Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[The_Bookworm]

Pit and Dark Pit are bad. Yes, they have a functional kit that lets them play the game. Yes, they have pretty good neutral tools and a good recovery. The thing is though...they are average to a fault. Similar to Sheik you can play them correctly about 95% of the time, but then the 5% where you're not in control is where you lose. Why is this? It's simple-the Pits get outdone by a superior BS options (Fox vortex, Pichu lightning loops/overall solid kill options, etc) that far outshine the apex of what the Pits are capable of. To make a Pokemon analogy it's like trying to take on the meta with something like Porygon2: a good Pokemon that sadly doesn't have what it takes anymore to withstand the power creep in the meta.
I applaud Earth if he's truly leaving Pit and look forward to seeing what he can do with a character with actual firepower.

So simply not having a "BS" option makes a character bad? I find that hard to believe, especially with Lucina and Palutena crawling up on brackets, and they are both simple and well-rounded characters. The Pits can kill properly in this game now, and there are upper tiered characters with somewhat inconsistent kill options (like Inkling).

Also, Porygon2 is kind of a bad example. Power creep is a thing for a lot of Pokemon throughout the generations. Also, Knock Off's popularity in gen 6 onwards invalidates Porygon2 Pokemon in general. Competitive Pokemon is kind of a poor comparison when talking about SSB characters, as those two games are way different, and rankings for competitive Pokemon works differently than in SSB.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Yeah

So simply not having a "BS" option makes a character bad? I find that hard to believe, especially with Lucina and Palutena crawling up on brackets, and they are both simple and well-rounded characters. The Pits can kill properly in this game now, and there are upper tiered characters with somewhat inconsistent kill options (like Inkling).

Also, Porygon2 is kind of a bad example. Power creep is a thing for a lot of Pokemon throughout the generations. Also, Knock Off's popularity in gen 6 onwards invalidates Porygon2 Pokemon in general. Competitive Pokemon is kind of a poor comparison when talking about SSB characters, as those two games are way different, and rankings for competitive Pokemon works differently than in SSB.

Yeah the mentality that characterd need "BS" moves or some crazy X-Factor that can turn the tide of a match in seconds in order be top-tier or win touraments needs to be left back in Smash 4.

I mean, characters like Peach and Olimar still dont seems as completley opressive as Smash 4 Bayo, Cloud and Diddy by quite a longshot.

Sure many top tiers characters now may have certian things about them that are "overtuned" so to speak, can feel a bitopressive at times But so far most of the top tiers still seems beatable if you know how to fight them well enough.
The only characterslike "that kind" of Smash 4 Top-tier character are Wario and maybe Olimar.Where no matter how ahead you may be in a match. you are always fearing a comeback to an insane X-Factor that can erase stocks at disgustingly low percentages

 

[Emblem Lord]

Its not a "smash 4" thing.

It's an "every fighting game ever made or ever will be made" thing.

 

[Heracr055]

Lucina has good normals, range, strong advantage state they can actually kill off of, and a hitbox on their fairly safe up B. She don't suffer from having short jumps. She can actually kill with her FSmash at early percents. Her FSmash itself comes out quick and doesn't have it where foes can fall out (Pit FSmash). Palutena has good movement, safe bair & dash attack, kill power off most of her kit, etc (essentially a better Pit but she's going to fall off eventually since her above average stats will eventually be eclipsed by how linear she can be). And the Pits might be able to kill quicker now than in 4 but so can pretty much anyone else. The Inklings have bs associated with them (ink, tricky movement that protects them, the occasional roller, a protected up b, and non-linear recovery options that let them go deep for edgeguards AND protect them coming back to the stage.

Edit: How many Pits have we seen so far in big tournaments in top 8? Top 16? Top 64? No, you typically see stuff like Peach, Chrom, Lucina, Wolf and the yellow rats. I don't expect that to change without patch changes for the Pits.

Edit 2: Porygon2 is actually a good comparison because it remained relevant from gen 2 to gen 5, until the power creep got so differential that Pory2's great attributes just couldn't cut it anymore. Compare that to stuff like Gengar and Garchomp who still have huge meta presence even after generations of power creep.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I mean directly compare Pit Nair to Palutena Nair.

