Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Diddy Kong]

I think Dakpo is the one with all the attention on him. If you watched his set against Gluto, Dakpo played well, but him getting an infinite + Gluto missing two Wafts is a pretty big deal. Gluto didn't miss his set-ending Waft against Nairo and he won because of it.

I can agree with your conclusion of Diddy's classification, only because Dakpo isn't the only one showing up with Diddy though.



Based on the discrepancy of OrionStats and any tier list, someone could make a video series of "Overrated and Underrated" characters, in my opinion. Of course, there would be varying degrees of certainty for some placings (character representation being a big one).

Well yeah I agree. There's more great Diddy players out there. Even Tweek played him at Kongo Saga, and it was a glorious sight to behold. Honestly, Tweek playing Diddy that time gave me that much more confidence in my main. But Dakpo, Legit, and a couple others make him shine too. It's just a shame Diddy struggles so much with things that never where a huge problem, as range, combos, recovery and air speed. Sure airspeed was never great, but right now it's a major weakness. If he had better boxing and get-off-me tools, and Banana had better rewards and was more safe on shield, Diddy would probably preform just as good as other Top Tiers with the same sort of lightweight speedster playstyle. Things like his dash attack being so punishable for the small rewards it gives also don't make sense. It's like the character is still designed around a engine like Brawl / Smash 4. I have the same feeling with Mewtwo, DK and a couple other characters.

 

[KirbySquad101]

I really like this ! Honestly more informative than a tier list.

Wiifittrainer isnt that suprising, shes a very explosive character with substantial limitations. So shes suceltible to make suprising upsets.
On the other hand, players outside of north america have very little exposure to her. Very few top reps exist in Europe or Japan.
(Which makes mr. R surprising to me)

Sinogara is Europe's best wii fit, and I dont believe he is ranked in France. Only nationally ranked ones are in the smaller regions of switzerland and sweden. Japans best is probably kerogutchi who was seeded below 200 at evo. Finally I imagine wadi using her has some effect too.
In other words a lot of disparate factors that are going to shape peoples opinion of her depending on what their exposure to her is.

I'm more curious about the reasoning iplayers deviate so much on jigglypuff and mii swordfighter.

Edit: tried to clean up my thoughts

Thank you! It's always something that's caught my interest, moreso than just a standard tier list lol.

As for , I imagine players are still trying to evaluate the magnitude of her buffs. ESAM and Dabuz in particular are very optimistic about her buffs and have her in the top 40 of their tier lists, while most players have her at 60th or lower (Zackray has her at 72nd).

(and the other Miis) are interesting because a good chunk of players decided to not even rank them (which makes sense, given that they're arguably the least popular characters in the game), so they have less data on them compared to other fighters. Most players don't seem too keen on them, but ZeRo, who's historically viewed as Mii Swordfighter as underrated, placed him fairly highly compared to other players' tier lists (33rd, I believe)

 

[SwagGuy99]

(and the other Miis) are interesting because a good chunk of players decided to not even rank them (which makes sense, given that they're arguably the least popular characters in the game), so they have less data on them compared to other fighters. Most players don't seem too keen on them, but ZeRo, who's historically viewed as Mii Swordfighter as underrated, placed him fairly highly compared to other players' tier lists (33rd, I believe)

I've been playing him a little bit and his moveset feels so weird. I don't think he's bad and he's the best and most adaptable of the three IMO, but he feels like he could be a little bit faster (in terms of frame-data and ground movement). Other than that, he has mediocre kill options but Gale Strike literally negates that since kill confirms at 90% exist depending on which up-b you use. His juggling game with up-air and Gale Strike is actually pretty good and he does have some OK combos but he doesn't really have anything truly amazing outside of his kill confirm out of Gale Strike and his zoning game in general with Gale Strike and Chakram.

He kind of reminds me of Pit but with a worse overall moveset but he has that one really good thing that characters in Ultimate need that Pit lacks in his zoning game and kill confirm. Overall, I'd put him somewhere in the higher end of mid tier although I will say that he probably has the least potential of the three Miis (at least using the 1332 combination which is what I've been messing around with him on).

