Clone Engine Misc. Discussion Thread

[ChronoBound]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but the announcer for SSBB, Pat Cashman, being the swell guy that he is, has done requests and whatnot for announcing characters in the past. I've had this link for awhile, but here you go.

http://www.dmajohnson.com/junk/smash/Announcer.mp3

Characters like Roy and Mewtwo are present, along with others like Isaac. I thought this might spark some discussion, so let me know what you guys think.

There is also Ridley there.

Yeah, this has been around since a few months after Brawl's release.

 

[turtletank]

If we're talking joke characters...

Nuff said.

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

You guys actually have a good point about Little Mac-- I should have been thinking of that. He would take tons of work, and it would be a shame if they started working on him just for him to be confirmed for SSB4. What a waste...

Ridley, Isaac, Goroh, and Lyn would be great though, with either Starfy or Pichu filling out the last slot.

On a side note, Mewtwo YEAAAHHHHHHH

....


...

Samus better be in the next version.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Very interesting find about that announcer. Dunno if he'd provide more nowadays though. (What a shame though, who'd announce Lyndis then...)

 

[Chzrm3]

So we know that Roy took 700 hours to make. Any stats on Mewtwo? : o I could see him taking over 1000 because Brawl really had nothing comparable to him.

 

[MVP]

You guys actually have a good point about Little Mac-- I should have been thinking of that. He would take tons of work, and it would be a shame if they started working on him just for him to be confirmed for SSB4. What a waste...

Ridley, Isaac, Goroh, and Lyn would be great though, with either Starfy or Pichu filling out the last slot.

On a side note, Mewtwo YEAAAHHHHHHH

....


...

Samus better be in the next version.

So we know that Roy took 700 hours to make. Any stats on Mewtwo? : o I could see him taking over 1000 because Brawl really had nothing comparable to him.

i have a question: is it easier to create a whole new character using the clone engine (taking up easily 700 hours), or fix samus?
(legit question here)

 

[Rikana]

That's like comparing apples and megazords. Fixing Samus, or any other characters that suffer the same issue, requires a very specific set of skills and knowing where to look (which is why we can only rely on a very small handful of people for this task). If it happens to be found, we go through many trial runs to see if its bug free. Chances are, it'll corrupt something else and we have to tweak it.

So to answer your question: fixing Samus can be as fast as a second to 10,000 years.

 

[Shell]

Mewtwo took ~700 hours, Roy took maybe a quarter of that since he's a semi-clone character.

 

[MVP]

Mewtwo took ~700 hours, Roy took maybe a quarter of that since he's a semi-clone character.

i heard it took the 300 for roy

 

[Haloedhero]

i have a question: is it easier to create a whole new character using the clone engine (taking up easily 700 hours), or fix samus?
(legit question here)

This is something I see crop up all the time, and I can answer it very simply: development of Mewtwo had no effect on the development of Samus. It's completely different people with completely different and incompatible skillsets working on different characters. For instance, there's no way I ever could have fixed Samus, but I personally spent the oft repeated ~700 hours (maybe more) on Mewtwo. It's not even a question of ease; it's a question of having the right knowledge and enough free time.

 

[Rick Rockmann]

Very interesting find about that announcer. Dunno if he'd provide more nowadays though. (What a shame though, who'd announce Lyndis then...)

I wonder how hard it would be to get a convincing "Lyn" through clever editing of Link's announcer files...

 

[Anti Guy]

I wonder how hard it would be to get a convincing "Lyn" through clever editing of Link's announcer files...

Pretty hard. The "n" in "Link" is not the same as the "n" in Lyn, so if you cut off the K, you don't get the same thing. The "n" in Link is actually an ŋ ("ng"), which is a distinct sound from n. Cutting off the K would actually make him say "Ling!"

 

[CardiganBoy]

What about Snake codecs?