Come on now.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Lucina has good normals, range, strong advantage state they can actually kill off of, and a hitbox on their fairly safe up B. She don't suffer from having short jumps. She can actually kill with her FSmash at early percents. Her FSmash itself comes out quick and doesn't have it where foes can fall out (Pit FSmash). Palutena has good movement, safe bair & dash attack, kill power off most of her kit, etc (essentially a better Pit but she's going to fall off eventually since her above average stats will eventually be eclipsed by how linear she can be). And the Pits might be able to kill quicker now than in 4 but so can pretty much anyone else. The Inklings have bs associated with them (ink, tricky movement that protects them, the occasional roller, a protected up b, and non-linear recovery options that let them go deep for edgeguards AND protect them coming back to the stage.

Edit: How many Pits have we seen so far in big tournaments in top 8? Top 16? Top 64? No, you typically see stuff like Peach, Chrom, Lucina, Wolf and the yellow rats. I don't expect that to change without patch changes for the Pits.

A lot of his "multi-hitboxes not working properly sometimes" syndromes from SSB4 has been addressed in Ultimate. I hardly see anyone fall put of his f-smash anymore. I am not saying that Pit is as good as Lucina or Palutena, but my point is that characters of Pits' archetype works.

The main reason why Pit's reps are low (other than players being more attracted to more explosive, up-in-your-face characters), is because he is suffering from the same thing Marth is suffering from: he is overshadowed by Lucina in almost every way. The people that do rep Pit are also not very active players, with Earth being pretty much completely inactive. Kuro does well in Japan, but he alone cannot hold the fort.

 

[Emblem Lord]

This is an issue with any game that has a massive roster.

You will have characters with overlapping archetypes that are objectively inferior to other characters or do not have enough going for them to justify playing them.

Are there those of you in this thread who truly believe there are characters that will not get left behind, due to this simple fact?

Wake up. Yes, it SUCKS. But that is the reality.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

I've been putting legitimate time into Dark Pit only for Ness dittos because I hate the ditto in this game and what is being said about him is true. The lack of "BS" hurts enough to make them not meta relevant. Their kit is cohesive and the character isn't bad at all he just lacks any X-Factor to really set them apart. You may cheese a stock at 60 with electroshock arm if your opponent is careless at the ledge but that's about it.

He has a solid combo game and ways to get the hits he needs to start it but it's nothing overly special.

He can kill better but it's still his weak point and everyone else can kill better now so overall his kill power hasn't gone up by much

His edge guarding is good especially with nerfed recoveries but that also applies to everyone else. Pit has arrows but those only work effectively against bad recoveries and anyone can abuse a bad recovery. He does have the advantage of being able to edge guard at no risk to himself with arrows on stage but that's not enough. He can go off stage with multiple jumps making things easier timing wise which is a benefit but again it's just not enough.

I hate to use the word honest, because no character is honest but Pit is just too average still. If your a world class level player like Earth the character will hold you back. I have no doubts he can't win with Pit but he can be more consistent with a better character. I tend to think the character is better than most tier lists I've seen place him but he's still not more than your run of the mill mid tier in this game so far. (And being a mid tier in a game that's displayed good balance and less gap between the tiers isn't as bad a thing as it was in prior titles).

 

[|RK|]

Yeah, you don't need Bayo-level BS, but you definitely need some kind of option that seems unfair.

And to that end - Lucina has her bair and fsmash.

Palutena has a nair that does everything, an invincible bair.

But to the person who mentioned them, many people (including top players) expect these chars to fall off BECAUSE they're so simple.

 

[Emblem Lord]

For the record I do think Pits are good. Lower end of high tier or mid high tier. But Lucina exists. Palutena exists. Chrom, Wolf, and Ike.

Too many neutral centric characters with better reward AND less effort.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I don't think pit is just overshadowed by Lucina or whatever. I think if all the Marths in the game were gone, Pit would still be underwhelming. He is a collection of average moves that don't work very well together. It's sad too because I like the design of Pit and wish smash could do him justice for once.

Edit: someone tell me who the most braindead character is that's still good, zss is butt in this game and Im tired of grinding execution

 

[Emblem Lord]

Miss Suitless Aran is not butt. Just cannot be grab combing all Willy nilly now.

If you want easy combos, buttons and stage control than Palutena is your goddess.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Miss Suitless Aran is not butt. Just cannot be grab combing all Willy nilly now.

If you want easy combos, buttons and stage control than Palutena is your goddess.

