Clone Engine Misc. Discussion Thread

[ChronoBound]

I'm all for a Dixie with ground barrel projectile attacks. As you said, Donkey is fine as he is without projectiles. It would kind of neat for a lightweight character to have at least one strong move.
I can see a very nice approach via throw barrel + dash after it. (At least against weak projectiles like Fox Blaster)

Dixie Kong can technically borrow all of DK and Diddy's specials.

Diddy Kong:
- The Peanut Popgun (though in Tropical Freeze her's shoots out gumballs)

Donkey Kong:
- DK's recovery (only with Dixie Kong she would be swinging with her oversized ponytail in a helicopter fashion, as opposed to with DK's fists).
- Ground Pound (though Dixie does this with her oversized ponytail in Tropical Freeze).
- Konga Drums (Dixie Kong has been a playable character in the Donkey Konga games)

She could also borrow some A-moves from Diddy and DK (though her body and limbs are much more similar to Diddy). However, she most certainly would need a few a-moves using her ponytail as an attack.

 

[Grey Belnades]

Gib me Lyn please.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Why are people choosing Knux as a second Sonic rep? He's a very irrelevant character in a sorta irrelevant third party series. Plus, his moveset will be generic punches and maybe a couple fire attacks, plus a glide ability and spindash. Pretty boring, much rather see Shadow(why does he get so much hate as a character) due to his unique Chaos abilites, guns, and better fighting than Sonic. Or Silver, a slower character that'll be like a mix of Zelda and M2 but with his own special abilities, and levitation.

Because he's rougher than the rest of 'em, the best of 'em, tougher than leather. Unlike Sonic he don't chuckle, he'd rather flex his muscles. He's tough as nails, it ain't hard to tell, he'll break em down whether they're solid or frail. Unlike the rest he's been independent since his first breath.

Shadow is disliked because his storyline outside of Sonic Adventure 2 is an emo-crapshoot filled with overly dramatic dialogue that has no weight to it because it's a Sonic the Hedgehog game and story has never been it's strong point.

Silver is disliked because the game where he was introduced is also the single worst Sonic the Hedgehog game ever made and considering that this is a world where Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Heroes, and Sonic R exist, that's a pretty big accomplishment.

Where as Knuckles represents the series at it's absolute best. When he broke onto the Sonic scene, Sonic was at the height of popularity and he got two (technically one, but they released it as two) games where he was an important rival/enemy and up to that point he was the only non-mechanical furry creature that wasn't helping you. He was strong, could climb walls, glide and he was red, which for many was good enough reason to play him. Well, kids anyways. (Shut up, I liked Red.)

I believe that Knuckles has more potential because he doesn't have to be the same as Sonic nor was he originally designed to be his copy, which Shadow absolutely was. In SA2, Shadow does everything exactly the same as Sonic, except not as well. It wasn't until Shadow's own game that he differentiated himself in any way.

Just looking at Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles for examples, you can come up with a few basics for how he should work.
1) He is not as fast as Sonic, cannot jump as high, but is much heavier than either Sonic or Tails. I base this off his ability to break thick rocks that Sonic can't break, just by jumping on them. His shoes are also plated with thick bolts and partially made of metal, which must weigh him down considerably.
2) He's strong. This is obvious, since he broke Super Sonic out of the transformation state with just his physical power. He can also break rocks with his fists.
3) He can glide and climb walls, so he could obviously glide in P:M as well as join the ranks of Wall Clingers...which there are only four of.

If we take into account Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2, Knuckles gets a few more things that would function well in the Smash world.
4) He can dive from the air at an accelerated speed.
5) His fist fighting style is expanded upon slightly and he gets a sort of Terry Bogard-like, Burning Knuckle punch.
6) He can dig himself into the ground. It could be implemented as a sort of dodge/counter attack.

From other games, he's gained a ground shockwave punch attack similar to Wario's Dsmash, but with more range, depending on the game it's in. He has essentially a Shoryuken in Sonic Advance which could be his up-B.

