Confirmed Character Discussion (Part 2)

[hotstuff]

CUT = Character Update Thursday

And an assailable Meta Knight is the best kind of Meta Knight. :bigthumbu

CUTuesday works too, OMG! You meant to do that O_O lol

I LOVE BALANCE THIS GAME RULES!

Pit though, hm? Light weight is his weakness I'm sure. Him and MK hopefully have mediocer KO ability. Look at Pits Fair and Uair and MKs Dair and Bair in that E3 clip of them chasing eachother in the air. Total pwnage. that's a great clip haha

Bowser is probably impossible to knock off haha! And fox probably needs like 2 hits HA!

GO DYCE! lol

 

[Rhyme]

And an assailable Meta Knight is the best kind of Meta Knight. :bigthumbu

MK's a good start, but an assailable Marth = my wet dream.

I'm lost on this CUT thing

HE CAN BE BEAT!

Lol, glad to see you've been properly informed by the genius behind CUTing's creator.

-Checks counterpicking MK off list-

You meant to do that O_O lol

I LOVE BALANCE THIS GAME RULES!

Bowser is probably impossible to knock off haha! And fox probably needs like 2 hits HA!

GO DYCE! lol

Probably.

Yup, balance is nice. Heart-eyed smileys are best enjoyed in moderation.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Bowser winds up being one heavy mother this instalment. And Fox...well he's already about the fourth lightest character in the game. How light do you want him, exactly? Pfft...hotstuff likes lightweights- What?

Agreed.

3) The Santa Clause is a Tim Allen movie. (Ar-ar-ar-ar-arrr!)

And that's a good find Rhyme. I'll bet some of Meta's attacks, most likely the quickest ones that come from the middle of combos, will have no knockback at all but will just be used for damage (ala Fox's Laser).

Oh, and I just joined the Computer/Video Game Club at college today.
AND GUESS WHAT GAME THEY WERE PLAYING AT THE RECRUITMENT STAND!!! BWAHAHAHA!!! I PWND ALL!!!

Hah! Good catch.

Thanks, but I'm sure dozens of people noticed before I did. It just hadn't been said in this topic yet. What you say makes perfect sense, too.

Ooohh...niiice. Wish there were Meleeers at my college. That's right, Aeris, I made up a word and put three consecutive vowels in it.

The tournament viability of Battleship Halberd is still up in the air. None of the hazards sound like anything that couldn't be easily avoided with a little extra attention. And, knowing how adroit the Smash Upper Crust Kids (S.U.C.K.) are, the double-barreled battery shouldn't pose much of a problem.

I never realized just how heavy Yoshi was. But good for him; he needs a good boost in abilities!

ZOMG! You referenced my CUTing humor? I'm touched, Rhyme. I agree, though, that this week is in dire need of a boost that only CUTing could bring. CUT for Lucas! CUT for Claus! CUT for the Animal Crossing character! CUT!

Yeah, I probably over-reacted. If stages like Onett and Rainbow Cruise are counterpick stages than who am I to judge. It's just that when I first saw the update, I thought Princess Peach's Castle and Mute City combined. You don't want your opponent throwing/knocking you into level hazards, and you don't wanna have to focus on avoiding said hazards while fighting. So I'll say MAYBE a counterpick stage, but certainly not a neutral stage, not by any conventions.

Yup, he does need boosted abilities. Smash64 Yoshi was where it was at.

Why not, it was good humor which I thought highly appropriate for the situation.

EDIT: Wow, I said way back in November, right after the NWT was released, that MK wouldn't be top tier, but probably middle tier. If our most recent assessment happens to be correct, then I SO called that. ^^ I'm gonna be feeling proud of myself for the next ten seconds.

 

[Masque]

Oh, and I just joined the Computer/Video Game Club at college today.
AND GUESS WHAT GAME THEY WERE PLAYING AT THE RECRUITMENT STAND!!! BWAHAHAHA!!! I PWND ALL!!!

Congrats on the intense pwnage, my friend!

MK's a good start, but an assailable Marth = my wet dream.

Ooohh...niiice. Wish there were Meleeers at my college. That's right, Aeris, I made up a word and put three consecutive vowels in it.

EDIT: Wow, I said way back in November, right after the NWT was released, that MK wouldn't be top tier, but probably middle tier. If our most recent assessment happens to be correct, then I SO called that. ^^ I'm gonna be feeling proud of myself for the next ten seconds.

Ugh, Marth. With the new GIANT TURNIP (henceforth "the ZOMGTURNIP"), though, Peach might have a better chance at getting inside, especially if it's big enough to negate his blade. :bigthumbu Then again, we might not even have to worry about Marth in Brawl, so (possible) moot point.

I wish I knew some "Meleeers" at college! Since it's already in possession of two consecutive e's, I see no need to add a third, but kudos to you and your creative mind!

Sakurai's modesty about his own creations + low knockback = mid-tier MK. That sounds about right to me. Such a revelation deserves a full 15 seconds of self-congratulation, though: you deserve it.

 

[Repryx]

Hmm If it isnt a CUT tomorrow I may pull a twilight_hero and Hadouken Spin Mr. Sakurai...BTW Sakurai=2 days

 

[Dynamism]

CUTuesday works too, OMG! You meant to do that O_O lol

I LOVE BALANCE THIS GAME RULES!

Pit though, hm? Light weight is his weakness I'm sure. Him and MK hopefully have mediocer KO ability. Look at Pits Fair and Uair and MKs Dair and Bair in that E3 clip of them chasing eachother in the air. Total pwnage. that's a great clip haha

Bowser is probably impossible to knock off haha! And fox probably needs like 2 hits HA!

GO DYCE! lol

yes...balance

MK's a good start, but an assailable Marth = my wet dream.

With Kirby and you've found mine lol

I wish I knew some "Meleeers" at college! Since it's already in possession of two consecutive e's, I see no need to add a third, but kudos to you and your creative mind!

Sakurai's modesty about his own creations + low knockback = mid-tier MK. That sounds about right to me. Such a revelation deserves a full 15 seconds of self-congratulation, though: you deserve it.

That is good with the 3 e's. It adds character lol
I don't know any local meleeers at all
I fought a few from out of town but that's about it.

low knockback may not be enough for MK to be demoted o_0 oh...my...
I'd give yourself 12 seconds and wait for news about Yoshis heavy weight-ness before the final 3. Just to be safe lol

MY THOUGHTS
- Mario may be the most balanced yet cheap character around. The flag was never truely fully appreciated and now FLUUD? don't fall off when fighting Mario lol I'm liking the moved tornado though. This opens up lots of possibilities for other character variations as well. Kudos M! And ofcourse, a Doc altern for his fans, he carries on the Fair trait well.

- Link was the most underrated meleeer(lol). I truely beleive he was top tier. I know, "it's not possible" lol. Look on youtube Link vs whoever...Link pwns at full potential. He's just much harder to use at full potential than someone like Fox. Now with these ajustments, the arrow becomes a greater factor to add to his already great arsenal of fire-power. His Dair lost the bounce so an L-cancled Dair will be even quicker to recover from. People complained about lag...well this will help more than it seems. Link will be tough to beat (and truely be) and of course, n00b usage spamed lol

- Wario will be frowned upon but I think he'll be as good as any. G&W is a pain to fight and his weakness, light weight! Wario is heavier and can possibly KO better. He'll be a greater threat than he appears. We still don't know what he plays like but the biting thing was used of the ground and in the air so that may be his B. I personally think a slam would fit his character well. An inflation for a bit of floating into a slam, possibly at a slight angle too (just to add to his odd-ness (and it's not yet a trait in ssb). UpB Flop and DownB Waft. Waft and Flop Char Speciff Advance Tech lol

- Kirby is my favorite in melee but he sucked. I can't stand being him when fighting good players cause he's useless, (for the most part). I guess that's why I always played as him for a challenge. He needs a better stone, more sucking range, faster hammer, a forward and back throw that CAN'T be pulled out and higher reach when he's floating to the edge. For some reason his arms shrink? o_0 Kirby needs GLORY!

