Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Nobie]

Do you have the link to the video? I am sort of curious to see what this is about.

https://youtu.be/A9CYdxVl4eQ

 

[KirbySquad101]

Uhh, dunno about that.
Yes, ESAM is considered the best Pika but he made some serious SDs throughout that set.
If you watch the sets against Cpt. L or Z (a Vegas Pikachu) then you see how much she actually struggles.
So I think this pretty much says that there is a chance but your opponent (in this case Esam) played more than just awful.

That was probably a poor example on my end; a better idea of what I was trying to get at with my point can probably be best visualized with Ven's experience with FOW.

Suppose that Ven would go up against a high-level Ness player around his level that WASN'T FOW (so someone like Gackt or BestNess); given people's overall thoughts on each character, Zelda is generally regarded to be a low-mid tier character, and Ness is regarded to be around a mid-high-tier character. So if ven gathered the same kind of results as a high level Ness player despite playing what's considered to be a worse character, that probably means that ven has much more experience dealing with high tier/top tier threats to get as far as he has with a character like Zelda. In particular, he probably has more experience with Ness than other high-level players, courtesy of FOW. Compare this to a player like BestNess or Gackt, who probably don't fight a lot of lower tier threats or uncommon mid tier characters. If ven were to go up against one of these two players, ven would have the upper hand, despite the difference in tiers; after all, between the two of them, ven is most likely more well-versed in the match-up.

I don't think it's the best solution, but creating a match-up chart with results in mind could be a pretty interesting idea for bringing it outside the realm of theorycraft.

 

[NotLiquid]

Evidently Salem is going to be running Hero at Smash Con, remains to be seen if he's planning to go the distance but already seeing a whole lot of aerial spacing and shuffling the command deck for buffs.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

That was probably a poor example on my end; a better idea of what I was trying to get at with my point can probably be best visualized with Ven's experience with FOW.

Suppose that Ven would go up against a high-level Ness player around his level that WASN'T FOW (so someone like Gackt or BestNess); given people's overall thoughts on each character, Zelda is generally regarded to be a low-mid tier character, and Ness is regarded to be around a mid-high-tier character. So if ven gathered the same kind of results as a high level Ness player despite playing what's considered to be a worse character, that probably means that ven has much more experience dealing with high tier/top tier threats to get as far as he has with a character like Zelda. In particular, he probably has more experience with Ness than other high-level players, courtesy of FOW. Compare this to a player like BestNess or Gackt, who probably don't fight a lot of lower tier threats or uncommon mid tier characters. If ven were to go up against one of these two players, ven would have the upper hand, despite the difference in tiers; after all, between the two of them, ven is most likely more well-versed in the match-up.

I don't think it's the best solution, but creating a match-up chart with results in mind could be a pretty interesting idea for bringing it outside the realm of theorycraft.

That just means Ven is good at the MU not that Zelda is. People are good at MUs their character loses and bad at MUs their character wins that isn’t indicative of the characters ability but rather the player.

 

[BlackInk]

Reminder that it wasn't one huge buff in Smash 4 that made Mewtwo relevant, but several small ones across a series of patches. (Well, that and some meta game development, which I think people tend to understate. People would treat you like you were crazy if you suggested using uncharged/halfcharged Shadow Balls back in the day).

So they are going to pull the same stunts with him then possibly apply them to Bayo, Rosa, and probably Diddy.

 

[KirbySquad101]

That just means Ven is good at the MU not that Zelda is. People are good at MUs their character loses and bad at MUs their character wins that isn’t indicative of the characters ability but rather the player.

The point I'm trying to get at is that a match-up spread that factors in player experience and results is more practical than trying to make a match-up chart based off of skill alone, since skill is an immeasurable concept in of itself.

My point is not about trying prove that Zelda (or any other character that is seen as low tier) is some secret high tier or that she wins against high/top tier characters; in fact, my point isn't even about Zelda at all. I just used her as an example of how a player like ven, a lower mid-tier main with more experience and results against high tier characters (Ness), is more favored to win in a battle against a player like Gackt, a high-tier main who DOESN'T have much experience against lower mid-tier characters.

There are limits to this, as this type of match-up analysis only works under the assumption that players have equal results backing them up. This is why I used the ven example, since his seeding and results are generally on par with Ness players like BestNess and FOW.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Yeah, I can't wait. Salem is going to be showcasing our first case of viability for Hero and whether his detractors who want him gone, may be right.

