COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[Starscream]

I haven't encountered any glitches with 1 buffer, but a lot of moves still crouch after fast fall, which is a problem. x_o

I just finished playing around with 1 buffer and yeah these are pretty much the results I had.

Basically the moves I tested for the crouch after fast fall were:

Falcon: Nair and Uair
Marth: Fair, Uair, Delayed Nair (so it doesn't finish before you fast fall)
Fox: Nair
Falco: Nair

There are probably other characters that do as well but I'm not gonna test everyone. If you're fast falling these without crouching afterwards then you're either flicking the control stick very lightly for a fast fall, or you're just letting go of the stick really fast because that's the only way it's possible. I think the best way to describe it would be that it's like doing an Utilt with tap jump on. It feels unnatural for a SHFFL. If you can somehow make 0 buffer have instant aerials, awesome. Or if you can make 1 buffer not have this crouch after fast falled aerials, that works for me too. But I'd rather not have the crouch if I had to choose between the two.

1/2 hit lag is cool, it feels like a bit less hitlag than -3 overall and a huge difference for attacks like Falcon's knee. But yeah, it's glitchy. Add Marth's foward+B to the list of freeze moves.

Also, the effect of 1/2 hitlag on elemental attacks are kind of weird. Like Zelda's fair/bair. When you sweetspot it you don't seem effected by the hitlag but your opponent is. Like they're still stuck on the spot for a moment in the hitlag then launched. If this is the incompleteness that Kupo was talking about then I guess I understand now.

 

[KayJay]

I just finished playing around with 1 buffer and yeah these are pretty much the results I had.

Basically the moves I tested for the crouch after fast fall were:

Falcon: Nair and Uair
Marth: Fair, Uair, Delayed Nair (so it doesn't finish before you fast fall)
Fox: Nair
Falco: Nair

There are probably other characters that do as well but I'm not gonna test everyone. If you're fast falling these without crouching afterwards then you're either flicking the control stick very lightly for a fast fall, or you're just letting go of the stick really fast because that's the only way it's possible.

Remember this:

How about you do fast fall with C-Stick, you won't ever get a crouch if you jump -> press attack button -> immediately move your right thumb to the C-stick and move it downwards, i do Link sh nair ff like that all the time, works perfect.

 

[MBlaze]

Well I have my tourney today and I'm bringing the codes, but only thing I 'm wondering is if I should keep crouch cancelling..... Hmmm....

 

[maticMan94]

^^I say use it. Personally it's one of my favorite codes. It helps with spacing and gives you approach options. Running Samus down tilts FTW!

 

[Revven]

^^I say use it. Personally it's one of my favorite codes. It helps with spacing and gives you approach options. Running Samus down tilts FTW!

Definitely, I did some awesome spacing with Marth's Fsmash tipper in this match where I DD'd behind TL, crouch canceled, and tipper Fsmashed, I did this at least twice in the match and you can see them for yourself there.

 

[kupo15]

Updated Hitlag.

It should have fixed freezing and affects attacked but test it out guys!

 

[kupo15]

Even though the codes are incomplete at the moment, I recommend using 03 or 04 in place of XX in the subtraction hitlag code for now.

Probably 03, since 04 removes all hitlag from most drill/multi-hit attacks, and people seem to want hitlag reduced, not removed.

I think the division should be fine since its proportional across the board. If one move is 15 frames of hitlag and another is 3, removing 2 would benefit the smaller one more. The division would give the smaller number about the same amount but the bigger one would have 7ish. Big difference

Two quick questions:

1) Is PW looking into the bugs in the buffer code? I'd love to use 1-3 frames

Should be. I asked him too

Kupo I'm not trying to tell you to use these codes but there is nothing wrong with having them for people that want to play with them in their game.

What are you saying? Since when did I become the Nazi and flat out not request codes people wanted?

There are still people that would like to not fast fall when doing a dair or would like to have the option to put wavedashing in or to be able to crouch or shield during your initial dash.

I will still ask pw about FFing on the c stick but a while ago, we deemed it an imposible code

@SHeLL

I've been using 1 buffer for a while now and I've never come across any bugs with it.

I know kupo says in the OP that "any value except for 0 is glitchy", but if you keep reading past that red text his "Note" also says that he's already figured it out and just put the red text there in case.

Have you come across any glitches with the 1 buffer, or are you just being cautious?

If it's the latter, then don't worry about it and go ahead and use 1 buffer.
From what I've been seeing, it looks like most people have adopted it as the standard.

Which is good, cause that's what I was pushing for. ^.^

I have no problems with 1 if it is not glitchy

 

[ChronoPenguin]

What exactly is the buffer code?
Is it so that the timing for buffering a move changes or is it something else?

 

[kupo15]

What exactly is the buffer code?
Is it so that the timing for buffering a move changes or is it something else?

