Charizard Tactical Discussion

[Buuda]

._. i don't know what to make of that

but the only way flamethrower does 30% is if your opponent fails hard at SDI

A) Heavyweights
B) Large Characters
C) Most people fail at SDI XDDDDDD lolololol.

Well, honestly, a lot of people don't really know what to do with Flamethrower, from what I've seen. It depends on the character. Some can SDI in really well and interrupt the flamethrower with a n-air or some bs, and some SDI out really well and get r4p3d if they try to DI in. So a lot of people don't really know which way to go, and often have to switch if they SDI in before realizing it won't work with the character he/she is using. In which case you get like, 30 damages. lulz. I mean, yeah, it's super uncommon to get THAT much off of a flamethrower, but not unheard of. XP

 

[T-block]

Nah man... anybody who even knows what SDI is can get out of Flamethrower with any character and take less than 10%.

 

[Zigsta]

Buuda, if you're playing people who take over 30% from Flamethrower, you're not playing good players. Hate to be blunt, but that's the truth. Due to Flamethrower's tiny size, it's incredibly easy to SDI.

 

[Kith]

The only times i ever get so much damage from flamethrower is when im playing friendlies. in tournament, no one is going to risk trying to go through flamethrower. What im saying is...it works in friendlies lol

 

[Buuda]

Buuda, if you're playing people who take over 30% from Flamethrower, you're not playing good players. Hate to be blunt, but that's the truth. Due to Flamethrower's tiny size, it's incredibly easy to SDI.

It was an exaggeration DX

And I do play some crummy players at local tourneys. lol

 

[humble]

It was an exaggeration DX

And I do play some crummy players at local tourneys. lol

When I play bad people with zard, I pretend I'm limited to one move, and rocksmash like I desperately need immediate brain trauma.

Spoiler

I win that way. Rocksmash2gud.

 

[Buuda]

When I play bad people with zard, I pretend I'm limited to one move, and rocksmash like I desperately need immediate brain trauma.

Spoiler

I win that way. Rocksmash2gud.

...

..............................

Wouldn't you... have brain trauma? And therefore.... need surgeriez? I have never heard of anyone needing brain trauma.

 

[CoonTail]

So after my last tourny I have to say Wave-Bouncing Rock-smash really is an awesome mix-up straight up. The fragments do cover your hurtbox and I gave the 40+% Rock-smashs to people through wavebouncing them as people attempted to rush in with attacks.......Start trying this guys while it's still hot

 

[humble]

I love run off ledge/platform then jump wavebounce those *******s trying to stalk me. Works well with flamethrower too.

Was messing around, I was zard, recovering low, they jump out to spike me, I use fly and grab ledge, they are beneath stage lip. I drop and nair to stage spike, they tech it, then I use fly again and land the last hit to stagespike them. I love fly KOs.

EDIT: Does anyone intentionally spike with bair? I rarely see it, but it seems like it'd be useful.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

So after my last tourny I have to say Wave-Bouncing Rock-smash really is an awesome mix-up straight up. The fragments do cover your hurtbox and I gave the 40+% Rock-smashs to people through wavebouncing them as people attempted to rush in with attacks.......Start trying this guys while it's still hot

Wavebouncing is so legit, we all need to make it a staple trick/thing in our arsenal.

EDIT: Does anyone intentionally spike with bair? I rarely see it, but it seems like it'd be useful.

It is too inconsistent to rely on it. And the spike knockback is extremely weak.

 

[CoonTail]

Wavebouncing is so legit, we all need to make it a staple trick/thing in our arsenal.

Yea Miles we really do.....it makes razor leaf perfect blade about 7 out of 10 times., along with making flamethrower while retreating a much more effective way of getting more damage out of flamethrower.

Rocksmash just becomes straight more effective when wavebouncing a wavebounced RS counter is almost always prone to deal close to max 45% damage since the wavebounce has the counter go off then momentum continues to push the hitboxes towards your opponents.

PT gains alot more move effectiveness from wavebouncing

 

[Buuda]

Wavebouncing is so legit, we all need to make it a staple trick/thing in our arsenal.



It is too inconsistent to rely on it. And the spike knockback is extremely weak.

Yeah, I'd agree on the wavebouncing. I do it all the time and it's *******ing incredible. And yeah, b-air can be fun to try to spike with in friendlies, but it really is quite weak and not reliable. Go for the d-air if you can. I recently realized how HOLY S***H4X the hitbox is. Like, SOOOO far underneath Zard's feet. Given, it can still be kinda hard to land since it has no horizontal hitbox whatsoever, but still good, imo.

 

[Zigsta]

Charizard's dair is called Beast Dair for a reason.

 

[CoonTail]

Charizard's dair is called Beast Dair for a reason.

THAT WAS THE NICKNAME......after the last tourny I went to I struggled to remember the D-air's nickname but thanks zigsta god I love the beast-air with such a passion

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Zards dair hits pretty far behind hiim too.

 

[humble]

Does anyone use zards up-B starting invicibility frames to tank hits And punish them w/ it? If you read your opponent and timed it, seems like it'd be effective, if situational.

 

[T-block]

i did it against ganondorf in my trailer

it's fun, but it's so easy to escape the final hit of zard's fly that it'll never be a safe thing to do =(

 

[Zigsta]

Pretty much the only time I mash up B with Charizard is when I'm being hit by a multihit move, but people don't use multihit moves much for that reason.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I think that its good humble.