In any case, I get that this has been discussed before, but I wanted to add my own two cents to the topic. Sonic probably shouldn't get an extra character, but if it did, I'd like to see Knuckles. He's my favorite Sonic character, even though he always gets the short end of the stick.

 

[ChronoBound]

So how about these for the five newcomers in Project M:
- Isaac
- Dixie Kong
- Lyn
- Sami/Andy/Knuckles/Black Shadow & de-cloned Ganondorf/ Bowser Jr. (not really sure here)
- Ridley (as I said before there should definitely be a Metroid newcomer in Project M, and if Ridley is not in Smash 4, they should definitely make him for Project M).

What do you guys think?

 

[Solbliminal]

So how about these for the five newcomers in Project M:
- Isaac
- Dixie Kong
- Lyn
- Sami/Andy/Knuckles/Black Shadow & de-cloned Ganondorf/ Bowser Jr. (not really sure here)
- Ridley (as I said before there should definitely be a Metroid newcomer in Project M, and if Ridley is not in Smash 4, they should definitely make him for Project M).

What do you guys think?

Honestly I have no arguments here. That list has a great set of choices. If any of them made it I would be fine. I would be fine with just about any characters really. Especially more female reps like Dixie and Lyn.

 

[NisforSmash]

"Batman and robin" = Sonic and Tails, not Knux. If anything Batman and Catwoman = Sonic and Knux. Since I don't know much about Batman, I'll use a different analogy. Goku and Vegata = Sonic and Shadow. Goku and Krillin = Sonic and Tails. Goku and Piccolo = Sonic and Knux. What would you rather have? And I didn't contradict myself. I DO NOT want another third party rep, but IF I was to choose one, I'd pick Shadow.

that analogy is better. I get your point

 

[#HBC | Joker]

- Ridley (as I said before there should definitely be a Metroid newcomer in Project M, and if Ridley is not in Smash 4, they should definitely make him for Project M).

What do you guys think?

but Ridley is too big

 

[ChronoBound]

but Ridley is too big

This has become more a meme than an argument (its been shot down way too many times and there is many, many size inconsistencies in Smash Bros. as it is), although I think you are being facetious in that post.

 

[NisforSmash]

but Ridley is too big

while this is true, if the PMBR wants to clock in the hours, Ridley deserves to be in.

 

[ChronoBound]

while this is true, if the PMBR wants to clock in the hours, Ridley deserves to be in.

Lots of characters in Smash Bros. have been resized. Namely nearly all of the Pokemon characters, Olimar, the Kirby trio, Ganondorf, and Bowser (in the main series he is a giant).

Ridley himself has also been resized before in Smash Bros. (the Melee intro).

 

[Solbliminal]

This has become more a meme than an argument (its been shot down way too many times and there is many, many size inconsistencies in Smash Bros. as it is), although I think you are being facetious in that post.

I'm with Chrono. The size arguement gets pretty old. If we went by canonical sizes, Olimar, Kirby and a few others would be leagues smaller than the actual cast. Ganondorf and Bowser have been huge, even at times bigger than Ridley. The argument has no substance. Even if I'm not a Metroid fan, I believe every character deserves an equal chance at a slot. That includes Ridley, Dark Samus, Pichu, Young Link or Shadow, despite the ridiculous arguments brought about by said choices. A free character is nothing to argue about. Even if it isn't your taste. Who knows, maybe that character could end up sparking your interest. Have an open mind people.

 

[splat]

So how about these for the five newcomers in Project M:

- Isaac

Isaac is a huge effort, I think - especially on the article part - and I wonder if it's worth said effort.

I've included him in my prediction rosters since the announcement of Brawl, but I can't help but wonder: do people really want to see Isaac, or is it more a general idea of "we're probably going to get Isaac, might as well include him"?

I'm not arguing that he's a bad choice by any means though: he's recognizable and could bring something different to the table - I just question if he'd bring more hype than say, someone like Shulk (a character with somewhat similiar properties (I know, very different, but two swordsmen with sort of "magic empowered" abilities)).

EDIT: I just read through the lot of this thread, and it really does appear people generally like Isaac - and request him a lot. In that case, do it, I'd say.