Buffering allows you to input your next action when the game is not ready for it, remember what that is for 10 frames and perform it when the game allows it. 10 frames is too big which makes the controls sloppy so bringing down to 1 makes it so you need to know when your animations end and input the next action at the exact moment the game is ready to perform it within 1 frame of error. You can changed this to any number less than 10 but we found those to be glitchy except 0 and apparently 1


Can someone confirm for me that in order to halve the hitlag in the division one that you put a 2 for the x?

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

Other stuff

-M cancel

-Melee style teching

What the hell???
(never heard of M-Cancel's before. That is my brawl name, so someone tell nao.)
lol it's not momentum cancel is it?

hence my sig.

 

[MBlaze]

What the hell???
(never heard of M-Cancel's before. That is my brawl name, so someone tell nao.)
lol it's not momentum cancel is it?

hence my sig.

Magus named it after himself, it was an l cancel but it takes out of the shield. Magus cancel, but I think it fails.

 

[kupo15]

Magus named it after himself, it was an l cancel but it takes out of the shield. Magus cancel, but I think it fails.

You have no idea....☼-_-

I guess I'll have to save magus. Everyone has ALC as a default but if you perform the m cancel (exactly like z cancel) then all of your landing lag is gone plus it eats a quarter shield as well. Its a good idea.

 

[BEES]

edit: never mind

 

[Deleted member]

sweet, hitlag mod. how do the values work?

 

[kupo15]

Im not sure. I think if you use a 2 for the division one it halves the hitlag which should be good

 

[Dark Sonic]

then all of your landing lag is gone plus it eats a quarter shield as well. Its a good idea.

That actually seems like a really, really good mechanic. Although, I think a quarter of a shield is too small. Especially since M-canceling would grant guaranteed grab setups, even if they shield. Afterward the time it takes you to combo them would be more than enough to replenish your shield. I think that 3/4 or more of your shield would be necessary to balance it (and make it so that if you don't have enough shield to do it then there is some kind of negative effect, like increased lag or something).

Zero lag with 100% of your option...1/4th of your shield is a small price to pay.

 

[kupo15]

well I forget the exact amount. It would need testing. Maybe 1/3 would be better because if you go past the limits, its a shield break

 

[zxeon]

You've always been a nazi about codes Kupo You took HAD off the list and moved MAD back to the perfect codes.

 

[kupo15]

You've always been a nazi about codes Kupo You took HAD off the list and moved MAD back to the perfect codes.

Is that what he is referring to? I can still request them and MAD should still be in the beta section. I might have forgotten to take it off of the perfect codes list

But in any case...we need someone to test this new hitlag code especially for the attacked hitlag.

The faster you test the better

 

[zxeon]

Is that what he is referring to? I can still request them and MAD should still be in the beta section. I might have forgotten to take it off of the perfect codes list

But in any case...we need someone to test this new hitlag code especially for the attacked hitlag.

The faster you test the better

I'll get on that when I get the chance. Did you see my post about hitlag properties earlier?

 

[shanus]

I don't like the concept of M-canceling at all. I think after hitlag is reduced for both atackee and attacker, shieldstun should be perfected and the codes from there optimized. Personally, I think most of the settings required for competitive brawl would have been written, and perfecting them would be the next most ideal step.

 

[kupo15]

I'll get on that when I get the chance. Did you see my post about hitlag properties earlier?

Yes I did, but that was before the new version of the hitlag


Paprika: We need to combine NOW!

 

[zxeon]

Yes I did, but that was before the new version of the hitlag


Paprika: We need to combine NOW!

That wasn't a test of the code I was researching the different attributes of attacks.

Combine with Paprika? Lol wut?

 

[kupo15]

**Go Go power rangers!!!!

 

[Deleted member]

I think he means code combining, dull work and appereantly I'm the only one that can do it and everybody is over the code limit. (srsly I'm not even at 235 if I add hitlag.)

also M-cancel is a horrible idea, not that the idea itself is bad, I actually like it. but it changes mechanics too dractically, and people that want to shffl break their shields, I mean come on.

 

[kupo15]

Im not over the limit, Im at 200ish I think but I think having the extra space would be nice

 

[Deleted member]

for what? I'm not gonna put time in something nobody actually needs, remember that I have to make this seperately for each codeset.

 

[kupo15]

or you can tell us how to do it. There are about 4 codes that share the same thing which will save us about 30-40 lines i think

 

[zxeon]

or you can tell us how to do it. There are about 4 codes that share the same thing which will save us about 30-40 lines i think

Which codes are those?

 

[Deleted member]

hitstun,ALC, no ASL, lagless ledges and dash cancel that makes 5

I could just combine these 5 since we can agree that these are at least getting in.

 

[kupo15]

ALC
No ASL
Lagless ledges
Buffering
Dash cancel

all share 7 lines I believe

please do paprika and maybe color coat each code so we know what code is what for editing. I also probably don't want the dash cancel

 

[zxeon]

hitstun,ALC, no ASL, lagless ledges and dash cancel that makes 5

I could just combine these 5 since we can agree that these are at least getting in.

Sounds good to me. I'll be thrilled to see these codes combined personally.