If there's some upset of Salem vs a top 10 player because of RNG that'll be fun.

 

[Rizen]

being even with is an interesting opinion that I'm not sure I've seen a lot of people have. I think DK is better than most people do but I still don't think the matchup is that good for him (in fact, I think it's very bad). I'd be curious to hear your opinion on that.

First off I am somewhat biased because our best player co-mains .

A lot of it is character tool interaction. has several things doesn't like. Unlike many heavies he has great air speed (12th place) and run speed (26th) and swordsman level frame data with a f5 jab, f5-7 tilts, F6Uair and F7 Bair. DK has a lot of arm and head intangibility on these moves giving him an odd disjointed effect. His endlag isn't bad either. So DK might have a hard time getting through projectiles but he can move fast and hit fast. This is also very dangerous when YL's in disadvantage.

YL's aerial juggling consists of throwing a bomb up to bait an airdodge and punishing it with Uair. But DK's fast air speed means he can manuver to the side and get around this and cover his landing with a Bair. YL's Uair pokes up directly above YL but doesn't have an arc so YL can't keep DK airborn like other characters.
Similarly YL lacks a spike so he can't instantly kill DK when recovering.

DK has a great grab game that deals a lot of damage and kills at high %s with cargo throw offstage. That's always a plus.

There's also a huge survival difference between DK and YL. DK being a super heavy lives easily past 160%.
_______
YL has several advantages of his own keeping it even.

DK's a big hurt box with no projectile or reflector so YL can zone him with projectiles hard, but not as hard as certain heavyweights. YL generally controls the pace of the match and although he can't punish DK as hard as some characters he still has a strong advantage. YL's angling projectiles means he can hop around platforms throwing boomerang at angles, bombs down on DK and fire arrows are very fast so YL can always cover himself unlike say Falco who shoots strait ahead.

YL's landing game is extremely hard to punish except for a read so YL can Dair shields and bounce or FF F/N/Bair and roll away if he hits a shield.

Nair is F4 and an amazing aerial GTFO attack. Seriously this is the reason YL is as good as he is.

While DK's Bair is fast and good, his Fair is slow and situational so DK's forced to RAR or lose to YL which makes approaching a bit harder.

DK's head intangibility on Uair is a pain but he doesn't have huge arcing hitboxes like Lucina or Ike and needs precision to pressure YL in advantage.

____________
So, especially considering how much longer DK survives it ends up about even imo. DK generally does the best of the super heavies.

 

[Das Koopa]

There's actually quite a number of times I've noticed mains of characters and even those who don't main, focus way too much on one poor aspect of a character and act like if just the one issue was fixed then suddenly the character would be completely viable. I'm sure in some cases it's true but in other cases, I question it.

I've seen it with mains on Twitter, carrying someone to either the top or side blastzone and then wondering why uair or fair don't kill when it should be clear this many months in that the dev team designed her to be able to wrack up damage that way but generally not kill. It does mean she struggles to kill overall and I'm sure she would be a better character with a buff to uair or fair but it should be clear after Smash 4 that that's not going to happen.

Bayonetta has like, bottom 5 kill options at best though. She absolutely struggles to kill overall, her setups aren't consistent, and even her damage building is inconsistent since sometimes people will fall out, or often can just DI down and away. It's clear the dev team wanted to give her strengths and weaknesses like "rack up damage > struggle to kill" but they overdid it on the latter since her best option (back air) can just be shielded.

 

[Anomika]

They really didn't do Bayonetta justice in terms of her KO power. Her Nair is among the weakest in the game, if not the weakest. Yeah it was probably done to prevent her to KO early with her combo and finish it with nair, but Mario can survive if launched from the centre stage at 250%! It shouldn't be that weak. Uair is also the same. It's so weak. While I do think that it shouldn't be her main KO moves, if the opponent is about to touch the blast zone and they still survive at high percentages, then her moves are clearly weak. I don't want her to have zero-to-deaths but they should still dampen some of her nerfs a bit more. I don't think she needs significant buffs to be viable.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

The point I'm trying to get at is that a match-up spread that factors in player experience and results is more practical than trying to make a match-up chart based off of skill alone, since skill is an immeasurable concept in of itself.

