Clone Engine Misc. Discussion Thread

[NisforSmash]

Silver? What game is he from?

Spoiler

Sonic 06 is not canon. The game erases itself from existence at the end

I think he's from one of the sonic games on the xbox. the reason I said him is because he's the slowest of all the sonic characters but is telekinetic. imo he would play like a combination of ness, Zelda and mewtwo. he's not really physical at all so pretty much all of his attacks would be some form of telekinesis.

 

[ChronoBound]

At this point in the game, I wouldn't be surprised if they have already decided on the newcomers.

Vigilante told me they are still deciding them (though I think most likely they probably decided two of the five spots, probably even three).

Would any Project M team members clarify if the spots have been determined yet? And if so, how many?

If they don't wish to be specific, just say, "we are still deciding".

I still think they should hold off on the last slot.

 

[NisforSmash]

Little Mac would take an insane amount of work to do. Boxing moves would be incredibly hard to animate (aside from basic jabs), especially when you use them for all attacks. Just imagine an uppercut (and no, not a Lucario uppercut, but an actual boxer's uppercut) or a low blow, which involve the entire body.

Starfy is a legit character, but once again his animations are incredibly bizarre give his star shape, which you'd have to bend and stuff.




You mean those guys whose names I can't even remember and just appeared for one game and/or acted as bosses? In a game of Nintendo's all stars? When Ridley (#1 choice for series recognizable character) and Dark Samus (#1 choice for ease on workload) are much more deserving?

You guys gotta put some thought behind the work behind character, how feasible they are, and if they're actually even wroth it (Silver? Leon?) before rattling off a bunch of names and saying "I think they should do these characters!"

I agree that little mac would take an extensive amount of work and I've already accepted that he most likely won't get in. I just wanted to throw my ideas out.

as for silver and leon, I already stated i'd be happy with just have one representative from the sonic series but if they were to add another, I would prefer one of the four I had listed. if you look up silver in comparison to all the other sonic characters, his playstyle would be completely different. leon is wolf's right hand man so I thought it would be cool if a fourth spacie could be added from team starwolf lke him or krystal.

I like the idea of dark samus but idk about ridley seeing as how he's already a boss that is significantly larger than the cast.

 

[ChronoBound]

I agree that little mac would take an extensive amount of work and I've already accepted that he most likely won't get in. I just wanted to throw my ideas out.

I like the idea of dark samus but idk about ridley seeing as how he's already a boss that is significantly larger than the cast.

Little Mac is also highly rumored to be in the actual Smash 4 (the same person that leaked Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, and Mega Man prior to E3 also said Little Mac, Mii, and Pac Man will be in Smash 4).

As for Ridley's size, size is easily manipulable in a non-canon game like Smash Bros. Olimar and the Kirby characters are canonically far tinier than the rest of the roster, while characters like Ganondorf and Bowser are typically giants in their main series.

 

[Skieth]

black shadow: by adding him you really get 2 characters by freeing up ganons moveset

I completely agree. I really enjoy ganon's moveset, but ... its really not appropriate at all. I've been thinking about overhauling ganon to just be black shadow and turning ganondorf into a heavy/slow link clone (for lack of creativity).

leon: wolf is to fox as leon is to falco.

I mentioned a few pages back that I'm upset about the unique falco moves lost between brawl and PM. I feel like melee falco and brawl falco could be separate characters in PM; perhaps one would visually be changed to leon or peppy, etc.

knuckles,Amy, blaze or silver: if they add one from the sonic series my vote would be on one of these four but for the record id rather it be used on someone else

Yeah, I would really enjoy some sonic clones in the game. Maybe they'll be just skins a la Dr. Mario, but I think sonic's moveset is solid enough now to warrant a permutation or two.

For the time being, I don't expect to be seeing any new movesets from scratch. If they did turn some trophy into a playable character, even if it was a clone, it would be amazing.

 

[NisforSmash]

Little Mac is also highly rumored to be in the actual Smash 4 (the same person that leaked Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, and Mega Man prior to E3 also said Little Mac, Mii, and Pac Man will be in Smash 4).

As for Ridley's size, size is easily manipulable in a non-canon game like Smash Bros. Olimar and the Kirby characters are canonically far tinier than the rest of the roster, while characters like Ganondorf and Bowser are typically giants in their main series.

