COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[Starscream]

Have we addressed everything else that needed to be addressed?

Fix grab releases and ground to air momentum (not 100% necessary). What else is there?

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Fix grab releases and ground to air momentum (not 100% necessary). What else is there?

jab locks, triple jump glitch, metaknight.

 

[cAm8ooo]

lol Right now jab locks don't really bother me too much. I honestly dont see very much of them. My main priority is meta and ground to air momentum.

 

[kupo15]

Well, i meant as in shorter lag from being hit by the move.

The physical move lag is not shortened. The extra freeze frames are.


PM from pw

The freezing is probably due to the fact that the value is less than the devision value, resulting in 0(infinite hitlag) There's already a "check value" system in place for the subtraction one so it should work perfectly - but I didn't think to add one for the devision one. I'll see about getting onto that and a code for the character who is hit as well.

 

[Starscream]

jab locks, triple jump glitch, metaknight.

Right, forgot about those 2, Meta Knight is the absolute final thing to fix if there is space IMO.

Also, stale damage only.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

oh, and i guess jump speed animation?

 

[kupo15]

Originally Posted by Starscream View Post
Fix grab releases and ground to air momentum (not 100% necessary). What else is there?

Triple jump glitch

 

[Finns7]

Mad + Dash dancing is 2 good, Also with a lower buffer you cant stack like before, plus you can cancel your dash into a attack using the wavedash, plus wavedashing/wavelanding take away the triple jump, there are more uses. I do think they should have some type of wd in brawl dd is good but It feels better with WD. I got acustomed to wd while others used to bad. I think someone should tighten up the code, its clearly not complete just like the buffer, and the hitlag codes.

Really I think we should be concentrating on getting legit brawl glitches/gay **** out like grab releases. SHieks ftilt needs to be looked at too with the increase in hitstun. Does the buffer + knockback take this away? Jab locking needs to be out, I like it but I main link so of course.

One big thing Kupo that I think needs to be addressed is the tech window. We have gotten used to brawl+ so teching is easier, but for beginers (dont lie) it was hard for a moment and think that has a strong chance of making people lose interest. Think of how fast gameplay will go if the teching was made easier (ledge also).

 

[Starscream]

Triple jump glitch

Two posts up, I said I forgot about and acknowledged it.

I don't think we NEED jump speed increase either.

One big thing Kupo that I think needs to be addressed is the tech window. We have gotten used to brawl+ so teching is easier, but for beginers (dont lie) it was hard for a moment and think that has a strong chance of making people lose interest. Think of how fast gameplay will go if the teching was made easier (ledge also).

If people are turned off from a fighting game where you need master something as important as teching then they should go back to vanilla Brawl.

It's not hard at all once you're used to it and higher gravity makes it even easier.

 

[zxeon]

What about not being able to attack right after jumping? This was a problem for me even in vanilla brawl.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Well, I'm waiting on Bleak to record another match, but check this out :D

Dash Dance + Dash Cancel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdZZ6mGXqnA

Someone mentioned this being a possibility, IIRC.

 

[cAm8ooo]

sweet Get those matches up ASAP. Unlike Vanilla Brawl. Most Brawl+ matches r enjoyable to watch.

 

[Finns7]

Kupo and others have said that we want to bring people in, I can care less because I have had my brawl+ cherry ravaged by foxes, metas, zss and toonlinks (>_>) and have learned to tech. People will brush it off trust me most people dont even think highly off it now. There is no doubt in my mind that brawl+ will be faster with better teching, this is a better code than air speed imo

 

[plasmatorture]

Well, I'm waiting on Bleak to record another match, but check this out :D

Dash Dance + Dash Cancel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdZZ6mGXqnA

Someone mentioned this being a possibility, IIRC.

Is that MuBa's dash cancel or PW's?

Also, I'm sad, my roommate seems to have dissapeared since wednesday night so I don't know when I'll get to play with these new codes with people.

Am I the only one who thinks the shorter short hop code is a viable one to work on, by the way?

 

[zxeon]

Is that MuBa's dash cancel or PW's?

Also, I'm sad, my roommate seems to have dissapeared since wednesday night so I don't know when I'll get to play with these new codes with people.

Am I the only one who thinks the shorter short hop code is a viable one to work on, by the way?

I love shorter short hops. No more jumping early and revealing your Bair ahead of time.

 

[plasmatorture]

I love shorter short hops. No more jumping early and revealing your Bair ahead of time.

okay, as long as I'm not the only one. Guess I'll keep the old shieldstun until Almas releases a fix for it.

