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just beat Jw 3-1 at Frostfire to get into GF Winners side beat Blacktwins13 3-2 to win Frostfire
Well I mean be can try to see Top-High Tier Byleth may actullay do good against. The only one I can think of is maybe
Byleth can also possibly deal well with G&W up-b since she has the range to be able to hit his sheild without having to worry about being hit by it.
Samsora was musing about picking up Byelth just for the G&W counterpick seeing as that MU has been the bane of his existence
Tall, lightweight and floaty. Floaty characters are easier for Byleth to match altitude with. Also a bona fide Luma killer with the range and power on Byleth's moves. The positions the princesses want to be in to land their best combos tends to be in side b and and short hop fair range. They can pester from afar with veggies, but not fast enough to stop Byleth from approaching and they themselves don't move quite fast enough to easily slip past him. Wolf thrives on his mid-range game, a range that's exactly where Byleth wants to be. It will mostly come down to who is better and more patient at baiting.
? And maybe the likes of ? I imagine being terrible because of the Speed Monado Art alone. And how would they fare against other mid range fighters as , , ? I'm sort of starting to think these wouldn't be too bad for Byleth either. Theoretically of course.
Both of those execution barriers have answers actually. The first being the thread I've linked before and keep in my signature which lists all percents the current jab combos into every move in her arsenal aside from uair, bair, Fishing Rod and dair although I haven't gone fully into accounting for rage for each character yet. For anyone curious, feel free to click here. As for the second barrier, unless it's been patched out, there's a way to buffer dsmash and presumably usmash and fsmash out of jab which this video mentions around 4:47:
Unless I'm severely misunderstanding, this is not a way to buffer a smash (and no such method exists).
True, but he isn't the only one whose either won or placed high going solo Byleth. They are doing better than most of the DLC in their first week.
I dunno, I feel like a character with poor mobility and bad frame data isn't going to be worth it competitively. Best we get would be being as good as Ike at the start of this game. I feel like Pink Fresh's win is also about not knowing the MU.
Ironically, we keep finding out that Byleth’s kit keeps punishing stuff that seems safe and can go even further with mix-ups and damage output without being super risky.
It turns out that playing the projectile/zoning game is actually great for Byleth as long you don’t have a reflector because their projectiles are faster than super sonic, travel at ridiculous distances, and are non-commitments because they can be canceled. It also means that Byelth’s edgegaurding, tech-chases, frame traps are more likely and that Byelth can mix up like a troll with this move. Their neutral-b is probably a top 10 projectile despite its long start up and reflector weakness. Byleth seems like the slowest character in the game with the most broken moves, yet doesn’t feel cheap or boring as Game and Watch. Another thing to note is that Byleth’s down-b is not useless, it’s the best punish move they can do from a shield break.
Byleth also can kill game and watch with an up-air at 70%.
While this doesn't apply to most characters in Ultimate, with
and (to a degree) and having a big disjoint can heavily affect the MU a lot more than you'd think although I think this more so applies to since his frame data and air movement aren't the best so he can have trouble approaching at times. and maybe , but outside of them, everyone else will probably be even or losing MUs for Byleth. Most characters can either abuse her poor close range options (), run away from her (), outcamp her (), contest her range (), edgeguard her (), or some combination of the three. Granted, some characters like and may have trouble approaching, but Byleth will have the same problem against them so as long as they can land a hit, they should be able to do fine.Byleth’s nair and jab are legitimately way better than any of the swordies fast close-range options. Plus, they are actually supposed to use nair in neutral to start combos, deep edgegaurding, drag downs, shield pressure, sheild poking, and tech situations. They also seem the most consistent at combos than any of the swordies, making Bowser a punching bag.While this doesn't apply to most characters in Ultimate, with
On the topic of Byleth MUs, I don't think her MU spread against high and top tier will end up shaping out to be very good. I can see her doing OK against
out super well, compared to the likes of say, or .
You're talking about a frame 45 move. For comparison to another top projectile, Wolf's blaster ends on f52; Byleth's uncharged arrow ends on f80. That's 28 frames later.
You put Pikachu twice, one for second and one for third. Pretty sure third is Joker.
). (Was the tournament Sparg0 won a B-tier?)
Some rather odd placements, such as
being ranked that low in mid tier (Falcon lower than Bowser Jr.?), in lower mid tier instead of low tier, being ranked literally next to , and in high tier. higher than . I believed that this was the case long ago imo, mainly due to him obtaining more results than Puff (who continues to stagnate), but also his buffs being more helpful to Kirby to address his weaknesses than were Puff's buffs. People were convinced for a long time that Puff was going to be much better thanks to 6.0, but not much has changed since then. and after the buffs. He has been grinding Byleth for a long time now, and the latter two has so far put their buffs to good use (maybe not Zelda yet, but Zelda's results were already decent prior to the buffs).It was C tier.