I'm not even really comparing her to smash 4 zss. I didn't like smash 4 and didn't play it very much.

Butt might be the wrong word, but I think she feels less consistent than she ever has before. Utilt, fair, and fsmash don't connect properly. Her grab doesnt combo (maybe rightfully) which means it's back to being like brawl, slow, risky, and not scary even if it lands. I think a more reliable tech chase throw would have been a fair compromise but who am I?

Also, her hitboxes are pretty weird and small now. I have a couple of clips where down smash goes straight through a guy and nothing happens, same with back air.

On top of all of that, she has trouble hitting small characters especially out of shield (esp with the up b range nerf), and with no real shield grab and top 1 Pichu that's sort of ugly.

Maybe she's fine but I find her frustrating to play so I'm not gonna. Hope others have fun with her but I can't justify the headache personally.

 

[Heracr055]

ZSS may have lost her dthrow and rage jank but she got a workable neutral in the trade off. And she still maintains her excellent mobility and disadvantage tools. She also kept nair setups into FJK (along with some fair confirms into FJK at certain percents) and got a Boost Kick that hits reliably now. Her forward air is actually really good (it can even hit shorties). She's under the radar as usual and I like that

 

[Rizen]

Envoy of Chaos covered what I was going to say about the Pits. They're good but not great. I played a good DP recently and they have solid edge guarding and combos.

 

[NairWizard]

So simply not having a "BS" option makes a character bad? I find that hard to believe, especially with Lucina and Palutena crawling up on brackets, and they are both simple and well-rounded characters

idk about Palutena but Lucina definitely has some BS options. Her up-b is singlehandedly one of the most ridiculous moves in the game; I would even say it's the very best. In addition to being difficult to edgeguard, it KOs, has invincibility and a huge disjointed rising hitbox, and can be used OOS as a frame-5 option. Many of Leo's important kills at Summit came from someone touching his shield and Leo being able, on reaction, to punish the shield hit with up-b.

When a character with Lucina's range and disjoint, which encourage you to close the gap on her and shield pressure her, can punish you with a stock loss, completely on reaction, for touching her shield, I think it's safe to call that a "BS" option. The Pits don't have anything like that.

 

[Augi]

Pits are boilerplate. The issue with them is exactly what everyone else has stated here: They're... kinda boring.

Which may be a bit blunt, but all of their moves are really... balanced... There's nothing that stands out as exceptional and nothing that is unusable. I've seen others describe them like Mario, a fundamentals character. (Though even Mario can perform sick dunks on you off-stage and some nice low% combos.) And as someone else mentioned, the Pit Kit doesn't really connect well.

The Pits are just real straightforward play. "I've got some wings, some arrows and two daggery swords". Cool. Meanwhile Jacked Wrestling Felines are running around with literal fire pumping through their muscles and suplexing Tiny Space-junk Collectors who enslaved a race of disposable colorful plant aliens.

They just don't stand out really well...

 

[Diddy Kong]

Okay so what do we think about Chrom and Roy at this given moment? Who's the superior swordsman of the two? I'm looking into making one as my secondary. I already have a decent Lucina (who doesn't?) but I wanna dig a little deeper into the sword meta. Am also playing a little Link here and there, but am thinking am prefering a little more mobility.

I've been playing Diddy so long, that I now gotta adapt to not maining a Top Tier character for the first time since Melee.

Also curious what people think of DK, because Tweek still plays him occasionally, and Konga is still a beast even if it looks like he's M.I.A.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Okay so what do we think about Chrom and Roy at this given moment? Who's the superior swordsman of the two? I'm looking into making one as my secondary. I already have a decent Lucina (who doesn't?) but I wanna dig a little deeper into the sword meta. Am also playing a little Link here and there, but am thinking am prefering a little more mobility.

I've been playing Diddy so long, that I now gotta adapt to not maining a Top Tier character for the first time since Melee.

Also curious what people think of DK, because Tweek still plays him occasionally, and Konga is still a beast even if it looks like he's M.I.A.

My take right now is that Roy is better, but not because he's better overall. I just think being able to recover horizontally is worth much more than Chrom's many advantages.

I also think having the weak hit is occasionally nice for being able to set up kills and follow-ups, maintain control, and force mix-ups. But I could be wrong.