- Pickachu was underrated as well. The best way for him be get attention would be an UpB with no lag before or after the attack. He's quick, agile and small (aka tough to knee lol) He'll be good in this trilogy yet.

- Fox will be worse inevitably. With the game slowing, this eliminates much of the mind gaming speed of his attack. That'll soften him up plenty and I'm sure his UpSmash won't be as leathel either. It's almost a given that he'll be nerfed, only slightly, Only slightly.

- Smaus was a regular long range KOer. This was great and complemented her high knockback priority DownSmash boot. She coould survive from almost anywhere off the platform with bombs, grapple and huge jumping action. When well played, she won't let anyone get to her, let alone KO her. Samus is a force and is coming back in what looks like the same general format. She had less of an animation change than all but Kirby. If she doesn't change her style much, with the game slowing and becoming more air mobile, she'll only be better suited. (no pun intended ala Zamus lol)

- Zero Suit Samus is rumoured to be the Sheik replacement. If so, it makes sense and she has similar style thus far. With this tether as her main recovery, maybe her DownB will be that down kick in the 2nd trailor and it acts like Ganons DB. And with her lazer, she may be the next to posess a short hop laser capability. She will definately be instantly fun to play as and possibly easily mastered. Combo girl confirmed!

I'll do the rest of my thought's later. I'm tired lol nap tap *zing*

Edit: 1 grand lol

 

[Rhyme]

That is good with the 3 e's. It adds character lol
I don't know any local meleeers at all
I fought a few from out of town but that's about it.

low knockback may not be enough for MK to be demoted o_0 oh...my...
I'd give yourself 12 seconds and wait for news about Yoshis heavy weight-ness before the final 3. Just to be safe lol

Indeed.

Awe...that sucks.

Hm...one person suggests 15 seconds, another 12, and myself 10. I'll take a healthy average, +ego bonus, -low self esteem penalty...=10 seconds.

Oh, and I took the liberty of sumarizing your thoughts on the reviewed characters. I'd consider this reader's digest version to be fairly accurate.

- Mario: Potentially cheap, got an overhaul.

- Link: Underrated, spammed by n00bs, needed better projectiles.

- Kirby: Favorite, almost everything about him sucked. In fact, only thing that didn't was that he's still Kirby. KIRBY...PREPARE FOR GLORY!

- Pickachu: Underappreciated.

- Fox: Very nearly nerfed beyond all reason.

Lemme know if I did a good job.

Hmm If it isnt a CUT tomorrow I may pull a twilight_hero and Hadouken Spin Mr. Sakurai...BTW Sakurai=2 days

Haha, you make that countdown sound so ominous. When I first heard that on...when was it that you started the countdown...Sunday night?..I was like "OK, kinda unnecessary." It couldn't be more appreciated right now, though. Take notes, Mr. Sakurai.

Ugh, Marth. With the new GIANT TURNIP (henceforth "the ZOMGTURNIP"), though, Peach might have a better chance at getting inside, especially if it's big enough to negate his blade. :bigthumbu Then again, we might not even have to worry about Marth in Brawl, so (possible) moot point.

I wish I knew some "Meleeers" at college! Since it's already in possession of two consecutive e's, I see no need to add a third, but kudos to you and your creative mind!

Sakurai's modesty about his own creations + low knockback = mid-tier MK. That sounds about right to me. Such a revelation deserves a full 15 seconds of self-congratulation, though: you deserve it.

Lol, I did go on a rant a while back about how Marth wouldn't be in Brawl. However, I was actually refering to Melee Marth not potential-Brawl-Marth. I'm not taking the words of Mr. Sakurai lightly.

"To be honest, there are a LOT of characters that offer a slightly different flavor this time around. If you think they’re all going to be the same as they have been, it’ll be rough for you."

Well, I'll agree that the third "e" isn't required, but I like to think Melee-ers are people who play Melee, just as "support-ers" are people who...well you get my point? Makes sense in my mind. ^^

Heh, Mr. Sakurai sure is modest. Doesn't matter how long I should be feeling good about myself anyway, that time would be up by now unless it was more than a couple hours.

 

[Dynamism]

I added Wario Zamus and Samus, editing, I totally forgot New Comers lol

Edit: yes good job...just noticed, i didn't say Link needed better projectiles. They were amazing and now are better. but yeah,

Edit: ps Marth unlockable...also...new Pichu = Marth. Just for redemtion lol

Edit:

- Pit is almost at a top tier broken state if it weren't for his seemingly lightweight. He may have the best recovery available and with arrow-like lazers for a ranged weapon, he'll have to be approached quickly. He has the sword for priority and has speed to go with it. He's an angel so he's bound to have some sort of sheilding/reflective move as a DownB. This may bring him over the top. If his KO ability is on the mild side, balanced he will be (lol I wonder if Platuna speaks to him like Yoda haha). At least his hitboxes aren't Marth-like massive so he won't be the new ridiculous Tip-man.

 

[Fawriel]

For some reason I can't be bothered to read all that.

But mark my words:

Metaknight will be mediocre and Pit will be cool but close to Melee Mewtwo in vulnerability.

Controversial! \o/

...and that's all.

 

[Masque]

Lol, I did go on a rant a while back about how Marth wouldn't be in Brawl. However, I was actually refering to Melee Marth not potential-Brawl-Marth. I'm not taking the words of Mr. Sakurai lightly.

"To be honest, there are a LOT of characters that offer a slightly different flavor this time around. If you think they’re all going to be the same as they have been, it’ll be rough for you."

Well, I'll agree that the third "e" isn't required, but I like to think Melee-ers are people who play Melee, just as "support-ers" are people who...well you get my point? Makes sense in my mind. ^^

Heh, Mr. Sakurai sure is modest. Doesn't matter how long I should be feeling good about myself anyway, that time would be up by now unless it was more than a couple hours.

Oh, that was actually what I meant--that Marth wouldn't be in Brawl. Curse my ambiguous writing! I love that Sakurai quote because it offers so much hope for all of the characters to be better than they are, save those who need nerfing *cough*FOX*cough*.

Best way to nerf Fox, IMO? No damage shine! :bigthumbu (Or, better yet, one that has no effect on opponents, only projectiles).

For some reason I can't be bothered to read all that.

But mark my words:

Metaknight will be mediocre and Pit will be cool but close to Melee Mewtwo in vulnerability.

Controversial! \o/

...and that's all.

Bold statement, my friend! Please elaborate: I'm especially interested in your thoughts on Pit.

 

[Rhyme]

yes good job...just noticed, i didn't say Link needed better projectiles. They were amazing and now are better. but yeah,

I'm not sure how Pit's gonna be balanced yet, but he probably will be. Not initially because many people will play as him, but later on he'll drop to middle tier like Luigi.

Ah, I thought originally you said they needed to be upgraded, not that they were upgraded. My bad.

Oh, that was actually what I meant--that Marth wouldn't be in Brawl. Curse my ambiguous writing!No damage shine! :bigthumbu (Or, better yet, one that has no effect on opponents, only projectiles).

Nope, I understood you just fine the first time. I thought you misunderstood me so I elaborated further.

