Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[NairWizard]

Crash's position in the metagame will depend a lot on how he ends up doing vs. swords. Being easy to edgeguard may make him seem volatile, but actually he's one of the most consistent characters in the game--consider that, unless you have a huge disjoint, every time you edgeguard Crash you end up taking at least 30%. Every time, without exception. That's even more consistent than Wolf's low-percent combos or Pika's n-air loops, both of which are subject to DI constraints (sometimes you'll see Tweek's Wolf only get 10% instead of the usual 40 or 50). It's similar to the way that you take damage for trying to juggle Samus as certain characters with limited range like Pikachu--you have to keep eating the down-bs while hitting her). Doing damage this way in disadvantage is way more consistent than having strings in advantage because the character in advantage state is incentivized to help Samus (and Crash!) get full damage output (due to having a winning trade).

This consistency means that, castwide, Crash has some of the highest reward in the game.

But swords can bypass this entirely by swinging at his up-b without risk of trading. Of the sword users, Roy/Chrom/Ike have a harder time doing this, because if Crash manages to sneak past them to the ledge (which his f2 airdodge should let him do fairly often), then they're in a bad spot. Lucina, Shulk, and Palutena just detonate him offstage, though--in Palutena's case, literally, with Explosive Flame forcing an early airdodge or low recovery. Theoretically, with Crash's abysmal air speed, these characters only have to get him offstage once and then he's done, and unlike other characters for whom we say similar things (Cloud, Chrom, etc), Crash losing a stock without inflicting his signature 30% on the way out is a huge loss for him.

It helps that Crash's burst mobility is some of the best in the game, though; a great initial dash paired with a low-profiling dash attack and that beautiful side-b means that he's going to tear through your typical sword zoner in neutral. Shulk and Lucina just can't swing at him for free. Maybe not so much Palutena, though. The invincible dash attack/b-air makes her sword zoning much harder to whiff punish than normal, which is part of the reason that she does better vs. Sheik than your more traditional swordies.

If Crash's whiff punishing against swords is optimized so that he's winning neutral about 3 times as often as he's losing it, then I think he'll be a safe pick for high tier. But without that, I fear that having your most unique trait completely negated by one of the most common archetypes in the game is the hallmark of a lower mid tier character, and Crash may just languish in the lower tiers forever.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

K. Rool needs nerfs.That character is annoying with his gun and crown...And that OP belly armor, counter and burry moves...He can just F-Smash you and you die at any time...This is game is so unbalanced and has no future if they don't change it like now.

Also buff Young Link again, he sucks.

 

[FruitLoop]

So Patch 8.0.0 just dropped with the new Fighters pass characters.

The ARMS character is actually Boog from Fanboy and Chum Chum and they were referring to the char's long ARMS because ARMS itself is a dead game. Crash is a false prophet and actually is NOT in 8.0.0.

Here is his current render. So some people have been labbing on twitter how his bop mechanic works. So essentially if he hits the opponent you can press B in between normals to "BOP" the opponent were you can ground them. He also has an Arsene-mechanic where he grows two extra arms out of nowhere and grows an extra limb on his.... on his..... yea. He essentially slaps the s**t out of everyone ala Jojo and does a Jojo pose. Top level players seem optimistic about his viability but he may struggle against Pikachu due to Pikachu back-air pancaking everything and the Shotos for having all of their moves instantly cancellable so he might struggle in disadvantage a bit. He's a bit of a tall character and kind of heavy so given the current heavies of the meta there's a chance he may drop off. Solid Upper Mid to Bottom of High tier character imo. You can actually DI OUT of his Bop so not every move is an instant bury but Boog has been discovered to angle his bop hitbox so it's more of a 50/50 DI read which makes this character all the more interesting.

Since Patch 8.0.0 dropped out, there are some LARGE patch notes. I listed the patch notes down here exactly:

: Sakurai heard our complaints and decided to reduce the Knockback Growth of Wonderwing. I wonder how that will pan out for Banjo players but it looks like they don't have 15 different win conditions each match so they might have to think out of the box.

: Since bayo mains kept complaining, Forward-Aerial now works like it did in smash 4 and the final hit can kill MUCH earlier while having horizontal knockback. This gives her true 0 to death combos just like in Smash 4. Also all of her aerials have less landing lag and forward-throw now officially kills earlier than Ness Forward-throw. Also Witch Time got buffed to be the same as Smash 4.

: You can no longer randomly fall out of Up-B and Down-B no longer randomly spikes. Also Flame Breath got a damage increase due to the heavy commitment of just using that move sheerly and Tough Guy as a mechanic got buffed but Twitter is still labbing out to what extent. Apparently Bowser F-Smash can now tank a warlock punch? Huh... that's strange?

: No buffs or nerfs but he looks more beaten up. Likely was abused by papa Bowser who may have accidentally mistaked him for a croissant.

: Not on the list but she got some nerfs to her lips. No more intangibility on her lips and I think Dabuz might lowkey drop her. But let's wait and find out!

: The 0 to death on DK got removed and Sakurai realized that Byleth has too much range on their spear so all Spear moves especially Forward-Smash have way less range.

: Despite everyone saying #BuffFalcon. Falcon received nerfs to his up-air striings where now they deal more base Knockback whilst having more endlag making Up-Air Up-Air never a true combo and Falcon now has a longer turnaround animation with more endlag on his Up-B after hitting the opponent and he gains less distance from it making him easier to Rockcrock. It's not all doom and gloom however, Falcon Punch does 5% more damage. So I think the hashtag is kind of working but still nevertheless I believe Falcon will drop in the future 8.0.0 metagame.

: Cloud's Nair and Up-Air are now reverted to Smash 4's size and Finishing Touch has its hitbox working with Limit Cross Slash also gaining more knockback. Up-Special out of shield is now frame 3 just like G&W

: No changes in fact I think the character got deleted from like 5 patches ago. If i gained a nickel for everytime I fought a Corrin main in Smash Ultimate, I'd have 2 nickels but it would be weird because of the fact that it even occured twice.

: Bananas no longer trip and now just do knockback and a little bit of damage on the ground just like if the opponent is in the air. Bananas can still trip Diddy if it was his own property (That's something to note because If you throw your own banana at another Diddy in the ditto they still won't trip but they can catch it and still trip YOU). Also all the 3.1.0 buffs got reverted and Down-Throw has more endlag preventing any combo strings.

: All of Donkey Kong's moves are now always unsafe on hit except for Back-Air. Also Giant Punch and grounded Up-Special no longer have armor and headbutt no longer grounds and just does typical damage and knockback without any kill power or combo prowess while also no longer spiking in the air. I think the new degree angle was like 45 or something?

: Due to the pandemic happening in the world today. Dr. Mario decided to leave Smash Ultimate all together to find a cure. Dr. Phil now replaces Dr. Mario but only the 6 Dr. Mario mains in the world will notice!