I have done some funny things with it.


Just dont challenge Ganon's dair lmao.

 

[T-block]

buddy

ganon's d-air is nothing - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqnkP4EWcok#t=0m18s

^_^

 

[CoonTail]

Hahaha miles just got owned......cmon miles you saw the trailer too

 

[MaTA]

Yeah i use his Up-B all the time...It's great ending matches at high percent and catching people off guard.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

rapeeeeeee

 

[CHOMPY]

Charizard's Fair, Bair, Dair, Utilt, Dtilt, Grab, Usmash, Rock Smash, Flamethrower, and Fly are all too good to handle!

 

[Buuda]

(Already posted on Squirtle Tactical, but thought it may be more fitting here)
Okay, speaking of janky b-momentum, I (think) I discovered something balls-to-the-walls incredible. Soo, I stumbled across a way to get b-momentum (like a wavebounce) with Neutral B without actually being turned around and b-reversing. And no, I'm not b-sticking. Anyhow, I did this at Don't Blink with Charizard, and here's how it goes (it's INCREDIBLE with flamethrower):

So, all you do is jump back lightly, not enough to turn around, and then press B followed by forward on the thumbstick, and if you time it right, you get amazing b-momentum forward that can leave the opponent stuck in the nasty part of Flamethrower because they thought you were retreating and SH backwards with Zard is really vulnerable. So when they try to exploit it, all of a sudden, you whip forward inexplicably with a good flamethrower, and I noticed the same works with a few other characters. I haven't done a whole lot of testing on it, but I was talking to some people (Arty, and some others I can't remember, lol) and they all said they'd never seen it, and I think this technique is probably applicable to all characters. It's seriously REALLY good. Like, if you're right at the edge (facing away from it) and you short hop lightly back, the opponent rushes you, and like stated earlier, you melt his/her face off with a sexy flamethrower if you have good spacing and timing. I wish I could upload a vid, but idk if I actually did it in any matches that got saved. Anyone wanna do this?

So, again:

SH back w/o turning
B-->Forward on Thumbstick
Commence winning.

Someone tell me if this is already known. If it is, I gain official scrub status. Lol. But I did talk to a bunch of people and they said they'd never seen it. It makes such sexy mindgames! :D

New AT?

 

[stingers]

i've seen it. i think it's just another application of wavebouncing. it's cool though.

 

[Zigsta]

Yeah, just another way to wavebounce.

 

[T-block]

Oh I didn't see this here too lol

Apparently you guys have seen this before - are there vids up anywhere then?

 

[Zigsta]

I don't think there are videos, but that's how I've always wavebounced.

 

[T-block]

ah eff i misread it

i thought he was just shorthopping forward normally, then suddenly boosting forward with neutral-b >_<

 

[Buuda]

No, it's the tiniest SH back, then the B-momentum. I've never seen it before, except when I've done it. :3

 

[Katakiri]

Okay, I gotta say, we are not abusing Charizard's ledge game nearly enough.

Here's what we have:
- Multiple Jumps
- The ability to change directions in mid-air
- The ability to alternate F-Air and B-Air when dropping from the ledge (-> Jump -> + C-stick <- for ledge-hopped B-Air)
- Super Armor on Up-B
- An Up-B with a huge ledge sweet-spot
- and a Selfdestructing Geodude

Like seriously. Zard easily has the 3rd best non-projectile ledge stall in the game. Ledge-hopped B-Airs & F-Airs cover a respectable distance near the edge.
And if Zard doesn't attack, it's near impossible to punish Charizard on the ledge. His invincibility frames still cover him after he dropped from the ledge all the way into his Up-B start-up.
On top of that, nothing can spike Zard out of Up-B, or will have enough time to even damage him since there's about 10 frames of vulnerability from when the invincibility frames run out to the time he grabs the ledge. And those 10 frames have Up-B's super armor.


Now, how you use his ledge-stall with the ledge-grab limits still around is totally up to you.
Biding time until Squirtle's fatigue is completely gone? Go for it.
Edge-hogging like a boss? Hell yea.
Stock tanking for the Anubis-strat with Lucario in dubz? ****.

Eh w/e. One of us will eventually find a good use for it. But just sayin', keep it in mind.

 

[Steeler]

i have always really really liked bair/b reverse rock smash off the ledge.

 

[T-block]

I don't have the facts to back it up, but I'm pretty sure Charizard is actually very vulnerable when he's on the edge. That said, ledgehop b-air is really cool. I've also been using ledgejump > jump > Flamethrower to return.

 

[Zigsta]

I hate hate hate Charizard on the ledge. Fly's landing lag is a pain. :/

 

[Kemious]

Charizard is very iffy on the ledge. Against people that will rush you I say that his ledge game is awesome. However against the more defensive characters he's just a oversized target thats just waiting for a beating if he tries to mess with u on the edge.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I hate hate hate Charizard on the ledge. Fly's landing lag is a pain. :/

So just glide to the edge, every single time.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

Just want to say Charizard's Nair is awesome and beats Falco's SideB when it isn't invincible.

<3 Charizard's Nair.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

What the F where have I been?!!

Falco's Side B has invincibility now?

 

[Steeler]

if it does, it's only on startup.