Hah, the shine indeed. Strange that the space animals are the only ones who can shield in midair (Reflector is a shield by all the game's counts). If Fox (and Falco assuming he's in Brawl) couldn't jump out of a shine in midair then it'd probably be a balanced move. Or at least I think it would be...it was in Smash64 and that was the only noticable difference (couldn't jump out of it on the ground either). Other than that...weaken Fox's Usmash, Dsmash and Uair and we have a balanced character.

 

[Fawriel]

Aww, I didn't want to elaborate. =<

MK's range isn't THAT hot, he's floaty and probably won't be close to Jiggly's current aerial mobility. He has extremely fast attacks that hit multiple times. Seems to be mostly usable for building damage, especially if some of his hits really have no knockback! And if his smashes involve multi-hits, he'll suffer majorly against an enemy who can DI.
Not to mention that he probably can't control how many slashes he does per attack, so once he started attacking, if he whiffs, he leaves himself open.
His movement speed seems average to fast, nothing extremely noteworthy. If I recall correctly, he has no projectiles. And he'll be relatively lightweight because he's still just a Kirby-type thing with a helmet and a sword.
All of this speaks for him being a vacuum-less Kirby with inbuilt pwnsword and attacks with probably little knockback that reduce him to few finishers...

All of this is mere speculation, but I really don't see why everyone praises MK's fighting prowess already. I don't even find the multi-slices very cool. =P

Pit... well, not much to say. He seems like a more balanced fast-slicer with lots of options and probably some more power in his arms.
But he'll probably be quite light... and floatiness is practically a given. And his recovery, while versatile, is probably quite slow as well. All these along with the fact that he's not exactly tiny like Kirby point towards him being quite vulnerable.

Remember, everyone thought Mewtwo would be overpowered. *snaps finger*

 

[Rhyme]

*snaps finger*

And how! Nicely said.

 

[smashbot226]

Yea..

It seems like most of the new chars are medium or below in sizes. Charizard and Wario are possibly the only newcomers with a heavy weight. So...

My summary of the new fellas:

Meta Knight:

+: Has fast and powerful attacks, takes advantage of gliding, and has multijump capabilities.

-: Has no projectiles, lightweight and therefore, may be easy to toss of the stage.

Overall: 7/10 HE seems promising with an excellent moveset, but lets not rush to conclusions...


Pit:
+: Aimable projectile, a glider, and insane recovery possibility.
-: His FS looks kind of bad compared to others and he is lightweight, but bigger than the others.

Overall: 8/10 While definitely a favorite among many, he may have a few problems in the game, like his FS for example...


Zamus:
+: Has a freaking whip, fast looking, and hot to trot.
-: Will she suffer the same fate as the other weak females of Peach/Zelda?

Overall: ?/10 The only reason she is unscorable is her mysteriousness, in which I mean that we have absolutely no idea of what her char is.


Wario:

+: Seems powerful, his motorcycle move is promising, and if Wario Waft is aerial-able, think of the possibilities...
-: Slow, has poor range, and IMO, his nose is disgusting...

Overall: 4/10 Why? Because without speed or range, his power is meaningless.


Ike:

+: B-Up is partly invincible, powerful, and just plain awesome.
-: May have the same problems as Marth; no projectile, sort of slow, etc.

Overall: 8/ 10 I love Fire Emblem and Ike has much potential as a top tier.


PKMN Trainer:

+: Three unique movesets, variety, and Charizard/Ivysaur have good recovery.
-: The stamina effect sounds risky, the Trainer doesn't even fight, and Squirtle and possibly Ivysaur are lightweigths.

Overall: 7/10 For three movesets and a number of combo possibilities, can it make up for the fact of the stamina effect? We'll find out...


Diddy:

+: A projectile, an aimable B-Up move, and seems to have excellent aerial.
-: Seems weak, is lightweight, and his B moves have fifty percent chance of messing up.

Overall: 6/10 His rocketbarrels can't save him from his lightness and strength deprivation.

 

[Masque]

Aww, I didn't want to elaborate. =<

MK's range isn't THAT hot, he's floaty and probably won't be close to Jiggly's current aerial mobility. He has extremely fast attacks that hit multiple times. Seems to be mostly usable for building damage, especially if some of his hits really have no knockback! And if his smashes involve multi-hits, he'll suffer majorly against an enemy who can DI.
Not to mention that he probably can't control how many slashes he does per attack, so once he started attacking, if he whiffs, he leaves himself open.
His movement speed seems average to fast, nothing extremely noteworthy. If I recall correctly, he has no projectiles. And he'll be relatively lightweight because he's still just a Kirby-type thing with a helmet and a sword.
All of this speaks for him being a vacuum-less Kirby with inbuilt pwnsword and attacks with probably little knockback that reduce him to few finishers...

All of this is mere speculation, but I really don't see why everyone praises MK's fighting prowess already. I don't even find the multi-slices very cool. =P

Pit... well, not much to say. He seems like a more balanced fast-slicer with lots of options and probably some more power in his arms.
But he'll probably be quite light... and floatiness is practically a given. And his recovery, while versatile, is probably quite slow as well. All these along with the fact that he's not exactly tiny like Kirby point towards him being quite vulnerable.

Remember, everyone thought Mewtwo would be overpowered. *snaps finger*

I couldn't really care less about MK, but it's interesting to see someone else's reasoning behind negating the hype. I agree with your speculation, though.

Pit's seems faster than Mewtwo in both movement and attack speed, which will in turn (hopefully) counter some of that supposed vulnerability. I just love Pit too much to see him faced with the Mewtwo conundrum.

*music reference ahoy!*

 

[Kirby knight]

Wario:

+: Seems powerful, his motorcycle move is promising, and if Wario Waft is aerial-able, think of the possibilities...
-: Slow, has poor range, and IMO, his nose is disgusting...

Overall: 4/10 Why? Because without speed or range, his power is meaningless.

Hmm...

Ike:

+: B-Up is partly invincible, powerful, and just plain awesome.
-: May have the same problems as Marth; no projectile, sort of slow, etc.

Overall: 8/ 10 I love Fire Emblem and Ike has much potential as a top tier.

Yeah I see no overly bias opinion here.

Diddy:

+: A projectile, an aimable B-Up move, and seems to have excellent aerial.
-: Seems weak, is lightweight, and his B moves have fifty percent chance of messing up.

Overall: 6/10 His rocketbarrels can't save him from his lightness and strength deprivation.

When was it stated that Diddy Kong's moves have a 50% chance of backfiring; because that's not what Sakurai said on the site.

I don't think they you can begin to judge character; let alone those that didn't even have any gameplay vids (Diddy and Ike ). I mean Diddy could be Top and Ike could be bottom tier for all you know.

-Knight

 

[Knyaguy]

Yea..

It seems like most of the new chars are medium or below in sizes. Charizard and Wario are possibly the only newcomers with a heavy weight. So...

My summary of the new fellas:

Meta Knight:

+: Has fast and powerful attacks, takes advantage of gliding, and has multijump capabilities.

-: Has no projectiles, lightweight and therefore, may be easy to toss of the stage.

Overall: 7/10 HE seems promising with an excellent moveset, but lets not rush to conclusions...


Pit:
+: Aimable projectile, a glider, and insane recovery possibility.
-: His FS looks kind of bad compared to others and he is lightweight, but bigger than the others.

Overall: 8/10 While definitely a favorite among many, he may have a few problems in the game, like his FS for example...


Zamus:
+: Has a freaking whip, fast looking, and hot to trot.
-: Will she suffer the same fate as the other weak females of Peach/Zelda?

Overall: ?/10 The only reason she is unscorable is her mysteriousness, in which I mean that we have absolutely no idea of what her char is.