: All 3 Duck Hunt mains rejoice! Now when someone gets shot from the outside world via Duck Hunt's smash attacks it now instakills and leaves the opponent in a coma. This is an ACTUAL gun and actually is using a fake gun. Duck Hunt is the REAL deal.

: Due to common complaints by falco mains, Up-Smash and other multihits now connect like they should. However Up-Tilt now has significantly more endlag and is now officially unsafe on hit while dealing little knockback and set knockback so it's 100% useless as a move. Back-Air now no longer kills and Back-Throw and Up-Throw while working now still never kill as well. Also Falco's lasers are laggier and he jumps way less high.

: Now has all of Melee's Shine property and you can now wavedash just as easily like in melee which is now exclusive to fox. Up-Aerial and Up-Smash deal more knockback and Up-Throw can now chaingrab as the regrab invincibility limit is exclusively removed. Also he now has all of Melee Fox's voice clips and double shorthop laser is now a thing again.

: Due to complaints from low level players and online players, Ganondorf's smash attacks now kill WAAAAAAY later. Also his nair has more landing lag due to complaints from people by month 1.

: I'm not gonna say it... I'm not gonna SAY IT!

: Command Select has now been fully removed and now was changed to always be kaclang due to RNG complaints. Crits no longer exist and you have to roll a dice before a set and if you get a 6 you are able to play as and you have to roll a D8 in order to choose the alts!

: Idk what the patch notes say but according to ice climber players the wobbling from Brawl is back and apparently Nana and Popo can now transcend god or something with an unblockable screenwide hitbox that kills at 0 if you get the conditions right with Blizzard but who knows lol.

: Due to Ike dropping on the tier lists. Nair now is screenwide so MKLeo can pick him up again.

: Now is a MUCH faster character and revenge stacks twice as fast but because Revenge does a little more base knockback after hitting the opponent is viewed as a much worse char in 8.0.0 according to players. All 4 of them...

: Up-Throw Up-Air got removed and Roller no longer grounds opponents and instead does set knockback that doesn't kill or combo. Also you can't jump cancel out of roller anymore so its a full commitment vs shields.

: Due to complaints from low level and casual players. Fishing Rod has now been removed. Since it's widely considered one of the best moves in the game, expect to be less prominent this patch. Solid mid tier still though!

: Rest now kills at 0 and you now get up-throw rest and Melee Back-Air while you don't turnaround after using it. Down-Air has way more range and no landing lag making Drill Rest always a true combo no matter what and Jiggs is also faster on the ground. While certainly seems better, idk how the char is gonna deal with swords so they'll likely be low tier again.

: The character actually got removed and MKLeo got sucked into Smash and now does all of Joker's moves for him. Except unlike MKleo uses an actual gun and he's pointing at you and MUGGING you out of your own pocket money and you are now forced to forfeit the set. It is borderline illegal to do Bracket Manipulation in tournaments but since it's in-game it's allowed but barely.

: Due to week 1 complaints and being considered too op for wifi because of his frame 29 reflectable gordo that doesn't function properly. Gordo now comes out twice as slow and the game now has a mechanic that will tell through scanning your brain (or lack thereof) if you meant to throw out a hitbox vs the gordo and if you meant to do it then it'll throw back the gordo at mach 10 speed instantly at and it will always double hit him for 30%. now has only 4 jumps and no longer gets armor on his Up-B. Also Inhale no longer sucks up projectiles to prevent any Sakurai biases.

: All 6.0.0 buffs got reverted back and Down-throw no longer buries and just slams the opponent down to send them upwards. New Down-Throw has no combo opportunities and K Rool's Up-B no longer has a hitbox but rather a weak windox that actually sucks you slightly into K rool making him easier to edge guard because a lot of people had complaints not being able to spike him directly. Also K Rool no longer slightly low profiles while dashing due to complaints from amateur game magazines that make shadey untrue tier lists that could even make Eventhubs blush.

: To also prevent sakurai bias, Kirby no longer has functional hitboxes on any of his moves and up-special no longer grabs ledges. Also Stone never kills and has way more endlag due to complaints from low level players.

: Due to link not being braindead enough for Smash 4 For Glory Link players. Forward-Smash now comes out instantly and Neutral-Aerial no longer has landing lag which allows Link player to finally mash more than a Roy main.

: Now always has instant KO Punch and using neutral-b always gives the uppercut. The uppercut has less startup and endlag and kills earlier while in the air whist having armor. Little Mac now is a floaty and can go back onstage easily and Up-Special now goes twice as high. Despite this players still believe he's the worst in the game because he still cannot regain his side-b back after getting hit so the patch notes didn't fix his main problems.

: May or may have not been buffed because the patch notes were done in minecraft enchanting table language but I went to a Furrycord to gain their insight on how much better or worse is and one of them said "The blue ball move is pretty good" so i'll just leave it at that.

: Down-Throw now indefinitely buries. mains will still convince you that he doesn't have a bury throw and it's still an aesthetic.

: Due to complaints, Luigi's Down-Throw no longer combos into anything and Tornado no longer has invincibility or kill power. Also Up-Special kills WAY less early with less knockback growth and base knockback respectively while also having a damage reduction.

: I do not support Italian mafia members so I will not talk about this character anymore.

: Since tippers look really powerful, all tippers now deal less damage and knockback and have even smaller hitboxes than before. Maybe that'll give a chance to shine.

: No actual changes but she may as well be 2 tiers higher now that is less relevant. She's still outclassed by the hero king however....

: Lemons are now actual pngs of actual stock images of lemons. He also got turned into a pickle, funniest s**t i've ever seen so I'll count that as a buff.

: Due to complaints from Brawl players back in the brawl dadys. received more nerfs where all of his moves have half as much range as before 8.0.0 and are even more dysfunctional for multihits. Jab no longer does knockback and barely does damage making it fully unsafe on hit and a huge commitment.

: The entire character got turned into a multitude of different tails that are connected off of 's main tail to make him look like an abomination or a lab experiment gone wrong to truly make smash seem more realistic and because I hate tails and the more the tail the worse the i'm counting that as a nerf.

: While no changes were done. Politicians decided to host debates inside of smash due to Quarantine dressed up as virtual miis (specifically Mii brawler in case anyone gets out of line and deserves a smackdown) and Twitch chat can spectate the live debates. While talking about completely taboo things inside of twitch most of the twitch chat will say something along the lines of "pog" or "my wife left me" even if it has nothing to do with the actual political topic.

: Due to complaints from all 3 mains saying that Gale Strike comes out on frame 20 and Gale Strike to Hero Spin/Up-Aerial is unreliable. Gale Strike now comes out frame 3 and Hero spin has twice the hitbox size while having more knockback and Up-Aerial now has more kill power as well making Gale Strike to Hero Spin/Up-Aerial a kill confirm that always works and starts killing at around 40. The character is now much faster and has twice the sword range in general. Still will be considered low tier by mains and no one will still pick the character up.