My point is not about trying prove that Zelda (or any other character that is seen as low tier) is some secret high tier or that she wins against high/top tier characters; in fact, my point isn't even about Zelda at all. I just used her as an example of how a player like ven, a lower mid-tier main with more experience and results against high tier characters (Ness), is more favored to win in a battle against a player like Gackt, a high-tier main who DOESN'T have much experience against lower mid-tier characters.

There are limits to this, as this type of match-up analysis only works under the assumption that players have equal results backing them up. This is why I used the ven example, since his seeding and results are generally on par with Ness players like BestNess and FOW.

I’m well aware of what point you were trying to make and I’m aware the point wasn’t about Zelda, you used her as an example much like I did myself. What I was saying was that MU charts based off player experience isn’t necessarily any more accurate than one based off actual numbers because personal experience varies widely while numbers don’t. If a player is well versed in a particular MU and does well in it when no other player does who are equally versed in the same MU that’s not indicative of that characters ability at that point and is a statement on the player.

 

[|RK|]

Sidebar, the eternal mid-tier known as Bowser defeated Mr. R's Chrom and Snake.

 

[Kokiden]

For another stealth change:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

He accidentally listed Makarakarn as "Tetrakarn", but we already covered that stealth change.
The change to Grappling Hook is to fix him sometimes clipping in the stage with his up B.

Ivysaur's Vine Whip also got a change that fixes an issue where its up B would randomly fail to grab the ledge.

I don't really understand this. Can you explain the changes? I'm not sure if they're good or bad,

 

[Wunderwaft]

I'm going to go against the grain and disagree with Lucina being one of Wario's worst matchups. It's not a particularly great one, but we've seen it play out at high level play multiple times. In particular, Tweek has notable wins vs MKleo, and as old as those matchups may be, they're still examples of a matchup Wario can play through.

As for characters who don't give him that wiggle room, look no further than Duck Hunt Dog. An abysmal matchup, from front to back. Wario struggles to break his zoning and go for the big damage combos and struggles to build consistent damage vs him. Gluttony's match vs Raito was the perfect example of this, since had to rely on the Waft in order to even take a game off him. DHD and Megaman are Wario's worst matchups.

Truth be told Wario is doable at any match-up and I don't believe there are any match-ups where he absolutely loses, it's just that certain match-ups make him struggle to get in. Wario has the potential to win every match-up because of waft. Granted I don't have much experience with the Duck Hunt match-up so I can't comment on it sadly.

As for the Mega Man match-up I'm unsure on the verdict, since it seems this match-up depends on the play style of the Wario player. If it's an aggressive Wario then this match-up is much more doable than it might seem at first. Nair 1 beats out lemons and Wario can constantly stay on Mega Man's face if he knows what he's doing. The bike is a valuable tool in here since it helps Wario close the distance between the two and cover himself from Mega Man's projectiles. Like I said, I believe this match-up is dependent on the play style of the Wario player, which is why there isn't a clear victor in this match-up.

Lucina is a much more clear match-up and it's obvious that Lucina has the edge regardless of if the Wario player is campy or aggressive. Her aerials beat out Wario's and she can safely poke at him. The only choice that Wario can do in this match-up is bait and punish. Actually now that I think about it, I believe Palutena is an even worse match-up than Lucina. She has tons of options that she can use against Wario. Unlike Lucina, if Wario starts camping then she doesn't need to approach and she can simply start harassing him with projectiles, thus forcing Wario to approach. And if Wario plays aggressively then she can beat his aerials with her own aerials, particularity nair and bair. Lucina might have better disjoints, but Palutena has far more options to cover Wario's strategy.

 

[Kokiden]

They really didn't do Bayonetta justice in terms of her KO power. Her Nair is among the weakest in the game, if not the weakest. Yeah it was probably done to prevent her to KO early with her combo and finish it with nair, but Mario can survive if launched from the centre stage at 250%! It shouldn't be that weak. Uair is also the same. It's so weak. While I do think that it shouldn't be her main KO moves, if the opponent is about to touch the blast zone and they still survive at high percentages, then her moves are clearly weak. I don't want her to have zero-to-deaths but they should still dampen some of her nerfs a bit more. I don't think she needs significant buffs to be viable.

We can only hope, but it's looking unlikely at this point.

It really annoys me when people who scream nerfs get their wish eventually. Nintendo obliging this group is a danger to every good character in this game. I still fear for Joker and am torn between elation and misgivings whenever MKLeo wins a tourney with him.