 

[ChronoBound]

Just from the additional character names that Pat Cashman did:
- Mewtwo
- Roy
- Ridley
- Mega Man / Rock Man (though technically disqualified)
- Isaac / Robin
- Bowser Jr.
- K. Rool
- Jody Summer (why did they do this one)
- Tails
- Micaiah
- Felix
- Krystal
- Mii (technically disqualified)
- Jenna

 

[SunJester]

I'd put money on the PMBR choosing something out of left field,

and we all know what that would be.

 

[Friesnchip]

I'd put money on the PMBR choosing something out of left field,

and we all know what that would be.

Spoiler

I dunno, the Elite Beat Agents would be difficult to implement, and they are third party developed. Not really seeing this one happen, even under the pretense of 'out of left field'.

 

[SunJester]

I dunno, the Elite Beat Agents would be difficult to implement, and they are third party developed. Not really seeing this one happen, even under the pretense of 'out of left field'.

Don't lie to me and tell me that this isn't the greatest idea ever.

 

[Time/SpaceMage]

Just from the additional character names that Pat Cashman did:
- Mewtwo
- Roy
- Ridley
- Mega Man / Rock Man (though technically disqualified)
- Isaac / Robin
- Bowser Jr.
- K. Rool
- Jody Summer (why did they do this one)
- Tails
- Micaiah
- Felix
- Krystal
- Mii (technically disqualified)
- Jenna

Of those, I can see Ridley, Bowser Jr. and K. Rool as being very iconic. I love Isaac and his games, though they have a smaller presence being only on the handheld systems. Ridley's probably been around the longest out of all of them, considering Metroid outdates Kid Icarus by like 4 months. Jody Summer, I don't know anything about. (*googles* Oh ok, that's why they want her in )

Tails I could see getting in based on reasoning that she's an icon as Sonic's first partner... and because I see GHNeko using that costume of her him >.> But, I don't think Sonic or Snake should get any other reps in P:M since they're supposed to be guests rather than established series.

Krystal I don't know too much about (only played the Walmart demo of SF Adventures), but I think Star Fox has enough reps. Maybe change the Andross AT to his 64 version, otherwise I'm fine how it is.

Micaiah I also don't know much about, though she is pretty cute and I've got a thing for caster girls we could use the female representation. However, I also think FE has enough reps and it's badass enough that we're getting Roy back.

 

[GHNeko]

and because I see GHNeko using that costume of her him >.>

I WILL fight you.

 

[ChronoBound]

I actually remember the original GameFAQs topic where the fan was taking requests to ask Pat Cashman to announce additional character names. Notice how the first four characters named are Ridley, Mewtwo, Mega Man, and Roy. Coincidentally, those were the four characters in which there was the most anger about them not being in Brawl (like I said before this was done just a few months after Brawl's release).

So that is why we also go additional weird choices (like Jody and Jenna).

 

[Time/SpaceMage]

I WILL fight you.

Totally worth it lol. I'm just sayin', not the only one who thought it!

 

[CardiganBoy]

I wonder what new taunts the PM team will give to Mewtwo (aside from Melee taunt, of course), one thing is certain: they will be awesome!

 

[TheKk-47]

Knuckles is the 3rd Sonic character with most playable appearances. Pretty far from VERY irrelevant.
Shadow hasn't even appeared in a Sonic game since Sonic and the Black Knight... where he played a very similar role to Knuckles.
After that... nothing. But Knuckles does appear in Lost World so that makes him MORE relevant than Shadow.

Plus... isn't this supposed to be a discussion about having CLONE characters? Therefore Shadow (who ironically has been 99% of the time a Sonic clone with one extra move/gimmick anyway) shouldn't have to sport so many new moves.

A recolor fits him more than fine, IMO. I'll take Tails, Knuckles, and even Metal Sonic over Shadow.


-

But ok... I guess a 2nd Sonic character would be one of the last character choices the PM staff would go for...
For now I'll stick to the plumber trio as my (placeholder) mains. Though I'm very tempted on picking up Roy for old time's sake.