Edit: I'll go through the English notes when they release and fully summarize the changes. The Japanese ones are really hard to understand lol

 

[FruitLoop]

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/support/switch/software_support/aaab/detail/700_fighter.html

7.0.0 released right now

got her neutral-aerial nerfed to combo worse and her down-throw seems worse for combos according to the patch

got kinda shafted as downwards gun is now worse and you get arsene significantly slower it appears

got a suprising amount of buffs, none of which will fix his big issues which is good to know

got a nerf to her down-special burial time, that's good!

got BIG buffs, working nair + stronger phantom + better Din's Fire and more could actually make her a very solid character which is kind of sad but i guess zelda mains deserve it

suprisingly got some kill power buffs, idk why but yea


Many chars got their shields buffed to be a bit bigger preventing shieldpokes including OLIMAR which is a nice thing to see. Let's see how this patch affects the meta!

 

[TennisBall]

In addition, Ryu/Ken, and Toon Link also got buffed, along with Dr.Mario and some others I'm forgetting.

 

[The_Bookworm]

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/support/switch/software_support/aaab/detail/700_fighter.html

7.0.0 released right now

got her neutral-aerial nerfed to combo worse and her down-throw seems worse for combos according to the patch

got kinda shafted as downwards gun is now worse and you get arsene significantly slower it appears

got a suprising amount of buffs, none of which will fix his big issues which is good to know

got a nerf to her down-special burial time, that's good!

got BIG buffs, working nair + stronger phantom + better Din's Fire and more could actually make her a very solid character which is kind of sad but i guess zelda mains deserve it

suprisingly got some kill power buffs, idk why but yea


Many chars got their shields buffed to be a bit bigger preventing shieldpokes including OLIMAR which is a nice thing to see. Let's see how this patch affects the meta!

I bet the dev team heard about all the Olimar mains complaining about their shields, and thought that almost everyone needs it. lol

Other characters to note:
These two were already at a good position thanks to the efforts of quiK and Joker, but these two got some nice buffs. It is nothing ground-breaking, but interesting to see.
Jab seems like is fixed. That is nice. Makes jab at the ledge a more consistent option. 's jab still cries in the corner though...
Got a some nice QoL buffs, but it doesn't really address any of her main problems. Zelda's buffs seems way more helpful by comparison.
Similarly, the doc got a few buffs to his power and to his down air spike hitbox ( cries in the corner), but power isn't his main issue.
TLInk got a few nice buffs as well. Both YLink's and TLink's buffs are not huge, but are helpful regardless (especially the YLink ones).
The Shotos got even more buffs to their kit, including a new special cancel window with their down smash. Ryu in particular really likes the Hadoken buffs.

Overall, they changed more than I expected. Zelda's buffs are particularly more interesting, while the nice QoL changes to Falcon, TLink, YLink, Samus, the Shotos, and Cloud are nice to see (even though each are all solid characters already).

It is nice to see that Sheik and Dr. Mario get some attention too, but it looks like they kind of missed the mark on their buffs, especially in comparison to Zelda's.

Olimar and big bodied character mains are having a field day in the meantime...

I do think that they did a good job trimming down Palu, Joker, and ZSS while they maintain the things that make them amazing in the first place.
Still confused on why Joker's titanic Tetrakarn hitbox is still maintained though...


Edit: Actually, Falcon's jab wasn't really fixed properly since jab 2 was the main issue.

 

[$.A.F.]

Byleth’s Nair is the same as in the trailer

 

[The_Bookworm]

F-tilt just killed at 70% at the ledge...

SHAKING pic.twitter.com/Q2JAkGL6wh

— zee (@Blun_Z) January 29, 2020

I think I am going to stay away from online for awhile after this...

 

[NotLiquid]

English patch notes are up
https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/48674

 

[BitBitio]

‘S shields are fixed!

 

[Nobie]

Ryu down smash does 20% uncharged and special cancels. Down Smash into Tatsu is 39% at low damage.

YIIIIIKES.

OH, and strong down tilt combos into Hadoken even at high percents.

DOUBLE YIKES.