- Dixie Kong

I think Dixie is among the lowest hanging fruits. Doesn't make it any less tasty though.

While I'm generally not that much of a Dixie fan, I'd be pretty hyped to see her in Project M - she is a big face among the Nintendo cast, after all - even bigger than K. Rool at this point, I reckon. She could be fitted in with relatively low effort, basing her on Diddy - it makes sense.

Personally, I care little about the male/female ratio in a roster. We're playing a game that celebrates Nintendo's biggest characters, putting in less important characters just because they're female should be avoided for that reason. The fact that Dixie ticks both of these boxes would make most people happy.

- Lyn

Character-wise, I'm not that interested in Lyn; probably because I've yet to play a Fire Emblem game (I wanted to pick up Awakenings a while ago, but it was sold out everywhere).

However, I am interested in how she'd play.

I think I feel similar about her as I do about Isaac. Interested to see how the character would play, unsure if the characters themselves are interesting enough.

- Sami/Andy/Knuckles/Black Shadow & de-cloned Ganondorf/ Bowser Jr. (not really sure here)

Wildcard slot?
I wouldn't care much for a Snake-based Sami or Andy. If any, those two should receive a custom set.

Keep the current third parties, don't add more I'd say. No new Sonic characters or Metal Gear characters should be added before the Nintendo set is complete.

Black Shadow & Ganondorf is an interesting option, to say the least, but I can't help but ask: why, exactly? I know quite a few people that play Ganondorf and like the way he plays, changing him could upset the current players (I think this is what stopping Sakurai in changing Ganondorf too much as well).

I must admit, I am a huge fan of the Mario series, enjoyed Sunshine and enjoyed the introduction of Bowser Jr.. I'd enjoy seeing Jr. in Smash at one point, but not yet. There's too many characters that should get priority over him.

As my personal pick, I'm still leaning towards Mother 3's Masked Man. My hype levels would burst through the roof.

- Ridley (as I said before there should definitely be a Metroid newcomer in Project M, and if Ridley is not in Smash 4, they should definitely make him for Project M).

I've always been terribly conflicted about Ridley.

On one hand, it's possibly the biggest (figuratively) Nintendo that's not playable. On the other hand, I've yet to see a Ridley PSA that doesn't look incredibly awkward. If the PMBR can fit him in without making him feel shoehorned, all power to them, but his proportions (not his size, his proportions) make me question if that's even possible.

What do you guys think?

Overall, proper picks. Possibly some of the best/most interesting around.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I really don't think they need to, or even should, add more new characters. Why, because they can? They're already gonna have the entire brawl cast, with the PT split into 3 individual characters, plus 2 more returning melee vets. That is already the largest roster a smash game has ever had. How big do you need the character select screen to be? It's not even like you're not getting new stuff, either. They've totally reworked the way a lot of characters fight. This is a new game. It does not need to be "the ultimate super smash bros, which encapsulates all that smash has ever been, and ever will be". It's just needs to be "a damn good smash game", and it's already that.

 

[Solbliminal]

I really don't think they need to, or even should, add more new characters. Why, because they can? They're already gonna have the entire brawl cast, with the PT split into 3 individual characters, plus 2 more returning melee vets. That is already the largest roster a smash game has ever had. How big do you need the character select screen to be? It's not even like you're not getting new stuff, either. They've totally reworked the way a lot of characters fight. This is a new game. It does not need to be "the ultimate super smash bros, which encapsulates all that smash has ever been, and ever will be". It's just needs to be "a damn good smash game", and it's already that.

And yet Project M expresses interest in adding new characters. The 7 slots they are using were to be filled to begin with when the game was in development. Due to time constraints, they released the game without said characters. You are saying that new content is a bad thing? Even if it were meant to be there from the start? They are restricted to those slots and may not even fill them all. Your argument is completely pointless. If they want to add characters that is their choice. We, as fans, are allowed to express interest in characters we want to see. Not everyone will be getting their wish. You can continue to express disinterest in an additional cast, but your argument will fall on deaf ears.

