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Jab Jab Power Dunk be like that.
but a lot of the neutral interactions in ultimate (nair is a fantastic example) are spurred upon by low interaction mindless buttons that are insanely safe on both shield and whiff. when your opponent has options like the above example,
nair has always been pretty godly though. Just in previous games he lacked any real mobility to really take good advantage of it (the abysmal jumpsquat for example, which made using nair very cumbersome in neutral). It was one of the biggest reasons why my favorite change was the universal jumpsquat going into Ultimate. It was a huge weakness for Link and held him back a lot more than people may realize
Pretty sick, but honestly you don't need it most of the time. It only takes 24 frames. That's less than half a second.
(probably going to Let's Make Big Moves instead)
Tweek got 2nd Place at Kongo Saga the last S-tier major event. So I would not call him washed even if he did not do quite as well in the second season.
But it never seems he can find a character that fully clicks with him, he has a habit of switching to other characters after just one or two underperformance supports what I was saying about YL winning vs the rats and going even with Joker. He got fairly good bracket luck from an MU standpoint.
I notice how Tea's Pac-Man placed 4th at an S tier with Sinji placing at nearly top 8 at this S Tier event! Is Pac shaping up to be a strong contender for top tier? He's clearly been shown to be around the top of high tier for quite some time and really thinking about having multiple pac-man players doing extremely well in big tournaments just solo-playing Pac-Man alone could very much prove that Pac Man may actually be even better than what we may think. Keep in mind that due to this being relatively optimal top level play, people most likely know the matchup quite efficiently. Just some speculation but Pac-Man in top 10 seems more than likely the more the meta progresses. If only he can keep up with dealing with Palutena...Let's Make Big Moves (S Tier)
1st: Nairo
2nd: Dabuz
3rd: kameme
4th: Tea
5th: Marss
5th: MVD
7th: Dark Wizzy
7th: Maister
9th: Light
9th: Cosmos
9th: Samsora
9th: Sinji
13th: Toast
13th: WaDi
13th: Gen
13th: Raffi-X
17th: MuteAce
17th: Wishes
17th: Riddles
17th: Larry Lurr
17th: Goblin
17th: Laid
17th: Zomba
17th: ANTi
25th: Jakal
25th: Tweek
25th: Lui$
25th: VoiD
25th: Uncivil ninja
25th: Venia
25th: Bankai
25th: Epic_Gabriel
33rd: BONK!
33rd: Smokk
33rd: Stocktaker69
33rd: Enzo
33rd: John Numbers
33rd: Sparg0
33rd: Juuuuul
33rd: LingLing
33rd: LeoN
33rd: AceAttorney
33rd: Big D
33rd: Suarez
33rd: SKITTLES!!
33rd: apollo
33rd: Raito
33rd: Frozen
No, I think it's more a case of Tea being one of the top players in the world. This was a good showing for Pac but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Pac is still only 26th on Orion Stats. He's probably the best projectile zoner (unless you count ROB) and a solid high tier but not top tier.
Yeah,
is really good in this game, I've thought for a while he was borderline top tier, but I think we might be at a point where he is a legitimate top tier contender. He has so many good things about him that I don't see him being any lower than Top 20 right now, but I feel like Top 15 is probably realistic for him as well. and evenish matchups against and who are commonly contenders for top 3 characters. and , but the only one who is really problematic is for him is who can wall him out with her disjoints and disrupt all of his projectile shenanigans with her reflector and b-air and dash attack shield's invincibility.
and even to claim victoryIt's not really MU spread. She has an invincible bair, two long range projectiles that hurt setups, a reflector, an invincible dash attack, a Nair that eats weak projectiles, and strong ability to keep characters in disadvantage.So after Nairo's preformance at Lets Make Moves some people are calling Palutena the character that "beats zoners" or defensive charaters. Nairo known for projecitile zoning and/or defensive play like
Palutena does have a very strong MU spread but I do not think she immedealty beats all "zoning" type characters
She has winning MU's vs R.O.B and Pac-Man yes, but I do not think is due to that there projectile zoners. For R.O.B's case any big-body character despises her nair alone, lol. I think the Snake MU is evenish but Nairo just has an amazing track record vs Snake regardless.
Is there even any character than compeltley beats every type on zoning playstyle in this game?
