Clone Engine Misc. Discussion Thread

[trojanpooh]

People saying Young Link should return seem to lack the knowledge of what the PMBR is doing with Dr. Mario?
Pichu isn't exactly the same case, and I actually like his playstyle compared to Pika in Melee (Regarding the self-inflicting moves he has)

Although I don't like the thought of another Zelda/Pokeman taking up the CSS.
I'm sure any character the PMBR decides to add next will surprise us all and will be taken care of with a balanced mindset to be executed carefully.

I'd ask you the same thing. Young Link and Toon Link are clearly incompatible as far as the alt costume engine goes. Their proportions aren't even close to similar.

 

[Friesnchip]

Otherwise, I'd just support every single character on my sig, lol (which btw sometimes it randomly shows up, other times it doesn't).

Sigs only show up once per page per person, I'm assuming to cut down on the length of pages.

 

[Anti Guy]

Here's my take on the last 5 slots:

Overwhelmingly positive (in order of popularity):
-Ridley (or Dark Samus as backup)
-Isaac
-Black Shadow & Ganondorf
-Skapon

Mixed support (somewhat controversial. 40-60% support)
-Dixie Kong
-Lyn
-Andy or Sami
-Krystal

Unforable support (highly controversial)
-Pichu
-Any Sonic character

Any combination might work, but I'm personally against any Pokemon or Fire Emblem characters on the basis that we already have 2/7 slots going for those two.

 

[NisforSmash]

You don't need to evolve Pichu. Your argument against Pichu is just as flimsy as mine against Pikachu.

Not gonna argue with that.

I've tried Pikachu, know what? I don't like how he plays. Imagine if Falco was cut, would you tell a fan to just play as Fox? No, because they're totally different characters and don't play the same despite sharing moves. And again, this is a crossover game, the main series canons don't mean anything.

Yes but fox and falco's differences are more than Pikachu and pichu's differences. yes you can't mesh either of the two but pichu isn't representing anything that Pikachu can't. falco is however the backup to fox so it made sense to add him in. pichu isn't as iconic to the series as Pikachu is. yes you say the series doesn't matter but you wouldn't represent the Mario series with a goomba. the character has to be at least a little significant in their series to even be considered. pichu isn't too significant compared to Pikachu and the other pokemon.

That's like saying a random baby will one day become essentially Abraham Lincoln. Just because they're the same species doesn't mean they're the same. Link and Toon Link are the same chosen hero but at different points in history. The may be different people but they have the same destiny. That's more similar than a random Pikachu and a random Pichu.

i'm gonna shorten this and prevent further argument. I hear what you're saying and if I had to choose between pichu or 4 poorly created newcomers i'd choose pichu. I agree that he is different from Pikachu but I think he's on a fine line where he is slightly different but not different enough to warrant another slot. I don't think they'll be able to just make him a costume so my thinking is that it's just best if he's not in. I wasn't trying to personally attack you, I just wanted to lighten things up with a friendly kick to the nuts, as odd as that is.

I'll state how I feel in one sentence and you can tell me whether you agree or disagree or whatever or you don't even have to reply.

The PMBR should hold off on adding pichu until the number of possible newcomers becomes low enough to where pichu's entrance wouldn't hinder anyone elses. At this point I think specifically for the PMBR there is more discussions to be had and decisions to be made regarding the addition of 5 characters. I think they should complete pichu and have him on standby but strive to bring in 5 newcomers if possible. if they can only do 3 or 4 then they should add pichu.

 

[AnOkayDM]

The PMBR should hold off on adding pichu until the number of possible newcomers becomes low enough to where pichu's entrance wouldn't hinder anyone elses. At this point I think specifically for the PMBR there is more discussions to be had and decisions to be made regarding the addition of 5 characters. I think they should complete pichu and have him on standby but strive to bring in 5 newcomers if possible. if they can only do 3 or 4 then they should add pichu.

This is essentially how I feel. Although it seems weird to finish the guy and not release him...if they're going to go through the trouble of creating him now, then yeah, they should put him in. But if they're on the ropes, I'd say other characters deserve to go before him.

 

[NisforSmash]

This is essentially how I feel. Although it seems weird to finish the guy and not release him...if they're going to go through the trouble of creating him now, then yeah, they should put him in. But if they're on the ropes, I'd say other characters deserve to go before him.

