Confirmed Character Discussion (Part 2)

[capt.falcon4life]

bowser was bottom tier on melee, so...a final smash just changed that?

 

[roy_owns]

Final smashes can change anything

 

[chiyo-chan' dad]

Final smash will not change the tiers, Tournaments don't use items.

 

[Gaudion]

bowser was bottom tier on melee, so...a final smash just changed that?

They said on the official site that Bowser plays a little differently in general this time. I don't think it was hard to miss that he was one of the worst characters in the game last time around and I'm sure they're aiming to change that and hopefully get the game a little more balanced than SSBM's roster was.

I'll be using him regardless, but here's hoping.

 

[roy_owns]

Hopefully there isn't a "worst character" this time.

 

[Sensai]

Simple definition denotes that there has to be a worst character. Well, not exactly, but there has to be a character (at least one, maybe more) that is clearly worse then the rest. Same goes for 'best', but on the other end.

 

[Fawriel]

bowser was bottom tier on melee, so...a final smash just changed that?

No. Just the fact that Bowser is unresistably cute. <3

Simple definition denotes that there has to be a worst character. Well, not exactly, but there has to be a character (at least one, maybe more) that is clearly worse then the rest. Same goes for 'best', but on the other end.

I think the point is that we'd rather have a "least good" character.

 

[The rAt]

A few thoughts;

HaHaa..!rAt!! I'm so happy for your accomplishment.

((So very sorry for the double-post, but I got overexcited. ))

Thank you, thank you. I'd like to thank all the little people. Wait, you all see them too, right??

On a more serious note, tiers are the devil. They serve no practical purpose whatsoever and they are completely subjective. I say this mainly because I consistently beat 'high' tier characters with the almighty rAt (Pikachu, to the uninitiated), who is considered to be 'low' tier by most people. So, either I'm a smash god (which is entirely possible) or the tier list is utter bunk (which is entirely more possible).

Not to pick on you for doing all that work, Fawriel. I just hate tiers.

Sensai, I see your point, but I think what roy_owns meant was that hopefully there won't be a "worst character of Pichu-ic purportions."

EDIT: Fawriel, good luck with that whole "civilization without idiots" thing. I've been trying to weed them out for years, but they multiply like rabbits on viagra.

 

[Fawriel]

On a more serious note, tiers are the devil. They serve no practical purpose whatsoever and they are completely subjective. I say this mainly because I consistently beat 'high' tier characters with the almighty rAt (Pikachu, to the uninitiated), who is considered to be 'low' tier by most people. So, either I'm a smash god (which is entirely possible) or the tier list is utter bunk (which is entirely more possible).

Not to pick on you for doing all that work, Fawriel. I just hate tiers.

I hate tiers just as much as you do. It's just pretty much inevitable that some characters end up having more potential than others.
However, note who I put into low tier.

EDIT: Fawriel, good luck with that whole "civilization without idiots" thing. I've been trying to weed them out for years, but they multiply like rabbits on viagra.

Thanks.
...
Hang on, I hear something.

No. NO! I - rraaAAGH!

*falls over with an axe in his back*

...

"DAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!"

 

[Wii Lee]

Do you know if zero suit samus will be playable totally as a new character (will she appears in the character selection screen ?) or only after a samus' final smash ?

 

[Sgt.Frog]

That's pretty much what the Brawl section has been larking about for the past day lol

 

[PIMPSLAP]

that is a ghey final smash for samus *call the avengers and puts a hit out on sakura*

 

[roy_owns]

All we can really hope for is a better update tomarrow.

 

[Sensai]

You can't just say 'tiers are evil' and dispel them. It just doesn't work like that...

Yes, they're subjective but no one is claiming that they're fact. A LOT of people praise the list as the holy and that's just bull****. Skill plays the most important part, but there are definitely some characters better then others. A Fox and a Roy of equal skill will result in a space-animal's victory.

 

[roy_owns]

There are tiers theres no way around it

 

[-PM-]

i think all the bottom tiers should be boosted really high just so they can all **** shiek, falco, fox, ext just for brawl lol

 

[The rAt]

That, Sensai, roy owns, and Fawriel, is where we are going to disagree.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all characters are equally useful. My hatred for Pichu is evidence of that. What I am saying that making a list of characters grouping them based on how useful they are is pure lunacy because there are far too many factors which are based not on the character itself but the person using it. Therefore, there is no objective standard against which to test the claims people make about tiers.

The problem with tiers is that they are make claims far more specific than are warrented. Saying that Fox, for example, is a top tier and Bowser, for another example, is a bottom tier isn't just making a statement about Fox and Bowser, it is making claims about everyone in the tiers in between, and its based on the performance of human beings who are just as varied and diverse as the characters we purport to describe, which unless I'm mistaken, is based on limited personal observation.

I mean, if we wanted to take a poll on who mains what characters, how well they do with their mains vs. how well they do with other characters and how that person ranks in regards to the rest of the Smash community, then perhaps there would be a basis for a tier system that actually means anything to anyone besides the person who constructed it, but that just seems a bit unrealistic to me.

So, where's the proverbial beef? I stand by my claims that making statements as specific and sweepingly general as tiers is completely unfounded and not necessary in critiquing characters' strengths and weaknesses. End rant.

I realize that's just an issue I'm not going to agree with most people on here, though. What can ya do.

On a slightly more on topic note... yeah, I got nothing. As soon as the mods start cracking down on the off-topic rants in this thread I am so screwed.