I know size is easily manipulable but it wouldn't make sense to have a boss character that's huge but also small and playable. idk that just doesn't seem professional to me. it'd be the same as making rayquaza a playable character and a boss. if they really wanted ridley they would have to change him as a boss to something or someone else which is just extra work. I don't have anything against ridley, I just don't know how they could pull it off with him already appearing as a boss twice.

 

[ChronoBound]

I know size is easily manipulable but it wouldn't make sense to have a boss character that's huge but also small and playable. idk that just doesn't seem professional to me. it'd be the same as making rayquaza a playable character and a boss. if they really wanted ridley they would have to change him as a boss to something or someone else which is just extra work. I don't have anything against ridley, I just don't know how they could pull it off with him already appearing as a boss twice.

I guess characters like Lyn and Isaac are also off limits due to them being Assist Trophies. I think the confirmation of any of those two characters, will show the flaws of this kind of thinking.

Besides, the SSE was trash.

 

[Anti Guy]

I know size is easily manipulable but it wouldn't make sense to have a boss character that's huge but also small and playable. idk that just doesn't seem professional to me. it'd be the same as making rayquaza a playable character and a boss. if they really wanted ridley they would have to change him as a boss to something or someone else which is just extra work. I don't have anything against ridley, I just don't know how they could pull it off with him already appearing as a boss twice.

This is actually pretty valid, considering the PMBR's attention to detail. I guess we'll see how much that actually matters to them.

Regarding Assist Trophies though, can't they just turn the trophy off?

Either way, I don't care about either since I don't do the 1 player mode and I don't use items

 

[NisforSmash]

I guess characters like Lyn and Isaac are also off limits due to them being Assist Trophies. I think the confirmation of any of those two characters, will show the flaws of this kind of thinking.

Besides, the SSE was trash.

I didn't even think of that....
Well wouldn't it be easier to change an assist trophy as opposed to a boss? although that would still be extra work.
idk anymore.

SSE could've used some work. not gonna lie.

 

[ChronoBound]

I didn't even think of that....
Well wouldn't it be easier to change an assist trophy as opposed to a boss? although that would still be extra work.
idk anymore.

SSE could've used some work. not gonna lie.

They could simply remove Assist Trophies of the playable characters that happen to be Assist Trophies or the boss forms of Ridley from the game (or simply remove just regular Ridley and leave Meta Ridley as a boss).

They have already removed stages that were originally in Brawl, so this is not far fetched.

Keep in mind too, we have a playable King Dedede, and a stage where King Dedede flies in the background (Dream Land 64).

 

[NisforSmash]

Regarding Assist Trophies though, can't they just turn the trophy off?

Either way, I don't care about either since I don't do the 1 player mode and I don't use items

They could turn them off but idk if that's the best answer. Maybe just remove lyn/isaac from assist trophy status and make her a full character.

yea same but if they work on single player that'd just show an even higher level of professionalism.

i'd personally be all for removing SSE, extending the event matches to be more of trials/challenges for each character a la tower mode from mk9, making all star a survival esque mode like in tekken tag 2 and making classic the new solo mode. just my $0.02

 

[NisforSmash]

They could simply remove Assist Trophies of the playable characters that happen to be Assist Trophies or the boss forms of Ridley from the game (or simply remove just regular Ridley and leave Meta Ridley as a boss).

They have already removed stages that were originally in Brawl, so this is not far fetched.

Keep in mind too, we have a playable King Dedede, and a stage where King Dedede flies in the background (Dream Land 64).

true but then that would just mess up SSE.
as for the D3 double occurance.....idk you got me there. have a cookie.

 

[ChronoBound]

true but then that would just mess up SSE.
as for the D3 double occurance.....idk you got me there. have a cookie.

I think overall most people would rather have a playable Ridley, than no playable Ridley at all. So even if they are unable to remove boss Ridley, I think the overwhelming majority of Ridley fans would still be absolutely ecstatic about a playable Ridley.

As I said before, at this point in Smash Bros. its hard to think of a character that is more popular, iconic, and important to his/her franchise than Ridley that has not playable in Smash Bros. yet (strictly going by the veteran franchises).