 

[Foie]

Yeah, kinda suffer the same as , decent characters with somewhat poor mobility that are overshadowed by characters with far more oppressive options above them.

On a broader note, it seems like characters with low speed, particularly low air speed, need some seriously strong zoning tools to compete at high levels. Looking at this list, the only major threats with bottom 20 air speed seem to be . Pikachu is a bit of an outlier here, but quick attack and top 20 run speed make up for his low max air speed. Even seems iffy to call a top-level threat.

If there is anything to this theory, then it bodes poorly for and even .

 

[Corra]

I'm not even really comparing her to smash 4 zss. I didn't like smash 4 and didn't play it very much.

Butt might be the wrong word, but I think she feels less consistent than she ever has before. Utilt, fair, and fsmash don't connect properly. Her grab doesnt combo (maybe rightfully) which means it's back to being like brawl, slow, risky, and not scary even if it lands. I think a more reliable tech chase throw would have been a fair compromise but who am I?

Also, her hitboxes are pretty weird and small now. I have a couple of clips where down smash goes straight through a guy and nothing happens, same with back air.

On top of all of that, she has trouble hitting small characters especially out of shield (esp with the up b range nerf), and with no real shield grab and top 1 Pichu that's sort of ugly.

Maybe she's fine but I find her frustrating to play so I'm not gonna. Hope others have fun with her but I can't justify the headache personally.

Fair picks up off the ground lower which is nice, but people do drop out of it still. Still feels like an upgrade to me. Fthrow puts you in a good position and can set up techchases at lower percent. The changes to how stun moves work hurt her for sure but being able to down smash out of a dash is dope. She feels less over centralized around grab combos and more well rounded. I do miss zair being as good as it was, but hers is still usable, unlike some other characters.

As for your point on punishing out of shield, I feel that and Pichu is an awful matchup. But a lot of times in this game you just gotta hold that pressure. You can't look for OoS punishes all the time, they aren't going to be there. The best OoS shield options in general are like, full jumping and spot dodging.

 

[ProfessorVincent]

Okay so what do we think about Chrom and Roy at this given moment? Who's the superior swordsman of the two? I'm looking into making one as my secondary. I already have a decent Lucina (who doesn't?) but I wanna dig a little deeper into the sword meta. Am also playing a little Link here and there, but am thinking am prefering a little more mobility.

The advantages between the two seem matchup dependent, which is why there doesn't seem to be a strict consensus. I'd focus on learning Roy, the character with more depth, while still being decent with Chrom.

Against inkling, for example, Roy seems scarier, because the right setup into a sweetstpot (or just a side be at the ledge), and you're dead, while also being harder to edgeguard. Inkling needs to get up close to do stuff, so Roy's sweetspots are effective. Against another character who maybe doesn't rely so heavily on edgeguards and has a bit more disjoints, Chrom might be better.

I'd do the same regarding the falchions. I'm not convinced Lucina is always strictly better.

 

[Rizen]

Okay so what do we think about Chrom and Roy at this given moment? Who's the superior swordsman of the two? I'm looking into making one as my secondary. I already have a decent Lucina (who doesn't?) but I wanna dig a little deeper into the sword meta. Am also playing a little Link here and there, but am thinking am prefering a little more mobility.

I've been playing Diddy so long, that I now gotta adapt to not maining a Top Tier character for the first time since Melee.

Also curious what people think of DK, because Tweek still plays him occasionally, and Konga is still a beast even if it looks like he's M.I.A.

IMO Chrom over Roy. Chrom's lack of sour spots means he gets good results by hitting as early as possible with tippers. This is huge for pushing an advantage. I've seen matches with Leffin's Roy where he can't seem to finish the opponent off despite hitting them at high %s; he loses to Light's Fox (IIRC) because this. Chrom's upB is a worse recovery but has some trade offs. Even after the nerf it can spike opponents off combos and kill at very low %s.

DK's a mid tier. He's possibly the best super heavyweight but still pretty meh. At least compared to high and top tiers. I think's he's popular and that helps.

 

[MG_3989]

Do Pikachu and Pichu players generally see any noticeably bad matchups? I’ve seen nothing but polarizing opinions, and the only general agreement they seem to come up with is that they lose to Olimar.