Lmao, Shadow was a boss battle in Sonic Generations, Knux was irrelevant inside that game as far as I know.

 

[TheKk-47]

you call the series irrelevant yet promote shadow as a character. I too would prefer if the sonic series didn't receive a character but I didn't go as far as to call it irrelevant. if the sonic series is irrelevant than what does that make shadow? he was introduced after both knuckles and tails and in theory is the hero in his own sort of series. sure he's a major antihero in sonic but i'd rather have "batman and robin" as opposed to "batman and catwoman".

"Batman and robin" = Sonic and Tails, not Knux. If anything Batman and Catwoman = Sonic and Knux. Since I don't know much about Batman, I'll use a different analogy. Goku and Vegata = Sonic and Shadow. Goku and Krillin = Sonic and Tails. Goku and Piccolo = Sonic and Knux. What would you rather have? And I didn't contradict myself. I DO NOT want another third party rep, but IF I was to choose one, I'd pick Shadow.

 

[TheKk-47]

Well I don't hate Shadow, I just don't like the sudden surge of "Anthros with superpowers" in Sonic games.

To me Shadow would be just another energy-type user like Mewtwo and Lucario. (In fact... Shadow would almost be TOO similar to Mewtwo)

I much rather have Eggman in a heavy mech. Where he could shoot semi-charged Superscope blasts (or charge it up to be as powerful as a Landmaster blast). He could have a bumper shield. He could have a shorter version of ROB'S vanilla recovery, and shoot land mines similar to Snake's.
THAT would be a lot more unique, IMO.

-

Alright, enough from Sonic from me.
I prefer to discuss more viable options, since a new Sonic character is kind of a pipe dream now.

Balloon Fighter and Solo Pokemon Trainer are the two characters who I support the most. Throw in a little Mach Rider if done right, and I'm game too.

That....was one of THE most dumbest things I've read
in this thread. I'm sorry, but Shadow too similar to M2?! Lol, you just have to be trolling. Name me one move other than Chaos Control/Teleport that'd they have in common. Lmao, this is like saying MK or Zelda are similar to M2 because of their teleports XD

 

[GHNeko]

This thread is starting to get a bit out of hand. I suggest cooling it ya'll.

Sent from my SGH-T699 using Tapatalk 2

 

[hamyojo]

They should make another Fox that's like Melee/current Fox but he's twice the size so he has double the range and twice the hurtbox size
it's perfect

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

"Batman and robin" = Sonic and Tails, not Knux. If anything Batman and Catwoman = Sonic and Knux. Since I don't know much about Batman, I'll use a different analogy. Goku and Vegata = Sonic and Shadow. Goku and Krillin = Sonic and Tails. Goku and Piccolo = Sonic and Knux. What would you rather have? And I didn't contradict myself. I DO NOT want another third party rep, but IF I was to choose one, I'd pick Shadow.

On a totally random note, Krillin was always my favorite. I actually like him, Piccolo, and Future Trunks more than I liked Vegeta, to be honest.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Lmao, Shadow was a boss battle in Sonic Generations, Knux was irrelevant inside that game as far as I know.

Oh goody? ONE level?
Knuckles had TWO side missions. (off the top of my head, there may be more)
A race, and a Medal search mission.
He also had MUCH more spoken dialogue than Shadow's single line at the near end of the game.
He also had MUCH more screen time as well.

On Shadow: Teleport, in Sonic Battle (the ONLY game where Shadow isn't a clone of Sonic) he uses dark (chaos) energy manipulation (Mewtwo's shadow ball variante in Melee) Don't forget Shadow is an artificial creation, just like Mewtwo.

Still, don't know why you make such a big deal about it. Not only are Sonic's friends at the very bottom of the priority list, but you're complaining about why more people like Knuckles than Shadow. What is there to complain about, people just prefer him? Don't vent this off on me. XD I have nothing to do with this. But I will gladly burst anyone's bubble who thinks Shadow is more relevant than he actually is.

