You have no logic whatsoever. If it is a commercial failure, then it has absolutely NO effect on the future trends of the industry, because people will decide NOT to do what doesn't work. That should be quite obvious, even to one has offensively irrational as yourself.
Excuse me? The industry still loses if Nintendo gets screwed here, you do realize. Smash Bros Brawl is their
only AAA title until Wii Zelda, and we all know how far off Wii Zelda is...and how prone to delays it might be. If this game tanks because it ends up playing like mush, that's a major hit to the big N, and considering they're currently positioned to re-invigorate portions of the industry...a hit to Nintendo, the industry leader, can mean a pretty major setback to the industry itself. Or does that not make sense to you?
However, even if it DOES do well, I don't know what insane part of you thinks this game has any more "user input" than any other fighting game or fanservice.
Show me one fighting game where fans have decided every single new character since the game's development started. Show me one fighting game where the fans got to make these ridiculous demands and the developer actually used those ridiculous demands. And if you're able to come up with any games here, ask yourself if those games ended up being complete jokes or if they were actually seriously worth playing beyond a few matches.
however, it's not like they're granting our every wish.
They aren't? So far, which characters from that character poll...haven't made it in? Why have scores upon scores of gamers been complaining that they haven't seen Ridley or Krystal, or Geno, and so on? Because so far the implication is that any character that gamers suggested...will be included in the game...i.e., granting every wish. I agree that it's asinine and stupid, but that's the horrid reality of the situation: this character poll nonsense has created a nasty "we're gonna get everything we asked for" situation. If you don't believe me, then take a look around you. Look at how many people have this false sense of entitlement. Then ask yourself
why there's that false sense of entitlement. I promise you the answer has a whole lot to do with that character poll.
No, Sakurai is just trying to make his last Smash Bros game as good as possible.
This is what we, as gamers, want. This is what the industry needs.
Wait, I'm sorry. Production values? More content? Better one-player stories? You do realize what game you're talking about here? Sure, there's a "massive effort" to make Brawl the ultimate Smash Bros game. But do you honestly believe this "massive effort" is actually going to improve the industry? I guarantee you that even later this year,
nobody is going to give two ****s about the "added content" of Brawl. Nobody is going to give two ****s about the one-player "story" mode. Why? Because Brawl is a fighting game. Nobody plays any fighting game for years because of a vague term like "added content." And they sure as hell don't play any fighting game for years because of a "better" one-player story mode.
But you are right about one thing. It's that we, as gamers, do want better fighting games. Better FIGHTING GAMES. The industry certainly needs better FIGHTING GAMES. But don't for a moment convince yourself that Brawl's added content or one-player story mode is going to improve anything.
What you should worry about is party games and non-gamer products selling so well that we don't get massive titles like this anymore. You should worry about third parties trying to capitalize on the non-gamer.
You mean the Wii itself? What makes you think I'm not concerned about what you just described? For all the good the Wii is doing for the industry, Nintendo is making terrible mistakes.
I think it's still suicidal to honestly believe that it's acceptable to only have three AAA titles every three years. It's still suicidal to think that Super Mario Galaxy will be enough to satisfy "hardcore gamers" in a year when the Wii release list has been undeniably bat-**** terrible. Taking this much time for Brawl is suicidal, especially when most Wii systems are collecting dust because there's nothing worth playing. Taking this much time for Brawl is equally suicidal if all of this time is being spent on single-player and throw-away modes that aren't going to mean anything in a few months.
What universe do you live in? Seriously, you might think I'm being an *******, but all your comments have blown my mind.
I live in the same universe as you, and no, I don't think you're being an *******. I just don't think you've given yourself a chance to really appreciate the severity of where all of this could be going. Hell, I'm glad my comments have blown your mind, because blowing someone's mind is the first step in getting them to start looking at things differently...and quite honestly, the sooner people stop thinking like the majority of gamers I've been seeing...the better.
That doesn't mean anything. That only puts the game at risk of not selling as well. Forum outcry like this isn't putting Nintendo under pressure. They can't please everyone, they know that - and besides, it's too late for them to do anything. The complaints only really came about recently, and the game is done now. Sakurai didn't open up the roster selection to fans. He waged interest, and incorporated what he thought would work. He envisioned the game he wanted and tried to please fans at the same time.
