But you didn't say she and Robin wouldn't benefit significantly, you said they wouldn't benefit at all and even implied Zelda might be hurt by it more then helped. That's what I thought was so silly.
I said the speed was irrelevant. Meaning regardless of any potential boost to specific situations, it wouldn't affect their game play to any extent. Potentially saving 10% on an escaped combo or landing punish isn't really going to sway the match in the vast majority cases. That's before getting into kit specific cases, like Robin's ground moves being ass, so it's better to stick to the Levin Sword aerials and approach by air, similar to Palutena.
Either way I don't see how this conversation has dragged on as long as it did.
As far as I can tell, lots of misunderstandings around what I felt was a simple to understand statement.
His ground speed is irrelevant and he absolutely does not have slow air speed.
In the world where you have tools to work around that? My character is also pegged as having low mobility, but has had no problem cracking top 32/64 at major events. Not everything needs to go fast in order to be successful. Just look at Ivysaur or Olimar.
Those are the relevant quotes. Even without going into the detail I did explaining my position, mentioning Robin's respectable air speed in relation to his ground speed being irrelevant, would hopefully hint that you could use that to move instead. In StoicPhantom's possibly warped mind, having your best spacing tools in your aerials, would naturally have you using the air to approach or retreat. Making your ground speed irrelevant. The whole increased mobility is never beneficial was put in my mouth later. I didn't say it was never beneficial in any case ever, I said it was irrelevant to the characters I was talking about specifically.
It's all good though, might have been a little too dramatic in that last post, but I've said my piece and am willing to let sleeping dogs lie.
To step back a little, this was originally in reference to "what are you going to do about phantom shot out at max range" (or any range that you weren't forced to shield/etc) - I think we would both agree isn't "that useful", but it can give a slightly extra edge than otherwise.
Oh, you mean Lacrimosa's post. Yeah, sorry I was just meaning to specifically address destroying Phantom in my reply, not to comment on what you were replying to. It definitely depends on play and counter play, how useful it is. Kind of been running on little sleep the last few days, so my reading comprehension might be a little shot.
As the subject accidentally got brought up, how does Zelda do against Rosalina at the moment?
I don't know if there's a general consensus, but Mystearica and some of the Zelda board members, myself included, believe this to be even. I'm far too tired right now to go in depth (but I can later), so I'll paste a quick thing I mentioned on the Zelda board:
I've played some pretty good Rosalina players that made her Smash 4 version seem inferior. It's much easier to do the desync stuff than in 4, and they can do some pretty crazy stuff. While Zelda can knock Luma away pretty easily, Rosa can punish Zelda for doing so pretty easy too. She can also play keep away against Zelda pretty easy, since she can negate Phantom, so it can be difficult to take advantage of Luma's absence. She can also use Luma to cover the ledge, while she punishes any other getup options Zelda can take. Of course, she is very tall, light, and floaty so I think it's even, but it isn't free.
Now before anyone gets trigger happy, I was being a bit hyperbolic at the beginning. As I stated in the quote, not only is Phantom negated, but it's not easy to do something about Luma, without being punished by Rosa. Rosalina doesn't have an easy time killing Zelda though, and she isn't exactly a small target. I feel like this comes down to whether Rosa can land the kill or not, because it can take Zelda a while to get through Luma.
Full disclosure, I haven't played any notable Rosalina players. I don't know what experience our top Zelda players have either. I want to say Dabuz thinks it's even, but that's probably outdated, I don't know his recent thoughts.
Rather than big moves like Charizard Flare Blitz, I'd tend to use be using tilts instead. I could be wrong, but does taking hits stall how long Phantom stays out before disappearing or is it always 105f (if I understood you correctly)? As a swordy I tend to get at least two hits on it.
I don't think so? I guess I can't say I'm 100% sure, but I've never noticed anything significant enough to matter. It's pretty rare I ever give my opponent time to do so, meaning I'm usually at a distance where I wouldn't be able to safely charge it again, going back to what I said about it not mattering much.
May have to consult our board moderator when she wakes up about what she means by death animation. I thought it meant when it's destroyed(collapsing animation). That's the 105F thing. The lingering should be tied to charge level, so I don't believe you can prolong it.
The assumption I referred to was that I wasn't playing competent Zeldas. To BE FAIR, high-ish/top level zeldas are outside my perusal for sure, but at least feel confident I've played people who aren't generic about their phantom use and and compete with them.
That was probably my bad. I kept it vague specifically to
not imply you were playing bad Zeldas and probe for further clarification, but I might have been a little
too vague. The gap between high level and low level Zeldas is immense, and thus they are rare, so I wouldn't blame anyone for not encountering one. Ven and Mystearica are on another level compared to the rest of us, to the point their play is drastically different from ours. I kind of gave a glimpse when I did that ZSS match analysis, all that is some very difficult stuff to do. There's definitely a reason you don't see many top Zeldas.
Apologies if I've offended.
No problem, thanks for clarifying.
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isn't. Especially after the nerfs to other characters she's been getting results all over. He's right about Joker although not exactly Mr.Humility calling himself a god, lol.