IMOSo after Nairo's preformance at Lets Make Moves some people are calling Palutena the character that "beats zoners" or defensive charaters. Nairo known for projecitile zoning and/or defensive play like
Palutena does have a very strong MU spread but I do not think she immedealty beats all "zoning" type characters
She has winning MU's vs R.O.B and Pac-Man yes, but I do not think is due to that there projectile zoners. For R.O.B's case any big-body character despises her nair alone, lol. I think the Snake MU is evenish but Nairo just has an amazing track record vs Snake regardless.
Is there even any character than compeltley beats every type on zoning playstyle in this game?
vs is either even or slightly in her favor but it's not a terrible MU. YL is a mobile zoner (unlike Pac or DH who like to set up walls and camp in ways that explosive flame wrecks) so he can throw a bunch of angled projectiles in neutral from places she can't reach. YL's projectiles are much faster and less commitment than hers. You just have to be cautious and avoid certain spacing on her horizontal plane. She doesn't have the frame data to abuse her hitboxes in neutral to chase YL down except Nair can be a real pain. Palu does wreck YL hard from advantage with Uair that beats everything he has from underneath. Reflector is an annoyance but also a commitment on her part that can lead to punishes. It mainly means YL can't play long range vs her but he doesn't like that spacing anyway.Another S-tier with Zelda being at 33rd.Let's Make Big Moves (S Tier)
1st: Nairo
2nd: Dabuz
3rd: kameme
4th: Tea
5th: Marss
5th: MVD
7th: Dark Wizzy
7th: Maister
9th: Light
9th: Cosmos
9th: Samsora
9th: Sinji
13th: Toast
13th: WaDi
13th: Gen
13th: Raffi-X
17th: MuteAce
17th: Wishes
17th: Riddles
17th: Larry Lurr
17th: Goblin
17th: Laid
17th: Zomba
17th: ANTi
25th: Jakal
25th: Tweek
25th: Lui$
25th: VoiD
25th: Uncivil ninja
25th: Venia
25th: Bankai
25th: Epic_Gabriel
33rd: BONK!
33rd: Smokk
33rd: Stocktaker69
33rd: Enzo
33rd: John Numbers
33rd: Sparg0
33rd: Juuuuul
33rd: LingLing
33rd: LeoN
33rd: AceAttorney
33rd: Big D
33rd: Suarez
33rd: SKITTLES!!
33rd: apollo
33rd: Raito
33rd: Frozen
I think that all of the space animalsSo after Nairo's preformance at Lets Make Moves some people are calling Palutena the character that "beats zoners" or defensive charaters. Nairo known for projecitile zoning and/or defensive play like
Palutena does have a very strong MU spread but I do not think she immedealty beats all "zoning" type characters
She has winning MU's vs R.O.B and Pac-Man yes, but I do not think is due to that there projectile zoners. For R.O.B's case any big-body character despises her nair alone, lol. I think the Snake MU is evenish but Nairo just has an amazing track record vs Snake regardless.
Is there even any character than compeltley beats every type on zoning playstyle in this game?
// can oftentimes negate a lot of the tools of the mid/low/bottom tier zoners (and even some of the high tier ones as well). Characters like and even and can sometimes really struggle against these three characters because their reflectors and good mobility allow them to work around all of the projectiles in these character's tool kits. It isn't always as one-sided as the zoner/ matchup can feel, but I feel like these matchups are not very good for these characters either way.
I would add Mega Man and Mario to that list.At this point with all the information we have I think that our contenders for top 20 are
Palutena is generally considered one of G&W's (slightly) losing matchups.
Mario is on that list. And why Mega Man? I always thought he was good, but I don’t know if he’s top 20.
in top 16, mkleo does carries the character, in regards to who are bottom tier I dont think it really matter because most of these characters lack players that compete constantly or are good enough to place well, and would still considered bottom tier or low tier if not for their respective loyalist fanbase, there are too many character and too few good players to determine in only a year who is at the very bottom, high and top tier is another discussion because the game is well balanced to claim that top 3 or top 5 doesnt tell much about the metagame and that high and top tier combined makes around 1/4 of the roster atleast, so we should move about these vague description until we see an actually big power gap between the top tiers and the rest of the cast.Some chars I agree with, others not really, namelyAt this point with all the information we have I think that our contenders for top 20 are
And for bottom 20 we have
(Young Eevey mostly)(Ven, Naskino, Myst, AceAttorney)(Varun, Sinogara and at least one more I currently forgot) and (mostly kept). Then some chars that I would've put there are missing ()