 

[Anti Guy]

They could turn them off but idk if that's the best answer. Maybe just remove lyn/isaac from assist trophy status and make her a full character.

That's what I meant. Turn off the specific character, not the assist trophy item itself.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think this needs repeating:

Would any Project M team members clarify if the spots have been determined yet? And if so, how many?

If they don't wish to be specific, just say, "we are still deciding".

I still think they should hold off on the last slot.

 

[shinhed-echi]

My perfect clone character for Project M would have to be Knuckles, where he plays EXACTLY like Brawl Sonic, except with MORE power, and the glide + wall cling mechanic.

If Sakurai made Falco to appeal to SSB64 Fox players.. why can't PMBR make a PM Knuckles clone to appeal to Brawl Sonic players?
(not trying to be on any high horse or anything, just wondering, lol)

The Glide could replace the Homing Attack which is the only attack from Brawl Sonic that Knuckles doesn't (canonically) have.

EDIT:
Wall clinging is still in P:M, right? Something tells me it isn't anymore, lol.

 

[NisforSmash]

That's what I meant. Turn off the specific character, not the assist trophy item itself.

oh, yea that makes much more sense.

 

[ChronoBound]

The only hesitation I would have regarding them adding in Dixie Kong is that she does stand a good chance of getting added into Smash 4. However, I think we will know by February whether she will actually be playable in Smash 4 (since Sakurai has a tendency to tie character confirmations with new software releases).

 

[NisforSmash]

My perfect clone character for Project M would have to be Knuckles, where he plays EXACTLY like Brawl Sonic, except with MORE power, and the glide + wall cling mechanic.

If Sakurai made Falco to appeal to SSB64 Fox players.. why can't PMBR make a PM Knuckles clone to appeal to Brawl Sonic players?
(not trying to be on any high horse or anything, just wondering, lol)

The Glide could replace the Homing Attack which is the only attack from Brawl Sonic that Knuckles doesn't (canonically) have.

EDIT:
Wall clinging is still in P:M, right? Something tells me it isn't anymore, lol.

there is the issue of whether the sonic series deserves another rep. sonic is a guest and just like with any invitation only house party, if you're a guest don't bring friends; go alone. however if they should choose to add another sonic rep i'd be all for this but with less brawl sonic and more unique knuckles.

 

[NisforSmash]

The only hesitation I would have regarding them adding in Dixie Kong is that she does stand a good chance of getting added into Smash 4. However, I think we will know by February whether she will actually be playable in Smash 4 (since Sakurai has a tendency to tie character confirmations with new software releases).

yea that's my fear as well. if sakurai adds Dixie, he'll inadvertently stop the dk series from expanding in M

 

[TheKk-47]

Why are people choosing Knux as a second Sonic rep? He's a very irrelevant character in a sorta irrelevant third party series. Plus, his moveset will be generic punches and maybe a couple fire attacks, plus a glide ability and spindash. Pretty boring, much rather see Shadow(why does he get so much hate as a character) due to his unique Chaos abilites, guns, and better fighting than Sonic. Or Silver, a slower character that'll be like a mix of Zelda and M2 but with his own special abilities, and levitation.

 

[NisforSmash]

Why are people choosing Knux as a second Sonic rep? He's a very irrelevant character in a sorta irrelevant third party series. Plus, his moveset will be generic punches and maybe a couple fire attacks, plus a glide ability and spindash. Pretty boring, much rather see Shadow(why does he get so much hate as a character) due to his unique Chaos abilites, guns, and better fighting than Sonic. Or Silver, a slower character that'll be like a mix of Zelda and M2 but with his own special abilities, and levitation.

I agree with silver but not so much shadow. personally I just don't like him but if they were to add him I know he'd be an ok character. plus you kind of contradicted your own suggestion by suggesting the series is irrelevant. if that is so then the sonic series doesn't need another rep thus eliminating shadow.

 

[ChronoBound]

Why are people choosing Knux as a second Sonic rep? He's a very irrelevant character in a sorta irrelevant third party series. Plus, his moveset will be generic punches and maybe a couple fire attacks, plus a glide ability and spindash. Pretty boring, much rather see Shadow(why does he get so much hate as a character) due to his unique Chaos abilites, guns, and better fighting than Sonic. Or Silver, a slower character that'll be like a mix of Zelda and M2 but with his own special abilities, and levitation.