Definitely. The whole community is split between whether pichu should be in or out. it's turning into the spacies argument all over again.

 

[trojanpooh]

I'd agree with you on a lot of those points were this an actual release of Smash Bros, but it's not. It's a mod with the intent of taking Brawl and making it into the sequel that Melee deserved. In that regard I feel like all the Melee characters should return if nothing else simply on principal. Dr Mario and Mario were fused together and the Doc is a costume now. That's all well and good because Doc was always just a better Mario. Young Link "got cut" but I think we all know that Toon Link could just as easily be named Young Link and no one would argue. The rest of the cast returned with the exception of Pichu which just seems silly, especially if we're talking about adding all new characters. Pichu does add a unique twist on Pikachu's playstyle and would be easier to implement than a whole new character.

Pikachu and Pichu really really aren't as similar as you make them out to be. I can only assume that you haven't put very much time into playing as him (understandable as he's not very good) because he and Pikachu are very unique. If not as unique as Fox vs Falco then they're damn close. I understand your stance, since naturally brand new characters are going to generate more hype than an old one that doesn't have a huge following, but Pichu does have a following that'd appreciate it, and untapped potential just waiting to be used to generate a new fanbase. Part of the entire point of Project M was to take the under appreciated mass of the roster and make them competitively viable and Pichu is just begging to be brought up to speed. Were we talking the Smash 4 roster I'd agree that other characters should take priority, but this isn't Smash 4, it's Melee 2.

 

[NisforSmash]

Well with that being said if they were to implement pichu, i'd like to see them add charge beam to him somehow. it might be interesting if they made it work with his self damaging.

 

[HyperrCrow]

Well with that being said if they were to implement pichu, i'd like to see them add charge beam to him somehow. it might be interesting if they made it work with his self damaging.

Final Smash yo

 

[Trinsic]

Pichu has really become quite the hot topic, hasn't he?

To the argument that there are better characters in the Nintendo library to pick from than Pichu, I would say the same could be said about Jigglypuff. She was pretty much the second mascot for the series in the Red and Blue days, but has lost pretty much all relevance to the Pokemon franchise, these days she's just another of the 600+ critters. And if she hadn't been in any previous Smash games, I don't think too many people would be arguing in her favor as someone who should take up one of the character slots.

But Jigglypuff has been in the Smash games, and enough people like her FOR HER PLAYSTYLE that the idea of getting rid of her would be regarded as heresy on these boards. Pichu was in Melee, and it's a safe assumption that people didn't get attached to him because of his complex and fascinating personality, but because of his PLAYSTYLE. Presence in past Smash games, while not automatically enough to make someone a valid choice for P:M, is something that gives characters some degree of precedence when thinking about who should be included.

Pichu added a niche gameplay style that hasn't been able to be filled by any other character. I believe this is the most important thing to consider in regards to all this. No, Pikachu doesn't even come close, and that's fine, because Pikachu is Pikachu.

I feel I should clarify what I mean by gameplay style. I'm not strictly talking about the self-inflicting damage thing, though that is undeniably a part of his identity. What I'm talking about is the way the character FEELS to play as, the brand of momentum specific to that character. The tactile sense of movement. To me, that's a bigger part of Pichu than even his self-inflicting damage, and is what makes him fun to play as. I can only assume it's the same for other people who want him back.

There are plenty of arguments against him besides this, some very valid ones, but I don't want to sit here writing too long of a post. I just wanted to get this out there because it seems like there are some who don't understand WHY people want Pichu back, and I wanted to explain the reasoning.

On another note, if an Advance Wars character is included I'd prefer if it was one of the grunt soldiers instead of any of the commanders.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

So I was thinking Ridley could actually be a good choice for the PMBR because he could easily be based off of and be a semi clone of Charizard. Most of Charizards move set works well for Ridley. Of course some changes would be nice, but I think they'd be very doable (mainly projectile/article stuff)

The same thing goes for Dark Samus.