To be fair, I think he said mid tier was unordered, so he probably doesn't thinkSome rather odd placements, such as
Overall, the list seems alright overall, but it also has some placements that peak my interest.
The first thing is the recent trend of people putting
The other thing is his optimism with Byleth, as well as
It was C tier.
is better than . Also, at the end he dropped and down into mid tier, saying he thinks they're on the cusp of being high tier. buffs. Jesuischoq got 2nd at a PGR event with him, even beating many prominent French players like Leon and Glutonny (though the later beat him 6-0 in GF). Even Ferretkuma is performing better thanks to the buffs. I definitely think Kirby can no longer be a contender for worst character in the game thanks to these results and buffs.
I can't seem to open the link on my computer. Could someone tell me where Wolf and Greninja landed on MKLeo's tier list?
Both A-tier.
That sounds fair.
NairWizard
you don't actually have to bring up shield to cancel Byleth neutral B, you can cancel it with a jump or just by tapping shield, like you can with some of the store-able projectiles
You are not thinking correctly. Byleth’s nair is better because the multi hits actually do combo into other moves and provide way more rewards more consistently than any of the swordies. By landing the nair, they will get a crap ton of damage on whoever is hit, some kill confirms, tech chases, blah blah. The important part is that their nair helps to boost up their rewards much higher than than a couple of pokes (do I have to mention that missing the nair doesn’t leave Byleth vulnerable as Lucina’s up-b and covers the area above and below them?)
Do they...?
We're talking about Byleth nair, right?
Byleth nair does 10.5% and hits people away on landing. Fair and bair tippers do 12.75%/15% and force the target horizontally, where they may be subject to her A+ ledgetrapping game.
No, you don't have to mention that a nair is safer than Lucina's up-b. SolidSense listed it in a comprehensive look at other sword character's (superior) OoS options, but these moves have basically nothing in common.
What? Failnaught is 45f startup.
8f 10f (aerial) 11f 12f 14f/27f 16f 16f 16f/18f/21f 17f 18f 19f 20f 21f 24/28f 25fBruh, Failnaught 2 comes out on frame 114; that's 69 frames after the initial charge window.
There are competent, experienced players offering genuine high-level perspective dissecting the real strengths of Byleth, and using concrete numbers to communicate in clear, non-subjective ways. You are over here talking about punishing dodges with Failnaught 2. Disengage your current mentality, re-read SolidSense's posts, and go master SH fair with Byleth.
**** *
I interpretted this list of 3:
Nah
Thanks for the correction!
Nidtendofreak
I think he's only talking about n-airs OOS, but even then it's hard for me to see Byleth as having the most rewarding OOS/close-range game.
Thinkaman
Thanks for the reply post, saved me a lot of typing. +1 to everything you said (though worth noting that I think Zelda Phantom is much better for what it does).As someone who formally played Zelda, Byelth neutral-b is better because you can cancel it into a defensive option (sheild, nair, or fair). Zelda has to commit hard when she uses the phantom and she can’t troll people with cancellations.
On the last point, I think what he means is:
1. Fire Failnaught 1 as early as possible, i.e., f45
2. Cancel out of the move on f21 or beyond
3. Fire Failnaught 1 after f45 but before it becomes Failnaught 2
But this interpretation implies that B BlackInk misunderstood the mechanics of the move. Evidenced also by:
"It’s a charging projectile, failnaught 2 is just the max charge of the move and it’s not even necessary to use in order to get kills off from failnaught. "
It's not a charging projectile like Samus Charge Shot or Lucario Aura Sphere. It has only two levels of charge. Failnaught 1, or Failnaught 2. No matter what, Failnaught 1 will release on frame 45. Failnaught 2 will release on frame 114.
There is no in between, such as Failnaught 1 releasing on frame 60 to punish a spotdodge. If you stop holding B on frame 15, you're going to fire on frame 45. If you stop holding B on frame 42, you're going to fire on frame 45. If you've passed frame 45, and you stop holding B, you're going to fire on frame 114, no matter what.
Don't think of it as a charge. Think of it as two different moves (similar to the two versions of Samus' side-b), the second of which will never be used.
So either you fire exactly on frame 45, or you cancel. That's it, that's the mixup. Alright as far as mixups go, but not neutral-defining in any sense.
It takes a lot to get me frustrated, but repeatedly half-reasoning based on selective reading does the trick. If this is an attempt to troll (and I can no longer tell, genuinely), it's in really poor taste. If you are being genuine, then where are we mis-communicating, exactly? What parts of the previous posts (mine and Thinkaman's) do you agree with? Are our interpretations of what you intended correct or have we missed something? It'd be nice if you gave us more to work with. I don't intend to be hostile; I'd like to have a frank discussion without bias.