 

[Xinc]

I really don't think they need to, or even should, add more new characters. Why, because they can? They're already gonna have the entire brawl cast, with the PT split into 3 individual characters, plus 2 more returning melee vets. That is already the largest roster a smash game has ever had. How big do you need the character select screen to be? It's not even like you're not getting new stuff, either. They've totally reworked the way a lot of characters fight. This is a new game. It does not need to be "the ultimate super smash bros, which encapsulates all that smash has ever been, and ever will be". It's just needs to be "a damn good smash game", and it's already that.

There's more to it than just new characters. And with new characters and thus a new metagame, it will be "a damn good smash game."

 

[ChronoBound]

The seven additional characters were supposed to be:
- Mewtwo (already in)
- Roy (already in)
- Dr. Mario (an alternate costume that can throw pills, which is probably for the better)
- Dixie Kong (popular choice to be one of the newcomers for Project M)
- Toon Zelda
- Toon Sheik
- Pra_Mai

So basically (assuming Dixie Kong is added in), we will only be getting four characters that were never intended to be playable in Brawl.

 

[MagnesD3]

Ridley use charizard model.
Lyn use Marth model.
Issac use link model?
Krystal use fox model
Saki use also links model?
Dixie use diddy model
Waluigi use Luigi model
King k Rool use d3 model?
Dark Samus use Samus model

 

[shinhed-echi]

So how about these for the five newcomers in Project M:
- Isaac
- Dixie Kong
- Lyn
- Sami/Andy/Knuckles/Black Shadow & de-cloned Ganondorf/ Bowser Jr. (not really sure here)
- Ridley (as I said before there should definitely be a Metroid newcomer in Project M, and if Ridley is not in Smash 4, they should definitely make him for Project M).

What do you guys think?

Isaac: All for it.

Dixie Kong: I guess if it can be done, why not? Dixie is pretty iconic, she's even been in several Mario spinoff titles. Seems like an easier character to work on... And I'm confnident she'd be unique enough.

Lyn: Well I've stated before how I feel about a 4th Fire Emblem swordsman... if we're going to have a katana user I'd prefer to go with Samurai Goroh. IRL I like LYN more, but I'd really prefer to see a 2nd F-Zero rep (who hopefully doesn't play like a 3rd captain falcon), before a 4th Fire Emblem one... so Goroh would be my way to go. If Falcon's fire, Goroh could be lightning. Anyway, this just off the top of my head. Lyn's a good choice, I would just go for Goroh personally.

Andy/Sami: A lighter-weight Snake clone of Andy/Sami sounds pretty dang awesome if you ask me. I would main these suckers immediately. This is by far my favorite request mentioned so far. (And notice I like Isaac more).

Ridley: Eh.... if it pleases his fans, and as long as he doesn't feel akward. (How do you guys feel about giving him his Boss Mode moves?)


Krystal: I like this one personally, as LONG as she doesn't play like a spacy (but still feels like one). Integrated staff melee combat is a MUST, otherwise don't even bother. :D


Waluigi: ... I'm a big fan of the 3 plumbers in PM (is Wario considered one?) and I'm sure Waluigi would have a funny and creative moveset. ... But if there's another franchise that's struggling with overcrowding the roster after Pokemon, it's Mario.

 

[ChronoBound]

Ridley: Eh.... if it pleases his fans, and as long as he doesn't feel akward. (How do you guys feel about giving him his Boss Mode moves?)

I think most Ridley fans would not mind. Some of his boss moves feel like specials anyway (such as the fireballs, and wind gust edge guard).

 

[CardiganBoy]

Jeff please

 

[Cubelarooso]

What do you guys think?

Needs more Sukapon.

 

[Chzrm3]

So how about these for the five newcomers in Project M:
- Isaac
- Dixie Kong
- Lyn
- Sami/Andy/Knuckles/Black Shadow & de-cloned Ganondorf/ Bowser Jr. (not really sure here)
- Ridley (as I said before there should definitely be a Metroid newcomer in Project M, and if Ridley is not in Smash 4, they should definitely make him for Project M).