This just proves you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
But when the expectations exist, there's already a problem...especially when those expectations can be traced back to a character poll for the fans, from the creator of the game, which outright asked them "Which characters would you like to see in Smash Bros Brawl?" This isn't outrageous, man. Just ask yourself why's there this piss-ant outcry every time Ridley isn't confirmed? Or Geno. Or Krystal. Or whoever else got in the top 10 of that character poll roster. Sakurai absolutely did open up the roster selection to fans. Because if he hadn't, we wouldn't be seeing all of these people getting their panties all up in a twist because they're not seeing Ridley, or Geno, or Krystal, or Isaac, etc, in character rosters. It's a false sense of entitlement, dude, and you can trace it directly back to when fans got a direct say in which characters were making it in.
Quite the contrary, actually. If fans are getting to dictate a fighting game roster, why should the expectation end there? Why shouldn't they expect to be able to create and vote on an entire arsenal in a new FPS? When fan expectations get this utterly crazy, pointing to other genres possibly suffering from the same fate is not as absurd as you'd like to think.
Red said:
That's where I differ from you though. I don't necessarily think they're "bending over" to our demands as such. Giving us Sonic I think was a good move from a financial standpoint, as well as one in which they try to please the gamer.
As for dictating the direction of a game... that's kind of what the standard of the industry is for. I like that attitude much more to "I'm going to do what I do, **** you if you don't like it." Developers try to please fans because that's what a LOT of them are in for.
I don't think it'll ever get to the point of "bending over" backwards for fans, but I do think what's happening is that developers will listen more towards fan's suggestions, and make their game accordingly... not listening to every beckon call, but making the tough decisions as to which tips to take and not take.
Let me ask you, though...how often have you met a regular, bum****, Average Joe-Schmoe fan on the internet that you'd trust with any part of any game's development? Realistically, out of the videogamers online, are there more rational ones or more who are just utterly twisted without the slightest hint of intelligence?
And again, with what you said above, we're not necessarily differing. Like I said, I have no problem if a developer opens up for fan suggestions/improvements after the game was released. I have no problem with Bungie or Epic patching Halo 3 or Gears/UT when fans submit feedback. That is a **** good working relationship, especially since there's a clear amount of developer discretion being exercised. Here, however, there has been no discernible developer discretion at this point. From what we've seen for Brawl, there have been no "tough decisions" mad, because so far, the majority of the character suggestions have been added to the game.
I'll tell you now, regardless of whether this roster is real or not... there are characters that are NOT going to be on the final list. If you honestly think King K. Rool, Krystal, Ridley, Midna, Isaac, Megaman, Geno, Ryu, Batman, or even Sakurai himself are ALL GOING to be playable characters... I think you guys need to set yourself up for a little disapointment because not everyone on that list is going to make it.
Doesn't mean thte game will suck(and if you think that, please go drown yourself. Honestly. "OH! MEGAMAN'S NOT IN IT, THOUGH I CHEERED WHEN YOU PUT SONIC, OLIMAR, SHEIK AND IKE IN, BUT **** YOU NOW! NEV4R BUYING THIS GAME! THIS ROSTER IS HORRIBLE! IT'S LIKE YOU LYNCHED A MINORITY AND BEAT UP A SMALL CHILD BAD! DO YOU HATE ORPHANS? BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO CRY WHEN THEY SEE HOW BAD THIS LIST IS! IN FACT, 400 KITTENS HAVE BEEN MURDERED, SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE THIS LIST EXISTS! IT'S FAKE! HOW DO I KNOW IT'S FAKE? BECAUSE 400 KITTENS SHOULDN'T MURDER THEMSELVES, AND OLIMAR'S PIKMIN IS LIKE A PIXEL OFF, AND BECAUSE ONE OF THE CHARACTERS WAS MENTIONED AS A SUBSPACE EMISSARY CHARACTER, AND THERE HAVE BEEN NO EXCELLENT FIGHTING GAMES IN WHICH A NORMAL ENEMY WAS UNLOCKABLE*COUGH*soulcalibur2*COUGH* AND IT MAKES ME SO ANGRY, AND I FEEL LIKE PUNCHING A WALL, IF THIS LIST IS NOT DECONFIRMED, I WILL NEVER GET THIS GAME! I WILL GO TO JAPAN AND COMMIT SEPPUKU BY PUNCTURING MY ABDOMIN WITH A LARGE KNIFE MADE FROM THE STEEL OF SAKURAI'S STUPID COMPUTER, WHICH I WILL SMASH! SMASH WITH ALL THE VIGOR OF KRYSTAL AND RIDLEY AND MEGAMAN AND EVERY OTHER CHARACTER THAT DIDN'T MAKE IT IN! I WILL BURN IT ALIVE! AND THEN DIE! DIE A GREAT DEATH FILLED WITH MYSTERY AND WONDER! AND I WILL FOREVER SPEAK IN CAPS LOCK BECAUSE IT MAKES ME SOUND COOL!").