 

[K1T3]

Is that what he is referring to? I can still request them and MAD should still be in the beta section. I might have forgotten to take it off of the perfect codes list

But in any case...we need someone to test this new hitlag code especially for the attacked hitlag.

The faster you test the better

I was referring to numerous codes like:
no fast fall dair (didn't know it was impossible sorry)
shield during dash animation
crouch during dash animation
HAD
more shield release lag, maybe shield startup lag as well?
still of course would like momentum carried to jumps

Off to go test the new hitlag with 2 value now.

hitstun,ALC, no ASL, lagless ledges and dash cancel that makes 5

I could just combine these 5 since we can agree that these are at least getting in.

Any chance there could be a combination without ALC so that I could still put in Manual L cancel? It should be fine again with the hitlag code so it's not all trippy anymore.
I've been hovering over 250 lines for awhile now and each time a new code comes out I have to take something else out. I would still like to have MAD/HAD in somehow as well but I havn't had line space for the longest time.

 

[GPDP]

I say just get rid of the MLC if you're running out of lines.

 

[Deleted member]

MLC? and you might wanna take out the PT codes

 

[plasmatorture]

I'm at 255 lines

Taken directly from my rsbe .txt (so too much info probably):

Dash Dancing: Phantom wings (5 lines)
Downwards Gravity 1.15% (1 line)
Lagless ledges: Phantom wings (24 lines)
No Auto Sweetspotting(v1.0): 45 Lines (Phantom Wings)
Short Hop Height/Fast Fall Speed Multiplier [.9, 1.1 9 Lines]
No Tripping (2 lines) - Y.S., Ported by Kirby is cool
No Dash end animation *AM* 6 lines (MuBa)
HitLag Modifier(Subtraction): -3 Phantom Wings (5 lines)
1/2 power stale system (6 lines)
Auto L-canceling (32 lines)
Hitstun 2.0:[Phantom Wings] 9% (34 lines)
Shield Stun x3 (strong hits)[spunit262] 11 lines
Shield stun x2.8 (weak hits) [spunit262] 1 line
Buffer Modifier 1 frame: (23 lines) Phantom Wings
Level Reverse (Reverse: WW, Port Town, PS2, FZ2) [8 lines]
P.Trainer No Swap:[Y.S. & Phantom Wings] (11 lines)
P.Trainer Infinite Stamina: [Phantom Wings] (28 lines)
Unrestricted pause camera [2 lines]
Allow More Than 1000 Replays/Stages/Snapshots - (1 line)
Allow Replays Longer Than Three Minutes (1 liner)


I plan on shortening the level freeze/reverse code (Port Town sucks, even frozen IMO, same with Flat Zone 2), and could remove the pause camera and more than 1000 replays/stages/snapshots line, but that'd only free up like 4 lines. Worst comes to worst, I can remove the PT codes for the hold L version, but I'd rather not. Everything else I see as 100% neccesary.

 

[kupo15]

I was referring to numerous codes like:
no fast fall dair (didn't know it was impossible sorry)
shield during dash animation
crouch during dash animation
HAD
more shield release lag, maybe shield startup lag as well?
still of course would like momentum carried to jumps

Off to go test the new hitlag with 2 value now.

I never said that I was against all of these codes. You have to understand that I can't be requesting every **** code that everyone wants to the hackers like its candy or something. We have to discuss why we want these codes and the space for these codes and the importance and priority of these codes. MAD/HAD has no priority on the list next to codes like the hitlag or hit stun or anything. I don't even know who the wise guy was who requested MAD before shield stun. Can you honestly tell me that MAD is more important than shield stun?

more shield release lag, maybe shield startup lag as well?

When did I say I was against this? In fact I even made a post saying how we should listen to the kishes about adding this.

still of course would like momentum carried to jumps

Since when did I say I was against this code either? Have you even read that Almas is working on this so there is no reason for us to discuss this or even request this code for pw anyway?

Seriously, I know I'm the top of all the flaming because I decided to take charge instead of waiting for these codes to fall in our laps magically, but you have to stop patronizing me all the time. I know what I'm doing and I have people to help me out. There are just other more important codes that have priority that needs to be done first before things like HAD that people don't even realize. God forbid I actually request important codes to the game over preference ones

/rant

 

[GPDP]

I can confirm that the hitlag code works, and man, it is BEAUTIFUL. Indeed, it looks like putting 2 on the modifier halves hitlag. Not affected, of course, are moves with elemental properties like Samus's charge shot, and Zelda's bair and fair, but those are the only ones I tested. Marth's tipper no longer has insane hitlag.

 

[Toadster5]

Does anyone else have freezing problems with Charizard's up B, Marth's side B, and Ice Climbers' fthrow, upthrow, and up tilt (all when hitting an opponent)?

 

[kupo15]

i requested pw to add the hitlag to the attacked by electric moves since that is the only thing we are missing

Does anyone else have freezing problems with Charizard's up B, Marth's side B, and Ice Climbers' fthrow, upthrow, and up tilt (all when hitting an opponent)?

all gone