 

[Krysco]

Quick thing to note: Byleth's down special doesn't have super armor when airborne. Tested it by hitting a Unira and having her land on it while using the move and she consistently got hit. If there is armor at all on the airborne version, it's pretty precise when

 

[SwagGuy99]

Summary of major changes:

Universal

• and all got their shield sizes increased.
• and all got other changes related to their position while in shield.

Character Dependent Buffs

• / Dash attack is stronger, up-smash is stronger, down-smash is stronger, up-throw is stronger, z-air deals more damage and has more active frames.
• Jab 1 connects better into jab 2.
• D-smash is faster and has more range, Sheik's standing grab has more range, Needles have less landing lag, side-b has less endlag and the explosion lasts longer, Up-b launches at a different angle.
• F-tilt is stronger and deals more knockback, n-air connects better and and less landing lag, up-air has more range and the hitbox stays out for longer while the sourspot of the move has decreased damage while the sweetspot has more knockback, side-b lasts longer and deals more damage, down special launches farther and deals more damage.
• My Boy F-tilt has increased damage and knockback, down-tilt deals less knockback and has more hitstun, n-air sweetspot deals more damage and knockback, d-air lasts longer (as a Doc secondary, this might be a big change as will the down-tilt one), up-b deals more knockback.
• Jab has faster startup, up-smash, up-air and up-throw all deal more knockback, z-air is faster, launches at a different angle, and has more hitstun.
• Dash attack has less lag, down-smash deals more knockback, b-air has less lag (why? This move was already really good), d-air sourspot deals more damage and knockback.
• Side-b 3 grabs easier.
• Jab traps opponents better? (not sure about this one).
• / D-tilt launches at a different angle, down-smash cancels into special moves (WTF this is probably really good), neutral-b has more shieldstun and and the hits connect easier, leg invincibility on side-b and deals more knockback and damage on the sweetspot.
• Dash attack is deals more knockback on the sweetspot, f-smash connects easier, up-smash deals more damage on the sweetspot and is faster, up-b grabs the ledge easier, limit charges faster.
• Opponents are knocked farther away if side-b fails.

Character Dependent Nerfs

• Down-b bury time was reduced.
• Aerial guns have less range, Arsene doesn't stay out for as long.

Mix of buffs and nerfs

• up-tilt deals more damage and knockback, d-smash deals more knockback, n-air deals less knockback, down-throw launches farther (big nerf?).
  

So, IMO, and / were the biggest winners of the patch since their changes seem like they will matter the most. Nintendo's patch notes kind of suck so I'm sure I probably got some things wrong.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Ryu down smash does 20% uncharged and special cancels. Down Smash into Tatsu is 39% at low damage.

YIIIIIKES.

OH, and strong down tilt combos into Hadoken even at high percents.

DOUBLE YIKES.

There's more.

YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS pic.twitter.com/mgo5Er7BnT

— Liquid | Riddles (@RiddlesMK) January 29, 2020

Ryu no longer noticeably worse than Ken/Terry. YES!

---------------------------------------------------

On a side note, the Palutena nerfs might actually end helping her more in the end ironically.
1) Up tilt got straight up buffed.
2) N-air decreased knockback makes it combo for longer.
3) People are actually finding KO confirms with Palu's down throw nerf ironically enough.

N-air not KO'ing until later and smaller final nair hitbox does hurt, but Palu is very likely still top 3. Same with Joker.

---------------------------------------------------

Already, the labbers is proving how devastating Byleth's up B is. Ryuga has even found a 0-death combo on DK.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

It doesn't work on Bowser btw.

 

[Lore]

Byleth is a bit crazy, to be honest. Wouldn't be surprised to see her end up as the best heavy character.

 

[StoicPhantom]

Of course my views could just be tainted because I follow meru. And even though he secondaries her, he has a pretty low opinion on her.

That's probably the case. There's a split in the Zelda base, with one half convinced she's low tier and the other half the ones who are actually doing well with her. What should be noted is that she's rarely placed worse than top 64 in most of the majors. Not just with one or two but with multiple players. Not to mention two top 24 placements as well, and could probably be higher if ven would stop running into top 10 PGR players all the time.