Wario:

+: Seems powerful, his motorcycle move is promising, and if Wario Waft is aerial-able, think of the possibilities...
-: Slow, has poor range, and IMO, his nose is disgusting...

Overall: 4/10 Why? Because without speed or range, his power is meaningless.


Ike:

+: B-Up is partly invincible, powerful, and just plain awesome.
-: May have the same problems as Marth; no projectile, sort of slow, etc.

Overall: 8/ 10 I love Fire Emblem and Ike has much potential as a top tier.


PKMN Trainer:

+: Three unique movesets, variety, and Charizard/Ivysaur have good recovery.
-: The stamina effect sounds risky, the Trainer doesn't even fight, and Squirtle and possibly Ivysaur are lightweigths.

Overall: 7/10 For three movesets and a number of combo possibilities, can it make up for the fact of the stamina effect? We'll find out...


Diddy:

+: A projectile, an aimable B-Up move, and seems to have excellent aerial.
-: Seems weak, is lightweight, and his B moves have fifty percent chance of messing up.

Overall: 6/10 His rocketbarrels can't save him from his lightness and strength deprivation.

Nice oerall cverage of the newcomers.

 

[Rhyme]

Yeah, I'd hate for any character to be given Mewtwo's treatment. That just wasn't fair.

Oh, you like hearing other people's opinions on your highly prized Pit?

Lesse...Pit seems to have the ground movement speed of Melee Shiek but with better aerial DI. His moves look to have some good jugle and combo set-ups. That recovery of his also reminds me of Peach's - highly predictable but nonetheless excelent. Only two things that I can forsee might hold him back.

1) Inability to combo out of a grab. We haven't seen how grabbing works yet so this is still difficult to say.

2) Lack of a good killing move. I'd hate for Pit to be the Y.Link of Brawl.

My personal prediction: The grab combos will only set him +/- two spots on the tier list at most. Characters without grab combo starters usually are given other means, so this shouldn't be a major problem. If he has a good killing move (Like Peach's Dsmash) then he'll probably be up near the top but not actually god tier. Probably fourth to seventh on the list. If he hasn't got a killing move, I could easily see him dropping a good...eight or ten places.

From what we've seen, Mario's looking like top-tier material to me. Anyone else agree?

 

[Masque]

Yeah, I'd hate for any character to be given Mewtwo's treatment. That just wasn't fair.

Oh, you like hearing other people's opinions on your highly prized Pit?

Lesse...Pit seems to have the ground movement speed of Melee Shiek but with better aerial DI. His moves look to have some good jugle and combo set-ups. That recovery of his also reminds me of Peach's - highly predictable but nonetheless excelent. Only two things that I can forsee might hold him back.

1) Inability to combo out of a grab. We haven't seen how grabbing works yet so this is still difficult to say.

2) Lack of a good killing move. I'd hate for Pit to be the Y.Link of Brawl.

My personal prediction: The grab combos will only set him +/- two spots on the tier list at most. Characters without grab combo starters usually are given other means, so this shouldn't be a major problem. If he has a good killing move (Like Peach's Dsmash) then he'll probably be up near the top but not actually god tier. Probably fourth to seventh on the list. If he hasn't got a killing move, I could easily see him dropping a good...eight or ten places.

From what we've seen, Mario's looking like top-tier material to me. Anyone else agree?

Interesting, but valid, take on Pit. So far, it looks as though general combos should be okay, so I doubt that his in/ability to combo out of a grab will make a huge difference. It's much too soon to tell about his (possible) finishers just based on the videos that we currently have. But I agree that lacking a finisher will hurt him severely. It pains me to even imagine such a cruel fate!

And it's amazing how much of a difference a move like F.L.U.D.D. can make.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Yea..

It seems like most of the new chars are medium or below in sizes. Charizard and Wario are possibly the only newcomers with a heavy weight. So...

My summary of the new fellas:

Meta Knight:
+: Has fast and powerful attacks, takes advantage of gliding, and has multijump capabilities.
-: Has no projectiles, lightweight and therefore, may be easy to toss of the stage.

Overall: 7/10 HE seems promising with an excellent moveset, but lets not rush to conclusions...

Personally, I would knock Meta up another notch. His insanely quick moves, and fast footwork and aerial game look like they're going to make him one of this games greatest combo artists. Definitely a 8-9/10.

Zamus:
+: Has a freaking whip, fast looking, and hot to trot.
-: Will she suffer the same fate as the other weak females of Peach/Zelda?

Overall: ?/10 The only reason she is unscorable is her mysteriousness, in which I mean that we have absolutely no idea of what her char is.

Peach and Zelda are nowhere near weak. Peach is one of the better characters in the game. And disregarding Zelda's lack of speed, she has more priority and strength than most characters. IMO, Zamus will play better than most people think. I'd say she will be about a 7/10 (and a perfect 10!) {wink-wink}

Wario:
+: Seems powerful, his motorcycle move is promising, and if Wario Waft is aerial-able, think of the possibilities...
-: Slow, has poor range, and IMO, his nose is disgusting...

Overall: 4/10 Why? Because without speed or range, his power is meaningless.

He doesn't look slow at all, and his large hitboxes will give him that edge he needs to be well balanced. Also, if he has some high priority moves to go along with those extremely powerful moves, which he probably will, he's going to be more balanced than you think. I'll put him at 7-8/10.

Ike:
+: B-Up is partly invincible, powerful, and just plain awesome.
-: May have the same problems as Marth; no projectile, sort of slow, etc.

Overall: 8/ 10 I love Fire Emblem and Ike has much potential as a top tier.

He looks very strong, he's probably going to be heavy, he's got that super armor, and his sword seems very long, but I have a feeling that he's going to be just a bit too slow on some of his moves. I have a feeling that even though he's super cool, he's being a tad overrated. I'll say he ends up 6-7/10.

PKMN Trainer:
+: Three unique movesets, variety, and Charizard/Ivysaur have good recovery.
-: The stamina effect sounds risky, the Trainer doesn't even fight, and Squirtle and possibly Ivysaur are lightweigths.

Overall: 7/10 For three movesets and a number of combo possibilities, can it make up for the fact of the stamina effect? We'll find out...

I'd like to know how PT not battling affects how well he fights... And I'll say because it looks like Sakurai tried to get all 3 character demographics into one character, I'll say that Squirtles fast yet light, Ivysaur's average all around with great projectiles, and Charizard is very strong and heavy but slow. But I feel you're right about stamina being risky/tricky. I have a feeling that it will be hard to find a good strategy, and the stamina factor may force you to change your current working strategy because your pokemon will be so wiped and will be incapable of fighting reasonably. I'll give PT a 5-6/10 for the untrained, and a 7-8/10 in his metagame.

Diddy:
+: A projectile, an aimable B-Up move, and seems to have excellent aerial.
-: Seems weak, is lightweight, and his B moves have fifty percent chance of messing up.

Overall: 6/10 His rocketbarrels can't save him from his lightness and strength deprivation.

Looks too eratic to play well, but this could help big time for mindgames. The one thing that's majorly a downside about him is his B moves' chances to backfire (and no one said it was a 50% chance that it would). He looks fun, but he doesn't look too good. I'll give him a 6-7/10.

 

[Dynamism]

Fawriel-Pit has more speed than Mewtwo and has priority with his sword. I think that eliminates the Mewtwo problem for him. Also for MK...his UpSmash is single his and his Dair is a single stroke, I don't think this multistroke thing will be a great problem. Maybe just spammed in defense then used rarely in regular close battles, useless timed well. I suspect frequent mid combo damage racking. And there's not much for lag it seems so far

Rhyme-Pit not having a good selection of finishers may be the only way to balance him. He's a Marth (they're both light) with less hitbox but a better survival. If you took Marths KO (Tip) he'd be balanced. And Pit, well..