However, the main thing i'm hoping for though is Black Shadow and Ganondorf!
PLEASEEE MAKE IT HAPPAN!!! :D

 

[HyperrCrow]

So I was thinking Ridley could actually be a good choice for the PMBR because he could easily be based off of and be a semi clone of Charizard. Most of Charizards move set works well for Ridley. Of course some changes would be nice, but I think they'd be very doable (mainly projectile/article stuff

He could use Charizard as a base and borrow Metaknights run animation, that'd be pretty neat.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

Pichu is just hard to put my thoughts upon, adding him would be so right, but more pokemon feels so wrong.
My tops remain Hector, a new Metroid rep (haven't played metroid, I just think it's popularity with you good people warrants some priority), Dixie (Bcuz Project M floating became cool with Mewtwo), and moar Hector. AAAAAAXXXXXXEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for characters that I can only dream of, due to legal restraint or the fact that their implementation could surpass the already strenuous amount of time as Roy or Mewtwo, here's the list. Some, like Issac, don't seem totally helpless or unsmashlike, but seem like they contain technical troubles that may need some working around.

#1 Phoenix Wright
#2 The Avatar (FE Awakening)
#3 Megaman
#4 My Coffeemaker
#6 Eliwood (No Reason, just wanted to make you folks think of him as the perfect Roy Alt.)(Attire only)
#7 My Foyer Lamp
#8 Phoenix Wright........

 

[Friesnchip]

As for characters that I can only dream of, due to legal restraint or the fact that their implementation could surpass the already strenuous amount of time as Roy or Mewtwo, here's the list. Some, like Issac, don't seem totally helpless or unsmashlike, but seem like they contain technical troubles that may need some working around.

#7 My Foyer Lamp

Yo, Foyer Lamp is too small for Smash, I'm gonna have to argue with you for the next three forum pages about that. Plus way too OP.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Yo, Foyer Lamp is too small for Smash, I'm gonna have to argue with you for the next three forum pages about that. Plus way too OP.

NO WAY WHAT ABOUT OLIMAR YO

 

[Friesnchip]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rXFrLz4OeI

POKEMON TRAINER CONFIRMED FOR NEW CHARACTER.

 

[HyperrCrow]

You're all wrong. The remaining five slots are this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rXFrLz4OeI


POKEMON TRAINER CONFIRMED FOR NEW CHARACTER.

Hype all day son.
......
I'm starting to think the PMBR has all their slots planned out already lol

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

The latest turbo Tuesday revealed that the Clone Engine and the Alt. Engine can be used together (although we all probably already guessed that). It also revealed that (along with turbo singleplayer and peach`s castle) Project M might be trying to troll us again with a Pokemon Trainer costume/character

 

[Friesnchip]

Call me crazy, but I think that's just Snake in a PT skin

Yeah, his off-stage KO is the same animation as Snake's, so it makes sense.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

I was hoping Mewtwo`s alt was going to be a version of him with a tail longer then the screen, oh wait, his tail already is longer then the screen.

 

[HyperrCrow]

Yeah, his off-stage KO is the same animation as Snake's, so it makes sense.

I was just basing it off the standing animation, too Snakey.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

That's like saying a random baby will one day become essentially Abraham Lincoln. Just because they're the same species doesn't mean they're the same. Link and Toon Link are the same chosen hero but at different points in history. The may be different people but they have the same destiny. That's more similar than a random Pikachu and a random Pichu.

There's much less of a difference between the same evolutionary line of electric rats and two separate characters from different dimensions that happen to share the spirit and name of a legendary hero.

I don't disagree with you that Pichu and Pikachu play completely differently, though based upon Pokemon purely, Pichu is absolutely worthless as a fighter when compared to a Pikachu. I'm not against Pichu based upon it's melee moveset, purely the over-emphasis of Pokemon already in the game. If they had to add another Pokemon, I'd prefer to see a non-baby.

 

[GaretHax]

Would be cool if advanced wars finally got some love and rep, also mewtwo looks pretty sick.

 

[red9rd]

Now that I think about it you know who would be badass for one of the Character slots?
Primid

He would be the first playable character to originate from Super smash bros. and cant a lot of his animations from game be used?

 

[ChronoBound]

Here's my take on the last 5 slots:
Overwhelmingly positive (in order of popularity):
-Black Shadow & Ganondorf
-Skapon

Mixed support (somewhat controversial. 40-60% support)
-Dixie Kong
.