She's solid to begin with and these buffs help smooth out some of her few rough edges. I don't think they will change the opinion of those who still think she's low tier all that much though.

 

[SwagGuy99]

Byleth is a bit crazy, to be honest. Wouldn't be surprised to see her end up as the best heavy character.

Byleth isn't a heavyweight. She weighs the same as Luigi and Shulk. That's not good.

 

[Lore]

Byleth isn't a heavyweight. She weighs the same as Luigi and Shulk. That's not good.

Oof. Started noticing that shortly after my last post.

 

[SwagGuy99]

Overall, this is my opinion on how this patch will affect characters going foreward

Overall, I feel like will benefit the most out of the patch. Young Link/Samus z-air's are really good now and Young Link has gained some good kill confirms from this patch with Samus has also gained a kill throw as well. Ken/Ryu also got some good changes as well.

I feel like got some very noticeable changes, but they weren't necessarily the changes they needed. However, with ZSS and Joker being nerfed, that could help these guys as well so I do see these guys being better in the long run.

While got some buffs, he didn't need any of them and most of them are just QOL changes. Other than that, the other characters ranked in that tier () got some very minor and reletively unimportant buffs.

WHY DID THEY BUFF SOME OF s MOVES THAT MAKES NO SENSE.

and got some slight nerfs to their best moves but nothing extremely major. ZSS down-b is still good in disadvantage and guns are still OK.

Also, if someone wants to tell me what was changed with , I'd love to know.

 

[Aaron1997]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Can also cancel charging his Down smash into a special.

's Jab is better with getting 2-3% more damage from it then before. Especially vs big characters.

's infinite vs seems to be gone now

Palutena Nair

Frame 24 (Final multi hit)
New hitboxes added that overwrite hitboxes
Angle: 367/367/100/95 -> 367/367/100/100
BKB: 0
FKB: 0/0/65/80 -> 65
KBG: 100

Hitboxes for aerial opponents (367 angle)
Additional hitstun frames: -13 lol

— Ruben (@Ruben_dal) January 29, 2020

Also all there shields being bigger might of just buffed OOS options because now characters might be hitting people's shields 2-3 frames faster then before when they are coming down and a little higher in the air when they hit the shield.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

Not sure what to make of Byleth so far. She more fun that I expected her to be and she feels fine to control despite being slow as all hell. Her frame data is kinda all over the place with ridiculous strong smashes that are rather slow yet cover a ton of space and solid tilts that all seem to accomplish the jobs you’d want tilts to accomplish. Down tilt allowing for combos, ftilt and up tilt seem to be solid standard sword tilts. The jab is frame 4 and jab one isn’t disjointed which may hurt a bit when trying to box people out. (It’s hitbox doesn’t even seem to cover their entire fist.)

Aerials all seem pretty nice, if a bit laggy, down air is so slow but the shield damage and stun is so absurd it might not be the worst option you’d expect it to be when Byleth’s about to land. Up air and nair seem to allow for drag down shenanigans, their fair and bair seem to be good moves but the Belmont-like which may be a problem in MUs the opponent doesn’t too much care for Byleth’s ability to control that horizontal space.

Bow doesn’t seem to be good to me, of course these are all rough initial impressions but not being able to angle it really hampers is effectiveness in getting people to approach. Even no charge is easy to react to, deals good shield damage (but you can just jump over it because again they can angle it and don’t have the speed to chase you down before you land.) I don’t see how your supposed to use the full charge to ever threaten anyone, especially if your on a stage with platforms. Good thing they can cancel it but I know the Bow was talked about pre release as their means to get around being camped due to slowness but it doesn’t seem like it will fulfill that function to me.

Again day zero impressions. I’m having fun with them for sure that’s a welcome surprise.

 

[meleebrawler]

Not sure what to make of Byleth so far. She more fun that I expected her to be and she feels fine to control despite being slow as all hell. Her frame data is kinda all over the place with ridiculous strong smashes that are rather slow yet cover a ton of space and solid tilts that all seem to accomplish the jobs you’d want tilts to accomplish. Down tilt allowing for combos, ftilt and up tilt seem to be solid standard sword tilts. The jab is frame 4 and jab one isn’t disjointed which may hurt a bit when trying to box people out. (It’s hitbox doesn’t even seem to cover their entire fist.)