Sans (No emote smh): Now replaced with Sr Pelo's underpants variant and all of his moves were replaced with slaps which are REALLLLLLY op and have super big screenwide hitboxes that kill at 0 while also having screams that damage the opponent's ears which you can use to throw the opponent off-guard to kill them irl. Probably the biggest winner of the patch.

: Due to complaints from Facebook Moms making the claim that Mr. Game and Watch looks like a blackfaced version of Greg Heffley from the popular Diary of a Wimpy kid series. 's default costume is officially just Greg Heffley. In compensation the feather appearance on Forward-Smash got added. Also Up-B OoS now comes out Frame 1 and has set knockback and Chef now no longer has lag in between the 3 different food items you throw out. Also due to complaints about Month 1 having a bad forward-aerial, you can no longer trade with Forward-Air and it now comes out frame 5 and kills earlier and is even safer on shield with less landing lag. Also it stuns making it easier for Day 1 Forward-Air twitter combos.


: PK Fire now indefinitely holds the opponent in place and lasts forever and there's no escape. There's no escape from the sweet release of death....

: The man is done with your s**t and complaining about Solomar being useless so he no longer uses Pikmin and instead transforms into a macho super buff man that will attack you with his sheer muscles. I'd definitely say that got BUFFED ))))))))))))


: Due to Sakurai wanting to please SSF2 Pac-Man players. Z-Dropping Galagas now indefinitely stay in place as an active hitbox that is grabbable by the opponent with the right conditions but if you really wanted to you can just spend the entire time as charging and catching galagas and z-dropping them for your own sociopathic pleasure. You can now instantly regrab all fruits by throwing the fruit and INSTANTLY pressing A afterwards and now has an infinite side-b recovery glitch on Kalos if you hug a wall. Also trampoline now always instabreaks hydrant and fruits/hydrants can bounce on the trampoline and they go higher. Also gets a ton of screenwide glitchy hitbox and gets a Ness Melee Yo-Yo glitch with his key just like in SSF2.

: Down-Throw got reverted to before 7.0.0 and Palutena is now fully invincible when using Dash Attack and Back-Aerial. Neutral-Aerial can now infinite the entire cast with ease and all of her aerials have way less landing lag. Also you can use Up-Smash and then cancel its endlag with a dash with Up-Smash still staying in place whilst the hitbox lasts 5x as long giving you ways to throw the opponent INTO the Up-Smash.

: All of her hitboxes stopped functioning and she loses float.

: Same as but I like her more so I will still be generous and just say she got buffed.

: Due to complaints about pre-3.1.0 . All electric moves deal WAY more damage to and he gets no dragdown Back-Air properties and most of the buffs from melee got removed making this mostly melee with more self-damage and without the up-throw chaingrab and the worse nair.

: Since ESAM wouldn't stop saying Pika busted. Pikachu now is slower than and all Lightning Loops got removed. The character is much bigger as well. However you still get pancaking Back-Air due to an oversight so he's still considered busted and invalidates almost the entire cast.

:

Better wait a minute.
Ya better hold the phone.
Ya better mind your manners.
Better change your tone.

Don't you threaten me son.
You got a lot of gall.
We gonna do things my way.
Or we won't do things at all.

Ya don't know what you're messin' with.
You got no idea.
Ya don't know what you're lookin' at
When you're lookin' here.

Ya don't know what you're up against,
No, no way, no how.
You don't know what you're messin' with,
But I'm gonna tell you now!

Get this straight!
I'm just a mean green mother from outer space
and I'm bad.
I'm just a mean green mother from outer space
and it looks like you been had.
I'm just a mean green mother from outer space,
So get off my back, 'n get out my face,
'Cause I'm mean and green
And I am bad.

Wanna save your skin boy?
You wanna save your hide?
You wanna see tomorrow? (Ha-Ha!)
You better step aside.
Better take a tip boy.
Want some good advice?
Ya better take it easy,
'Cause you're walkin' on thin ice.

Ya don't know what you're dealin' with.
No, you never did.
Ya don't know what you're lookin' at,
But that's tough *****, kid!

The Lion don't sleep tonight,
And if you pull his tail, he roars.
Ya say, "That ain't fair?"
Ya say, "That ain't nice?"
Ya know what I say? "Up yours!"

Watch me now!
I'm just a mean green mother from outer space
And I'm bad.
I'm just a mean green mother, a real disgrace,
And you've got me fightin' mad.
I'm just a mean green mother from outer space,
Gonna trash your ass! Gonna rock this place!
I'm mean and green,
And I am bad.

Don't talk to me about old King-Kong.
You think he's the worst? Well, you're thinkin' wrong.
Don't talk to me about Frankenstein.
He got a temper? -HA!- He ain't got mine.

You know I don't come from no black lagoon.
I'm from past the stars and beyond the moon.
You can keep the thing,
Keep the it,
Keep the creature, they don't mean s**t!

I got garden style, major moves.
I got the stuff, and I think that proves,
You better move it out! Nature calls!
You got the point? I'm gonna bust your balls!

Here it comes!
I'm just a mean green mother from outer space
And I'm bad.
I'm just a mean green mother from outer space
A real hard case. You can't beat this trouble, man.
I'm just a mean green mother from outer space
So just give it up. It's all over, ace.
I'm mean and green.
(Mean green mother from outer space.)
I'm mean and green.
(Mean green mother from outer space.)
I'm mean and green.
(Mean green mother from outer space.)
And I...am...bad!

: They got no patch notes but they got a new sitcom for together for when is away. Pilot episode has saying the Fword and is trying to recope with his clone to make sure he isn't hazardous to society. The pilot failed because it turns out that both characters were illiterate and couldn't read their lines right so the actual final product was incoherent and was arguably more butched up than Tommy Wiseau's "The Room" except unironically.

: No changes but got turned Green to make him look like an actual turtle while also not looking like the evolution of according to some mentally inept children. also got hired to be the 5th turtle of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and there was a petition to call the new TMNT spin-off "Teenage Mutant Ninja Squirtles" because the internet likes to be SOOOOOOOOOOO creative.

: Due to complaints and memes from 8 months ago. Up-Aerial and Down-Aerial were all completely removed and replaced with 's Up and Down-Aerial.

: Due to PT players still thinking that is the weakest pokemon and often like to call him useless. Flare Blitz now instakills and DDee ended up breaking the entire PGR with his high IQ Flare Blitz plays.

: No changes. He's been too distracted to go to the buffs station because he was playing too much Animal Crossing: New Horizons.

: Playing now turns all of your games into either Gyromite or Stack Up. He will also be taking over the world and grow 100x big so I'd say in terms of destruction when he's in advantage makes him a 100000x more menacing threat.

: Now has the actual Bird called Robin for a head but no actual other changes except for that.

: Apparently reverted to Smash 4 but I can't read Minecraft Enchanting Table or understand the galaxy brain of most mains so I'll leave it at that.