I would switch these around. About the worst thing I have heard anyone say about Dixie Kong is that she might end up playable in Smash 4, while there have been plenty of people complaining not to replace Captain Ganondorf.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Now that I think about it you know who would be badass for one of the Character slots?
Primid

He would be the first playable character to originate from Super smash bros. and cant a lot of his animations from game be used?

I think I'd put Tabuu before this guy..

 

[batistabus]

Here's what I would like from the clone engine.

1. NO 3rd party characters.
2. Someone from a franchise not yet represented in a playable way.
3...that's it.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Oh another thought I just had regarding ganondorf...

How about Demise?
He could be clone - ish but also changed a great deal.

EDIT: Wait I forgot, demise doesn't show up in brawl in any way. Never mind my bad!

 

[Solbliminal]

Now that I think about it you know who would be badass for one of the Character slots?
Primid
He would be the first playable character to originate from Super smash bros. and cant a lot of his animations from game be used?

I actually suggested that a couple pages back. I think his play-style should be a combination of all the primid types (except Giant Primid of course). Maybe even a hybrid clone character. I can see him being a very nice blend of Mario, Link, and Fox.

 

[red9rd]

I actually suggested that a couple pages back. I think his play-style should be a combination of all the primid types (except Giant Primid of course). Maybe even a hybrid clone character. I can see him being a very nice blend of Mario, Link, and Fox.

Yes Yes and sorry for missing your post.

 

[ChronoBound]

Would be cool if advanced wars finally got some love and rep, also mewtwo looks pretty sick.

Yeah. Famicom Wars is one of Nintendo's longest running series (started all the way back in 1988), yet still lacks any significant content in Smash Bros.

Here's what I would like from the clone engine.

1. NO 3rd party characters.
2. Someone from a franchise not yet represented in a playable way.
3...that's it.

Agree on both of those. Personally, I am rooting for Isaac and an Advance Wars character.

 

[Solbliminal]

Yes Yes and sorry for missing your post.

No problem. I'm glad to see I'm not alone in wanting Primid.

@BronzeGreekGod I generally find Primid to be more worth the effort than Tabuu. His importance served greater purpose than the whole few cutscenes we see Tabuu. Primid can be a very easy character to compose animations for since they already exist. On top of that, he can very easily cut the time it takes to make him by barrowing animations / tweaking existing animations.

 

[red9rd]

No problem. I'm glad to see I'm not alone in wanting Primid.

@BronzeGreekGod I generally find Primid to be more worth the effort than Tabuu. His importance served greater purpose than the whole few cutscenes we see Tabuu. Primid can be a very easy character to compose animations for since they already exist. On top of that, he can very easily cut the time it takes to make him by barrowing animations / tweaking existing animations.

And with Primid, they could be more creative if they wanted to.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Just saw TURBO TUESDAY: Mewtwo.

Two things I must say.

1.- If you didn't get excited at Mewtwo + Roy destroying Fox and Falco, you have no soul. XD

2.- ... You canNOT do this to me, PMBR.

Don't show these things to me if you guys don't really mean it, or you're gonna break my heart. T_T
Especially if Pichu, the April Fool's joke, makes it in, over this NON-joke video.

I'm going to take this small clip with 10 buckets of salt, and assume this was just to laugh at Red failing hard to capturing Mewtwo. :,)

 

[HyperrCrow]

I'm going to take this small clip with 10 buckets of salt, and assume this was just to laugh at Red failing hard to capturing Mewtwo. :,)

You can also assume that it's Snake

 

[Shadic]

No Pokemon Trailer. He's just over Snake. Look at his wait pose, and the screen in the background that says "Snake."

 

[shinhed-echi]

Well I guess it's better to have your dream shattered as soon as it comes up, than endlessly hoping it happens.

 

[ChronoBound]

Well I guess it's better to have your dreams shattered as soon as it comes up, than endlessly hoping it happens.

Yet one more page Sakurai needs to take from Project M.

 

[Rikana]

Look at the shadow as well.

 

[210stuna]

I'd ask you the same thing. Young Link and Toon Link are clearly incompatible as far as the alt costume engine goes. Their proportions aren't even close to similar.

Are you talking about their apparent size, or their animations, hit boxes, etc?
If it's the latter, look at Doc. You honestly think they'll make a possible Young Link smaller than Toon Link to better represent his Melee counterpart like they did with making Bowser larger?