-
Ugh, well since I'm force-posting, I'll try to contribute with something of essence to the topic.

Dixie as a DK clone sounds just about right to me. She could be, naturally, a speedier/weaker version... But how about dem throwing barrels? Would it be too broken? I'm surprised no DK character throws barrels to this day. Somebody tell me a throwing/rolling barrel
was at least considered for any of the DK crew members.

And say K.Rool doesn't make it to the SSB4 roster, I would naturally expect K.Rool to be playable over Dixie?

They should make another Fox that's like Melee/current Fox but he's twice the size so he has double the range and twice the hurtbox size

it's perfect

You know what, you gave me an idea.
When I added a General Scales texture over Wolf, the character model became HUGE.
It probably had a more advanced Size-mod embedded in it... because I don't recall getting the size mod separately... But anyway, having a GIANT spacy seemed like an awesome idea to have as a separate character.
Just food for thought, I guess. Not saying General Scales should be playable... but I won't deny it was awesome playing as a bigger "Wolf".

 

[AnOkayDM]

Dixie as a DK clone sounds just about right to me. She could be, naturally, a speedier/weaker version... But how about dem throwing barrels? Would it be too broken? I'm surprised no DK character throws barrels to this day. Somebody tell me a throwing/rolling barrel
was at least considered for any of the DK crew members.

And say K.Rool doesn't make it to the SSB4 roster, I would naturally expect K.Rool to be playable over Dixie?

Well, DK could throw them in Brawl Minus, but they were super broken. Which was kind of the point, I guess. Nevertheless, they'd definitely require some tweaking from the actual item, but it might be a cool projectile at some point.

I'd support King K. Rool over Dixie, but not by much.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Well, DK could throw them in Brawl Minus, but they were super broken. Which was kind of the point, I guess. Nevertheless, they'd definitely require some tweaking from the actual item, but it might be a cool projectile at some point.

I'd support King K. Rool over Dixie, but not by much.

Ah I see. NO worries then.

Ok, final question. When Roy was revealed, and the clone engine was announced, I recall there being certain rules to the characters that would benefit from this engine. I recall one being that said new character MUST be in some way, shape or form INSIDE Brawl data.
.... But what about the Castlevania stage? Is it going to be removed to follow this policy? Or are stages a bit more "forgiveable" to have?

 

[Kerenthar]

Actually supporting for Pokemon Trainer in order to catch all these pokes that are actually flooding the CSS, giving Pichu to him (and some others that make him to have the six pokemon, like in pokemon game), and making Sheik and Samus Z pickable via button combinations again. Will eventually clean the selection screen and will make to recover all the broken single player modes.

 

[Friesnchip]

Of those, I can see Ridley, Bowser Jr. and K. Rool as being very iconic. I love Isaac and his games, though they have a smaller presence being only on the handheld systems. Ridley's probably been around the longest out of all of them, considering Metroid outdates Kid Icarus by like 4 months...

Not to devalue any other characters mentioned, but Golden Sun (just the first) is in the top 40 best selling GBA games of all time with about 1.7 million in worldwide sales. Paired with Lost Age (1.2 mil) and Dark Dawn (670,000) the series has sold over 3.6 million in sales. Sure, the popularity is mostly centered in North America, but you know. Isaac does have somewhat of a presence, although I agree it is indeed smaller.

I mean compared to Mario Sunshine (Bowser Jr.'s first appearance) with roughly 6 mil worldwide, that ain't too shabby. Regardless, Bowser Jr. and King K. Rool would be pretty great characters to play as well.

 

[ChronoBound]

.... But what about the Castlevania stage? Is it going to be removed to follow this policy? Or are stages a bit more "forgiveable" to have?

I am not sure. Technically, a character like Dracula is public domain, and I don't think the Dracula's Castle stage is an environment ripped from a 3D Castlevania, so there should be nothing wrong with it (especially since they used no Castlevania music).