: Now has a mechanic where the harder you mash your controller the stronger Roy gets and he's also in turbo mode always.

: You can finally use him as an actual browser for the Nintendo Switch and it takes up way less RAM than opening 3 tabs of Google Chrom so I'd say it's a pretty big buff for the Nintendo Switch as a system.

: 8.0.0 basically buffed everything and now transcends space and time as we know it. Also he can cancel everything into everything like turbo mode but even better

: Same thing as but Shoryuken busted so we'll all think he's the better character but Shotocord still debates which one is better.

: Wifi connection with Samus players got nerfed which is a huge buff for these two characters. Also they finally get SSF2's Z-Air which means that their Z-Air now comes out frame 1, autocombos into charge shot, has 2 frames of landing lag, pierces through the opponent, has a ton of hitstun, and it allows for you to fully drift back while being completely safe on shield and unchallengable. Also they have better airspeed than puff to stay accurate to SSF2's vision.

: Now does 1.15% damage for each hit instead of 1%. is no longer as much of a pacifist anymore yay!

: No direct changes but according to a patch there was an indirect exploit that shulk mains use called the ETHEIOAGEONVNDJVNXJKZEOBIWOEVWE which allows to auto-win each match. Also do the Konami code frame 1 right before the match starts to gain 99 stocks if its a stock match.

: They now also do Jojo poses which I think is a huge buff. Especially Richter.

: Why is his butt so small now!

: Alongside players, player's wifi connections are now naturally weaker this patch which is a huge buff for the blue blur. Also he can now shield cancel his spin dash and all of his hitboxes now function properly. Also his design is now the old version of the Sonic Movie's Manhog.

: Jab Jab PowerDunk can now true combo into another Jab Jab Power Dunk and he will also be a moral compass for people in need where he asks them if they are OK to ensure they are always feelinng happy and because of how Keanu Chungus Wholesome 100 that is I'm more than convinced that is a changed man for the better. Essentially the Mr. Rogers of Smash now! Truly a Quality of Life change!

: Every toon link main now gets the "Toon Link sipping on a cup of Coffee" profile picture and because it makes them sound all the more high iq and trustworthy it obviously buffs their skill. Also on an unrelated note Toon Link is also confirmed to be a new boss for the Cuphead DLC where he uses the King of Red Lions as a Boss Phase because he too is a toon.

: The Killager meme got brought back up after 3 years of being dead and I think that's a huge nerf for our lives.

: Now always gets waft instantly and it now kills at 0. All of his hitboxes work and mains still think he's dropping off because he has no neutral.

: With the pandemic happening, managed to improve her quality of life by stretching those legs INDOORS. This is a nice buff to her self-esteem and overall body image.

: Laser now comes out frame 1 and has no endlag. He also reveals that his eyepatch was only to make him look cool which is an interesting revelation.

: Due to Sakurai hating us all, Yoshi now has his entire kit buffed and all of his moves are disjointed while being a generally faster character that has a MUCH smaller hurtbox with bigger hitboxes. All of his moves now pancake and Yoshi's shield now has indefinite shield health. Also his tongue range is bigger and his grab comes out frame 6 instead of 14.

: Literally got buffs for no reason just like in 7.0.0, All of his moves have even less lag and hit much harder. Fire arrows now home in on people.

: SSF2 Zelda is now ported with double shorthop Back-Air lightning kicks that are bigger and Jab now stuns and is safe on shield and is bigger and combos into everything. The character is faster and the only change from Ultimate Zelda that gets added in is the better Up-Tilt and access to Phantom.

: Due to Marss saying in a tweet that "ZSS Sucks". now has all of the down-throw combos from Smash 4 and had her flip kick ground the opponent just as long as before 7.0.0 if not longer. Flip Kick now makes fully invincible for the entire time and it's fully safe on shield and mains will still try to convince you that Flip Kick doesn't deserve nerfs and anyone who disagrees otherwise doesn't deserve to talk about balancing and will instead just say "Buff Low Tiers, never nerf Top Tiers". Also King_Chris officially wins EVO 2020 offline using ONLY Flip Kick.


For the TL;DR Version of the changed characters:

 

[Rizen]

The meta's too volatile to put out a tier list but I can give you the objectively top 3 characters: and .
's a no brainer. He can kill you at 60% off moves bigger than Lucina's sword. He also has a command grab infinite on everyone where he can chain flame choke into more flame chokes. Best character in the game hands down.
has a lot going for him: armor, f4 jab, a great grab game, arguably the best recovery of the super heavies and he lives for-freaking-ever. There's no way he's any lower than top tier.
may be light but that's never stopped anyone before. She can wall of pain anyone offstage for kills at any %. She also has rest that Dair combos into and kills at absurdly low %s. Sure it has lag if it misses but that shouldn't happen in high level play.

Now these characters don't exactly have top tier results but they have something better: theory. In theory no one beats them and that's what counts.

 

[SwagGuy99]

After spending about 5 minutes thinking about it, I have come to the conclusion that is clearly the one of the best characters in the game. He doesn't need or to help him, since he has literally everything he needs. His ground movement is totally insane and his f-smash kills at 60% if its changed. He also has an extra jump mid air and his up-b travels way higher than and . Also he's heavy. His power and ground speed combined is literally everything a character needs to be good in Super Smash Brothers Ultimate for the Nintendo Switch. Sure his air speed and air acceleration are average, and he's a huge target, but if has taught us anything, it's that some poor attributes doesn't mean a character is bad. He also has solid matchups against most characters due to his lightning fast ground speed and his huge range on up-smash and f-air.


You may be asking, where are his results then? People don't play they only play boring characters like or . I think I know the answer: It's because all of the mains wanted to play only but couldn't handle the sheer power of playing him, and were forced to co-main him with and to keep his power in check.

I think in the future, if players manage to train themselves to handle the power of the mighty , maybe he could be the one and only best character in the game, even better than .

 

[StrangeKitten]

There's no doubt about it, is the best character in the game. Smash Ultimate is simply too fast; every other character is unwieldy because of their speed. There's just no good way to control , , or for example. They're forced to miss almost every attack they use because they're too fast. Comboing and escaping disadvantage with them is downright impossible. Incineroar is the only character who controls well thanks to his slow speed.

Projectiles are worthless in Ultimate. Far too unsafe. This hurts characters who have projectiles, which is a good 90% of the cast. I'm glad Sakurai never gave Incineroar a projectile, as it would have made his neutral much worse. But projectiles are especially worthless vs Incineroar, who can just Revenge them. Revenge should be nerfed because it has far too few weaknesses. Why is there nothing the opponent can do to remove it?