Knuckles would be the least bad choice for a second Sonic character. After that, Tails.

Shadow (and especially Silver) would be horrible.

I rather not see a second Sonic character be added, but between Knuckles and something like Waluigi, I would grudgingly go with Knuckles.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Why are people choosing Knux as a second Sonic rep? He's a very irrelevant character in a sorta irrelevant third party series. Plus, his moveset will be generic punches and maybe a couple fire attacks, plus a glide ability and spindash. Pretty boring, much rather see Shadow(why does he get so much hate as a character) due to his unique Chaos abilites, guns, and better fighting than Sonic. Or Silver, a slower character that'll be like a mix of Zelda and M2 but with his own special abilities, and levitation.

Knuckles is the 3rd Sonic character with most playable appearances. Pretty far from VERY irrelevant.
Shadow hasn't even appeared in a Sonic game since Sonic and the Black Knight... where he played a very similar role to Knuckles.
After that... nothing. But Knuckles does appear in Lost World so that makes him MORE relevant than Shadow.

Plus... isn't this supposed to be a discussion about having CLONE characters? Therefore Shadow (who ironically has been 99% of the time a Sonic clone with one extra move/gimmick anyway) shouldn't have to sport so many new moves.

A recolor fits him more than fine, IMO. I'll take Tails, Knuckles, and even Metal Sonic over Shadow.


-

But ok... I guess a 2nd Sonic character would be one of the last character choices the PM staff would go for...
For now I'll stick to the plumber trio as my (placeholder) mains. Though I'm very tempted on picking up Roy for old time's sake.

 

[TheKk-47]

How'd I contradict myself? I believe Sonic shouldn't get a second rep, but if he did it should be Shadow. I've noticed most people don't want Shadow in because they just hate him. That's pretty stupid considering this is a fighting game and not a story driven game so we don't have to deal with his bs. His moveset is obviously more unique and fun than Tails or Knux, and Silver's moveset would be better too. Not adding in Shadow is as if we had Naruto(sonic) and instead of adding Sasuke(shadow), they added Kiba(knux), pretty dumb choice imho.

 

[NisforSmash]

How'd I contradict myself?

Why are people choosing Knux as a second Sonic rep? He's a very irrelevant character in a sorta irrelevant third party series.

you call the series irrelevant yet promote shadow as a character. I too would prefer if the sonic series didn't receive a character but I didn't go as far as to call it irrelevant. if the sonic series is irrelevant than what does that make shadow? he was introduced after both knuckles and tails and in theory is the hero in his own sort of series. sure he's a major antihero in sonic but i'd rather have "batman and robin" as opposed to "batman and catwoman".

 

[ChronoBound]

yea that's my fear as well. if sakurai adds Dixie, he'll inadvertently stop the dk series from expanding in M

Well, its possible that Sakurai adds Dixie Kong, but not K. Rool (though K. Rool would take far more work). Its also possible Sakurai adds all four major DK characters in.

At least for Dixie Kong, we will know some time in February whether she will be in the actual Smash 4.

The speculation seems to go that K. Rool is more likely than Dixie Kong for Smash 4.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Well I don't hate Shadow, I just don't like the sudden surge of "Anthros with superpowers" in Sonic games.

To me Shadow would be just another energy-type user like Mewtwo and Lucario. (In fact... Shadow would almost be TOO similar to Mewtwo)

I much rather have Eggman in a heavy mech. Where he could shoot semi-charged Superscope blasts (or charge it up to be as powerful as a Landmaster blast). He could have a bumper shield. He could have a shorter version of ROB'S vanilla recovery, and shoot land mines similar to Snake's.
THAT would be a lot more unique, IMO.

-

Alright, enough from Sonic from me.
I prefer to discuss more viable options, since a new Sonic character is kind of a pipe dream now.

Balloon Fighter and Solo Pokemon Trainer are the two characters who I support the most. Throw in a little Mach Rider if done right, and I'm game too.

 

[NisforSmash]

The speculation seems to go that K. Rool is more likely than Dixie Kong for Smash 4.

i'd hope so as well. tbh I don't see much of a moveset for krool personally so I hope sakurai does something wit him over dixie

 

[shinhed-echi]

What about, in tradition of Super Smash Bros, a new joke character as well?