The fact that people fear a character being nerfed for being good goes to show the balance team can mess up the meta if they so please on a whim.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I don't really understand this. Can you explain the changes? I'm not sure if they're good or bad,

Basically, there is a rare glitch where Grappling Hook would make Joker clip into the walls of the stage when grabbing on to the ledge.
The Makarakarn change basically means the move's detection radius for activation has been marginally increased, making it slightly easier for the move to detect a projectile coming above him.

These two above stealth changes are very minor, inconsequential buffs to Joker.

For the Ivysaur stealth change, there was a rare glitch where Vine Whip would sometimes fail to grab the ledge when it should've. That fortunately has appeared to have been fixed.

 

[Kokiden]

Basically, there is a rare glitch where Grappling Hook would make Joker clip into the walls of the stage when grabbing on to the ledge.
The Makarakarn change basically means the move's detection radius for activation has been marginally increased, making it slightly easier for the move to detect a projectile coming above him.

These two above stealth changes are very minor, inconsequential buffs to Joker.

For the Ivysaur stealth change, there was a rare glitch where Vine Whip would sometimes fail to grab the ledge when it should've. That fortunately has appeared to have been fixed.

Ah I see. Thank you.

 

[KirbySquad101]

I’m well aware of what point you were trying to make and I’m aware the point wasn’t about Zelda, you used her as an example much like I did myself. What I was saying was that MU charts based off player experience isn’t necessarily any more accurate than one based off actual numbers because personal experience varies widely while numbers don’t. If a player is well versed in a particular MU and does well in it when no other player does who are equally versed in the same MU that’s not indicative of that characters ability at that point and is a statement on the player.

I'll agree it definitely has its own share of problems, especially in the sense that it's hard to generalize the same level of experience that all players with similar results have. A contrary point to what I made could be that unlike Gackt or BestNess, FOW has a ton of experience with Zelda, meaning that his match-up with her would look a lot different.

However, I think the point of the adjusted match-up chart isn't necessarily to provide context about the characters involved, but rather help predict the outcome of a certain match; it helps put things into perspective as to why so much upsets occur, especially when you see stuff like Maister's GnW defeating Abadango's Palutena when in theory the match-up kinda sucks for GnW.

You do have a point there that it's less about the characters involved compared to a traditional match-up chart, which does make it a little less reliable if you're looking for stuff about that.

 

[Rizen]

Truth be told Wario is doable at any match-up and I don't believe there are any match-ups where he absolutely loses, it's just that certain match-ups make him struggle to get in. Wario has the potential to win every match-up because of waft. Granted I don't have much experience with the Duck Hunt match-up so I can't comment on it sadly.

As for the Mega Man match-up I'm unsure on the verdict, since it seems this match-up depends on the play style of the Wario player. If it's an aggressive Wario then this match-up is much more doable than it might seem at first. Nair 1 beats out lemons and Wario can constantly stay on Mega Man's face if he knows what he's doing. The bike is a valuable tool in here since it helps Wario close the distance between the two and cover himself from Mega Man's projectiles. Like I said, I believe this match-up is dependent on the play style of the Wario player, which is why there isn't a clear victor in this match-up.

Lucina is a much more clear match-up and it's obvious that Lucina has the edge regardless of if the Wario player is campy or aggressive. Her aerials beat out Wario's and she can safely poke at him. The only choice that Wario can do in this match-up is bait and punish. Actually now that I think about it, I believe Palutena is an even worse match-up than Lucina. She has tons of options that she can use against Wario. Unlike Lucina, if Wario starts camping then she doesn't need to approach and she can simply start harassing him with projectiles, thus forcing Wario to approach. And if Wario plays aggressively then she can beat his aerials with her own aerials, particularity nair and bair. Lucina might have better disjoints, but Palutena has far more options to cover Wario's strategy.

Would you say Palutena is Wario's worst MU?

 

[DelugeFGC]

In my experience using Wario, any character who can outmaneuver him, outspace him and zone him is a potential annoyance. Palutena has all three, so I could definitely see her being one of if not his absolute worst MU. The Hero also seems to be somewhat of a struggle for Wario too, because the Hero essentially has multiple Waft-esque (moves that can kill you stupid early with little effort) spells, zoning tools, spacing tools and everything else. The only thing Wario likes about that matchup is that he generally wins out against The Hero's frame data (and is just overall better in the air than him), but everything else about it seems to be a nightmare.