And then there's recovery. Incineroar's is second-best to, well, at this point we all know who I'm going to talk about. 's recovery is a clear step up from everyone else's. But, as with most other characters, he struggles in neutral due to being far too fast. Mac is also far too polarizing to work; I really wish they'd buff his terrible grounded game and nerf his overpowered aerials to make him a more-well rounded character (also wish KO Punch killed earlier, but I digress). Since Incineroar does not have these issues, he's the better character overall. I can't believe they let such a broken recovery make it past the testing stages. They seriously need to nerf the distances that both Alolan Whip and Cross Chop travel. I feel so bad for , , and players, who try to make their terrible recoveries work.

As to the couple posts above me, I agree on , , and , but disagree on .

is blessed with speed about as slow as 's, so he controls almost as smoothly. He's thankful that he lacks projectiles, too. I still think Incineroar is better overall, but Ganondorf's access to the best neutral B in the game, Warlock Punch, is a good enough reason to play him. Makes me feel bad for players; their neutral B is awful.

is a rare example of a character in Ultimate whose projectiles are actually usable. He's just slow enough to work really well in the meta. K Rool's up air in particular is amazing because it has so much endlag.

's grounded speed is almost on par with Incineroar's, which would be enough to make her the better character, but she just can't go deep offstage at all. Making it back from anywhere is what keeps Incineroar as the current best. In addition, Puff's fast airspeed is, like all fast characters, too unwieldy. She simply can't take to the air. Puff has the second-best neutral B in the game going for her, though.

, however, is simply too fast on the ground to make the top cut. Still probably the best of PT's three Pokemon, though, especially thanks to how amazing Flare Blitz is. is slow enough to control well, but is held back by having a projectile. Poor is borderline unplayable and by far the worst of the three.

 

[SwagGuy99]

, however, is simply too fast on the ground to make the top cut. Still probably the best of PT's three Pokemon, though, especially thanks to how amazing Flare Blitz is. is slow enough to control well, but is held back by having a projectile. Poor is borderline unplayable and by far the worst of the three.

I agree that his speed can be far too fast to control. If players didn't co-main him with and , they wouldn't be able to handle it. It seems like it would take them years of practice to learn how to control this unwieldy beast.

Another character I believe we have been overlooking is . Not only does he (sorry players, all 2 of you) have long range and access to the coolest looking moves in Smash Ultimate, he also is rather slow, making him much easier to control, like . He does have one or two moves that cause him to move fast for a quick second (his up-b and his b-air) but this is made up for by him having a move that stops him entirely (side-b). Having a move that can stop him entirely allows Corrin to stop himself to assess a certain situation. Many of Corrins moves also have a bit of lag when using them so you don't get overwhelmed by the idea of doing complicated combos in the middle of a battle. Just one or two hits at a time. Finally, she has the best counter in the game. It has so much range after she counters an attack, something that totally makes up for it's poor knockback growth and initial hitbox on startup.

 

[boysilver400]

is going to be a major problem in the meta going forward. He succ and cuccs people way too easily and its too hard to mash out. Inhale needs some major endlag. Hammer also kills way too early, kills at 0!!!! Nerf this character

 

[BitBitio]

Well folks, they fixed Lylat. They removed the ledges entirely so you can’t accidentally grab them (indirectly buffing ), they reduced the blastline size, and they increased the angle of the slopes. Any character whose recovery doesn’t instantly snap the ledge is now top tier (since there is no ledge.) Therefore are the now the best characters in the game. Additionally, the now universally accepted stage list includes only Lylat.

People will still say is better than Chrom because of his recovery, though.

 

[Nobie]

I've gotten word that there was a mistake made about the new Smash DLC character.

It's not a character from ARMS, it's a character from ARM WRESTLING.

I don't know who they'll choose, but I think a robot Frankenstein is exactly the kind of character that could give Smash competitive play some real variety.

 

[The_Bookworm]

People are going to look in this thread in the future, go to page 387 and 388, and be like: "Did the people in this thread finally lose their minds?"

My response: "No, we ascended that day."

 

[FruitLoop]

People are going to look in this thread in the future, go to page 387 and 388, and be like: "Did the people in this thread finally lose their minds?"

My response: "No, we ascended that day."

I busted 14 nuts into my toaster

 

[ZephyrZ]

What are you supposed to do against Kirby players who keep spamming down special? Timmy at school keeps beating everyone with it. I tried switching to K.Rool and sucking him off stage but he just did the same to me instead.

I think the only way to beat it is to get the Smash Ball, but since Kirby can fly he always gets it first. Its so stupid.

 

[Arthur97]

Well folks, they fixed Lylat. They removed the ledges entirely so you can’t accidentally grab them (indirectly buffing ), they reduced the blastline size, and they increased the angle of the slopes. Any character whose recovery doesn’t instantly snap the ledge is now top tier (since there is no ledge.) Therefore are the now the best characters in the game. Additionally, the now universally accepted stage list includes only Lylat.

People will still say is better than Chrom because of his recovery, though.

I mean, Roy can end up not snapping to ledge more often then you might think.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Grunkle Stan is so ovepowered. He is not what he seems. We shouldn't have to buy gold in order to beat anyone playing him.

Really, Meta Knight is the only viable character against him, and yet he still needs to be buffed. His sword needs to attack x1000 times faster in order to win.

Buff Crash, too

 

[Thinkaman]

I said to my wife, "You know? I'm glad the world collectively looked at one another during this dumpster fire and said 'Yeah, let's not do April Fool's this year. Let's just take 2020 off.' Good call, everybody."

Anyway, what's happening on Smashboards?

donaldgloverwalkingintotheapartmentwithpizza.gif

 

[FruitLoop]

I said to my wife, "You know? I'm glad the world collectively looked at one another during this dumpster fire and said 'Yeah, let's not do April Fool's this year. Let's just take 2020 off.' Good call, everybody."

Anyway, what's happening on Smashboards?

donaldgloverwalkingintotheapartmentwithpizza.gif

Boog got added, G&W got replaced by Greg Heffley from Diary of a Wimpy Kid and Dr. Mario got replaced by Phil Swift and Joker/Corrin were removed. Also some big patch notes happened yesterday so I think I gotchu all covered.

 

[ZephyrZ]

So to gey discussion back on track, what are people's thoughts on ? He's kind of gone from one of the popular contenders for one of the worse characters in the game to one no one ever talks about.

I don't have much time to do a really in depth analysis and I know little about the character to begin with, but I did just watch this interesting set.

https://youtu.be/feqT3r0-Ams
(Bonus - you also get some Shulk gameplay to study)

He's what stood out to be about the match up.

- Ludwig was really vulnerable off stage, but he had a ton of ways to mix it up to keep him from being edgeguarded consistently.

- Shulk's massive hitboxes limited how much Ludwig could abuse Side B as well as his own disjoints.

- Ludwig's ledgetrapping seemed really strong, thanks to down special set ups. He was also able to make good use of that move when escaping platforms.

- His grab combos were certainly potent, but actually getting the grab seemed like a lot of trouble for poor Ludwig. At least it was really rewarding for him when he did.