Aeris-...sorry...lol He's got priority, good survival (possibly the best) with multiple jumps (comboing), speed and a good long range attack so he's gotta have something taken away.

Rhyme-Mario will be top tier now yes, but it may not be because of FLUUD...and they'll all be top tier so no big deal lol

smashbot226-Wario and Diddy are seemingly extremely unpredictable. This may serve as the biggest mindgamage yet. At a casual lvl, they may be low tier, but when the competitive play is at it's peak, they'll be right in the middle kicking ***

Dyce-Ike may be too slow, but think of him as immovable Ganon with a bigass sword. I'd give him 7-8.

P.S. Glad you aren't against Wario, there are too many Wario dissers! 7-8 He doesn't seem slow at all, and can probably take quite a bit of damage. Doubt you can keep away from him with the way he moves and wouldn't be surprised if he's similar to a G&W version of a Ganon/Doc fighter with better 360 coverage (waft, SUPER quick attacks [teleporting duh...]). He's seems like a possible air combo king too o_0

I'd give MK a 7-8 comparing both of your statements ^^ (Dyce/smashbot) He's floaty and light but that's a good thing and a bad thing. He's got a sword and has quick attacks with multi strokes. also good and bad.

I wouldn't be so against Diddy. He's fast, possibly strong and agile. Chances are he can combo and KO fairly well and he's unpredictable and causes havoc. I'd give him the only 9 before anyone but I'll go with 7-8 cause he may be easily juggled, not light necissarily, but not defensive enough. Then again, he may be the new Mewtwo if that's the case *shocked*

Zamus will definitaly be n00b abused. She looks like an easy character to play as, and a fun one too *wink* (pun there <) but she may be too light and not fast enough to "completely" dominate in a battle. I think she is well rounded in speed both in air and land battle and is equipped with a few decent finishers but nothing spectacular. Definitaly a threat to any challenger though. 7-8 also she's got good range, her whip, gun and those legs of hers...oh those legs! lol

If you haven't noticed, I'm rating them all 7-8/10 hahahaha! ehem...i mean...no reason
*whistles and looks around*



Edit: I totally forgot PT lol!

I agree with Dyce. Actually, n00bs will love him a think he PWNs, casual will think he's alright but below average and competitives...if you don't know how to use em', you don't know how to fight em' and you won't know what hit you. But if you're good with em' you'll compete with anyone. It's like having DK, Pickachu and Samus in one character. Take your pick and if one doesn't work on the char/player you're fighting, switch! And if you master all three and time the changes right (ex: Squirtle takes em' on racking up damage in combos being well rouded etc...Ivysaur hucks em' off the edge and blasts them with fire power, speed and edge guarding tactics and if that doesn't finish em'...Charizard can take some more damage so it'll be like a bran new battle but they already have damage so Char can KO them with his strength and size quickly. Though this could back fire. Then another tatic will have to be played.) Saki "You have to master them all to become a true Pokemon Master...PT = 7-8

 

[Rhyme]

Dynamism: Yes, this is true, but if he doesn't have finishers than I can't see him being any higher than...oh say...middle of the road? Out of a rough 35 fighters, 13th on the tier list if he doesn't have a good finisher. Marth without his tip still has Dtilt, Dair, Utilt, Ftilt, UNBELIEVABLY BROKEN GRAB, reverse dolphin slash, Fair, Bair...like, everything is just TOO good about him. It's not just the tip is what I'm saying.

Well, Mario's gotten a slightly extended upB (You must recover! screenshot), a Doc-esq Fair (NWT), and a revolutionary new defensive/edgeguarding move. I listed the changes in increasing order of importance. Mario's looking high tier but I don't think that every character will be. There's just no reason and, as of now, no supporting evidence for most of the characters.

P.S. Why am I the only one who doesn't like Wario's motorcycle move? Sure it's cool, but it's not practical.

As long as this is a long-arse post anyway:

This move is called the "Triple Dash" for those who had forgotten. What I certainly never realized was that if MK has more recovery options because of a 3-point Quick Attack, maybe he won't be as low tier as I'd been thinking. Interesting...I'm guessing that he won't be able to grab edges afterwards, similar to Falcon's Raptor Boost, but it's something to think about.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

P.S. Why am I the only one who doesn't like Wario's motorcycle move? Sure it's cool, but it's not practical.

I'm not a fan of Wario's Motorcycle move at all, either. And unless it gives huge damage and has random hitboxes like Peach's broken Parasol, it won't be worth pulling out and driving around. But that's no reason to hate on Wario, a lot of characters in Melee have attacks that are seldom used but are still good characters (Mario's Tornado, Jigglypuff's Sing, Peach's Bomber, Sheik's Whip, Samus' Screw). I have a feeling that, as of now, Wario is underrated and Ike is overrated.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

I agree that Wario is the underrated one, but not about Ike being overrated. That Honour undoubtedly goes to Meta Knight, because let's face it, when was the last time anyone accused Ike of potentially being broken?

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I agree that Wario is the underrated one, but not about Ike being overrated. That Honour undoubtedly goes to Meta Knight, because let's face it, when was the last time anyone accused Ike of potentially being broken?

I'm not saying Ike's going to be broken, I'm just saying that people are getting very hyped up saying he's going to be da bomb. Sure he's cool, and he's got super armor in one move, but what else do we know about him? He has t3h Ph1R3!?1/!/1/!??1? Well Roy had t3h Ph1R3!!1!!!!!11! It's not good enough for me.

And I still think Meta Knight will be a sexellent character. High/Upper-Middle Tier material, I say.

 

[Rhyme]

That Honour undoubtedly goes to Meta Knight, because let's face it, when was the last time anyone accused Ike of potentially being broken?

Ike's gonna be broken, plain and simple. ;p

I'm not a fan of Wario's Motorcycle move at all, either. And unless it gives huge damage and has random hitboxes like Peach's broken Parasol, it won't be worth pulling out and driving around. But that's no reason to hate on Wario, a lot of characters in Melee have attacks that are seldom used but are still good characters (Mario's Tornado, Jigglypuff's Sing, Peach's Bomber, Sheik's Whip, Samus' Screw). I have a feeling that, as of now, Wario is underrated and Ike is overrated.

Spoiler

I don't think Ike will be broken, Luke, just busting your balls. ^^

No, don't get me wrong. I've been waiting for Wario since Smash64 and he will probably be one of the first characters I try (top5 maybe?). I just think the sideB will be a waste of a move. Speaking of which, Samus' screw attack is one of if not Samus' best attacks in competitive play. Shield upBing is where it's at!

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

^^^^
Fo' real? I havn't played Samus that much to really get into all of her advanced techniques. Luckily, I have my GC on. I'm going to try this bad-mutha-sucka of a technique out right now!

 

[LukeFonFabre]

I honestly haven't seen people hype up Ike that much at all. Sure I've seen people expecting him to be a very decent character, but there really hasn't been anywhere as much hype as there has been for Meta Knight, where it seems every mention of him is accompanied by people seemingly convinced he's going to be broken/top-tier.

And honestly, I really don't think Meta is going to be anywhere near as good as people are expecting him to be (admittedly though that's not hard). I wouldn't be that surprised at all if he turns out to the Mewtwo of Brawl.

Edit: By Mewtwo, I don't mean Meta is going to end up bottom tier, I mean more of the sense that Mewtwo was a character many would've expected to have been really powerful, and ended up, well, not so much.