What do you guys think?

Any list of potential characters that has Dixie on it automatically wins me over. =)

 

[Xinc]

Ridley use charizard model.
Lyn use Marth model.
Issac use link model?
Krystal use fox model
Saki use also links model?
Dixie use diddy model
Waluigi use Luigi model
King k Rool use d3 model?
Dark Samus use Samus model

Lyn can use a bow as well, so I'm not sure if Lyn could keep Marth's model but use Link's bows... I remember there being a Lyn model ad a Marth model.

 

[F. Blue]

Perhaps the filesize restrictions for Pokemon Trainer/Samus could be circumvented using the clone engine. It would also fix those characters colors when on the same team.

 

[Xenozoa425]

I honestly don't think that they should add anymore characters. Brawl's already massive roster, with PT's 3 Pokemon separated + Roy + Mewtwo is already a great achievement in itself.

But should a third Clone Engine character be added, I feel it would have to be a Metroid character; Ridley or Dark Samus. Both serve an antagonistic role and have potential to become great and unique characters, and already have more than suitable donors for movesets and animations. Ridley can borrow from Charizard while Dark Samus can use Samus, Lucas, and Wolf as a base.

It's a shame that my, as well as countless other people's, favorite Nintendo series got pretty much ignored for its 25th anniversary... by the company that made it, and I hope that the PMBR will consider adding Ridley or Dark Samus, not just for the sake of adding a new or unique character or to please fans and players, but to give the Metroid series a chance to be what I feel it should have been in Brawl, what it so rightfully deserves after all these years.

 

[MLGF]

Not gonna lie, this video makes Waluigi kinda interesting to implement

 

[ChronoBound]

I would rather have Knuckles than Waluigi. At least Knuckles has been a main character before as opposed to roster filler. Still not keen on adding more third-party characters though.

 

[MLGF]

I really don't like the idea of adding any more third party.
IF they do, I feel all the push this hack had in professionalism will go down the drain.

 

[trojanpooh]

I still say Pichu needs to be playable again. If they can make Mewtwo viable it should be a cakewalk to make Pichu viable too. He already had the workings of a great character in place. The only thing that kept him from being better than Pikachu was his weight and his self damage gimmick. Concerning the damage mechanic the way I see it the PMBR would have two options for the approach:

1) Remove the mechanic.
2) Leave the mechanic but buff the hell out of all the moves that damage him making Pichu a super compelling risk/reward character. These could include combo, kill, gimp, etc moves that worked especially well but left Pichu at a higher percent.

What many people don't realize is that Pichu is fairly capable if the player simply avoids the moves that damage him. It makes for an interesting character, but I think it'd make him even more interesting if the player was encouraged to use those attacks. It may be a good idea to tone down the quantity of attacks that inflict damage to yourself though, just to make him a bit less formulaic whilst avoiding hurting himself.

 

[ChronoBound]

Pichu's whole gimmick was being trash. Sakurai even admitted it.

I think most people outside the Melee set will be angry that Pichu got back in, yet Dr. Mario and Young Link did not (though Toon Link already fills Young Link's niche).

 

[AnOkayDM]

I don't understand why people want Pichu back. He was garbage, and a joke character. And seriously, we don't need anymore Pokémon. -_- Besides, notice that he was the one Melee character who was not intended to return.

There are other series that deserve new characters first, and there are other characters who should have been in by now.

 

[trojanpooh]

Pichu's whole gimmick was being trash. Sakurai even admitted it.

I think most people outside the Melee set will be angry that Pichu got back in, yet Dr. Mario and Young Link did not (though Toon Link already fills Young Link's niche).

Sakurai also admitted to Melee's depth being an accident. We should probably stop modding Brawl to have depth. And no, Toon Link really doesn't fill the Young Link niche. He plays more like Link 64 than Young Link. A buddy of mine who used to main Young Link hates Toon and Toon is my main in PM despite Young Link being unplayable to me in Melee. They are two completely separate entities and I'd also support his return (though, as mentioned, I hate playing as him so I'm not going to push for it like I do characters I actually enjoy)

I don't understand why people want Pichu back. He was garbage, and a joke character. And seriously, we don't need anymore Pokémon. -_- Besides, notice that he was the one Melee character who was not intended to return.