- Overall Bowser Jr seems like a character who's dependant on his side special to really stand out in neutral and disadvantage, and if a character (like Shulk) has the tools to consistently challenge that move it seems like the match will be a huge uphill battle for him. But that's just what I got off of watching a single set - I could be way off mark here. What does everyone else think?

 

[Lacrimosa]

I said to my wife, "You know? I'm glad the world collectively looked at one another during this dumpster fire and said 'Yeah, let's not do April Fool's this year. Let's just take 2020 off.' Good call, everybody."

Anyway, what's happening on Smashboards?

donaldgloverwalkingintotheapartmentwithpizza.gif

Zelda still needs buffs.
Nothing else is relevant.

:3

 

[FruitLoop]

So to gey discussion back on track, what are people's thoughts on ? He's kind of gone from one of the popular contenders for one of the worse characters in the game to one no one ever talks about.

I don't have much time to do a really in depth analysis and I know little about the character to begin with, but I did just watch this interesting set.

https://youtu.be/feqT3r0-Ams
(Bonus - you also get some Shulk gameplay to study)

He's what stood out to be about the match up.

- Ludwig was really vulnerable off stage, but he had a ton of ways to mix it up to keep him from being edgeguarded consistently.

- Shulk's massive hitboxes limited how much Ludwig could abuse Side B as well as his own disjoints.

- Ludwig's ledgetrapping seemed really strong, thanks to down special set ups. He was also able to make good use of that move when escaping platforms.

- His grab combos were certainly potent, but actually getting the grab seemed like a lot of trouble for poor Ludwig. At least it was really rewarding for him when he did.

- Overall Bowser Jr seems like a character who's dependant on his side special to really stand out in neutral and disadvantage, and if a character (like Shulk) has the tools to consistently challenge that move it seems like the match will be a huge uphill battle for him. But that's just what I got off of watching a single set - I could be way off mark here. What does everyone else think?

Overall Bowser Jr is a generally "fine" character, or at least is a character that has shown to be "not terrible" like most people's initial impressions but that could be due to a lack of discussion.

Bowser Jr is a character that I feel like suffers in the context that he's a little too slow to really consistently get the opponent to be threatened at mid-range which is where I feel like Bowser Jr succeeds the best. He seems to have to use Clown Kart a lot to really cover that by having a neutral burst option that allows for Bowser Jr to try to get the opponent to challenge his large aerials that have great air to air properties and I do think (i could be wrong) that bowser jr's aerials are pretty safe with good spacing. However since Bowser Jr is forced to jump cancel out of Clown Kart or has to cancel it immediately to sort of cross-up or kill means that against faster characters or characters with good OoS/solid frame data then you can still reliably stuff out most of Bowser Jr's slower hitboxes.

Bowser Jr kind of doesn't get great CQC in a lot of scenarios and having a slow grab (it's range still isnt even that good) really doesn't help since he really REALLY wants that grab at lower % thanks to how shockingly busted Up-Air is. He has to either pray that the opponent ends up above him and he can reach the opponent within a reliable distance to anti-air without having to use Clown Kart or pray that the opponent buffers a jump. Jab obviously can still be scary at CQC if you play a character that doesn't have uber reliable CQC either or if you mis-space moves or even do too much normal getups at ledge for example thanks to how Bowser Jr's jab kills. However I still feel like Bowser Jr still needs to GET the opponent at that mid-range to get his gameplan to work.

Bowser Jr. definitely has admirable win conditions and clearly has showcased a great advantage state and having a mixture of Cannonball and the slow yet still solid Mechakoopa does at least allow for some variety for whether or not Bowser Jr wants to make the decision to approach or not in some matchups or if he wants to do some projectile wars. However a lot of the times it still feels like "Use Clown Kart Dash if the opponent forces you to approach and fade back with your largest air-to air aerial" and Bowser Jr has to really make sure that his opponents are at least less spacially aware of their surroundings while they either land or shorthop around Bowser Jr since you really only get Up-Tilt and Up-Air to really catch those landings and truly showcase Bowser Jr's best strengths.

Certainly a still fine character and a character that's still functional (I know you can still gimp him out of his up-b but you get such a solid recovery regardless to the point where it doesn't even matter). Probably around the lower end of Mid tier for me. I can't see this character being fully solo-viable for people who recognize the matchup well since a part of Bowser Jr's success may come from the "matchup inexperience" factor given how obscure he is but you get a bit more flexibility than most low/bottom tiers such as Ganondorf or DDD and you at least have actual STUFF compared to other underwhelming low tiers like Isabelle.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Tweek's new tier list. He's not doing it by results, just what he thinks of every character's potential.

 

[SwagGuy99]

So to gey discussion back on track, what are people's thoughts on ? He's kind of gone from one of the popular contenders for one of the worse characters in the game to one no one ever talks about.

I don't have much time to do a really in depth analysis and I know little about the character to begin with, but I did just watch this interesting set.

https://youtu.be/feqT3r0-Ams
(Bonus - you also get some Shulk gameplay to study)

He's what stood out to be about the match up.

- Ludwig was really vulnerable off stage, but he had a ton of ways to mix it up to keep him from being edgeguarded consistently.

- Shulk's massive hitboxes limited how much Ludwig could abuse Side B as well as his own disjoints.

- Ludwig's ledgetrapping seemed really strong, thanks to down special set ups. He was also able to make good use of that move when escaping platforms.

- His grab combos were certainly potent, but actually getting the grab seemed like a lot of trouble for poor Ludwig. At least it was really rewarding for him when he did.

- Overall Bowser Jr seems like a character who's dependant on his side special to really stand out in neutral and disadvantage, and if a character (like Shulk) has the tools to consistently challenge that move it seems like the match will be a huge uphill battle for him. But that's just what I got off of watching a single set - I could be way off mark here. What does everyone else think?

IMO, a lot of the struggle that has comes from the fact that his disadvantage state isn't the greatest, especially not against rushdown characters that won't give him an opportunity to play neutral . His neutral isn't bad per-say, but it's kind of predictable, since his only best options are side-b and maybe down-b and since you can shield down-b, it's safe to assume that he's going to go for side-b most of the time, which is something you can anticipate. He's also pretty easy to juggle and combo for a lot of characters which doesn't help him either.

However, once this character finds an opening, he's actually pretty good. His up-air is pretty much a disjointed version of Mario's. It has slightly more startup, slightly more landing lag, and less safety on shield, but is also has less endlag, a more active frames, and just as much ability to combo into itself as Mario's. His up-throw is a decent move to set up into up-air as is side-b in some situations. His recovery also isn't that bad if he is playing against a character who can't easily edgeguard him if he recovers low. His side-b and up-b travel far and while he sometimes can get gimped by moves like Roy's d-tilt if they hit him when out of his up-b, his recovery is able to be mixed up enough to at least be considered passable IMO despite the weakness. He's also a heavyweight and he's not too terribly slow despite that, which is good. His kill power is really good as well. F-smash, rapid-jab, up-smash, up-b, and b-air, are all pretty good kill options, with rapid-jab especially sticking out due to it's ludicrously high kill power at the ledge. The last really good thing I think Bowser Jr. has is his edgeguarding. D-air, down-b, and n-air, are all good options he has to edgeguard. He also has d-tilt at the ledge which is good for catching an opponent trying to grab the ledge as well.