Just seems every character I put time into has a -1 or -2 matchup with these two.

and no way in hell am I gonna be caught playing no Olimar, no siree

Ness is +1 on both imo

Idk if Lucas is the same but magnet hurts the rats in neutral and Ness stuffs out their range and aerial game. I would say Ness definitely is +1 on Pikachu and maybe +1 on Pichu but it could be closer to even just because Ness is susceptible to Pichu’s bair combos and loops. Still he’s one of their worst MUs I’d say. Other than I don’t know much about their MUs but they don’t seem to have too many bad ones

Yeah, kinda suffer the same as , decent characters with somewhat poor mobility that are overshadowed by characters with far more oppressive options above them.

On a broader note, it seems like characters with low speed, particularly low air speed, need some seriously strong zoning tools to compete at high levels. Looking at this list, the only major threats with bottom 20 air speed seem to be . Pikachu is a bit of an outlier here, but quick attack and top 20 run speed make up for his low max air speed. Even seems iffy to call a top-level threat.

If there is anything to this theory, then it bodes poorly for and even .

Palutena and Ness are both bottom 20 too

 

[Justin Allen Goldschmidt]

Okay so what do we think about Chrom and Roy at this given moment? Who's the superior swordsman of the two? I'm looking into making one as my secondary. I already have a decent Lucina (who doesn't?) but I wanna dig a little deeper into the sword meta. Am also playing a little Link here and there, but am thinking am prefering a little more mobility.

I've been playing Diddy so long, that I now gotta adapt to not maining a Top Tier character for the first time since Melee.

Also curious what people think of DK, because Tweek still plays him occasionally, and Konga is still a beast even if it looks like he's M.I.A.

I definitely think Roy is better overall, but I also believe Chrom does better in some match-ups, and there's basically no reason not to play both.

 

[MG_3989]

DK's a mid tier. He's possibly the best super heavyweight but still pretty meh. At least compared to high and top tiers. I think's he's popular and that helps.

I’d say DK is high-mid at worst. He’s so quick for being as strong as he is and he snowballs really fast. Plus I think he has the best aerial game of all the heavies. I don’t think he’s top tier but he’s definitely a cut above the other heavies. Evidence in the fact that he can keep up and not have a terrible MU with heavy killers like Ness (idk how he does against characters like the rats but it’s gotta he better than other heavies) and others just because of how good is advantage state is

 

[Diddy Kong]

I’d say DK is high-mid at worst. He’s so quick for being as strong as he is and he snowballs really fast. Plus I think he has the best aerial game of all the heavies. I don’t think he’s top tier but he’s definitely a cut above the other heavies. Evidence in the fact that he can keep up and not have a terrible MU with heavy killers like Ness (idk how he does against characters like the rats but it’s gotta he better than other heavies) and others just because of how good is advantage state is

As good as DK's advantage state is, as horrible is his disadvantage. Also he has a better average neutral, not too great, and he's got a big body that's easy to hit. Therefore he's very polarizing. That will cloud his potential a little. I also think he's the best super heavy, and that's a good thing because the competition with Bowser, Ganondorf and King Dedede right now is pretty tight, as they are all way more functional as before.

 

[Rizen]

Tournament stuff:

It seems like character popularity is a big factor. IDK about other regions but in mine and are everywhere (not that I'm complaining, YL wins against them except Wolf who's even). Certain characters have an advantage in results by virtue of having more chances to win.

Popularity can be a double edged sword. MU experience, or lack of, in a roster this large is an important factor. It's hard to be consistent in SSBU. Most of the time when I lose it's because something surprised me. Uncommon characters have an advantage in being less known MUs. Even top players like Salem get 64th at Frostbite iirc. There's so much to learn about this game.

This is also a burden on technical characters and characters who can't outright oppress opponents. MU experience is important for everyone but some more than others. Lucina and Wolf for example can be successful with good fundamental and therefor are very popular. Wario on the other hand is good but needs to know when to punish openings and push an advantage. There's also the element of human error. It's a lot easier to play Lucina and get good hits all the time then Marth who needs to space or Shulk who has to micro manage Monado. This is even bigger if you have to adapt to unfamiliar MUs.

Then there's option coverage, which is a large part of being oppressive. Ike's Nair for example covers a huge space around him. Lucina's wide slashes cover a big area as opposed to Link's Uair or Fair that poke out in a line. If you have good option coverage you need less precision. This is why Ridley's Dsmash is so good for ledge trapping: it covers all options with the proper timing. Seriously, I've had the little hop in Dsmash go over my getup attack and got hit.
Option coverage isn't just hitboxes. Recoveries like the rats' and greninja's that can be guided get around a lot of options. Or invulnerable one's like Marcina's upB beat out attacks. Some options are good all around and simple.