Andy

 

[Sensai]

It's the Brawl boards, rAt, the mods really don't give a **** about anything here.

And we somewhat agree. You're right when you say that 'making statements as specific and sweepingly general' concerning tiers is stupid. For example, saying something about a Bowser vs Fox match before you know specifics (who's playing, level, etc) like 'Fox will win because he's higher tier' is dumb.

But most people, most intelligent people if I can say that, don't cite the tiers because they believe it's perfect. In fact, most don't cite the tier list at all. It's more like a general hierchy of the Smash game based on recent metagame.

But it's undeniable that some characters are worse then others. We've had this, actually, as someone said something about Bowser. If your Fair with Bowser gets shielded, what do you do? You have one choice, and that's to Up B. As Fox, if you hit a shield with a Nair, there quite a few things you can do.

 

[Fawriel]

What Sensai said. It's true that the tier list claims to be far too specific, far more than it can possibly be. Just watch at Gimpy and Gojira, for example, ****** other highly ranked players.

Every character has certain match-ups.
The thing is that the high-tier characters simply have all the good match-ups, while Bowsers ALWAYS have the odds turned against them because his slow strength and huge size gives him no direct advantage over anyone.

The lower you get on the tiers, the more you have to play defensively in a match against a higher tier character.
Playing as Mewtwo even against my really, really lousy father when he's Sheik, my options are usually just shield-grabbing unless he messes up and leaves himself open somehow.

 

[The rAt]

Not to abruptly change the subject, but having seen today's update, I humbly submit that WTF??

 

[Wii Lee]

Do you know if zero suit samus will be playable totally as a new character (will she appears in the character selection screen ?) or only after a samus' final smash ?

The rAt => The today's update is for the intro vid of the game and the final boss (where's master hand ? )

 

[Red Exodus]

Same here Rat, I already WTF'd in a another thread.I'm lost now. Wtf do we talk about now?

 

[Wrath`]

wierd update, who knows anymore

 

[Sensai]

Was going to come to the thread and say that exact same thing...

What the hell is that update supposed to mean?

Why do you think it's the final boss?

[Edit:]

Got it. Nevermind.

Looks epic.

 

[DainBramaged]

O.o..... I looked at today's update.......

many horizontally placed dots I say.......many horizontally placed dots....................

I highly doubt THAT thing will be any final boss....mabey a new wire frame? or something along those lines...

 

[-NEOLINK-]

I love that new update today...wonder who or what it is. It looks really good and i can see kirby's reflection in his trophy.

 

[roy_owns]

It looks like a messed up Chibi- Robo...

 

[chiyo-chan' dad]

Man, he just looks sick, I think he will be the new bad guy. I hope to see the update on him soon, should be good.

 

[Desruprot]

He will be what He will be at the moment, I do not think he is strong enough to be the villian i.e. The Master Hand

 

[chiyo-chan' dad]

He will be what He will be at the moment, I do not think he is strong enough to be the villian i.e. The Master Hand

Mmm... I think he looks better then the The Master Hand, looks more evil.

 

[roy_owns]

Maybe it's Master Hand's Master.

 

[twilight_hero]

Maybe he's Sakurai...

 

[Desruprot]

looking more evil? look at the eyes, but look at his thin body also... He significance can only be minor. Also the Master Hand has been the Villan in the past two games, I doubt that it will not be him.

 

[roy_owns]

looking more evil? look at the eyes, but look at his thin body also... He significance can only be minor. Also the Master Hand has been the Villan in the past two games, I doubt that it will not be him.

If he was minor they wouldn't be in the update, besides look at Minda she didn't look like she could cause big damage but when she was in her true form, she was bigger than Hyrule Castle.

 

[chiyo-chan' dad]

looking more evil? look at the eyes, but look at his thin body also... He significance can only be minor. Also the Master Hand has been the Villan in the past two games, I doubt that it will not be him.

I know that Master Hand been the Villan in the past two games, but it will be better playing as the Villan of the game. This guy looks more playable, the Master Hand would be too messy.

 

[Stryks]

If he was minor they wouldn't be in the update, besides look at Minda she didn't look like she could cause big damage but when she was in her true form, she was bigger than Hyrule Castle.

Dude her true form is the Twili midna, the one that looks human, her spider form she has, the on that is bigger than the castle, is the combination of the fused shadows and her power... get ur facts straight...

 

[Wizzlecroff]

I agree with the fact that it looks like a minion. It has no distinct evil character looking qualities. He is simple, and doesn't look like he has a mind of his own in my opinion.

 

[Desruprot]

Yes he does seem too simple, although the questions remain unanswered for now...
If you notice his arms, they are thinner then mario's, he has to be a Minion.

 

[LeifusYourGod]

ok, zelda ia there, but does that include shiek??

 

[The rAt]

roy_owns, if every update was of something important, how do you explain banana peels, bumpers and 'you must recover'?

My initial thought was that either Mario or Kirby was being transeformed into that thing for "breaking the rules" or something. My second was thought was that it was the replacement for the wireframes. My third thought we shall not speak of, but my fourth thought was that I'm going to have to stop waiting up for these updates. Any of these thoughts resonate with anyone else?

Also, was it me, or was that Meta Knight's ship in the background of one of the screen shots?

EDIT: LeifusYourGod, it has been discussed, we don't know, read a few pages back if you want to know what's been said