There are other series that deserve new characters first, and there are other characters who should have been in by now.

Mewtwo was garbage, I don't see what your point is. If you put some work into Pichu he had an extremely unique playstyle that could be quite intimidating. True, he wasn't very good, but he has the potential to be something special, or at least as special as a clone can be (which, as Ganondorf and Falco prove, is pretty darn special)

 

[ChronoBound]

I think the Project M team had it right on how to handle the Fallen Five (bring back Mewtwo and Roy, incorporate the best aspects of Dr. Mario and Young Link into Mario and Toon Link, make Dr. Mario a costume).

I think they should incorporate some of Pichu's aspects (like the extra speed and maybe the extra power for some of his moves) into Pikachu.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Sakurai also admitted to Melee's depth being an accident. We should probably stop modding Brawl to have depth. And no, Toon Link really doesn't fill the Young Link niche. He plays more like Link 64 than Young Link. A buddy of mine who used to main Young Link hates Toon and Toon is my main in PM despite Young Link being unplayable to me in Melee. They are two completely separate entities and I'd also support his return (though, as mentioned, I hate playing as him so I'm not going to push for it like I do characters I actually enjoy)

As a main of both, he kinda fills the exact same role. He's just better at it than Young Link was, with more versatility. Nevertheless, he's still a fast Link with an emphasis on projectiles.

Mewtwo was garbage, I don't see what your point is. If you put some work into Pichu he had an extremely unique playstyle that could be quite intimidating. True, he wasn't very good, but he has the potential to be something special, or at least as special as a clone can be (which, as Ganondorf and Falco prove, is pretty darn special)

Mewtwo was at least unique in concept, and wasn't intended as a joke. The "glass cannon" playstyle could easily be given to a new character without padding the roster with yet another Pokémon.

Don't compare Ganon (a very slow but very strong clone of the fastest character before Sonic) and Falco (a clone superior in every way, preferred by most) to Pichu, a crappy joke clone.

Hell, when Dr. Mario, the clone most like his predecessor, was going to return but Pichu wasn't, I see no reason why a slot should be wasted on him. Especially when series such as DK and Metroid are sorely lacking representation and Pokémon has seven characters. Seven. That's more than any other franchise already, and you want to bump it up to eight?

EDIT: Oops, I can count.

 

[ChronoBound]

Hell, when Dr. Mario, the clone most like his predecessor, was going to return but Pichu wasn't, I see no reason why a slot should be wasted on him. Especially when series such as DK and Metroid are sorely lacking representation and Pokémon has six characters. Six. That's more than any other franchise already, and you want to bump it up to seven?

Yeah, that Dr. Mario was planned to return for Brawl and Pichu wasn't really says something.

I also agree that Pokemon already has plenty of characters on the rosters (SEVEN), and that Metroid and DK (hopefully Ridley and Dixie Kong) need an extra slot.

 

[trojanpooh]

Mewtwo was at least unique in concept, and wasn't intended as a joke. The "glass cannon" playstyle could easily be given to a new character without padding the roster with yet another Pokémon.

Don't compare Ganon (a very slow but very strong clone of the fastest character before Sonic) and Falco (a clone superior in every way, preferred by most) to Pichu, a crappy joke clone.

Hell, when Dr. Mario, the clone most like his predecessor, was going to return but Pichu wasn't, I see no reason why a slot should be wasted on him. Especially when series such as DK and Metroid are sorely lacking representation and Pokémon has seven characters. Seven. That's more than any other franchise already, and you want to bump it up to eight?

EDIT: Oops, I can count.