What values do you plug in for XX in the Subtraction hitlag code? 3 for both?

 

[SketchHurricane]

Is that MuBa's dash cancel or PW's?

Also, I'm sad, my roommate seems to have dissapeared since wednesday night so I don't know when I'll get to play with these new codes with people.

Am I the only one who thinks the shorter short hop code is a viable one to work on, by the way?

PW's, though it should obviously work with Muba's too


I was just trying to play some matches with hitlag division by 2, and it turns out that the first few hits of Luigi's dash attack freeze that game with that setting. This means that Luigi's dash attack must have a hitlag of 1, since it was stated that diving a number smaller than the divider would cause the characters to freeze.

In other words, the hitlag code is pretty much unusable until PW puts the number checker into division.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

Even though the codes are incomplete at the moment, I recommend using 03 or 04 in place of XX in the subtraction hitlag code for now.

Probably 03, since 04 removes all hitlag from most drill/multi-hit attacks, and people seem to want hitlag reduced, not removed.

 

[Shell]

@SketchHurricane:

I personally enjoy the infinite DD, and wish others would try it out for a couple rounds. I do understand it's flaws, though.

 

[SketchHurricane]

BTW, I've gotten the SS glitch to occur a few times now. I'll try to get it recorded with a list of codes used.

edit: well nvm. It really IS hard to replicate on purpose. It's only happened twice, and always at the start of a match...

 

[zxeon]

I can't wait till PW fixes the hitlag divider. The beta code is a good way to find out how many frames of hitlag a move has right?

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

The subtraction one is, yes.

 

[zxeon]

The subtraction one is, yes.

What?

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

The subtract code it a good way of figuring out how many hitlag frames a move has, since you can take away 1 frame at a time until there's none left.

Be even easier if PW takes the limiter off so the move freezes when it goes into minus numbers.

 

[Shell]

Two quick questions:

1) Is PW looking into the bugs in the buffer code? I'd love to use 1-3 frames

2) Are any hackers planning on looking into whether stickies can be accessed in versus?

 

[Heavyarms2050]

^^ dash cancel is very overpowering

 

[zxeon]

Two quick questions:

1) Is PW looking into the bugs in the buffer code? I'd love to use 1-3 frames

2) Are any hackers planning on looking into whether stickies can be accessed in versus?

I think I heard somewhere that they only exist in SSE.

 

[Shell]

Can anyone provide evidence for this?

 

[plasmatorture]

Well, the only place you can see their effect in normal brawl is in SSE, so that would be my guess, but I dunno for sure.

I think dash canceling is very strong but it eliminates the need for wavedashing IMO so I'm a big fan of it.

Sheik's ftilt with 03 on the subtraction hitlag code is ****ing nuts right now, at least against a CPU. Course, they don't DI well, but you should be able to get a good 2-3+ hits with it on an actual player (I got 6 against CPU Fox...).

 

[K1T3]

Mad + Dash dancing is 2 good, Also with a lower buffer you cant stack like before, plus you can cancel your dash into a attack using the wavedash, plus wavedashing/wavelanding take away the triple jump, there are more uses. I do think they should have some type of wd in brawl dd is good but It feels better with WD. I got acustomed to wd while others used to bad. I think someone should tighten up the code, its clearly not complete just like the buffer, and the hitlag codes.

Really I think we should be concentrating on getting legit brawl glitches/gay **** out like grab releases. SHieks ftilt needs to be looked at too with the increase in hitstun. Does the buffer + knockback take this away? Jab locking needs to be out, I like it but I main link so of course.

I really wish I could have both Mad and Dash dance codes in. It just takes up so much space for Mad though. But yeah with 0 buffer it gets rid of the stacking and makes it quite normal and being able to waveland adds lots of options as well.

Kupo I'm not trying to tell you to use these codes but there is nothing wrong with having them for people that want to play with them in their game.

There are still people that would like to not fast fall when doing a dair or would like to have the option to put wavedashing in or to be able to crouch or shield during your initial dash.

Just as there are people that don't like the codes that you do as I've heard some complain about hitlag or other codes for instance but they are still there for people that do want them, which I think is a good thing. I just want those codes listed above to use with my own friends and I'm sure there are plenty of other people that would use them as well even if you personally don't want to they should still be made available for others that do.

What about not being able to attack right after jumping? This was a problem for me even in vanilla brawl.