When you give Wario's clutch factor (Waft and moves like it, plus other examples like Arsene with Joker) to another character, and they fight, Wario doesn't seem to like it. Joker isn't a fantastic MU for him either. But The Hero and Palu are definitely the two that come to mind most.

I however am not a Wario main, though I have secondary'd the character on and off since launch inside of competitive settings, so I feel my opinion isn't totally worthless on the subject. Palutena has a convenient answer to literally everything Wario does, so I say her being his worst (or at least one of his worst) MU's is a definite given.

 

[Lacrimosa]

Sidebar, the eternal mid-tier known as Bowser defeated Mr. R's Chrom and Snake.

By that point, I don't think that's MU inexperience anymore. Or you're just overly naive.
Bowser is a character you have to know the MU against him but even then I doubt he'll drop down into the forgotten pool of characters.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Would you say Palutena is Wario's worst MU?

Potentially yeah
She seems to counter Wario very hard and I find her to be the trickiest character for Wario to get into. You are forced to play differently when fighting Palutena. You can't camp because she'll just throw projectiles at you. You can't be aggressive because her nair beats every aerial you throw at her. Her aerials are superior to yours in range so you can't just willy nilly use an nair otherwise you'll be eating her nair instead. You have to space against Palutena well and use the fastest punish you can when possible.

Out of every other match-up in the game this is the one that I find Wario struggle in the most, mainly because Palutena has the tools to handle Wario no matter where he is or what he's doing.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Super Smash Con 2019 doubles

1st: Marss Light
2nd: MkLeo Javi
3rd: BestNess Lui$
4th: ESAM MVD
5th: Puppeh Zackray
5th: Tweek Samsora
7th: Wrath SaltOne
7th: Salem Dark Wizzy

 

[Megamang]

Interesting to see ESAM get 4th in doubles, though everyone above him is obviously super skilled. He's a bit of a doubles specialist, or at least is very good at dubs + has a strong static partner in MVD.


I can imagine that team works really well too, tiny character + snake means he can avoid friendly fire while covering a LOT.

In 4, pika's multihits were amazing for doubles because it gave your partner all the time in the world to go in and confirm something out of your hits. Not sure if it works as well in 4. And pika does pretty well vs Wolf/Fox/ZSS so he was in a good spot. I see the Mario/Ness team as the biggest obstacle for ESAM.


This is just some guesses at the results here, I am going to go back and watch doubles. I lost in doubles a Plantutena team, Palu's multihits set up really well, and forcing airdodges with projectiles got me hit a lot on the landing but EF can't be clanked out.


I love doubles, I hope they gain some steam in this game because they seem less loved. The safe hitboxes/aerials may make them a bit spammy, but the 1v1 damage multiplier being gone is really really helpful IMO.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I know that this is completely unrelated to Ultimate (nothing really eventful is going on in Ultimate anyways since we are still in pools), but over in the SSB4 side of things, a Mii Brawler player named Sells got 5th place using a custom Brawler (I believe that the custom set is 2322).

Something interesting to point out, considering that I think this is the first time in about 4 years that custom moves are allowed in a SSB4 tournament.

Also, Dabuz won the whole event without dropping a set. The master of consistency he is indeed.

SSB4's knockback looks so slow now after getting used to Ultimate's balloon knockback. lol

 

[Lacrimosa]

Did anyone see Ven vs. Light?
Apparently, it was a 2-1 according to smash.gg.
Kinda gives me hope that not everything is lost when it comes to
Going 2-1 vs. a Top 10 PGR player in a bad MU () is quite nice tbh.

 

[NotLiquid]

Did anyone see Ven vs. Light?
Apparently, it was a 2-1 according to smash.gg.
Kinda gives me hope that not everything is lost when it comes to
Going 2-1 vs. a Top 10 PGR player in a bad MU () is quite nice tbh.

It was 2-0, though that first game was last hit situation.

Anyways, Greninja has had a rough start to Smash Con. iStudying, Stroder and Jw have all been sent to Losers fairly early.
EDIT: Stroder eliminated at 65th by Ned.

Conversely, my worst fears are starting to materialize and Yoshi has started to show relatively strongly. I feel like people have been legitimately snoozing on him for the better while and his ability to out-button 90% of the entire cast.