Ike's gonna be broken, plain and simple. ;p

That's one for Ike. Still doesn't really come close to the 100+ Meta seems to have racked up

 

[alphameric]

I thought I'd post a little deducing I did regarding foxes phantasm

Green lines illustrate the approximate starting point, and red the end point.
This conclusion is based on a number of factors.

• The size and behavior we have regarding smoke during attacks
• The size and perspective angle of foxes trail
• Link standing right on the edge
• Foxes hand and foot placement (hand on grate, foot directly before)

Now this is all just speculation and approximation. He may have started the phantasm a bit further out, but I can't be entirely certain.

Keep in mind, whoever was playing the fox could have very well canceled the phantasm early, he could have clipped the ledge, or the move may have an entirely new behavior that we don't know about.

 

[Rhyme]

^^^^
Fo' real? I havn't played Samus that much to really get into all of her advanced techniques. Luckily, I have my GC on. I'm going to try this bad-mutha-sucka of a technique out right now!

Yeah, you've got about 3 frames of lag before the attack actually starts. It's one of the fastest moves in the game and one of the few that can interrupt a drillshine out of your shield (Bowser is another common example).

That's one for Ike. Still doesn't really come close to the 100+ Meta seems to have racked up

Haha, not exactly.

I thought I'd post a little deducing I did regarding foxes phantasm

Now this is all just speculation and approximation. He may have started the phantasm a bit further out, but I can't be entirely certain.

Keep in mind, whoever was playing the fox could have very well canceled the phantasm early, he could have clipped the ledge, or the move may have an entirely new behavior that we don't know about.

Lol, I was just about to bring up each and every one of those disclaimers. Even still, nice find. Now to expand even further: Does a shortened Illusion mean a de-cloned or removed Falco? ._o

-Digs a hole and buries self to avoid impending chaos.-

EDIT: My bad everyone. Gave y'all a bit of misleading information. Yoshi's 3rd heaviest in the NTSC(Americas) version and 5th heaviest in the PAL(European, as it's widely regarded) version.

 

[twilight_hero]

Yoshi is heavy armor.

You see that thing on his back?

That's a ruby sphere of +15 defense, baby!


...actually, that's a good question.

Only +15?

...1) MOTHER 3 Claus is much cooler than Jolly Old St. Nicholas.
2) Santa "Clause" is actually Santa "Claus", same spelling. "Clause" is a syntactical idea containing both a subject and a predicate, often used in compound and/or complex sentences.
...

Read the signature.

twilight_hero-Did You Say Shenanigans???? anyway its self explanatory what Im gonna say so I wont say it.


BIG-T- Join Me and get better updates Muwahahahaha

Yeah, I said shenanigans!

Truthbetold, I haven't even played a MOTHER/EB game, either; but from everything I've read about M3 and Claus--while still trying to avoid some spoilers lol--he looks to be an awesome character.

I hope MK has little to no knockback. He'll be a biatch to deal with in a team situation (rack up damage and then finish with the other), but it will level the field in a one-on-one match.

The tournament viability of Battleship Halberd is still up in the air. None of the hazards sound like anything that couldn't be easily avoided with a little extra attention. And, knowing how adroit the Smash Upper Crust Kids (S.U.C.K.) are, the double-barreled battery shouldn't pose much of a problem.

I never realized just how heavy Yoshi was. But good for him; he needs a good boost in abilities!

ZOMG! You referenced my CUTing humor? I'm touched, Rhyme. I agree, though, that this week is in dire need of a boost that only CUTing could bring. CUT for Lucas! CUT for Claus! CUT for the Animal Crossing character! CUT!

d00d! MK needs to have knockback! Otherwise he can't pwn quite as much!

Actually, he probably will be a very weak character. But OMG, he will rule the damage meter!

CUT = Character Update Thursday

And an assailable Meta Knight is the best kind of Meta Knight. :bigthumbu

Oh, that's what it means...

3) The Santa Clause is a Tim Allen movie. (Ar-ar-ar-ar-arrr!)


And that's a good find Rhyme. I'll bet some of Meta's attacks, most likely the quickest ones that come from the middle of combos, will have no knockback at all but will just be used for damage (ala Fox's Laser).

Oh, and I just joined the Computer/Video Game Club at college today.
AND GUESS WHAT GAME THEY WERE PLAYING AT THE RECRUITMENT STAND!!! BWAHAHAHA!!! I PWND ALL!!!

True.

Good job with your pwnage!

CUTuesday works too, OMG! You meant to do that O_O lol

I LOVE BALANCE THIS GAME RULES!

Pit though, hm? Light weight is his weakness I'm sure. Him and MK hopefully have mediocer KO ability. Look at Pits Fair and Uair and MKs Dair and Bair in that E3 clip of them chasing eachother in the air. Total pwnage. that's a great clip haha

Bowser is probably impossible to knock off haha! And fox probably needs like 2 hits HA!

GO DYCE! lol

Too...much...CAPS!

Bowser won't be impossible to hit off. He'll be harder than in Melee, sure, but he can't be too hard. Besides, he's not hard to KO for me, as YL completely PWNS HIM!

Also, too much "lol" and "haha" crap. Tone it down some.

...Ooohh...niiice. Wish there were Meleeers at my college. That's right, Aeris, I made up a word and put three consecutive vowels in it.



Yeah, I probably over-reacted. If stages like Onett and Rainbow Cruise are counterpick stages than who am I to judge. It's just that when I first saw the update, I thought Princess Peach's Castle and Mute City combined. You don't want your opponent throwing/knocking you into level hazards, and you don't wanna have to focus on avoiding said hazards while fighting. So I'll say MAYBE a counterpick stage, but certainly not a neutral stage, not by any conventions....

I know no true Meleeers. Only one of my friends even ranks as a true Smasher. Everyone else is, I dunno, using the Z Button and spamming the Spin Attack with Link (or the equivalent). Dunno what rank that makes them.

Yah, if anything, the Halberd will be counter-pickable. But not a random pick by any means.

Congrats on the intense pwnage, my friend!



Ugh, Marth. With the new GIANT TURNIP (henceforth "the ZOMGTURNIP"), though, Peach might have a better chance at getting inside, especially if it's big enough to negate his blade. :bigthumbu Then again, we might not even have to worry about Marth in Brawl, so (possible) moot point.

I wish I knew some "Meleeers" at college! Since it's already in possession of two consecutive e's, I see no need to add a third, but kudos to you and your creative mind!

Sakurai's modesty about his own creations + low knockback = mid-tier MK. That sounds about right to me. Such a revelation deserves a full 15 seconds of self-congratulation, though: you deserve it.

I bet the ZOMGTURNIP is Peach's FS LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!111!!!!one!!!!!seven!!!712!!!!!!847333!!!!yomomma!!!!!!!1!!42!

Jesus Christ, I dunno where that came from...

Hmm If it isnt a CUT tomorrow I may pull a twilight_hero and Hadouken Spin Mr. Sakurai...BTW Sakurai=2 days

No. You can't properly pull off a Hadouken Spin. The closest anyone besides me can get is a Great Spin while shouting, "HADOUKEN!" but that's just not it.

... - Link was the most underrated meleeer(lol). I truely beleive he was top tier. I know, "it's not possible" lol. Look on youtube Link vs whoever...Link pwns at full potential. He's just much harder to use at full potential than someone like Fox. Now with these ajustments, the arrow becomes a greater factor to add to his already great arsenal of fire-power. His Dair lost the bounce so an L-cancled Dair will be even quicker to recover from. People complained about lag...well this will help more than it seems. Link will be tough to beat (and truely be) and of course, n00b usage spamed lol...