Yeah this really needs some looking into... it's really annoying and not caused by the codes.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

For the subtract code, just remember;

00=0
01=1
02=2
03=3
04=4
05=5
06=6
07=7
08=8
09=9
0A=10

You probably won't have to go much higher than 10, but after 0F(15) it ticks over to 10 which equals 16, 11 equal 17, and so forth up to FF which equals 255.

 

[Finns7]

Yeah im going to try out that dash cancel, with dash dance, maybe it can replace meh MAD (which takes away triple jump glitch actually). Im still think bigger teching window will speed up the game and bring more in, which we do need, brawl+ learning curve is bigger than VB.

 

[zxeon]

I Just made a huge discovery. I think.

I was messing around with the hitlag divider and I set it to divide by 15 (F in hex). So I shot an opponent with Samus' fully charged shot and it turns out that it has more than fifteen frames of hitlag, but that isn't the "huge" discovery.

I found out that if you hold the control stick in a direction lets say left and you SDI with the C-stick up the game will interpret it as diagnal(sp?) up left.

Oh and the soccer ball when hit by Samus' charge shot has more than 15 frames of hitlag.

 

[SketchHurricane]

I just wanted to chime in and say that DDD can combo the jethammer on Snake at certain percents :D (against bad DI)

@80%
fastfall nair, quick standing jet hammer

@150%
fastfall nair, charge jet hammer, jump and release
* timing on this is a bit tight, and I image they can DI away pretty easily

 

[zxeon]

Disregard what I said about Samus' Charge shot earier. I believe that her charge shot is elemental along with ZSS' Paralyzers (charge B and D smash), Gonondorf's Dair, and Captain Falcon's knee. Olimar's yellow Pikmin Dair has elemental knockback too but for some reason Olimar freezes when you hit your opponent with it but the enemy doesn't freeze with you. I think Olimars yellow Pikmin Dair has both kinds of hitlag in it.

Moves I've tested with no hitlag : Metaknight's Mach Tornado and DDD's inhale and spit out.

Moves I've tested with more than fifteen frames of hitlag : DDD's fully charged jet hammer and ZSS' smash b.

 

[SketchHurricane]

I was messing around with stages at .001 speed. Castle Siege is good with this, as the background fires still move but the stage stays put for long enough. Port Town moves down the track a bit then slows at a section where the floor is very deep, but still pops you up.

I have a question for the hackers. Is there anything in code that keeps track of the match timer values? If so, would you be able to detect a certain match time, then apply the level freeze at that specific time? It would seem to take the same logic as the current level freeze code, which is basically in if statement. This would allow us to freeze a stage like Siege/Port Town/PS2 at a certain section by just noting the match timer at that particular spot.

 

[Alopex]

@SHeLL

I've been using 1 buffer for a while now and I've never come across any bugs with it.

I know kupo says in the OP that "any value except for 0 is glitchy", but if you keep reading past that red text his "Note" also says that he's already figured it out and just put the red text there in case.

Have you come across any glitches with the 1 buffer, or are you just being cautious?

If it's the latter, then don't worry about it and go ahead and use 1 buffer.
From what I've been seeing, it looks like most people have adopted it as the standard.

Which is good, cause that's what I was pushing for. ^.^

 

[Frogles]

I haven't encountered any glitches with 1 buffer, but a lot of moves still crouch after fast fall, which is a problem. x_o

 

[zxeon]

An update on my attack hitlag properties research.

Attacks I believe that have only elemental hitlag or also have normal hitlag exeeding fifteen frames

Samus' charge shot
ZSS' Paralyzers (charge B and D smash)
Zelda's Heels
Gonondorf's Dair
Captain Falcon's knee
Falco's lazer
Ness PK flash.

Moves I think have both elemental and regular hitlag

Olimars yellow Pikmin Dair
Lucas' Usmash (The first hit has elemental hitstun and the others have normal hitstun that is under fifteen frames) and Dsmash
Shiek's Chain
Zelda's Usmash.

Moves I've tested with no hitlag

Metaknight's Mach Tornado
DDD's inhale and spit out
Zelda's neutral b.
Fox's laser

Moves I've tested that exceed fifteen frames of hitlag

DDD's fully charged jet hammer
ZSS' smash b
Marth's Fsmash tipper.

 

[MuBa]

Awesome stuff here. Once I get my apartment situated in Aruba I'll definitely check this stuff out (and hope that I make my room mate play this game )

Also I believe we should have the increase ground-to-air speed because it just looks awkward having a fast ground speed and then a piss poor aerial speed.