The tl;dr is although the cream rises to the top, some characters are better suited for tournaments regardless of how good or bad they are. It's also hard to be consistent in Ultimate so every bit of help counts.

 

[Foie]

I created an "agility score" that I thought was intersting. I ranked characters based on a mixture of Run Speed, Air Speed, Air Acceleration, Fall Speed, Initial Dash, and Walk Speed. Basically, I took the average of each attribute and then took a weighted average for character based on that. For example, Sonic has a run score of 214 becuase he runs 214% the speed of the average Ultimate Run Speed. I simplified air acceleration to "Total Air Acceleration" and Fall Speed to average fall speed.

The weights I used (a totally arbitrary rough guesstimate) are 35% Run Speed, 30% Air speed, 10% Air Acceleration, 10% Fall Speed, 10% Initial Dash, and 5% Walk Speed.

All stats are from http://kuroganehammer.com. The main attributes missing here are jump height and multijumps, those stats weren't available on the site.

The results are as follows:
(You can see the spreadsheet with calculations here)

 

[The_Bookworm]

Got some spicy new tech here that I think will especially help out and .

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Got some spicy new tech here that I think will especially help out and .

Cool!

Is there anything else that's canceled with a double jump? Aren't spacie reflectors and Ness bubble also? I want to see if you can jump cancel them right as they land. If so it could be pretty cool for Lucas.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Cool!

Is there anything else that's canceled with a double jump? Aren't spacie reflectors and Ness bubble also? I want to see if you can jump cancel them right as they land. If so it could be pretty cool for Lucas.

As long as it is jump cancel-able. Spacie reflectors (unless it is Melee lol) and PSI Magnets are unfortunately not one of moves.

On a side note, this also works with Kirby when he copies a chargeable move, and I actually found doing charge-cancels the easiest with him.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

idk about Palutena but Lucina definitely has some BS options. Her up-b is singlehandedly one of the most ridiculous moves in the game; I would even say it's the very best. In addition to being difficult to edgeguard, it KOs, has invincibility and a huge disjointed rising hitbox, and can be used OOS as a frame-5 option. Many of Leo's important kills at Summit came from someone touching his shield and Leo being able, on reaction, to punish the shield hit with up-b.

When a character with Lucina's range and disjoint, which encourage you to close the gap on her and shield pressure her, can punish you with a stock loss, completely on reaction, for touching her shield, I think it's safe to call that a "BS" option. The Pits don't have anything like that.

If Lucina's up B is so amazing wouldn't Marth's be better?

 

[Lavani]

If Lucina's up B is so amazing wouldn't Marth's be better?

Dolphin Slash doesn't use tipper mechanics, it's identical between characters.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

As long as it is jump cancel-able. Spacie reflectors (unless it is Melee lol) and PSI Magnets are unfortunately not one of moves.

On a side note, this also works with Kirby when he copies a chargeable move, and I actually found doing charge-cancels the easiest with him.

Haha that's awesome. Sorry for some reason I thought they were jump cancelable, I don't play either of those characters.

 

[ProfessorVincent]

I created an "agility score" that I thought was intersting. I ranked characters based on a mixture of Run Speed, Air Speed, Air Acceleration, Fall Speed, Initial Dash, and Walk Speed. Basically, I took the average of each attribute and then took a weighted average for character based on that. For example, Sonic has a run score of 214 becuase he runs 214% the speed of the average Ultimate Run Speed. I simplified air acceleration to "Total Air Acceleration" and Fall Speed to average fall speed.

The weights I used (a totally arbitrary rough guesstimate) are 35% Run Speed, 30% Air speed, 10% Air Acceleration, 10% Fall Speed, 10% Initial Dash, and 5% Walk Speed.

All stats are from http://kuroganehammer.com. The main attributes missing here are jump height and multijumps, those stats weren't available on the site.

The results are as follows:
(You can see the spreadsheet with calculations here)

View attachment 198479

I love this list! It is very illuminating regarding mobility stats.