Aerials all seem pretty nice, if a bit laggy, down air is so slow but the shield damage and stun is so absurd it might not be the worst option you’d expect it to be when Byleth’s about to land. Up air and nair seem to allow for drag down shenanigans, their fair and bair seem to be good moves but the Belmont-like which may be a problem in MUs the opponent doesn’t too much care for Byleth’s ability to control that horizontal space.

Bow doesn’t seem to be good to me, of course these are all rough initial impressions but not being able to angle it really hampers is effectiveness in getting people to approach. Even no charge is easy to react to, deals good shield damage (but you can just jump over it because again they can angle it and don’t have the speed to chase you down before you land.) I don’t see how your supposed to use the full charge to ever threaten anyone, especially if your on a stage with platforms. Good thing they can cancel it but I know the Bow was talked about pre release as their means to get around being camped due to slowness but it doesn’t seem like it will fulfill that function to me.

Again day zero impressions. I’m having fun with them for sure that’s a welcome surprise.

I said this before, but the bow is not about camping or zoning. In neutral it's used for baiting with shield cancels so you can either slap them with the lance or go for a whip anti-air. The best times to actually try shooting someone with it are for long distance tech-chases, catching landings on FD and sniping recoveries. The fully charged shot wrecks shields, which is another thing to keep in mind for stages with no platforms.

 

[Nathan Richardson]

After playing against Byleth my first impression is that they are....ok but not fantastic. They do ridiculous damage to shields with one taking them out in one shot, their overall movement is above average and their range is excellent. That said they suffer from serious endlag on their more powerful moves (the shield breaker ends with Byleth getting their weapon temporarily stuck in the stage! That allows for easy punishes). Overall Byleth has excellent range, decent starting frame data but horrific ending lag on most of their moves and their throws are awful! (5%-7% on all throws with nearly no KB or ways to combo into them yeesh).
That said if PT's charizard can keep up with them their speed can't be that good and their frame data can be super random....they're kinda hard to pin down at times.

 

[ZephyrZ]

That said if PT's charizard can keep up with them their speed can't be that good and their frame data can be super random....they're kinda hard to pin down at times.

...You do know that Charizard has a top 10 run speed and top 5 initial dash, right?

Byleth is slow but Charizard is not a good metric to judge that by.

 

[Nathan Richardson]

...You do know that Charizard has a top 10 run speed and top 5 initial dash, right?

Byleth is slow but Charizard is not a good metric to judge that by.

Maybe on the ground but Zard is awful in midair and even there he can keep up with Byleth.

 

[Thinkaman]

Casual hot take: Cast-wide shield fixes are an indirect nerf to Wario and Pikachu, who (more than anyone else) enjoyed aggressive-shield-pressure-poke-into-insane-reward. An argument could be made for Peach or Mario, but not sure I buy that quite as much.

 

[Kaiser19]

You can Up B out of shield with Byleth if someone hits your shield. It'll grab them even if they're on the ground (if they're close to you of course). Useful little tool.

 

[Thinkaman]

Up-B is frame 11, which is less-than-great OoS. (With limited horizontal coverage, mediocre safety, and surprisingly low reward)

Nair is f6 (so 9), and is probably your better option. Grab is also a very respectable f6. That's really all she has.

 

[BitBitio]

After playing against Byleth my first impression is that they are....ok but not fantastic. They do ridiculous damage to shields with one taking them out in one shot, their overall movement is above average and their range is excellent. That said they suffer from serious endlag on their more powerful moves (the shield breaker ends with Byleth getting their weapon temporarily stuck in the stage! That allows for easy punishes). Overall Byleth has excellent range, decent starting frame data but horrific ending lag on most of their moves and their throws are awful! (5%-7% on all throws with nearly no KB or ways to combo into them yeesh).
That said if PT's charizard can keep up with them their speed can't be that good and their frame data can be super random....they're kinda hard to pin down at times.