I know! And that is why I appreciate him so much. He really needs it. For such a kick@$$ series (LoZ here, not SSB--but SSB is pwnage too), why would the character be so underrated? I truly appreciate anyone who can use him well. With the improved arrow, the more combo-able boomerang, and the bigger-and-better bomb, not to mention the chargable Spin Attack and continuing tradition of extended grabs, perhaps the hero in the green hat will get a little more respect.

- Link: Underrated, spammed by n00bs, needed better projectiles.

And got 'em!

Haha, you make that countdown sound so ominous. When I first heard that on...when was it that you started the countdown...Sunday night?..I was like "OK, kinda unnecessary." It couldn't be more appreciated right now, though. Take notes, Mr. Sakurai.

Dammit, y'all need to stop threatening the poor guy! Now Rhyme's on the Hadouken Spin list too!

Lol, I did go on a rant a while back about how Marth wouldn't be in Brawl. However, I was actually refering to Melee Marth not potential-Brawl-Marth. I'm not taking the words of Mr. Sakurai lightly.

Couldn't care less if Marth's in Brawl or not. I already have four swordsmen as starters, and I like 'em all. I really don't care whether or not Marth and Roy return.

And that's all for that quote...

For some reason I can't be bothered to read all that.

But mark my words:

Metaknight will be mediocre and Pit will be cool but close to Melee Mewtwo in vulnerability.

Controversial! \o/

...and that's all.

MK will not be mediocre. He will pwn.

Aww, I didn't want to elaborate. =<

MK's range isn't THAT hot, he's floaty and probably won't be close to Jiggly's current aerial mobility. He has extremely fast attacks that hit multiple times. Seems to be mostly usable for building damage, especially if some of his hits really have no knockback! And if his smashes involve multi-hits, he'll suffer majorly against an enemy who can DI.
Not to mention that he probably can't control how many slashes he does per attack, so once he started attacking, if he whiffs, he leaves himself open.
His movement speed seems average to fast, nothing extremely noteworthy. If I recall correctly, he has no projectiles. And he'll be relatively lightweight because he's still just a Kirby-type thing with a helmet and a sword.
All of this speaks for him being a vacuum-less Kirby with inbuilt pwnsword and attacks with probably little knockback that reduce him to few finishers...

All of this is mere speculation, but I really don't see why everyone praises MK's fighting prowess already. I don't even find the multi-slices very cool. =P

Pit... well, not much to say. He seems like a more balanced fast-slicer with lots of options and probably some more power in his arms.
But he'll probably be quite light... and floatiness is practically a given. And his recovery, while versatile, is probably quite slow as well. All these along with the fact that he's not exactly tiny like Kirby point towards him being quite vulnerable.

Remember, everyone thought Mewtwo would be overpowered. *snaps finger*

Well, don't forget that it's not just a multi-hit...it's an incredibly fast multi-hit. So if the hit starts to hit you, you get the full brunt. Probably.

Also, you talk about DI. Who says you can DI in Brawl?

I'm guessing most of MK's multi-hitters work like YL's Spin Attack. If you get caught in it, you can't DI out. You're stuck. You can only DI once you're released from the attack.

I'm not a fan of Wario's Motorcycle move at all, either. And unless it gives huge damage and has random hitboxes like Peach's broken Parasol, it won't be worth pulling out and driving around. But that's no reason to hate on Wario, a lot of characters in Melee have attacks that are seldom used but are still good characters (Mario's Tornado, Jigglypuff's Sing, Peach's Bomber, Sheik's Whip, Samus' Screw). I have a feeling that, as of now, Wario is underrated and Ike is overrated.

I loathe the cycle.

...although it will be interesting to see it used in midair. Also, can anyone just see it being used for travel across long SE stages? Screw walking, I'm gonna ride the cycle. If I have to play as the greedy b@stard, that is.

I thought I'd post a little deducing I did regarding foxes phantasm

Green lines illustrate the approximate starting point, and red the end point.
This conclusion is based on a number of factors.

• The size and behavior we have regarding smoke during attacks
• The size and perspective angle of foxes trail
• Link standing right on the edge
• Foxes hand and foot placement (hand on grate, foot directly before)

Now this is all just speculation and approximation. He may have started the phantasm a bit further out, but I can't be entirely certain.

Keep in mind, whoever was playing the fox could have very well canceled the phantasm early, he could have clipped the ledge, or the move may have an entirely new behavior that we don't know about.

Yes, I think s/he cancelled it, 'cause that's just too short to be very useful.

 

[alphameric]

Yes, I think s/he cancelled it, 'cause that's just too short to be very useful.

It's PROBABLY a bit longer than I displayed, but that is still much shorter than the old one, and almost the same as falcos.

 

[twilight_hero]

It's PROBABLY a bit longer than I displayed, but that is still much shorter than the old one, and almost the same as falcos.

Is that all you have to say? Did you not read the whole thing?


...JK.


...mostly.

 

[Masque]

I agree that Wario is the underrated one, but not about Ike being overrated. That Honour undoubtedly goes to Meta Knight, because let's face it, when was the last time anyone accused Ike of potentially being broken?

They're both overrated--or at least hyped up by the nubians n00bians.

Spoiler

Homonymic humor!

I'm not saying Ike's going to be broken, I'm just saying that people are getting very hyped up saying he's going to be da bomb. Sure he's cool, and he's got super armor in one move, but what else do we know about him? He has t3h Ph1R3!?1/!/1/!??1? Well Roy had t3h Ph1R3!!1!!!!!11! It's not good enough for me.

And I still think Meta Knight will be a sexellent character. High/Upper-Middle Tier material, I say.

Frankly, I couldn't really care less about either of them. I'm glad that MK is in solely because the Kirby franchise really needed another rep (and will soon get one more with DeDeDe!). My little brother is really excited for MK (and DeDeDe), though.

As soon as n00bs see a sword or fire, they wet their pants with glee; imagine how Roy and Ike make them feel!

I honestly haven't seen people hype up Ike that much at all. Sure I've seen people expecting him to be a very decent character, but there really hasn't been anywhere as much hype as there has been for Meta Knight, where it seems every mention of him is accompanied by people seemingly convinced he's going to be broken/top-tier.

And honestly, I really don't think Meta is going to be anywhere near as good as people are expecting him to be (admittedly though that's not hard). I wouldn't be that surprised at all if he turns out to the Mewtwo of Brawl.

Edit: By Mewtwo, I don't mean Meta is going to end up bottom tier, I mean more of the sense that Mewtwo was a character many would've expected to have been really powerful, and ended up, well, not so much.

Agreed about MK. Be careful how you use Mewtwo's name, though: it carries a stigma around these parts.

And LOLZ at twilight for making me scroll through that monster of a post just for some CD-i Link lovin'.

 

[Dynamism]

Well, Mario's gotten a slightly extended upB (You must recover! screenshot), a Doc-esq Fair (NWT), and a revolutionary new defensive/edgeguarding move. I listed the changes in increasing order of importance. Mario's looking high tier but I don't think that every character will be. There's just no reason and, as of now, no supporting evidence for most of the characters.

P.S. Why am I the only one who doesn't like Wario's motorcycle move? Sure it's cool, but it's not practical.

