be later videos to show their newer moves, or they may just not be shown until the game comes out. If only what was in the videos was in the game, the game would be very lacking (8-10 characters? c'mon!). Obviously there is more to be revealed in media, and more to be revealed when the game is released. New moves (they don't necesarily have to be B moves) for the returning characters is pretty much guarenteed along with the improved engine, to help the experience of playing them feel fresh.

 

[Rhyme]

I guessed that the castle level with distructable platforms was Link's only because of the texturing similarities between Hyrule temple in melee and that level. Plus the Battlefield-like level(one shown first in NWT) looks like a better fit for Pit anyway. But my point was the return of quick spikes rather than charging them, unless Snake happens to be like Marth who has a quick one in melee.

Crawling would be an excelent answer to projectile spamers, maybe the quick rolling is the answer to tilt abusers? I still don't like how quick it is but nothing can be done about that now can it?

I would personally love to see crawling as a mechanic in platform style gameplay throughout the in-depth one player mode Nintendo promised. Also an attack that can only be done by crawling would be nice.

You mean grab B moves like Bowser's over B? Or like Falcon's upB? Why would you want different grabbing moves when you can already throw your opponent in all 4 compas directions?

Why is everyone already declaring which characters will be good or where they will be on the tier? Tier placement is impossible without playing the game, and any given character might have some fatal flaw like a poor sweetspot that will instantly make him/her a hardly used character. Even so, there should be at least 30 other characters joining the game besides those mentioned so why are we picking from 10?

 

[icymatt]

The stage with the destructable platforms is Pit's. Not only does it look the part, but you can see a statue of Palutena in the background.

 

[Rhyme]

The stage with the destructable platforms is Pit's. Not only does it look the part, but you can see a statue of Palutena in the background.

Ok, fine, I have never played a game with Pit(I think there was only one) so I wouldn't have recognized the statue. I was wrong, it was Pit's level. Now can we focus on the actual topic of my post please?

I was defining the level so everyone would know what to look for in case their time counters on the video weren't working properly. But the purpose of the post was to state that it appears as though spikes and meteors will have less startup and ending lag. I didn't see anyone else mention this so thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[Mr.bob]

So who are th confirmed characters so far

 

[icymatt]

So who are th confirmed characters so far

Mario
Link
Kirby
Pikachu
Fox
Samus
Meta-Knight
Pit
Zero-Suit Samus
Wario
Snake

 

[T-major]

You mean grab B moves like Bowser's over B? Or like Falcon's upB? Why would you want different grabbing moves when you can already throw your opponent in all 4 compas directions?

no, not like those. I mean you could grab somone like you normaly would with Z, then press B to do an attack related to the character useing it. think A attacks with grabing, but you can only do one at a time (after you use it, you would let go of the opponent, and push them away), it would be stronger, and it would have different effects then normal A attacks. for example.... giving Luigi his Thunder hand attack from Mario & Luigi. he would grab someone then put his hand near them, and a ball of electicity would form on his hand, hitting the opponent (maybe multiple times?) I think it would be a good idea, but they might give the new B move (if any) to the crawl. but we don't know how to do the crawl, it might be slow to use it. if so then I think grab B attacks would be better. since they would be faster.

 

[Rhyme]

no, not like those. I mean you could grab somone like you normaly would with Z, then press B to do an attack related to the character useing it. think A attacks with grabing, but you can only do one at a time (after you use it, you would let go of the opponent, and push them away), it would be stronger, and it would have different effects then normal A attacks. for example.... giving Luigi his Thunder hand attack from Mario & Luigi. he would grab someone then put his hand near them, and a ball of electicity would form on his hand, hitting the opponent (maybe multiple times?) I think it would be a good idea, but they might give the new B move (if any) to the crawl. but we don't know how to do the crawl, it might be slow to use it. if so then I think grab B attacks would be better. since they would be faster.

Ooh, I gotcha. Yeah that would be so awesome. I played Superstar Saga, and I agree that, not so much Mario, but deff. Luigi should be pulling some moves from that game. They could make it like, press and hold B, and build up a ball of electricity that doesn't hurt them the entire time. Then when you see fit, release B and shock them away. This makes the attack somewhat of a gamble, because you only get one hit, but the longer you charge it, the greater the chance that your opponent breaks free and you loose the attack. Instead of the 'poke' Fsmash Luigi has now, he should get a ball of thunder like Mario's ball of fire(which has the same graphics as the Saga fireball IMO). I would also love to see some attack items being used by either Mario or Luigi(from Partners in Time).

I've always wanted to be able to grab with Samus, then shoot my opponent with whatever I had charged in my gun from point blank range. It's just screams "IN YOUR FACE!"

EDIT: I know no one likes to believe me on this, but it happens twice so I think we should take note. In the E3 trailer around 57 seconds, metaknight does a spike in-between midair jumps(hence no lag). Snake does it in the NWT around 1 min 59 seconds when he shorthops and does one and it comes out almost instantly, then no ending lag animation. Seems to me like quick spikes are the way to go.

Also, while watching the E3, Link does his pogo attack to Mario in the FE level and doesn't bounce. Everyone remembers that, but did anyone notice that, while he was executing the attack, the spot right at the tip of the handle sparkled at the instant the attack became active? This happens with a few characters such as Falcon, Ness, DK, etc., where the attack sparkles to show the sweetspot, then continues to be active, and it has a different effect durring the sweetspot. Well I conclude that it spikes opponents at the sweetspot like Y. Link's does in melee, and Y. Link will have that move changed. I don't know to what, though.

 

[gwyne]

fox is so ugly

 

[T-major]

Ooh, I gotcha. Yeah that would be so awesome. I played Superstar Saga, and I agree that, not so much Mario, but deff. Luigi should be pulling some moves from that game. They could make it like, press and hold B, and build up a ball of electricity that doesn't hurt them the entire time. Then when you see fit, release B and shock them away. This makes the attack somewhat of a gamble, because you only get one hit, but the longer you charge it, the greater the chance that your opponent breaks free and you loose the attack. Instead of the 'poke' Fsmash Luigi has now, he should get a ball of thunder like Mario's ball of fire(which has the same graphics as the Saga fireball IMO). I would also love to see some attack items being used by either Mario or Luigi(from Partners in Time).

I've always wanted to be able to grab with Samus, then shoot my opponent with whatever I had charged in my gun from point blank range. It's just screams "IN YOUR FACE!"

I like your idea, for charging the thunder hand for more damage. it fits the move. and I've wanted to do that with Samus for... I don't know how long! it would be awsome if you could do that!

the only problem with the grab B moves, is that alot of characters would be hard to think of moves for. I can only think up moves for a few characters, and there not that good. but I'm sure if they did include them, they could think up something good for each character.

 

[JHoLLa]

are'nt you missing fox? he was in the latest trailer