 

[Anomika]

You suuuuuure? https://twitter.com/Rogue/status/1160293740923277313?s=19

In any case, Zelda's aerials have too much endlag for their unimpressive range.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Something to note: Cosmos isn't really feeling very well, so there is a chance that he may drop out of the tournament unfortunately.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Lacrimosa]

You suuuuuure? https://twitter.com/Rogue/status/1160293740923277313?s=19

If he had gotten that dAir, oof.
Well, I stay by what I said: Very good showing against a Top 10 PGR player.

But yeah, it's still a loss and now it's against Juanpi . Could go either way, but Ven has the MU experience.
Then it's against (if he wins) Jw who's by far her worst MU, so yeah.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

In my experience using Wario, any character who can outmaneuver him, outspace him and zone him is a potential annoyance. Palutena has all three, so I could definitely see her being one of if not his absolute worst MU. The Hero also seems to be somewhat of a struggle for Wario too, because the Hero essentially has multiple Waft-esque (moves that can kill you stupid early with little effort) spells, zoning tools, spacing tools and everything else. The only thing Wario likes about that matchup is that he generally wins out against The Hero's frame data (and is just overall better in the air than him), but everything else about it seems to be a nightmare.

When you give Wario's clutch factor (Waft and moves like it, plus other examples like Arsene with Joker) to another character, and they fight, Wario doesn't seem to like it. Joker isn't a fantastic MU for him either. But The Hero and Palu are definitely the two that come to mind most.

I however am not a Wario main, though I have secondary'd the character on and off since launch inside of competitive settings, so I feel my opinion isn't totally worthless on the subject. Palutena has a convenient answer to literally everything Wario does, so I say her being his worst (or at least one of his worst) MU's is a definite given.

Well an upset in Makibaz 2-1 Nietono at Smash Con. Wario does seem to have a history of losing to Palu

 

[NotLiquid]

Something to note: Cosmos isn't really feeling very well, so there is a chance that he may drop out of the tournament unfortunately.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Confirmed in a follow-up tweet that he did end up dropping out. Unfortunate, but health's gotta come first.

Bit of a shaky start to Phase 2 for the squid. Smash Factor was a great showing for the character, but their EVO presence was a little more muted despite great placings by Chag and ProtoBanham, and none of their most prominent mains managed to make it to Smash Con. That's no doubt gonna impact their numbers a bit. A shame, since I was hoping we'd get to see more development to their defensive play (I'm still miffed at how many EVO sets are forever lost like tears in the rain).

 

[Y2Kay]

Makibaz is a top player from Tennessee. Arguably the best player in Memphis (Though Pipp is also in the running for that title too)

 

[The_Bookworm]

Leffen 2-1 Salem

I have no words to say about this.

... lol

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Leffen 2-1 Salem

I have no words to say about this.

... lol

Looks like isn't a problem after all.

 

[The_Bookworm]

BestNess 2-0 Raito

Edit: Mew2King2-0 Suarez!!!


Edit 2: MORE and MORE upsets!!!
PINK 2-1 Sonido
Raffi-X 2-0 Etsuiji
Raffi-X 2-0 Dabuz
SaltOne 2-1 WaDi (SaltOne might have used Roy. Can someone confirm for me?)
LingLing 2-1 MVD
PkChris 2-1 ZD
Adastran 2-1 iStudying (Out at 97th)
Adastran 2-1 Raito (Out at 65th)

 

[Kokiden]

Looks like isn't a problem after all.

is not looking threatening so far. It's either he really isn't as good as some think he is, or it's still too early.

Joker performed well right out of the game in the hands of Leo, though I suppose that's more the exception than the rule since the best player in the world did dedicate his time to mastering since the very beginning.

So far, there's no plausible reason to ban unless he is unfairly beating everyone he comes across.

 

[NotLiquid]

BestNess 2-0 Raito

This set is hours old. Raito's already been eliminated at 65th by Adastran . We're posting most of the set counts in the Smash Con thread.

I imagine sharing these sets here are only worth it if there's any important or constructive info to gauge and go along with it.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

LingLing 2-1 MVD .


Man between EVO and Smash Con. It has not been a a good start of the season for Snake

 

[Kokiden]

LingLing 2-1 MVD .


Man...Evo and Smash Con have not bern good days for Snake

I think Salem would have won if he stuck with instead of switching to in his match with Leffen.

Still early yet. Salem could reach top 16, or even 8, so just gotta wait and see how he does.