Overall, I don't think this character is terrible. His gameplan in advantage state is way more functional than , even if his disadvantage still isn't that great, he has some solid matchups against a few of the better characters ( and ) as well having OK matchups against a decent amount of the lower tiers. His strengths shine through much more than in Smash 4 and this character feels like a character who could be explored further in the meta. Not a top tier or a high tier IMO, but I could reasonably see him being somewhere in mid tier as a solid counterpick.

 

[Das Koopa]

What character would you guys guess is the most & least used in moderate-to-high level competitive play? Let's say this is represented by power rankings worldwide. Asking for research purposes (im unironically using that question lol)

 

[The_Bookworm]

What character would you guys guess is the most & least used in moderate-to-high level competitive play? Let's say this is represented by power rankings worldwide. Asking for research purposes (im unironically using that question lol)

For least used character from what I can tell: . There are a lot of other rare characters, like and more, but the first 4 mentioned is by far the rarest.

For most used, I came up with: . There are also quite a bit of other common characters like and many more, but the first 5 mentioned is probably the most common, at least in my opinion.

 

[SwagGuy99]

What character would you guys guess is the most & least used in moderate-to-high level competitive play? Let's say this is represented by power rankings worldwide. Asking for research purposes (im unironically using that question lol)

IMO least used overall I'd say and .

Most used I'd guess .

We'll see if I'm right.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

What character would you guys guess is the most & least used in moderate-to-high level competitive play? Let's say this is represented by power rankings worldwide. Asking for research purposes (im unironically using that question lol)

Too many to narrow down but by mod-high level I assume your talking on the State PR, place fairly well at regional events, sometimes makes a rather decent placement at larger tournaments area?

Usually you see a healthy mix at those levels. since play isn’t optimized yet it’s a bit more forgiving for what would generally be considered high tiers. (Characters like Ness, the Shotos, Link, Yoshi, etc) who don’t get exploited as hard when the players aren’t as good compared to top level players. The environment is more comfortable for them and they are still great characters who can and regularly do well in levels above them. You do see weaker characters ( Say what is generally considered Mid tier and lower) for this same reason but it’s definitely not close that much more significant over top level play, it’s not uncommon to see Lucas or Wii Fit on alot of state PRs at very high placements.

You of course still see plenty of top tiers, more forgiving or less technical ones like ROB (Don’t kid yourself because “bad disadvantage” a character with that kit is quite forgiving), Wolf and Palu are for sure seen more than say Joker but again because play has not been optimized at these levels harder to use characters aren’t going to be seen as much even if they are the best characters in the game unless the character was just that much better than the rest of the roster.

I would absolutely argue you had a lot more Smash 4 Cloud’s than you had Smash 4 Bayos at this level despite Bayo clearly being overwhelmingly number one just because Smash 4 Cloud was that simple to use in comparison without dropping drastically in power compared.

 

[StrangeKitten]

is a very underwhelming character. Slow, recovery that can get exploited at times, and just overall feels quite lacking. He has some stuff going for him for sure; up air strings, rapid jab and lingering smash attacks, and projectiles that, while not that good, can at least hit their mark sometimes. Clown Kart Dash is also pretty decent. But he feels like he's lacking... something. Probably neutral, as it seems kinda bad once your low % up air string ends. Also seems pretty weak to swords, and is no doubt pretty easy to combo for combo-centric characters. I'd say he has just enough going for him to be mid tier, albeit towards the lower end.

 

[Das Koopa]

Too many to narrow down but by mod-high level I assume your talking on the State PR, place fairly well at regional events, sometimes makes a rather decent placement at larger tournaments area?

Usually you see a healthy mix at those levels. since play isn’t optimized yet it’s a bit more forgiving for what would generally be considered high tiers. (Characters like Ness, the Shotos, Link, Yoshi, etc) who don’t get exploited as hard when the players aren’t as good compared to top level players. The environment is more comfortable for them and they are still great characters who can and regularly do well in levels above them. You do see weaker characters ( Say what is generally considered Mid tier and lower) for this same reason but it’s definitely not close that much more significant over top level play, it’s not uncommon to see Lucas or Wii Fit on alot of state PRs at very high placements.

You of course still see plenty of top tiers, more forgiving or less technical ones like ROB (Don’t kid yourself because “bad disadvantage” a character with that kit is quite forgiving), Wolf and Palu are for sure seen more than say Joker but again because play has not been optimized at these levels harder to use characters aren’t going to be seen as much even if they are the best characters in the game unless the character was just that much better than the rest of the roster.

I would absolutely argue you had a lot more Smash 4 Cloud’s than you had Smash 4 Bayos at this level despite Bayo clearly being overwhelmingly number one just because Smash 4 Cloud was that simple to use in comparison without dropping drastically in power compared.

This is really counting all power rankings; this assumes state PRs, large city PRs, and country PRs (or equivalents, ie Shangai and Beijing are city PRs that are comparable to numerous states/provinces)

re Cloud; you are correct. I did a deep dive of smash 4 power rankings about 2 years ago.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oSQH5-qarfwY6IL7d3jFZmVnqcu5O5SyRhvZpV45-J4/edit#gid=0

Cloud was the 2nd most common character. Discussions with people tended towards the conclusion that Bayonetta and Cloud may have been lower than their generally agreed upon positions (1, and 2) because they were released well over a year after the game came out, whereas Diddy Kong immediately established a very large & faithful playerbase on release that only mildly subsided after the April 2015 nerfs. (He remained a top 4 character in stats for the lifetime of the game, even after ZeRo's departure.)

Hopefully by the end of April I can cite these kind of things for Ultimate.

 

[The_Bookworm]

This is really counting all power rankings; this assumes state PRs, large city PRs, and country PRs (or equivalents, ie Shangai and Beijing are city PRs that are comparable to numerous states/provinces)

re Cloud; you are correct. I did a deep dive of smash 4 power rankings about 2 years ago.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oSQH5-qarfwY6IL7d3jFZmVnqcu5O5SyRhvZpV45-J4/edit#gid=0

Cloud was the 2nd most common character. Discussions with people tended towards the conclusion that Bayonetta and Cloud may have been lower than their generally agreed upon positions (1, and 2) because they were released well over a year after the game came out, whereas Diddy Kong immediately established a very large & faithful playerbase on release that only mildly subsided after the April 2015 nerfs. (He remained a top 4 character in stats for the lifetime of the game, even after ZeRo's departure.)

Hopefully by the end of April I can cite these kind of things for Ultimate.