The team could get creative here. Anything from a Tetris block (which I never liked the idea TBH) to Duck Hunt Dog, Mudkip, the N64 Logo, a Polygon team member... or a more competitive viable Master hand.

 

[Anti Guy]

What about, in tradition of Super Smash Bros, a new joke character as well?

The team could get creative here. Anything from a Tetris block (which I never liked the idea TBH) to Duck Hunt Dog, Mudkip, the N64 Logo, a Polygon team member... or a more competitive viable Master hand.

Since when has Smash Bros had a tradition of joke characters?

 

[shinhed-echi]

Since when has Smash Bros had a tradition of joke characters?

Are you the only one who didn't find Jiggs to be a joke character in SSB, or Pichu in Melee? (And I know you were totally predicting this answer, so let's hear what you got)

Jiggs dies upon breakshield, how was that not meant to be funny if it's still around?
And Pichu hurts himself, he was never meant to be a powerful character.

I admit nothing of the sort was included in Brawl, though.

 

[NisforSmash]

I prefer to discuss more viable options, since a new Sonic character is kind of a pipe dream now.
.

Agreed

Balloon Fighter and Solo Pokemon Trainer are the two characters who I support the most. Throw in a little Mach Rider if done right, and I'm game too.

balloon figher is already being represented in smash 4 via the villager. if the pmbr aren't pushing their luck already, adding balloon fighter would really be sticking our foot in a tigers mouth.

solo Pokémon trainer...interesting however I doubt it will happen because Pokémon is already well represented and trainer really doesn't have much "meat" to him without his Pokémon.

Mach Rider isn't really viable and doesn't represent much.

i'd hate to shoot down your options but....that's just how it is.

 

[Phaiyte]

I can confirm that seeing Shadow makes me a mad human being and any time my opponent would pick Shadow, I would want to destroy their preadult bodies in RL.

Tails or Knuckles is cool though.

Shadow was probably the last decent character to come out of the franchise though. I just completely ignored his game and it's all good from there.

 

[NisforSmash]

Are you the only one who didn't find Jiggs to be a joke character in SSB, or Pichu in Melee? (And I know you were totally predicting this answer, so let's hear what you got)

Jiggs dies upon breakshield, how was that not meant to be funny if it's still around?
And Pichu hurts himself, he was never meant to be a powerful character.

I admit nothing of the sort was included in Brawl, though.

I never thought of them as jokes but rather poorly designed which didn't help their already feeble and not so viable nature.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Agreed



balloon figher is already being represented in smash 4 via the villager. if the pmbr aren't pushing their luck already, adding balloon fighter would really be sticking our foot in a tigers mouth.

solo Pokémon trainer...interesting however I doubt it will happen because Pokémon is already well represented and trainer really doesn't have much "meat" to him without his Pokémon.

Mach Rider isn't really viable and doesn't represent much.

i'd hate to shoot down your options but....that's just how it is.

Heh, well that totally beats ignoring them, so shoot away!

I never thought of them as jokes but rather poorly designed which didn't help their already feeble and not so viable nature.

Well that's certainly another way of seeing them.

-
Anyway, on second thought I've been here all morning. Gonna go some other stuff.
Take care ppl!

 

[ChronoBound]

i'd hope so as well. tbh I don't see much of a moveset for krool personally so I hope sakurai does something wit him over dixie

K. Rool has tons of moveset potential from the DKC trilogy and DK64. Heck, one of the primary reasons why K. Rool is as highly supported as he is is due to the potential he has.

 

[loganhogan]

Mewtwo looks very impressive!

 

[Tuvillo]

I wonder why I never paid attention to people shouting Palutena.

Pretty much a must now that Kid Icarus has been recently upgraded to a real series, with a very impressive game, to boot.

 

[Friesnchip]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but the announcer for SSBB, Pat Cashman, being the swell guy that he is, has done requests and whatnot for announcing characters in the past. I've had this link for awhile, but here you go.

http://www.dmajohnson.com/junk/smash/Announcer.mp3

Characters like Roy and Mewtwo are present, along with others like Isaac. I thought this might spark some discussion, so let me know what you guys think.