Unlike last time, this game's initially revealed roster(the one that's up right now) has more than enough characters to relate to a player. If you don't find Krystal there, doesn't mean your not going to find a character to suit you or make you smile when playing. Melee was like that for me, because I grew up as a Sega kid, and so when Melee pretty much defined what the gamecube could do, and made it's competitors actually glance it at for once instead of walking by it without even bothering to notice, I instantly picked it up. Half the characters were clones, and some of them didn't really bother me (YOUNG LINK IS FAST! I'M LIKE 12 AT THIS POINT IN MY LIFE AND I FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF... Wait a minute, no **** this, he's like Yun and Fei long from street fighter, this is BULL****!) some of them did(WTF Ganandorf. Falcon punch more... well then again that wizard magic does like nice). But honestly, besides not having many friends(hint: take a guess why I occupied time with music.), Whenever I played the game, there wasn't really a character I could vibe too much(Roy and Marth helped clear some tension though...). I'd played Nintendo games, but still... It seemed like there wasn't really somebody's style that really grabbed me as much as it did when I was 9 and a pokemon fanatic trying to play Pikachu in every SSB64 game I could muster. But this time seems different...
Sonic is there(which makes me very happy), and that's a character I can connect with, and actually enjoy watching(16 bit mascot wars better be an event, or I will stab a Tiger.), not to mention Snake for all realistic shooter fans. Speaking of shooters, Samus has kind of redefined herself since Prime, and that should appeal to many. Lucario should suit fighting game fans of street fighter quite well(He's a pokemon with a Hadoken. Mewtwo had a psychic ball. Hadoken > Psychic ball because Ryu kicked Vega's ***, and that's my logic. I will cover my ears and yell if I am proved wrong.) Link and Ike should suit vets of swordplay and fantasy perfectly... Mario and group bring their simplistic nostalgia and accessibility to the table. Fox brings a lot of tactical gameplay to the mix... and every one of these characters new and old has new idealisms and associations they haven't had before. You will FIND a character you connect with, especially since half of them AREN'T clones.
I went off on a tangent. But I hope you get my point. I'll further clarify if need be.
When that's your tangent, I have no problem with you going off on it. What you said there is something that all of these "WHERE'S MY CHARACTER" whiner little *****es need to read.
EDIT: Wyvern:
Wyvern said:
I assume that by this, you mean that the developers can make the gameplay better when left to their own devices, correct?
Generally, yes. Especially when they don't have to deal with piss-ant little demands coming from piss-ant little twerps who suggest/demand **** because it helps them get their little rocks off.
Well, if that's true, answer me this: How does putting Fox, Falco, and Wolf in the game but not Krystal benefit the gameplay in any way?
I'd like to see Krystal in the game. I'm not against Krystal being in the game. I think she'd bring a lot to Brawl. I'd be very interested in how she'd use her staff. I have no problem with her being in Brawl. HOWEVER, what I DO have a problem with is
how and
why she's a candidate for the game...because it wasn't coming from the developers themselves. I'd much have preferred Sakurai give fans a list of five potential characters, chosen by the dev team, and tell them to vote on their top 3.
Regarding Wolf's move-set, I'd like to see something exceedingly brutal...like almost UFC-inspired. No regular punches and kicks. Just take-downs, elbows, backbreakers, and so on. Make him amazing on the ground. Focus his attacks on debilitating the enemy. Make Snake's down-throw look like a hug from a Carebear. If Wolf's a villain, then have him play like one.
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