Uh, Zard has average air speed and super fast dash speed. Lol

 

[KirbySquad101]

I don't know anyone who would even remotely consider buffing or , let alone sooner before buffing (poor guy). Good news for those that happen to main the two, though.

(As someone who pockets Cloud) changes:

- USmash: Start-up reduced (Frame 15 -> 12) and endlag reduced to match (FAF 49 -> 46)
- USmash: Knockback scaling increased on sweetspot (96 -> 105). Kills on FD about 15% earlier (at around 110% now).
- Dash Attack: Knockback scaling increased on early hit (60 -> 70). Kills on FD about 30% earlier (at around 135% now), the move is as strong as 's Dash Attack now, yeesh.
- Climhazzard: Snaps to ledges earlier (frame 28 -> 24).
- Shield size increased
- Limit Charge fills the Limit Gauge much faster (400 frames -> 335); I might've messed up on my counting, but I checked twice to make sure. In other words, it takes a little over a second less time to fully charge it.


I do want to talk about Byleth later on, but holy cow is she a lot of fun. I can't say anything about her viability I don't think I've had this much fun with a DLC character in a long time to be honest lol.

 

[Idon]

Yeah I can safely say that Byleth is not going to be breaking the meta anytime soon. I really can't justify picking him over most other swordies, even Ike or Robin. Don't really think MKLeo is actually going to secondary him for anything anytime soon, lol.

 

[Thinkaman]

Byleth is more like Ganon-meets-Belmont than any "swordy", even Corrin. Like Ness/Lucas, she might be doomed to be eternally compared to characters she doesn't actually play like.

I expect rather polarized matchups, based primarily on how much Byleth's speed and recovery weaknesses can get exploited. Like, Pikachu seems rough, I'd bet her worst matchup. She probably dislikes Wolf and Mario quite a bit.

I ballpark her as bottom third, due to severity of bad matchups against popular, strong characters. But there's a decent amount of good going on for her, especially against taller characters. SHAC fair is an enviable tool. Jab, grab, and nair are all faster than characters with this level of range normally get to enjoy. Arrow is surprisingly useful for a fixed frame 45 projectile. D-tilt, uair, and u-smash are all solid moves I'd be happy to have on most characters.

Side B is the most over- and under-rated move in all the commentary I've seen. It's almost garbage in neutral--it can decidedly stuff a variety of things and do so with solid damage/kill power, it's just that the opponent is probably enjoying a reactive stance against Byleth and is afraid to SH into fairs already. But in matchups where it can disrupt recoveries and edgeguards, and matchups where it can ward off landing traps, it's a pretty valuable move that Byleth is very happy to have around.

Up B has garbage reward, especially at low %s where it essentially puts Byleth in disadvantage. Unless you do it off-stage, where the opponent just flat out dies, even at modest %s. It's way easier to land than a spike, with a fantastic angle+range and attractive 12f startup. (Contrast with Ivysaur's f15.) I'd like to see how it plays out against Snake, which off the cuff seems like the best case for it.

 

[Idon]

Whether you'd like to compare the spear to a belmont whip or the axe to Ganondorf's legs or whatever. Any comparison to any archetype just serves to make her worse by comparison. They've got a toolbox of pretty damn set of moves that on other characters would be amazing. Issue is outside of a very specific set of circumstances, they can't quite make it to the positions they need to be to properly exploit them.

 

[Thinkaman]

Whether you'd like to compare the spear to a belmont whip or the axe to Ganondorf's legs or whatever. Any comparison to any archetype just serves to make her worse by comparison. They've got a toolbox of pretty damn set of moves that on other characters would be amazing. Issue is outside of a very specific set of circumstances, they can't quite make it to the positions they need to be to properly exploit them.

The comparison is not arbitrary--it's a matter of character strengths+weaknesses as they pertain to or effect matchups.

I don't care who Byleth has animations or raw hitboxes like. I do care who she has structural weaknesses like--those are the characters who give us immediate insight (at least a starting point) as to what her matchups will look like.