Looking back at this is interesting. In playerbase percentage and power rankings presence, are noticeably higher than everyone else. I would argue that since Bayo and Cloud was only released slightly over a year after SSB4's release, I don't really think time of release really played much factor. There are simply other dumb top tiers as well
However all of that is in the past now. (I am lowkey surprised how much usage had)


Btw, ESAM posted his 7.0 tier list on YouTube.
I thought that I was going to post my tier list here, but then I forgot that we already posted his tier list here a while ago. lol

 

[Frihetsanka]

Pikachu seems to be considered a top 3 character by many top players (see, for instance, Dabuz, Tweek, and ESAM), at least US top players. Also, more top players are considering Shulk a top 5-10 character, interestingly enough. With Cosmos switching to Pikachu we could start seeing more Pikachu results, which will be interesting for sure. Pikachu having a good matchup against many top tiers (and most non-top tiers) makes him a very meta-relevant character, although potentially losing to Mr. Game & Watch and Peach hurts. Ness is hardly much of a meta threat, seems like he was overrated initially (probably not a top 30 character).

 

[NotLiquid]

I welcome the proliferation of Pikachu.

If the character is as much of a problem as people speculate then now's as good of a time as any to see if theoretical counterplay can be upheld under scrutiny. Frankly the pledge of Vol. 2's release schedule comes as a blessing (especially now with results being at an indefinite standstill due to very understandable circumstances); the game's now got close to two more years to prove whether or not certain characters end up disproportionate before the balance team decide to close up shop. With how much the meta's been moving around the last year - this despite a good number of people postulating that the community was wise enough to peg down said meta only a few months into the game's lifespan - the game more than ever needs the benefit of time.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Pikachu seems to be considered a top 3 character by many top players (see, for instance, Dabuz, Tweek, and ESAM), at least US top players. Also, more top players are considering Shulk a top 5-10 character, interestingly enough. With Cosmos switching to Pikachu we could start seeing more Pikachu results, which will be interesting for sure. Pikachu having a good matchup against many top tiers (and most non-top tiers) makes him a very meta-relevant character, although potentially losing to Mr. Game & Watch and Peach hurts. Ness is hardly much of a meta threat, seems like he was overrated initially (probably not a top 30 character).

However, he have to see if Cosmos will do anything with Pikachu. The only thing his Pikachu done so far is reverse 3-0 ESAM in the ditto.
In the other matches against notable players in the Quarantine Series, lost to Raffi-X 3-0 and WaDi 3-1 (with the only game taken being when he switched to Inkling later in the set).

I am still skeptic if Pikachu will retain all the top 5 praises he is receiving right now, especially since SSB4 Pikachu endured a similar phase as well.

 

[|RK|]

A major issue with Pikachu is that everyone who claims he's broken or #1 - with the exception of ESAM - doesn't play him.

It's a weird situation like Inkling, where a bunch of top 15 players will say "this character is literally broken" and supposedly the better you are as a player is the more you'll see it. Issue is, NONE of these players will pick up Pikachu or Inkling.

So either someone will have to step up for both characters and totally shift the meta, or we'll straight up never see how they're supposed to be top 5.

 

[Xenophon of Athens]

I don't think opinions on Inkling are as optimistic as Pikachu right now in the west. Players like Light, Tweek, Samsora and Marss maintain that the character is top 5 but others like ESAM and Void have put Inkling around top 15. And you also have players like Dabuz and Maister putting Inkling in the low 20s, which to me is surprising for Maister coming from a region with strong Inkling players. And than you have the Japanese players putting Inkling in the upper 20s like the recent tier lists made by Paseriman, Eim and Kuro and the other by Tsu, Abadango, Shogun, Takera and Kishiru.

One thing that is consistent in all the Western players tier lists is Pikachu being in top 3. Meanwhile the two Japanese tier lists had Pikachu in top 15 which does show an interesting contrast between how the Japanese pros and Western pros see the meta.

 

[Nobie]

The current Wi-Fi-only competitive environment is giving players the chance to experiment a little more.

Check out the Tamisuma 124 online final, featuring Rizeasu vs. Ron.

Rizeasu naturally plays 4 different characters in one match.

Ron, however, goes with KIRBY.

What a time.

 

[Frihetsanka]

It's a weird situation like Inkling, where a bunch of top 15 players will say "this character is literally broken" and supposedly the better you are as a player is the more you'll see it. Issue is, NONE of these players will pick up Pikachu or Inkling.

Isn't that the case for all potential top 3 character in this game, though? We're not really seeing people flocking to other potential top 3 characters (although, admittedly, more than Pikachu).

 

[Arthur97]

Well, if they don't play the fighter, and they don't fight against the fighter much, how can they know the fighter is top tier? As R.O.B. should prove, real life doesn't always look the same as something does on paper. Part of the problem I have with these pro tier lists is that they aren't experts on most of those fighters. To the credit of some, they will admit that in regards to some fighters, but still, being good at the game in general doesn't mean they have a firm grasp on all the many, many moving parts of Smash.

 

[VodkaHaze]

I think that the main issue is that still has notable weaknesses, such as being very light, lacking range on some moves and inconsistent KO power. People make Pikachu out to be this meta-dominant force, but if that were the case then tons of people would pick it up since people flock to strong characters (and thanks to ESAM, Pikachu has won a supermajor). I would not be surprised if Pikachu is actually very difficult to play at the highest level, especially compared to other characters.

 

[Lacrimosa]

I still stay by what I think since the start of Ultimate: Pikachu is not the best character. This honor may go to ZSS, Peach or Joker, maybe Wario.
Both ZSS and Joker have very consistent results, both in the US and Japan. Peach only(?) in the US. In Europe, it's Wario. Pikachu is in all three regions not really that strong. And by that I mean I don't see Pikachu consistently placing well. And by that, I also include ESAM's placements. Yes, winning an A-tier is nice but he falls short in some tournaments.
On top of that, Pikachu is light and struggles to kill against chars with excellent recoveries ( I can imagine and these are all meta-relevant chars). Pikachu still has really good tech-chases but if he doesn't get these the opponents live for a really long time and he has to rely on Dash attack.
Range is also an issue against swordies( ), I can imagine.
Pikachu still has strengths, like the very small hurtbox and really good recovery and many multihit moves which makes parrying against Pikachu really risky or impossible. And then he has a good combo-game that aren't just Twitter combos.
Pretty much a good character but he has some flaws and the results don't back Pikachu up. He may even be at the end of top-tier...

 

[Nemesis561]

However, he have to see if Cosmos will do anything with Pikachu. The only thing his Pikachu done so far is reverse 3-0 ESAM in the ditto.
In the other matches against notable players in the Quarantine Series, lost to Raffi-X 3-0 and WaDi 3-1 (with the only game taken being when he switched to Inkling later in the set).

I am still skeptic if Pikachu will retain all the top 5 praises he is receiving right now, especially since SSB4 Pikachu endured a similar phase as well.

Cosmos also took 2 sets from Toast at a local right before the whole quarantine thing happened.