 

[Chzrm3]

Ugh, well since I'm force-posting, I'll try to contribute with something of essence to the topic.

Dixie as a DK clone sounds just about right to me. She could be, naturally, a speedier/weaker version... But how about dem throwing barrels? Would it be too broken? I'm surprised no DK character throws barrels to this day. Somebody tell me a throwing/rolling barrel
was at least considered for any of the DK crew members.

And say K.Rool doesn't make it to the SSB4 roster, I would naturally expect K.Rool to be playable over Dixie?

A barrel would be a really cool projectile, imo. Especially if it could be thrown at varying speeds, so that some barrels could be moving reeeeeal slowly, like Lucario's ball when he uses a charge to beef it up, and others could be bumping along pretty quickly. Beyond just that, it's a projectile that'd be rolling on the ground instead of flying through space, so it cares about platforms and stuff. It'd be interesting to see what kind of pressure having barrels on battlefield would create, for example.

That said, I think DK's fighting style is really perfect, and giving him a projectile might totally break the character. I love that barrel idea for Dixie, though. I'm still really enamored with the idea of her being based off DK and using her hair for his long-range tilts and meaty aerials, and making her side-B lob out a barrel instead of doing the headbutt would be cooooool.

 

[Friesnchip]

I am not sure. Technically, a character like Dracula is public domain, and I don't think the Dracula's Castle stage is an environment ripped from a 3D Castlevania, so there should be nothing wrong with it (especially since they used no Castlevania music).

Well, they use the Castlevania name, logo, and it is heavily based on an area from Castlevania Lament of Innocence/other similar 3D Casltevania games. And they did probably use some resources from a 3D Castlevania game, the background models in that stage go on forever, I can't image they modeled all of that and left so much of it go to waste.

 

[ChronoBound]

Well, they use the Castlevania name, logo, and it is heavily based on an area from Castlevania Lament of Innocence/other similar 3D Casltevania games. And they did probably use some resources from a 3D Castlevania game, the background models in that stage go on forever, I can't image they modeled all of that and left so much of it go to waste.

Ok, then I have no idea why they included it then.

Looking forward to the next release of Project M, hopefully we get Samus for it (and hopefully some day a playable Ridley).

 

[Dark Sonic]

Shadow should've stayed dead after Sonic Adventure 2.

He'd be a more liked and respected character.

2cents

 

[shinhed-echi]

I am not sure. Technically, a character like Dracula is public domain, and I don't think the Dracula's Castle stage is an environment ripped from a 3D Castlevania, so there should be nothing wrong with it (especially since they used no Castlevania music).

Ah, yeah more or less what I was thinking. Simon might be a little farfetched then.
(Part of me misses the days when "Nintendo characters" meant any character appearing on an NES/SNES system, lol)
Still, I can't complain about a roster of Nintendo-all-stars.
I'm good with the Brawl roster + Roy + Mewtwo, anything else is a welcome extra to me.

A barrel would be a really cool projectile, imo. Especially if it could be thrown at varying speeds, so that some barrels could be moving reeeeeal slowly, like Lucario's ball when he uses a charge to beef it up, and others could be bumping along pretty quickly. Beyond just that, it's a projectile that'd be rolling on the ground instead of flying through space, so it cares about platforms and stuff. It'd be interesting to see what kind of pressure having barrels on battlefield would create, for example.

That said, I think DK's fighting style is really perfect, and giving him a projectile might totally break the character. I love that barrel idea for Dixie, though. I'm still really enamored with the idea of her being based off DK and using her hair for his long-range tilts and meaty aerials, and making her side-B lob out a barrel instead of doing the headbutt would be cooooool.

I'm all for a Dixie with ground barrel projectile attacks. As you said, Donkey is fine as he is without projectiles. It would kind of neat for a lightweight character to have at least one strong move.
I can see a very nice approach via throw barrel + dash after it. (At least against weak projectiles like Fox Blaster)

 

[F. Blue]

Make a Dracula assist trophy. Just do it.