I think some of the results are interesting and show that not all mobility stats are created equal. I wouldn't average fall speeds, because I think having a significant difference between fall speeds and fast fall speeds helps escape disadvantage and offstage play.

I also think that some stats could be weighted differently, and maybe character size could also be a (small) factor. In particular, seeing Charizard, Lucario, and Inkling with the same agility score seems misleading since, imo, inkling is a far more agile character than her run speed and initial dash numbers would make her seem on paper.

 

[MG_3989]

As long as it is jump cancel-able. Spacie reflectors (unless it is Melee lol) and PSI Magnets are unfortunately not one of moves.

On a side note, this also works with Kirby when he copies a chargeable move, and I actually found doing charge-cancels the easiest with him.

Actually you can double jump cancel Ness’s PSI Magnet as well as PK Fire (not as useful) and there’s been a ton of tech derived from it so far

The main use of cancelling PSI Magnet is DJC cancelling it into that horizontal glide you see BestNess, Awestin, and Gackt especially doing a lot is as a mixup, momentum, approach and movement option and it combos into all of his aerials creating confirms and combo starters. PSI Magnet double jump cancelling is becoming an integral part of Ness’s game and I believe it will continue to as we’ve just scraped the surface of it. BestNess made a video about it and the other uses of PSI Magnet and he thinks it’s incredibly important and if you watch him play he uses it pretty incredibly. If anyone’s interested I can link it. I forgot if he goes over exactly how to do DJC magnet but he uses it in the video

The technique vastly improves his movement options and is viewed as integral to his future in the meta by a lot of Ness mains

https://youtu.be/5dEaQ6GnZ3Q

 

[AxelVDP]

Got some spicy new tech here that I think will especially help out and .

Not really "new" as this was basically known since week1 to anyone who used characters with chargeable speacials, and also not really that huge of a deal since, as stated in the video, using shield does basically the same thing and the difference in tightness for performing it is trivial (I'd also argue that accidentaly djumping is worse than accidentally shielding but one shouldn't mess this up anyway)

 

[G. Stache]

I love this list! It is very illuminating regarding mobility stats.

I think some of the results are interesting and show that not all mobility stats are created equal. I wouldn't average fall speeds, because I think having a significant difference between fall speeds and fast fall speeds helps escape disadvantage and offstage play.

I also think that some stats could be weighted differently, and maybe character size could also be a (small) factor. In particular, seeing Charizard, Lucario, and Inkling with the same agility score seems misleading since, imo, inkling is a far more agile character than her run speed and initial dash numbers would make her seem on paper.

I would say that hurtboxes tend to matter a lot when it comes to agility in general. When I think agility, one of the main things I think of is how hard it is to hit that certain character. Inkling, for instance, has a small hurtbox that gets even wonkier when dashing around because of how that character turns into a squid. Pairing that with good movement stats makes for very solid agility I would say and definitely more agility than a bigger body with around the same mobility stats (Charizard being a good example to bring up). I would also call Pichu overall more agile than DK overall in this game is because despite DK having superior movement stats, DK is still just so much easier to hit because he has such a massive hurtbox to aim for. I also think while raw mobility data is obviously very important when talking about how agile a character is, moves (mostly special moves) that help the character move around also matter. Pikachu’s quick attack is the best example I can think of off the top of my head, as it allows the pika player an easier way to get to where they want to go. Overall I think this data is very interesting, but we need to be able to attach it to the overall game and see how that data fits in with the other aspects in this game.

 

[Foie]

I love this list! It is very illuminating regarding mobility stats.

I think some of the results are interesting and show that not all mobility stats are created equal. I wouldn't average fall speeds, because I think having a significant difference between fall speeds and fast fall speeds helps escape disadvantage and offstage play.

I also think that some stats could be weighted differently, and maybe character size could also be a (small) factor. In particular, seeing Charizard, Lucario, and Inkling with the same agility score seems misleading since, imo, inkling is a far more agile character than her run speed and initial dash numbers would make her seem on paper.

Yeah, I agree with most of that. I'm sure there's a more accurate set of weights to use (air speed is likely a bit more important than run speed for example). Fall speed multiplier is missing too which would factor the fall speed mixup you mentioned. Hurtbox size and jumps are other major factors that help with mobility. Mewtwo for example is rank 8 on my original list, but is realistically less agile than Pichu in practice, who is rank 25, due to his height and wonky 2nd jump.