This move is called the "Triple Dash" for those who had forgotten. What I certainly never realized was that if MK has more recovery options because of a 3-point Quick Attack, maybe he won't be as low tier as I'd been thinking. Interesting...I'm guessing that he won't be able to grab edges afterwards, similar to Falcon's Raptor Boost, but it's something to think about.[/COLOR][/FONT][/B]

Regarding Broken Mario-His Fair is like Docs...good upgrade. His extended UpB may be to make up for the decrease in his Dair translation of the Tornado. FLUUD may break him though. But will he really be broken? If you look at Link, his firepower was unmatched in Melee and now arrows are faster. If you dodge his boomerrang, it comes back and pulls you into a charged SPIN ATTACK TO THE FACE! What if every char is broken? FLUUD may top this though. Either way, Mr. Nintendo deserves to be broken!

Regarding Wario Chopper-This is like IC stage to Runble Falls conversion aka improved. Now it may give more damage, KOable and launchable as an edge guarder or at an edge guarder. It basically onpens up for a new Yoshi >B

Regarding Triple Dash-Does he dash 3 times? Raptor like or Skull Bash like? MK is feared to be broken for a reason. This is just one of many other unnoticed breaks.

I'm not a fan of Wario's Motorcycle move at all, either. And unless it gives huge damage and has random hitboxes like Peach's broken Parasol, it won't be worth pulling out and driving around. But that's no reason to hate on Wario, a lot of characters in Melee have attacks that are seldom used but are still good characters (Mario's Tornado, Jigglypuff's Sing, Peach's Bomber, Sheik's Whip, Samus' Screw). I have a feeling that, as of now, Wario is underrated and Ike is overrated.

Wario is extremely underrated, too much W hate out there. And you''re forgetting Ness's DownB, even in 64. He should be able to charge and move while it's active.

I'm not saying Ike's going to be broken, I'm just saying that people are getting very hyped up saying he's going to be da bomb. Sure he's cool, and he's got super armor in one move, but what else do we know about him? He has t3h Ph1R3!?1/!/1/!??1? Well Roy had t3h Ph1R3!!1!!!!!11! It's not good enough for me.

And I still think Meta Knight will be a sexellent character. High/Upper-Middle Tier material, I say.

Ike won't be broken. He's too easy to approach. MK will be harder to get to with his Shuffled Fair multistroke spammed than Ike's Forward Smash Slashes. Then again t3H pH 1R3!!!111!!!1!1!!!!!!?

^^^^
Fo' real? I havn't played Samus that much to really get into all of her advanced techniques. Luckily, I have my GC on. I'm going to try this bad-mutha-sucka of a technique out right now!

Yes the screwing is a great move. It's a shame Zamus won't be doing any screwing...or will she

Yeah, you've got about 3 frames of lag before the attack actually starts. It's one of the fastest moves in the game and one of the few that can interrupt a drillshine out of your shield (Bowser is another common example).

Does a shortened Illusion mean a de-cloned or removed Falco? ._o

Digs a hole and buries self to avoid impending chaos.

My bad everyone. Gave y'all a bit of misleading information. Yoshi's 3rd heaviest in the NTSC(Americas) version and 5th heaviest in the PAL(European, as it's widely regarded) version.

CHAOOSSSS!!!

Bowser will PWN with his bran new... (wait for it) ...jump cancled UpB MUHAHAH!

I'll do MY THOUGHTS on Falco soon, it'll explain the no illusion for him theory of...well..mine lol

Yoshi was the ONLY imobilized in the other ssbs so he deserves that treatement!

Agreed about MK. Be careful how you use Mewtwo's name, though: it carries a stigma around these parts.

AH!!!!!!!! MEWTWO !!!!!!!!!!

Edit: P.S. This post was almost double this length including more MY THOUGHTS along with Falcos (who should really be in the "Who's going to return thread" but he was brought up) and new contriversial topics involving DK for top tier and PT tactics. I'll fill it in later though. To pissed off to do it again,

My general Thoughts regarding Falco

He'll keep his fazer and reflector as they were big parts of his character and unique to him. His bazooka is his new >B and it's chargable. that's the just of the illusion crap and twighlight_hero...I agree alot but disagree alot lol

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Alright, what I see here could be one of three things:

1) The angle taken in screenshot A isn't good enough to really deduce what's happening. [Which I'm willing to bet that's all it is. Look how far back the cloud is in comparison to the first afterimage. And besides that, there's really no way to base where the green line should be marked.]
2) Fox is cancelling a Illusion or he is shortening it in some cool new way.
3) He has been given the shorter fB so Falco can be just that much more different from Fox and because Falco needed some kind of good recovery. [Which is what I've been hoping for since I started maining Falco.]

Wario is extremely underrated, too much W hate out there. And you''re forgetting Ness's DownB, even in 64. He should be able to charge and move while it's active.

Nah, that would just break it. Maybe if he could move at a slow waddle, but if he were able to hold it and run and jump... that just wouldn't be fair. Also, it should do something else so it's not a waste of a move against opponents with no projectile.

 

[Rhyme]

Regarding Broken Mario-His Fair is like Docs...good upgrade. His extended UpB may be to make up for the decrease in his Dair translation of the Tornado. FLUUD may break him though. But will he really be broken?

Regarding Triple Dash-Does he dash 3 times? Raptor like or Skull Bash like? MK is feared to be broken for a reason. This is just one of many other unnoticed breaks.

He'll keep his fazer and reflector as they were big parts of his character and unique to him. His bazooka is his new >B and it's chargable. that's the just of the illusion crap and twighlight_hero...I agree alot but disagree alot lol

I didn't say that Mario would be broken. A character can be high tier without being so. Jiggs, Falco and Peach aren't so bad (Peach's Dsmash and Falco's SHL if he chooses to abuse it). Mario might have one exploitable move (FLUDD) and be otherwise a completely fair character.

I'm still gonna say that Wario's overB won't be too effective.

Why wouldn't MK dash three times? It's the TRIPLE DASH. Point already made. I remember suggesting moves for Dark Samus and saying that DS should be able to move quickly in 3 directions without doing damage as a recovery move to reflect the sound-defying speeds at which she moved in Prime 2. Not such a farfetched theory if it appeared for MK. More Pikachu's Quick Attack like, which is why I suggested it in the first place. Only now there's two points instead of one.

Alright, what I see here could be one of three things:

[Which is what I've been hoping for since I started maining Falco.]

Nah, that would just break it. Maybe if he could move at a slow waddle, but if he were able to hold it and run and jump... that just wouldn't be fair.

You know, that random participator did claim knowledge of the three fatal flaws in this theory.

Agreed. If Wario were to be capable of rapid/agile movement than he'd indeed be broken. I'm sure his clumsiness is not only flavorful but also balancing.

Saved the worst for last. Some people will hate me for this. We WILL NOT get four Starfox representatives; it just ain't gonna happen. So long as it won't, I'd much rather see Fox, Krystal, and Wolf together in the final instalment. Confirmed, more original female character who shares several of the same roles as Falco, main villain.

 

[Devastlian]

I'm gonna have to agree with Rhyme on this one. Fox, Krystal, and Wolf are the best choices for SF characters. Falco (along with Dr. Mario) is probably the only character that I really don't want back. <_<

 

[PyrasTerran]

Overall: 4/10 Why? Because without speed or range, his power is meaningless.

Wario's speed, as well as the speed of Bowser, DK, and others of that calibur, is no longer the crutch it once was in Melee.

Remember how Ike's up-B worked? Sakurai promised that other power-hitters will have the same armor to keep themselves from flinching after unleashing devastating attacks. Lots of lighter characters are gonna find themselves hitting at an unstoppable attack, and even though the damage will be done on the juggernaut, even more damage would have been done on the lightweight, and the lightweight will be the one that flies.

 

[leeray666]

Any reason why Snake is not and has not been for months on smashbros.com under new characters?

 

[Fawriel]

Wario's speed seems decidedly average. I don't think it'll be a great disadvantage of his in the first place.