What was intended and what wasn't isn't a good argument when we're talking about a hack meant to change the things that Sakurai intended Brawl to be. If you're going to use that argument you may as well go all the way and say that in the end Roy and Mewtwo weren't in Brawl so I guess we should leave them out. Whether you want to admit it or not Pichu does bring something unique to the table and he does have potential to be a good character. Add to the fact that he's a clone and has a base in Melee it means he'd be easier to implement than a new character entirely. Mewtwo took over 700 hours to made and that was based on his template from Melee. How long do you think it'd take them to make someone entirely new? Easily double that if everything is being done from scratch. Odds are most of the "new" characters they choose to add will be clones of old characters as is. They may as well add back in the final unique character from Melee. I understand why so many people have so much skepticism. But as someone who picked up Pichu midway through my career in Melee I can safely say that he has huge potential were he balanced properly and could easily become a fan favorite if he was viable.

(Plus he was teased at in the April Fools trailer and it'd be just cruel to his fans to hint at his return and then add 7 new character none of which are him)

 

[HyperrCrow]

Guys, we need to consider the announcer calls and sfx. I think Chronos earlier list was a good place to start from as legit announcer calls are provided for a lot of his suggested characters and some characters, like Ridley for example, have a good amount of sfx already in game.

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

So how about these for the five newcomers in Project M:
- Isaac
- Dixie Kong
- Lyn
- Sami/Andy/Knuckles/Black Shadow & de-cloned Ganondorf/ Bowser Jr. (not really sure here)
- Ridley (as I said before there should definitely be a Metroid newcomer in Project M, and if Ridley is not in Smash 4, they should definitely make him for Project M).

What do you guys think?

Issac: Two thumbs up. I'm all for it!

Dixie: Could be interesting. DKC2 is one of the greatest platformers ever made.

Lyn: Also, could be interesting. I'd be curious to see how they switch her up so that she can stand out from Marth and Link, considering that she can use bows and all.

Ridley: A must have. Size issues never stopped Kirby, Bowser, or Olimar.

Sami/Andy: Abstain-- I haven't played enough Advance Wars to be able to give an informed opinion on these two.

Knuckles: Awesome, but I think we're good on third party representatives.

Bowser Jr: Could be interesting if they incorporate the paintbrush into his moveset. Not really sure how much he honestly deserves it-- especially consdering that the biggest icons of the series who were in all of the best of the classic games are already represented (Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Wario, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Diddy).

Spoiler

On a more unrelated note, I think Sunshine, while not bad, could have been a lot better. It needed more levels, more (and tougher enemies), a worthier Yoshi (that doesn't melt in water), and refined controls (I thought the swimming controls were kind of funky, and I miss punching, kicking, long jumping, crouching, etc).
I also kind of wish Bowser and his son had never been in the game and we had gotten a totally new villain, just to have a little break from the beat Bowser/save peach formula for once. But I digress.

Black Shadow: Cool, but I think Samurai Goroh is the better choice due to being a more prominent character who's appeared in ALL of the games. He doesn't even need to use his sword. Just have him clearly have a sword on him that he never uses, just as Falcon never uses his gun.

We'll probably have to agree to disagree that the PMBR could do a great job of rescuing Pichu from the pits of mediocrity and utter worthlessness in the eyes of the fans, but besides that, these are good picks. (not to sound like a broken record, haha)
I'm also loving the Tingle suggestion-- can't believe I never thought of that! That would be hilarious. I'm going to feel sorry for the poor smasher that has to john over losing to Tingle

 

[yogurtgun1245]

Guys, we need to consider the announcer calls and sfx. I think Chronos earlier list was a good place to start from as legit announcer calls are provided for a lot of his suggested characters and some characters, like Ridley for example, have a good amount of sfx already in game.

Wasn't there talk at one point in time that the PMBR could get in contact with the Brawl announcer to record more voices and/or have someone imitate his voice? I read that in some topic either here or on SmashMods that someone had a connection to him.

 

[Friesnchip]

(Plus he was teased at in the April Fools trailer and it'd be just cruel to his fans to hint at his return and then add 7 new character none of which are him)

I'm a bit indifferent to adding Pichu, but I have a gut feeling that he will return.

...it might be kinda nice to have a character designed primarily on risk/reward through self-inflicted damage, though.