I think it's a reasonable (and interesting) conclusion that Byleth's matchups will look more like Ganon's than Lucina's. (Independent of Ganon being a weaker character than Lucina)

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Byleth got some mad lags. Just be patient and strike

 

[Lacrimosa]

Uh, Zard has average air speed and super fast dash speed. Lol

Maybe they mean the acceleration which is a different value.
Zard has below average air acceleration.

But both initial dash and then run speed is far above average for Charizard.

Meaning if Charizard has trouble catching up with Byleth, then that's actually a good first impression.

 

[Aaron1997]

Patch 7.0.0 is actually HUGE for Rosalina. Luma has never been buffed like this before.

All of Rosas worst match ups just got a hella easier!

Thanks @8BIT_Nabster for the help!#SSBU #SSBU_Rosa #SSBU_Rosalina pic.twitter.com/EA95hgFn1N

— Wilson (@mrwilsn) January 29, 2020

Shield buffs are huge for Rosa

 

[Krysco]

Oddly enough, Byleth's up special doesn't appear to be a reflectable projectile despite Isabelle's side special and Joker's up special being treated as one. Was able to grab a CPU wearing a Franklin Badge both while they were grounded and while they were airborne. Likely only matters for the Hero MU since otherwise a Hero with Bounce active would be able to go offstage without any fear of getting grabbed. Still doesn't go through shield however.

 

[Iron Maw]

Some Byleth Day 1 tourney matches with Nicko. He went Byleth all bracket (except in the last Wolf match) and got in 3rd.

Byleth's damage and range is some seriously non-trivial stuff you have actually respect to an extent. Down B'd armor and ability to turn around is more useful than you expect. Definitely can’t throw it all the time but it’s good to catch people when they overextent. Dair is also incredible strong, it kills ZSS at 115% from the MIDDLE OF THE STAGE. I don’t think anyone should be challenging that axe without a huge box of their own lol

Some other interesting stuff is that neutral b can go through other projectiles. It’s great snipe tool off stage at high percents too. Side B can beat out focus and just generally command so much space.

Far too early to say where they will end up, but definitely not bottom 10 some that stuff they have. That said their gonna struggle against rushdown as expected, but it's not as bad I thought. Byleth vs Wolf was basically all came down last hit and last stock. Incin match up looking surprising rough tho

EDIT: Nicko actually seems interested in picking him up too

made it to winners semis at hat going mainly byleth

dude i really like how she feels i can see something within this character

def want to try grinding her out and see how far she can go

— Nicko (@2Scoops_Nicko) January 29, 2020

 

[Tri Knight]

I don't know anyone who would even remotely consider buffing or , let alone sooner before buffing (poor guy). Good news for those that happen to main the two, though

I certainly am not complaining YL has a frame 4 jab now apparently and a 2-frame faster Zair and I think that's just swell. And if the Fthrow, Uair, and Usmash KB buffs are significant enough, that could be huge for Young Link.

Some Byleth Day 1 tourney matches with Nicko. He went Byleth all bracket (except in the last Wolf match) and got in 3rd.

Byleth's damage and range is some seriously non-trivial stuff you have actually respect to an extent. Down B'd armor and ability to turn around is more useful than you expect. Definitely can’t throw it all the time but it’s good to catch people when they overextent. Dair is also incredible strong, it kills ZSS at 115% from the MIDDLE OF THE STAGE. I don’t think anyone should be challenging that axe without a huge box of their own lol

Some other interesting stuff is that neutral b can go through other projectiles. It’s great snipe tool off stage at high percents too. Side B can beat out focus and just generally command so much space.

Far too early to say where they will end up, but definitely not bottom 10 some that stuff they have. That said their gonna struggle against rushdown as expected, but it's not as bad I thought. Byleth vs Wolf was basically all came down last hit and last stock. Incin match up looking surprising rough tho

EDIT: Nicko actually seems interested in picking him up too

made it to winners semis at hat going mainly byleth

dude i really like how she feels i can see something within this character

def want to try grinding her out and see how far she can go

— Nicko (@2Scoops_Nicko) January 29, 2020

I have to say that match up knowledge is likely a huge factor to this as well. I know I get my ass whooped by every new character for at least the first week.